Forwarded from comp.unix.shell, given that many people here were
replacing the Mageia-supplied cdrkit (Wodim) package with Schily's
original (and much better) cdrtools...

Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> Jörg Schilling, aka "schily", has died from cancer.
>
> For those who can read German:
> https://twitter.com/FUZxxl/status/1447319844295254020
> https://www.heise.de/news/Nachruf-Open-Source-Welt-trauert-um-Joerg-Schilling-6214446.html

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On 13/10/21 02:36, Aragorn wrote:
> Forwarded from comp.unix.shell, given that many people here were
> replacing the Mageia-supplied cdrkit (Wodim) package with Schily's
> original (and much better) cdrtools...
>
> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
>> Jörg Schilling, aka "schily", has died from cancer.
>>
>> For those who can read German:
>> https://twitter.com/FUZxxl/status/1447319844295254020
>> https://www.heise.de/news/Nachruf-Open-Source-Welt-trauert-um-Joerg-Schilling-6214446.html
>
>

I never did get around to installing it.
And now CD/DVD are deprecating.

Are all the Linux users "getting on" Are we all ancient?

--
faeychild
Running plasmashell 5.20.4 on 5.10.70-desktop-1.mga8 kernel.
Mageia release 8 (Official) for x86_64 installed via Mageia-8-x86_64-DVD.iso

On 10/12/21 14:00, faeychild wrote:
> On 13/10/21 02:36, Aragorn wrote:
>> Forwarded from comp.unix.shell, given that many people here were
>> replacing the Mageia-supplied cdrkit (Wodim) package with Schily's
>> original (and much better) cdrtools...
>>
>> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>>
>>> Jörg Schilling, aka "schily", has died from cancer.
>>>
>>> For those who can read German:
>>> https://twitter.com/FUZxxl/status/1447319844295254020
>>> https://www.heise.de/news/Nachruf-Open-Source-Welt-trauert-um-Joerg-Schilling-6214446.html
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I never did get around to installing it.
> And now CD/DVD are deprecating.
>
> Are all the Linux users "getting on" Are we all ancient?
>

No but few young people would be on Usenet unless they were
very hip.

bliss - lost in spacetime and quantal interactions on a macroscopic
scale.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 13.10.2021 at 08:00, faeychild scribbled:

> On 13/10/21 02:36, Aragorn wrote:
>
> > Forwarded from comp.unix.shell, given that many people here were
> > replacing the Mageia-supplied cdrkit (Wodim) package with Schily's
> > original (and much better) cdrtools...
> >
> > Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> >
> >> Jörg Schilling, aka "schily", has died from cancer.
> >>
> >> For those who can read German:
> >> https://twitter.com/FUZxxl/status/1447319844295254020
> >> https://www.heise.de/news/Nachruf-Open-Source-Welt-trauert-um-Joerg-Schilling-6214446.html
>
> I never did get around to installing it.

It's not all that much work. Dave W. Hodgins wrote some very clear
instructions — the Duck is your friend. ;)

That said, luckily enough for me, it comes installed by default in
Manjaro (and Arch), with "wodim" being a symlink to Schily's actual
"cdrecord", as opposed to the other way around.

> And now CD/DVD are deprecating.

Yes, USB sticks have become the new floppy drives, but I for one am
still using optical media. This machine here won't even boot off of a
USB stick, even though it's supposed to be able to — probably a UEFI
bug.

> Are all the Linux users "getting on" Are we all ancient?

Of course we are. Twenty years ago, the people who developed free
& open source software all came from the UNIX world — as did Jörg for
that matter — but today's developers grew up on Windows, macOS and
smartphones, and they don't even understand UNIX.

And then I'm not even talking of the millennials we're getting over at
the Manjaro forum. They're almost all gamers, and 98% of them are
Windows users with a more than fair amount of Windows brainwashing,
while the remaining 2% are Mac users. And I'd say that about 85% of
them are all using laptops, with only 15% of them using a desktop
computer.

Even the attitudes have changed. While we do have a number of very
helpful members — similar to Usenet — and most of our other members are
well-behaved, we also get a lot of newbies with an attitude of
arrogance, coupled with utter stupidity. It's impossible to teach
those people the error of their ways.

The forum also has a great number of tutorials — I've written four of
them myself, but there are tons and tons more from other helpful
members, Manjaro developers and moderators — and the Discourse forum
engine allows (through a plugin) to mark posts as solutions, in which
case the solution is added to the opening post of the thread.
Furthermore, the forum also has a search engine, AND we have categories
for the different languages.

So, do you think people bother doing a search? Of course not. They've
got a problem — whatever said problem may be — and they're going to
post about it, even though it says right under their nose, in the
middle of the screen "Please do a search before posting", with a huge
search box right underneath. <facepalm>

Oh, and they don't even bother posting in the right categories either.
To hell with the German section, the Spanish section, the Russian
section, the Portuguese section, and so on.

The other day — a couple of days ago actually — some guy posted about a
problem with his graphics driver in the #network category. You would
think that people capable of using a computer would know how to read,
because they sure as hell know how to write — they do it all the time.

Sometimes you give them the solution, and they simply don't see it, so
that you have to quote your own post back to them. Or you give them
the solution, and then they post that they did what you said and it
worked, and they mark their own post as the solution. <rolling eyes>

And then lastly, you get the help vampires. A thread by a help vampire
generally doesn't have a solution, because once you've solved their
problem they move the goalposts and you need to answer their other
questions too. And so the thread keeps on going, ad infinitam if you
don't put a stop to it.

So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
world now.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:

>
> So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
> world now.
>
>

I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
seriously important to be one of the sheep
And if you are not on Facebook, you don't exist.
I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.

Regards

--
faeychild
Running plasmashell 5.20.4 on 5.10.70-desktop-1.mga8 kernel.
Mageia release 8 (Official) for x86_64 installed via Mageia-8-x86_64-DVD.iso

On 15.10.2021 at 07:52, faeychild scribbled:

> On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:
>
> > So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
> > world now.
>
> I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
> seriously important to be one of the sheep
> And if you are not on Facebook, you don't exist.

Well, I guess I don't exist then. But how do I convince the tax
collectors of that? :p

> I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
> texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.

Yes, welcome to the Smartphone Zombie Apocalypse. :/

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

On 10/14/21 14:13, Aragorn wrote:
> On 15.10.2021 at 07:52, faeychild scribbled:
>
>> On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:
>>
>>> So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
>>> world now.
>>
>> I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
>> seriously important to be one of the sheep
>> And if you are not on Facebook, you don't exist.
>
> Well, I guess I don't exist then. But how do I convince the tax
> collectors of that? :p
>
>> I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
>> texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.
>
> Yes, welcome to the Smartphone Zombie Apocalypse. :/
>

(anti)Social Media is going to take down what we have been
foolishly calling civilization but is no more than technological
advances handed over to the true dinosauria, the zombified phone
walkers and thumb exercisers. Maybe they will be carried forward
toward totally synthetic experience and become the button pushers
that people believed would be the course of evolution in the 1950s.

But that is life, as everyone starts to live in the water
and turn into seal-like mer-things. Humanity turns out to be
a blind alley in the march of evolution.

bliss - 'Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.' After all
here I am....

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> On 10/14/21 14:13, Aragorn wrote:
>> On 15.10.2021 at 07:52, faeychild scribbled:
>>
>>> On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
>>>> world now.
>>>
>>> I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
>>> seriously important to be one of the sheep
>>> And if you are not on Facebook, you don't exist.
>>
>> Well, I guess I don't exist then. But how do I convince the tax
>> collectors of that? :p
>>
>>> I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
>>> texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.
>>
>> Yes, welcome to the Smartphone Zombie Apocalypse. :/
>>
>
> (anti)Social Media is going to take down what we have been
> foolishly calling civilization but is no more than technological
> advances handed over to the true dinosauria, the zombified phone
> walkers and thumb exercisers. Maybe they will be carried forward
> toward totally synthetic experience and become the button pushers
> that people believed would be the course of evolution in the 1950s.

<snip>
I am less concerned about the effects of technological changes
than about the human psychological propensity to want someone else
to bear responsibility for all one's major decisions. That has
led to most people spending their lives subject to tyranny for
most of history, and it looks like one of the few partial
exceptions ("Western Civilization") may be fading.

Islam (Submission) totals about 1.6 billion and increasing. The
Koran, the Hadith, and the clerisy -- mullah upward to caliph or
ayatollah -- wield full authority over all Muslims, thus relieving
them of thinking for themselves.

The Muslims continue to regard jihad as the highest form of worship
for Allah and to define it as conversion, slaughter, enslavement,
or political and economic total domination of all non-Muslims, with
Heaven and 72 houris for all who die in the process and absolvement
from all sin for those who engage in it and survive. I consider
this a problem.

See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam
and the West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.

Marxism and its direct and indirect followers had a setback when
the USSR fell apart, but China is coming on strong and adoption
by virtually all of the radical left in Western societies of some
variety of Marxism or a descendant ideology is increasingly of
concern due to gains in the U.S. in particular.

Marx focused on two premier goals, destruction of religion and
capitalism, and regarded destruction of the family and property
rights as inescapable for that.

I find these to be destructive of a common morality and consequent
harmony among people, as well as destructive of economic motivation
and resulting prosperity due to human desire to acquire personal
power over others and accumulate material wealth.

The last translates to governmental tyranny by those few able
to indulge in their desires for power over others, or wealth,
or both, imposed on those subject to them. Twentieth Century
history informs of of what that does.

My justification why I am less concerned about technology
addressed, I shall drop this subject from a place where
arguably it does not belong.

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly, it merely
expects users to be computer friendly.

On 16/10/21 01:58, Jim wrote:

>
> See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam
> and the West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.
>

All we need is to discover how the universe came to be and these people
will find themselves looking foolish in the same camp as followers of
Thor, Zeus, Poseidon, Osiris etc.

I would enjoy that!

--
faeychild
Running plasmashell 5.20.4 on 5.10.70-desktop-1.mga8 kernel.
Mageia release 8 (Official) for x86_64 installed via Mageia-8-x86_64-DVD.iso

On 10/15/21 13:38, faeychild wrote:

> On 16/10/21 01:58, Jim wrote:
>
>>
>> See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam
>> and the West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.
>>
>
> All we need is to discover how the universe came to be and these people
> will find themselves looking foolish in the same camp as followers of
> Thor, Zeus, Poseidon, Osiris etc.
>
> I would enjoy that!

Followers of Thor and Odin aka the Asatru are in trouble now
over racist discrimination. They believe that skin color is key to
religious beliefs.
All the old pantheons are seemingly nothing more than worship
of archetypes embedded in human unconscious. But we will see in due
course of time if the no-fun-dumb-mentalists don't get in the way.

But Jörg Schilling has gone on and doubtless either is not
or else know the truth of all.

bliss - apparently the creation mythos of the various cults are now
considered childish.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 16/10/21 10:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

>
>     Followers of Thor and Odin aka the Asatru are in trouble now
> over racist discrimination.  They believe that skin color is key to
> religious beliefs.
>     All the old pantheons are seemingly nothing more than worship
> of archetypes embedded in human unconscious.  But we will see in due
> course of time if the no-fun-dumb-mentalists don't get in the way.
>
>     But Jörg Schilling has gone on and doubtless either is not
> or else know the truth of all.
>
> bliss - apparently the creation mythos of the various cults are now
> considered childish.
>

Totally correct!

As a side observation. I was at my neighbors house tonight and we had a
supply interruption.

We were watching "Vera" and her table lamp flickered, then dimmed, went
out and re established
The TV stayed off, the fridge kept running but the split system aircon
had a little fit
I turned it off for a few minutes to cool off any current trip resets
etc and it started up OK
But she was quite distraught "What was that! What happened!" panic
"What if it happens again."

I said "Nothing, you will be asleep".

Power interruptions are uncommon but not unheard of.
She said she had never had one before... "Really???"

My computer at home was still running. Recording two TV channels. Uptime
15 hours
Clearly a different phase

Most of the population live in world of ignorance based fear and panic.
Small wonder they believe in Ghosts demons and evil spirits

Education has truly failed us
What was it Karl Sagan said...

I am way of topic anyway.

Goodnight Bobbie

Regards

--
faeychild
Running plasmashell 5.20.4 on 5.10.70-desktop-1.mga8 kernel.
Mageia release 8 (Official) for x86_64 installed via Mageia-8-x86_64-DVD.iso

Op Fri, 15 Oct 2021 14:58:45 +0000, schreef Jim:

> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>> On 10/14/21 14:13, Aragorn wrote:
>>> On 15.10.2021 at 07:52, faeychild scribbled:
>>>
>>>> On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
>>>>> world now.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
>>>> seriously important to be one of the sheep And if you are not on
>>>> Facebook, you don't exist.
>>>
>>> Well, I guess I don't exist then. But how do I convince the tax
>>> collectors of that? :p
>>>
>>>> I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
>>>> texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.
>>>
>>> Yes, welcome to the Smartphone Zombie Apocalypse. :/
>>>
>>>
>> (anti)Social Media is going to take down what we have been
>> foolishly calling civilization but is no more than technological
>> advances handed over to the true dinosauria, the zombified phone
>> walkers and thumb exercisers. Maybe they will be carried forward
>> toward totally synthetic experience and become the button pushers that
>> people believed would be the course of evolution in the 1950s.
>
> <snip>
> I am less concerned about the effects of technological changes than
> about the human psychological propensity to want someone else to bear
> responsibility for all one's major decisions. That has led to most
> people spending their lives subject to tyranny for most of history, and
> it looks like one of the few partial exceptions ("Western Civilization")
> may be fading.
>
> Islam (Submission) totals about 1.6 billion and increasing. The Koran,
> the Hadith, and the clerisy -- mullah upward to caliph or ayatollah --
> wield full authority over all Muslims, thus relieving them of thinking
> for themselves.
>
> The Muslims continue to regard jihad as the highest form of worship for
> Allah and to define it as conversion, slaughter, enslavement, or
> political and economic total domination of all non-Muslims, with Heaven
> and 72 houris for all who die in the process and absolvement from all
> sin for those who engage in it and survive. I consider this a problem.
>
> See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the
> West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.
>
> Marxism and its direct and indirect followers had a setback when the
> USSR fell apart, but China is coming on strong and adoption by virtually
> all of the radical left in Western societies of some variety of Marxism
> or a descendant ideology is increasingly of concern due to gains in the
> U.S. in particular.
>
> Marx focused on two premier goals, destruction of religion and
> capitalism, and regarded destruction of the family and property rights
> as inescapable for that.
>
> I find these to be destructive of a common morality and consequent
> harmony among people, as well as destructive of economic motivation and
> resulting prosperity due to human desire to acquire personal power over
> others and accumulate material wealth.
>
> The last translates to governmental tyranny by those few able to indulge
> in their desires for power over others, or wealth,
> or both, imposed on those subject to them. Twentieth Century history
> informs of of what that does.
>
> My justification why I am less concerned about technology addressed, I
> shall drop this subject from a place where arguably it does not belong.

I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of Islam
and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the Christian
authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or any kind of
Protestantism.

Herman Viaene

>
> Cheers!
>
> jim b.

On 16.10.2021 at 12:50, Herman Viaene scribbled:

> Op Fri, 15 Oct 2021 14:58:45 +0000, schreef Jim:
>
> > The Muslims continue to regard jihad as the highest form of worship
> > for Allah and to define it as conversion, slaughter, enslavement, or
> > political and economic total domination of all non-Muslims, with
> > Heaven and 72 houris for all who die in the process and absolvement
> > from all sin for those who engage in it and survive. I consider
> > this a problem.
> >
> > See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and
> > the West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.
> >
> > Marxism and its direct and indirect followers had a setback when the
> > USSR fell apart, but China is coming on strong and adoption by
> > virtually all of the radical left in Western societies of some
> > variety of Marxism or a descendant ideology is increasingly of
> > concern due to gains in the U.S. in particular.
>
> I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of
> Islam and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the
> Christian authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or
> any kind of Protestantism.

It is always easier to spot the splinter in someone else's eye than to
see the beam in one's own. ;)

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 12:50:06 +0000, Herman Viaene wrote:

> Op Fri, 15 Oct 2021 14:58:45 +0000, schreef Jim:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/14/21 14:13, Aragorn wrote:
>>>> On 15.10.2021 at 07:52, faeychild scribbled:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
>>>>>> world now.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
>>>>> seriously important to be one of the sheep And if you are not on
>>>>> Facebook, you don't exist.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I guess I don't exist then. But how do I convince the tax
>>>> collectors of that? :p
>>>>
>>>>> I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
>>>>> texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, welcome to the Smartphone Zombie Apocalypse. :/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> (anti)Social Media is going to take down what we have been
>>> foolishly calling civilization but is no more than technological
>>> advances handed over to the true dinosauria, the zombified phone
>>> walkers and thumb exercisers. Maybe they will be carried forward
>>> toward totally synthetic experience and become the button pushers that
>>> people believed would be the course of evolution in the 1950s.
>>
>> <snip>
>> I am less concerned about the effects of technological changes than
>> about the human psychological propensity to want someone else to bear
>> responsibility for all one's major decisions. That has led to most
>> people spending their lives subject to tyranny for most of history, and
>> it looks like one of the few partial exceptions ("Western Civilization")
>> may be fading.
>>
>> Islam (Submission) totals about 1.6 billion and increasing. The Koran,
>> the Hadith, and the clerisy -- mullah upward to caliph or ayatollah --
>> wield full authority over all Muslims, thus relieving them of thinking
>> for themselves.
>>
>> The Muslims continue to regard jihad as the highest form of worship for
>> Allah and to define it as conversion, slaughter, enslavement, or
>> political and economic total domination of all non-Muslims, with Heaven
>> and 72 houris for all who die in the process and absolvement from all
>> sin for those who engage in it and survive. I consider this a problem.
>>
>> See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the
>> West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.
>>
>> Marxism and its direct and indirect followers had a setback when the
>> USSR fell apart, but China is coming on strong and adoption by virtually
>> all of the radical left in Western societies of some variety of Marxism
>> or a descendant ideology is increasingly of concern due to gains in the
>> U.S. in particular.
>>
>> Marx focused on two premier goals, destruction of religion and
>> capitalism, and regarded destruction of the family and property rights
>> as inescapable for that.
>>
>> I find these to be destructive of a common morality and consequent
>> harmony among people, as well as destructive of economic motivation and
>> resulting prosperity due to human desire to acquire personal power over
>> others and accumulate material wealth.
>>
>> The last translates to governmental tyranny by those few able to indulge
>> in their desires for power over others, or wealth,
>> or both, imposed on those subject to them. Twentieth Century history
>> informs of of what that does.
>>
>> My justification why I am less concerned about technology addressed, I
>> shall drop this subject from a place where arguably it does not belong.
>
> I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of Islam
> and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the Christian
> authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or any kind of
> Protestantism.

Should one attack what seems to be the "least-bad" of the major
contingents?

Success in such attack would seem likely to damage all, attacked
and attacker alike.

Of course, "least-bad" may be subject to disputes dependent on one's
existing values. If you think destroying all not like you in some
specific way is the epitome of "good," that would not favor any
variety of Christianity.

Survival and increase in numbers as the highest good would lead
to a different judgment, not necessarily dependent on our
individual or collective conscious goals and values.

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly, it merely
expects users to be computer friendly.

On 16.10.2021 at 14:07, Jim scribbled:

> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 12:50:06 +0000, Herman Viaene wrote:
>
> > I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of
> > Islam and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of
> > the Christian authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of
> > them) or any kind of Protestantism.
>
> Should one attack what seems to be the "least-bad" of the major
> contingents?
>
> Success in such attack would seem likely to damage all, attacked
> and attacker alike.
>
> Of course, "least-bad" may be subject to disputes dependent on one's
> existing values. If you think destroying all not like you in some
> specific way is the epitome of "good," that would not favor any
> variety of Christianity.

I don't think perpetually invading and occupying sovereign nations
since the end of World War II in order to "spread democracy" would be
the answer either.

Some believe in the Koran and corporeal punishment, others believe in
the petrodollar, with the slogan "In God We Trust" proudly printed on
it.

Same shit, different asshole. <shrug>

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

On 10/16/21 07:07, Jim wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 12:50:06 +0000, Herman Viaene wrote:
>
>> Op Fri, 15 Oct 2021 14:58:45 +0000, schreef Jim:
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/21 14:13, Aragorn wrote:
>>>>> On 15.10.2021 at 07:52, faeychild scribbled:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14/10/21 00:38, Aragorn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, long story short, yeah, we're all dinosaurs. It's a different
>>>>>>> world now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that you are valued by your "Facebook" "likes". It is
>>>>>> seriously important to be one of the sheep And if you are not on
>>>>>> Facebook, you don't exist.

And that is fun, not being seen by the Farcebookers.

>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I guess I don't exist then. But how do I convince the tax
>>>>> collectors of that? :p
>>>>>
>>>>>> I could not spend my entire day walking around looking at a phone and
>>>>>> texting nonsense to shallow buffoons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, welcome to the Smartphone Zombie Apocalypse. :/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> (anti)Social Media is going to take down what we have been
>>>> foolishly calling civilization but is no more than technological
>>>> advances handed over to the true dinosauria, the zombified phone
>>>> walkers and thumb exercisers. Maybe they will be carried forward
>>>> toward totally synthetic experience and become the button pushers that
>>>> people believed would be the course of evolution in the 1950s.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> I am less concerned about the effects of technological changes than
>>> about the human psychological propensity to want someone else to bear
>>> responsibility for all one's major decisions. That has led to most
>>> people spending their lives subject to tyranny for most of history, and
>>> it looks like one of the few partial exceptions ("Western Civilization")
>>> may be fading.
>>>
>>> Islam (Submission) totals about 1.6 billion and increasing. The Koran,
>>> the Hadith, and the clerisy -- mullah upward to caliph or ayatollah --
>>> wield full authority over all Muslims, thus relieving them of thinking
>>> for themselves.
>>>
>>> The Muslims continue to regard jihad as the highest form of worship for
>>> Allah and to define it as conversion, slaughter, enslavement, or
>>> political and economic total domination of all non-Muslims, with Heaven
>>> and 72 houris for all who die in the process and absolvement from all
>>> sin for those who engage in it and survive. I consider this a problem.

Our USA Christian Dominionist maintain similar precepts.
>>>
>>> See Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the
>>> West by Raymond Ibrahim for details if such interest you.

If only Sword and Scimtars, were still the only tools of the warlike.

>>>
>>> Marxism and its direct and indirect followers had a setback when the
>>> USSR fell apart, but China is coming on strong and adoption by virtually
>>> all of the radical left in Western societies of some variety of Marxism
>>> or a descendant ideology is increasingly of concern due to gains in the
>>> U.S. in particular.

That is called the Labor Movement. As for Capitalism the damage it has
done at home and abroad is horrendous. A vile form of petrochemical
capitalism refuses to give up its profits while executives
of companies are overpaid and the workers' pay lags behind the Cost of
Living.

>>>
>>> Marx focused on two premier goals, destruction of religion and
>>> capitalism, and regarded destruction of the family and property rights
>>> as inescapable for that.

Marx was trained as a priest so he knew how bad religion could be. If
he had come from a propertied family he might not have been so harsh.
But in Europe and Asia of the time most of the properties were
exploitative aristos. In the USA the Propertied was a much wider class
but the top property owners thought of the rest as less than human.

>>>
>>> I find these to be destructive of a common morality and consequent
>>> harmony among people, as well as destructive of economic motivation and
>>> resulting prosperity due to human desire to acquire personal power over
>>> others and accumulate material wealth.

Economic motivation for non-Capitalist consists of getting enough money
to live on and enjoy non-working moments.

>>>
>>> The last translates to governmental tyranny by those few able to indulge
>>> in their desires for power over others, or wealth,
>>> or both, imposed on those subject to them. Twentieth Century history
>>> informs of of what that does.
>>>
>>> My justification why I am less concerned about technology addressed, I
>>> shall drop this subject from a place where arguably it does not belong.
>>
>> I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of Islam
>> and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the Christian
>> authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or any kind of
>> Protestantism.
>
> Should one attack what seems to be the "least-bad" of the major
> contingents?
>
> Success in such attack would seem likely to damage all, attacked
> and attacker alike.
>
> Of course, "least-bad" may be subject to disputes dependent on one's
> existing values. If you think destroying all not like you in some
> specific way is the epitome of "good," that would not favor any
> variety of Christianity.
>
> Survival and increase in numbers as the highest good would lead
> to a different judgment, not necessarily dependent on our
> individual or collective conscious goals and values.
>
> Cheers!
>
> jim b.
>
Actually Buddhism has many varieties and even violent against
other religions while Hinduism has attacked Christianity, Islam and
Buddhism. Even Shinto a religion without dogmas has had a vile
variety that helped motivate the War on China and the Pacific War.

I won't say that Christianity is worse than other religions
because as far as I can see they are all based on primitive beliefs.
I went to several Protestant church mostly fundamentalist as I grew
up and to Catholic High School which gave me plenty of grounds to
reject religion but I investigated in every direction that was
feasible and remain now an unconvinced Atheist. I mean a prime
mover is perfectly compatible with the creation and evolution of
the SpaceTime Continuum. But no viable evidence except in the
basic arrangements which allow for being and duration.

Some varieties of Buddhism though are perfectly compatible
with Ethical Humanism which is quite christian but leaves out
supernatural motivations. As for more people we have enough
that in some area the Seas are over fertilized by out waste. The
result is overgrowth of Sargassum weed. The weed is washing up
on the beaches of the Caribbean sea where it rots emitting
hydrogen sulphide, a stinky and poisonous gas.

>
> Mats of Sargassum macroalgae overruns the Caribbean and
> culprit of the power outage in Puerto Rico.
> <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/10/12/2057577/-Mats-of-Sargassum-macroalgae-overruns-the-Caribbean-and-culprit-of-the-power-outage-in-Puerto-Rico>
>
> And so our our poisonous stink comes back to us...

So survival OK. Greatest Goods are debatable.
Jörg Schilling has passed on and either is not or knows the truth.
Though he was helpful in life I don't think he is going to
clue us in.

bliss - Your tag lines (k) were stolen!
(more) There is a puff of smoke!

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Op Sat, 16 Oct 2021 14:07:11 +0000, schreef Jim:

....snip......
>
> Should one attack what seems to be the "least-bad" of the major
> contingents?
>

Oh yes, I've been waiting on that one: comments on islam and marxism is
rightfull criticism, on "Christianity" is an attack.
And who is better placed to see "Christianty"'s wrongs and try to do
something about it than the "Christians" themselves?????
In Dutch we have an expression, difficult to translate: if everyone
sweeps before his own door, then the whole street is cleaned up.

Herman Viaene

On 16/10/21 23:50, Herman Viaene wrote:

> I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of Islam
> and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the Christian
> authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or any kind of
> Protestantism.

The crusades being the elephant in the room

I wouldn't be terribly forgiving about it either

--
faeychild
Running plasmashell 5.20.4 on 5.10.70-desktop-1.mga8 kernel.
Mageia release 8 (Official) for x86_64 installed via Mageia-8-x86_64-DVD.iso

On 17.10.2021 at 22:51, faeychild scribbled:

> On 16/10/21 23:50, Herman Viaene wrote:
>
> > I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of
> > Islam and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of
> > the Christian authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of
> > them) or any kind of Protestantism.
>
> The crusades being the elephant in the room
Don't forget the Spanish Inquisition, with people first being tortured
and then either burned at the stake, quartered by horses, cast into a
river with a millstone tied to their necks, broken on the wheel, or —
if they were lucky — simply beheaded with an ax.

Even now in the 21st century, being an altar boy is a fairly hazardous
way of wasting one's youth.

But hey, you mustn't complain about any of it. After all, "Jesus died
for your sins", you know? ;)

Catholicism : "Shit happens because I deserve it."

Protestanism : "Shit won't happen if I work harder."

7th-Day Adventists : "Shit only happens on Saturdays."

Islam : "Shit happens because of the infidels."

Judaism : "Why is this shit always happening to me?"

Hinduism : "This shit has happened before."

Buddhism : "If shit happens, is it really shit?"

Hare Krishna : "Shit happens, rama lama ding dong!"

Rastafarianism : "Littaz smoke dees sheet, mon!"

:p

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 22:51:34 +1100, faeychild wrote:

> On 16/10/21 23:50, Herman Viaene wrote:
>
>> I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of Islam
>> and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the Christian
>> authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or any kind of
>> Protestantism.
>
>
> The crusades being the elephant in the room
>
> I wouldn't be terribly forgiving about it either

Read the book Sword and Scimitar by Raymond Ibrahim.

You will have a new perspective on the Crusades, and
likely on a variety of other major historical sagas
as well.

Cheers!

jim .

--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly, it merely
expects users to be computer friendly.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 14:53:19 +0200, Aragorn wrote:

> On 17.10.2021 at 22:51, faeychild scribbled:
>
>> On 16/10/21 23:50, Herman Viaene wrote:
>>
>> > I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of
>> > Islam and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of
>> > the Christian authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of
>> > them) or any kind of Protestantism.
>>
>> The crusades being the elephant in the room
>
> Don't forget the Spanish Inquisition, with people first being tortured
> and then either burned at the stake, quartered by horses, cast into a
> river with a millstone tied to their necks, broken on the wheel, or —
> if they were lucky — simply beheaded with an ax.

The Spanish Inquisition was not far from trivial, in comparison to
activities of the Muslims in Spain. I seem to remember a death toll
of only 3,000 or so. Not trivial by thinking in England or Christian
Europe but nothing unusual or notable elsewhere. Again, Read Raymond
Ibrahim's book Sword and Scimitar.

That said, Roman Catholicism has been subject to much criticism within
the United States, with a principal complaint the Catholic Church
dominated people's thinking and decisions to such an extent it
constituted a despotism.

In this sense, it ranks right up with Islam and Communism in responding
to people's propensity to want someone else to bear responsibility for
all one's major decisions, and has likewise led to most people spending
their lives subject to tyranny.

Departure of U.S. Catholics from such obedience to the Church, presumably
in response to the influence of Protestantism, has reduced criticism of
Catholicism in the U.S., while evoking criticism from within the
Roman Catholic Church itself for the errant ways of many of its own people...

And the Orthodox or Eastern Catholic Church is a topic for yet
more study, if ever I get around to it.

Reverting to my failure to worry too much about technology, I find
technology like California' terrain and weather to be wonderful.
It's the people all too often associated with them that constitute
the onerous problems afflicting.

> Even now in the 21st century, being an altar boy is a fairly hazardous
> way of wasting one's youth.
>
> But hey, you mustn't complain about any of it. After all, "Jesus died
> for your sins", you know? ;)
>
>
> Catholicism : "Shit happens because I deserve it."
>
> Protestanism : "Shit won't happen if I work harder."
>
> 7th-Day Adventists : "Shit only happens on Saturdays."
>
> Islam : "Shit happens because of the infidels."
>
> Judaism : "Why is this shit always happening to me?"
>
> Hinduism : "This shit has happened before."
>
> Buddhism : "If shit happens, is it really shit?"
>
> Hare Krishna : "Shit happens, rama lama ding dong!"
>
> Rastafarianism : "Littaz smoke dees sheet, mon!"
>
>
> :p

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly, it merely
expects users to be computer friendly.

On 10/17/21 04:51, faeychild wrote:
> On 16/10/21 23:50, Herman Viaene wrote:
>
>> I find it strange when people start enumerating the bad sides of Islam
>> and Marxism, they always forget to list the wrong-doings of the Christian
>> authorities, be it Catholic (being myself one of them) or any kind of
>> Protestantism.
>
>
> The crusades being the elephant in the room
>
> I wouldn't be terribly forgiving about it either

I consider the Inquisition particularly in Spain
as the Rhinoceros in the room. Then there was the
attack on the Renaissance's natural sciences rejecting
the observation of Galileo Galilei, etc. to be pretty
bad but the Crusades were at about the worst level with
the death of children, the attacks by fellow Christians
on the City of Constantinople now Istanbul, the massacre
of the people of Jerusalem, winding up with the Wars over
religion in Europe proper, the mistreatment of children
in orphanages, but it seems the horrors never end.

Oh and it continues until now in the USA with the Christianists
screaming about suppression of religion when they are told to
stay within bounds of religion and stay out of politics.

But Jörg Schilling is still dead as far as I know. If that
changes I hope it will be noted here.

bliss - lost in spacetime and quantal interactions on a macroscopic
scale.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 08:01:20 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> Oh and it continues until now in the USA with the Christianists
> screaming about suppression of religion when they are told to
> stay within bounds of religion and stay out of politics.

Amendment I to the U.S. Constitution was intended to keep the
Federal Government's fingers out of religion.

IIRC, at the time it was written and adopted, a majority of
the colonies had an established religion, and absolutely nothing
was being done at the Federal level to affect that. Changes
at the state level did occur, particularly in the early 1800s,
but they did not restrict or discourage participation in
politics by religions entities, just restricted or discouraged
governmental participation in or support for religion by the state.

It was never intended to keep religion out of politics.

Those who think or complain otherwise are simply unaware
of the details of history and desirous of imposing their
opinions on others.

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly, it merely
expects users to be computer friendly.

On 10/17/21 10:51, Jim wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 08:01:20 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>> Oh and it continues until now in the USA with the Christianists
>> screaming about suppression of religion when they are told to
>> stay within bounds of religion and stay out of politics.
>
> Amendment I to the U.S. Constitution was intended to keep the
> Federal Government's fingers out of religion.
>
> IIRC, at the time it was written and adopted, a majority of
> the colonies had an established religion, and absolutely nothing
> was being done at the Federal level to affect that. Changes
> at the state level did occur, particularly in the early 1800s,
> but they did not restrict or discourage participation in
> politics by religions entities, just restricted or discouraged
> governmental participation in or support for religion by the state.
>
> It was never intended to keep religion out of politics.
>
> Those who think or complain otherwise are simply unaware
> of the details of history and desirous of imposing their
> opinions on others.
>
> Cheers!
>
> jim b.
>
That has not been the interpretation of several successive
Supreme Courts in my lifetime and I believe previous to that but,
Jörg Schilling is still dead and while tacking on other subjects
is common enough I doubt he would be encouraged by this.

The religious wars in Europe following the Protestant Reformation and
the Catholic counter-reformation is why we don't
ave an established church in this nation. Too much blood shed
and too much disruption of commerce. Could be compared to the
effect of the Black Death. Religion can be a mental plague.

We can avoid religious wars internally, I hope but, since
the Anti-vaccinations, anti-mask movements and rejection of common
public health measures by religious institutions my hope is waning.

bliss - 'Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.' After all
here I am...

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 11:05:05 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> On 10/17/21 10:51, Jim wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 08:01:20 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>> Oh and it continues until now in the USA with the Christianists
>>> screaming about suppression of religion when they are told to
>>> stay within bounds of religion and stay out of politics.
>>
>> Amendment I to the U.S. Constitution was intended to keep the
>> Federal Government's fingers out of religion.
>>
>> IIRC, at the time it was written and adopted, a majority of
>> the colonies had an established religion, and absolutely nothing
>> was being done at the Federal level to affect that. Changes
>> at the state level did occur, particularly in the early 1800s,
>> but they did not restrict or discourage participation in
>> politics by religions entities, just restricted or discouraged
>> governmental participation in or support for religion by the state.
>>
>> It was never intended to keep religion out of politics.
>>
>> Those who think or complain otherwise are simply unaware
>> of the details of history and desirous of imposing their
>> opinions on others.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> jim b.
>>
> That has not been the interpretation of several successive
> Supreme Courts in my lifetime and I believe previous to that but,
> Jörg Schilling is still dead and while tacking on other subjects
> is common enough I doubt he would be encouraged by this.
>
> The religious wars in Europe following the Protestant Reformation and
> the Catholic counter-reformation is why we don't
> ave an established church in this nation. Too much blood shed
> and too much disruption of commerce. Could be compared to the
> effect of the Black Death. Religion can be a mental plague.
>
> We can avoid religious wars internally, I hope but, since
> the Anti-vaccinations, anti-mask movements and rejection of common
> public health measures by religious institutions my hope is waning.
>
> bliss - 'Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.' After all
> here I am...

Your comment above is strong evidence you know little or nothing
of the roles, conflicts, and commonalities of the varieties of
Christian faith in the colonies and the states they became, up
through at least 1800.

This is not a proper forum to address such matters, though, and
I will simply restate that my comment above stands.

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly, it merely
expects users to be computer friendly.