Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
same place on the same network.
Is that to do with the aerial?
Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?

--
Jim the Geordie

Jim the Geordie wrote:

> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> same place on the same network.

Well, it may get higher signal bars, but the best speed that'll reach on
WCDMA is 2Mbps, where even a couple of bars of LTE will get you a few
10's of Mbps

A Jelly Bean 2.5G phone is not much more than a curio really ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>> same place on the same network.
>
> Well, it may get higher signal bars, but the best speed that'll reach on
> WCDMA is 2Mbps, where even a couple of bars of LTE will get you a few
> 10's of Mbps
>
> A Jelly Bean 2.5G phone is not much more than a curio really ...

Each time I get a new Android phone, I compare its Wi-Fi and cellular
signal strength to the older Android phones to see if there's a difference.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.google.cellular_pro>

There almost always is.

On 2023-09-04 14:21, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>
> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> same place on the same network.
> Is that to do with the aerial?
> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?

Possibly not using the same frequency bands, so the transmitters could
be different ones or even at different sites.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 9/4/2023 2:21 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>
> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> same place on the same network.
> Is that to do with the aerial?
> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>

I would think that the hardware would make more difference than the Android
version. You say that your older phone is a Samsung. Which model? What is
the newer phone? I've been on the Nexus/Pixel train since Nexus S days and
have never noted any change in reception due to OS changes but some phones
were clearly better than others in weak-signal conditions. Local bands
could, of course, make a difference but in a given geographic location from
the same carrier I'd expect that to be less of a factor.

Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> same place on the same network.
> Is that to do with the aerial?
> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?

Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
the wind.

Go into Android settings -> General -> About phone -> Network (your
navpath may vary from mine). Look at the dBm measurement to compare
signal strength on the 2 phones.

You can also use an app to give your cellular info, like Network Cell
Info. There are lite and full versions. I paid the $2 to get the full
version.

https://play.google.com/store/search?q=network+cell+info+lite&c=apps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfo

You'll get far more info than you'll likely understand for a long time.
One feature, map, will show to which cell tower the phone is connected.
Possibly one phone connects to a different cell tower than the other
phone, and distance causes signal attentuation as do obstructions
between cell tower to phone. Both phones on the same cellular carrier
does not mean both phones connect to the same cell tower.

On 2023-09-04 18:16, Bodger wrote:
> On 9/4/2023 2:21 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>>
>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>> same place on the same network.
>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>
>
> I would think that the hardware would make more difference than the
> Android version.

It is a clue on the year of manufacture.

That phone has to be quite old, so it can not receive the new bands.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 9/4/2023 10:55 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
> the wind.

Agree with you the Wi-Fi status bars are almost useless for comparisons.
They put them there for the mom & pop who don't know anything about Wi-Fi.

> Go into Android settings -> General -> About phone -> Network (your
> navpath may vary from mine). Look at the dBm measurement to compare
> signal strength on the 2 phones.

Even better, the newer Androids tell you the signal strength in decibels
right where you do the normal Wi-Fi connection - for _all_ your SSIDs.

You also get channel and MAC address and a lot of other information.

On my phone, it's set in the Android 12 Developer options Settings area.
Settings > Developer options > Enable Wi-Fi Verbose logging = on/off
"Increase Wi-Fi logging level, show per SSID RSSI in Wi-Fi Picker"
> You can also use an app to give your cellular info, like Network Cell
> Info. There are lite and full versions. I paid the $2 to get the full
> version.
> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=network+cell+info+lite&c=apps
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfo

Lots of apps to choose which report the Wi-Fi & cellular signal strength.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=wi-fi+signal+strength+meter&c=apps

> You'll get far more info than you'll likely understand for a long time.
> One feature, map, will show to which cell tower the phone is connected.

While that is correct, it's only approximate since nobody but the cell
tower companies has an _accurate_ map of where all the cell towers are.

It's a guess. Probably not a bad guess. But it's a guess nonetheless.

> Possibly one phone connects to a different cell tower than the other
> phone, and distance causes signal attentuation as do obstructions
> between cell tower to phone.

Personally, I'd never in a million years buy an app that I didn't test out
the freeware alternatives first - since usually you don't need any money.

Looking at the dozen Wi-Fi signal analyzers that came up, all but a few had
ads or cost money - but this one says that it's free and open source.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vrem.wifianalyzer

These are also free without ads but they're not open source applications.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubnt.usurvey
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manageengine.wifimonitor

This one is also free without ads & it maps out your home Wi-Fi signal.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.etwok.netspotapp

> Both phones on the same cellular carrier
> does not mean both phones connect to the same cell tower.

Most of the Wi-Fi analyzers tell you the unique tower ID, which can be a
local femto/micro cell in someone's house or inside of a large building.

They also tell you the sector ID, and the frequency band, where what you
say is true - that just knowing the tower doesn't mean the same antenna.
--
regards,
Neil

Neil <neil@myschool.edu> wrote:

> Personally, I'd never in a million years buy an app that I didn't test
> out the freeware alternatives first - since usually you don't need
> any money.

I used the free edition of Network Cell Info Lite for about 2 years. At
one point, I inventoried all the free apps that I had used for more than
a year, and determined how often I used it. If the app was useful, I
recompense the author. I grew up in the heyday of shareware, and if I
continued using the software then I paid for it. If the cost was a nip
instead of a deep bite, I'd reward the software author. I won't pay for
an app to get rid of just ads. Paying means I get more features, not
eliminate nuisances. Shareware has waned, but some software is
donationware. Free editions are often lures to pay, but there must be
bang-for-the-buck on additional features -- that I will actually use.

For example, I've still not paid for CCleaner after using it for many
years, because its payware version has no features that I want. I'd get
nothing in return for my money.

Android apps that I first got free, kept for over a year, used many
times, and found highly useful, and then paid for are:
- M2Catlyst's Network Cell Info ($2.14).
- MobiWia's GPS Status & Toolbox ($2.14).
- Hawkins' Torque Pro ($5.32). Used with a ODB2 dongle to view and
analyze car problems).
- Talent App's ParKing ($6.98). Alas, its owner abandoned the app, and
it has a couple bugs, the author hasn't replied to anyone since 2021,
but it was useful back then, and mostly still is).

I have a bunch of free apps that I won't pay for, or don't even have a
premium version to buy. In fact, some apps won't let you buy a premium
version just to get rid of ads, because the author makes more revenue
due to the ads then trying to get a remainder slice of the billing
through the Google Play Store.

I don't install many apps on my smartphone. I'm not an app-aholic.
Every couple of years I review the apps on my phone to decide if I'd get
something more that I actually want by buying the premium version. Some
are truly free apps (which means no ads since that is a nuisance cost),
so no way to reward their authors. Some have payware versions, but if
all paying does is get rid of ads then I don't pay, and more likely will
remove. Hard to find free apps that aren't also adware. Although it's
been over a couple years since my last review of apps to decide if I
wanted to pay for any of them, I've done a recent review, and there
aren't any more that have a premium version that I want, or don't have a
premium version at all.

On 2023-09-04 22:55, VanguardLH wrote:
> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>> same place on the same network.
>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>
> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
> the wind.

You might want to look into windsocks a bit more before you use that
analogy again:

'Alternating stripes of high-visibility orange and white were initially
used to help to estimate wind speed, with each stripe adding 3 knots
(5.6 km/h; 3.5 mph) to the estimated speed. However, some circular frame
mountings cause windsocks to be held open at one end, indicating a
velocity of 3 knots even when stripes are not present. A fully extended
windsock suggests a wind speed of 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) or greater.[2]'

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsock>

On 9/5/2023 1:56 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> If the app was useful, I recompense the author.

It's interesting people think it's about the money, when the money is the
least of the penalties for paying ten bucks for free software.

Buying it gives a healthy cut to Google who doesn't deserve 30%.

You can usually donate to the author instead of buying the software.
That way the author gets 100% instead of only 70% of your money.

In addition you must be a smarter man than I am to be able to buy software
off the Google Play Store without using a credit card on your account.

The tremendous loss of privacy from credit cards is how they keep tabs on
people and, anecdotally, it's how they catch criminals (like the National
Guard IT guy who opened up the social media account he posted the documents
to using his credit card and home address).

How do you manage to pay for apps without surrendering your privacy?

Lastly, once you put a credit card on an Android phone, it instantly
becomes dangerous - like a radioactive barrel of nuclear plant waste.

Forevermore, for the rest of the life of that phone (and for the rest of
the life of the backups of that phone), you now have to worry about
safeguarding that phone from being lost, stolen or hacked.

How did you manage to pay for apps to the tune of only a few bucks and yet
you lost the convenience and privacy of having a phone that you wouldn't
care if you lost it or if it was stolen.

You lost thousands (or whatever) worth of worries for ten dollars of app.
Unless you are smarter than that and you found a (secret?) way around it?

It's not about the money - people who think it is about the money don't
understand it's not about the ten bucks - it's about the loss of privacy.

1. Google gets 30% and the developer loses that 30%
2. Your credit card is a huge loss of privacy on a phone
3. Putting a credit card on a phone is like making the phone radioactive

You have to safeguard it forever - just because of that one simple mistake.
--
regards,
Neil

In article <klnl1pF8sovU4@mid.individual.net>, robin_listas@es.invalid
says...
>
> On 2023-09-04 18:16, Bodger wrote:
> > On 9/4/2023 2:21 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> >>
> >> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> >> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> >> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> >> same place on the same network.
> >> Is that to do with the aerial?
> >> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
> >>
> >
> > I would think that the hardware would make more difference than the
> > Android version.
>
> It is a clue on the year of manufacture.
>
> That phone has to be quite old, so it can not receive the new bands.

My point is that the old phone works better then the newer one!

--
Jim the Geordie

In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> > is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> > reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> > same place on the same network.
> > Is that to do with the aerial?
> > Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>
> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
> the wind.
>
> Go into Android settings -> General -> About phone -> Network (your
> navpath may vary from mine). Look at the dBm measurement to compare
> signal strength on the 2 phones.
>
> You can also use an app to give your cellular info, like Network Cell
> Info. There are lite and full versions. I paid the $2 to get the full
> version.
>
> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=network+cell+info+lite&c=apps
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfo
>
> You'll get far more info than you'll likely understand for a long time.
> One feature, map, will show to which cell tower the phone is connected.
> Possibly one phone connects to a different cell tower than the other
> phone, and distance causes signal attentuation as do obstructions
> between cell tower to phone. Both phones on the same cellular carrier
> does not mean both phones connect to the same cell tower.

All very interesting, but no help really.
I'll just have to use the older phone at this one location.

--
Jim the Geordie

Neil <neil@myschool.edu> wrote:

> On 9/5/2023 1:56 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> If the app was useful, I recompense the author.
>
> It's interesting people think it's about the money, when the money is the
> least of the penalties for paying ten bucks for free software.
>
> Buying it gives a healthy cut to Google who doesn't deserve 30%.
>
> You can usually donate to the author instead of buying the software.
> That way the author gets 100% instead of only 70% of your money.
>
> In addition you must be a smarter man than I am to be able to buy software
> off the Google Play Store without using a credit card on your account.
>
> The tremendous loss of privacy from credit cards is how they keep tabs on
> people and, anecdotally, it's how they catch criminals (like the National
> Guard IT guy who opened up the social media account he posted the documents
> to using his credit card and home address).
>
> How do you manage to pay for apps without surrendering your privacy?
>
> Lastly, once you put a credit card on an Android phone, it instantly
> becomes dangerous - like a radioactive barrel of nuclear plant waste.
>
> Forevermore, for the rest of the life of that phone (and for the rest of
> the life of the backups of that phone), you now have to worry about
> safeguarding that phone from being lost, stolen or hacked.
>
> How did you manage to pay for apps to the tune of only a few bucks and yet
> you lost the convenience and privacy of having a phone that you wouldn't
> care if you lost it or if it was stolen.
>
> You lost thousands (or whatever) worth of worries for ten dollars of app.
> Unless you are smarter than that and you found a (secret?) way around it?
>
> It's not about the money - people who think it is about the money don't
> understand it's not about the ten bucks - it's about the loss of privacy.
>
> 1. Google gets 30% and the developer loses that 30%
> 2. Your credit card is a huge loss of privacy on a phone
> 3. Putting a credit card on a phone is like making the phone radioactive
>
> You have to safeguard it forever - just because of that one simple mistake.

I'm not getting into the privacy debate. You have folks so scared of
using credit cards online, but think nothing of handing them over to a
table jockey at a restaurant.

We've already stepped away from the main thread, and this steps away
again, so the discussion gets way off-topic.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2023-09-04 22:55, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>>> same place on the same network.
>>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>
>> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
>> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
>> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
>> the wind.
>
> You might want to look into windsocks a bit more before you use that
> analogy again:
>
> 'Alternating stripes of high-visibility orange and white were initially
> used to help to estimate wind speed, with each stripe adding 3 knots
> (5.6 km/h; 3.5 mph) to the estimated speed. However, some circular frame
> mountings cause windsocks to be held open at one end, indicating a
> velocity of 3 knots even when stripes are not present. A fully extended
> windsock suggests a wind speed of 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) or greater.[2]'
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsock>

With as much accuracy as bars for signal strength on a phone.

Neil <neil@myschool.edu> writes:
>How do you manage to pay for apps without surrendering your privacy?

Here, you can buy credit cards in several types of stores,
e.g., for 15 or 50 Euro. They have a multi-digit confirmation
number printed on them. You can pay the cards in cash.

These cards are usually designed to pay for a service with a
particular provider.

I don't know much about those cards, but I guess you then
could transfer the number to you creditor and he them might
be able to gain a monetary benefit from it.

So, you might be able to pay via that number, and that number
is not connected to you in an obvious matter.

Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>
>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>>> same place on the same network.
>>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>
>> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
>> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
>> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
>> the wind.
>>
>> Go into Android settings -> General -> About phone -> Network (your
>> navpath may vary from mine). Look at the dBm measurement to compare
>> signal strength on the 2 phones.
>>
>> You can also use an app to give your cellular info, like Network Cell
>> Info. There are lite and full versions. I paid the $2 to get the full
>> version.
>>
>> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=network+cell+info+lite&c=apps
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfo
>>
>> You'll get far more info than you'll likely understand for a long time.
>> One feature, map, will show to which cell tower the phone is connected.
>> Possibly one phone connects to a different cell tower than the other
>> phone, and distance causes signal attentuation as do obstructions
>> between cell tower to phone. Both phones on the same cellular carrier
>> does not mean both phones connect to the same cell tower.
>
> All very interesting, but no help really.
> I'll just have to use the older phone at this one location.

Ah, I see. You started the discussion, but it really wasn't important
enough to even go into your phone's settings to check signal dBm while
watching a commercial on TV.

Someone else mentioned which bands your phones support. You could go to
gsmarena.com to hunt down your phone to see which bands each phone
supports. There are apps that will tell you, too.

RF density may not be as homogenous as you think. I've seen where
rocking in a chair or moving just a couple feet can affect signal
strength. How exact is "same place" when testing your phones?

What does "better reception" mean? That sound quality is more scratchy,
there are cutouts, you can't receive or make calls, what? Is it about
sound quality at your end, or the other person's end in the call?
Perhaps reception to you is about the quality of calls. Reception alone
means signal strength, and bars won't tell you that, so how do you know
reception is worse for one of your phones? There is NO STANDARD on what
a bar represents for signal strength. Every phone maker chooses
whatever scale they want. Until you look at the dBm reading while
connecting in a call, you have no way to know signal strength is weaker
or stronger for one phone compared to the other phone.

Some artifacts may be due to enable noise reduction on your phone (often
a setting in the dialer app). I have a buddy where it makes his voice
have cutouts, especially when using his phone through his car's head
unit. Lots of noise in a car. On my phone, there are 2 sound quality
options: suppression and clarity. Suppression (noise cancelling) is
used to cutout background noise on my end of a call. Alas, sometimes
the voice gets suppressed, too, having the other person hear cutouts in
your voice. Clarity attempts to make the other person's voice sound
better. On my phone, I disabled both options which reduced the number
of cutouts from the other person that I'd hear, and the number of
cutouts in my voice that the other person hears. It's not like these
options provide you with variable tweaking levels.

When you say both phones use the same carrier, are they? Do you
contract with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, or other major carrier? Or do
you use an MVNO, like Tracfone? With an MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network
Operator), like Tracfone, you pay them, but they decide which carrier
you use. Could be AT&T, Verizon, or some other carrier they decide to
assign to your SIM. Do you KNOW you are using the same carrier from the
same cell tower for both phones?

On 9/5/2023 5:45 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> You have to safeguard it forever - just because of that one simple mistake.
>
> I'm not getting into the privacy debate. You have folks so scared of
> using credit cards online, but think nothing of handing them over to a
> table jockey at a restaurant.

True. But you were defending the pittance you paid for the tools, where I
was just explaining that there are two sides to that coin, one of which is
donating to the developer achieves more than donating 1/3rd to Google, and
the other is that the instant you put financial information onto a phone,
it becomes a radioactive waste that has to be guarded lest it get out.

> We've already stepped away from the main thread, and this steps away
> again, so the discussion gets way off-topic.

True. The discussion is about how to tell if two phones have differing
reception, and in order to definitively check, the OP needs the software.

Without the software - the OP is mostly guessing based only on bars.
--
regards,
Neil

On 2023-09-05 03:59, Neil wrote:
> On 9/5/2023 1:56 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>  If the app was useful, I recompense the author.
>
> It's interesting people think it's about the money, when the money is the
> least of the penalties for paying ten bucks for free software.
>
> Buying it gives a healthy cut to Google who doesn't deserve 30%.
>
> You can usually donate to the author instead of buying the software.
> That way the author gets 100% instead of only 70% of your money.
>
> In addition you must be a smarter man than I am to be able to buy
> software off the Google Play Store without using a credit card on your
> account.
>
> The tremendous loss of privacy from credit cards is how they keep tabs
> on people and, anecdotally, it's how they catch criminals (like the
> National Guard IT guy who opened up the social media account he posted
> the documents to using his credit card and home address).
>
> How do you manage to pay for apps without surrendering your privacy?
>
> Lastly, once you put a credit card on an Android phone, it instantly
> becomes dangerous - like a radioactive barrel of nuclear plant waste.
>
> Forevermore, for the rest of the life of that phone (and for the rest of
> the life of the backups of that phone), you now have to worry about
> safeguarding that phone from being lost, stolen or hacked.
>
> How did you manage to pay for apps to the tune of only a few bucks and
> yet you lost the convenience and privacy of having a phone that you
> wouldn't care if you lost it or if it was stolen.
>
> You lost thousands (or whatever) worth of worries for ten dollars of app.
> Unless you are smarter than that and you found a (secret?) way around it?
>
> It's not about the money - people who think it is about the money don't
> understand it's not about the ten bucks - it's about the loss of privacy.
>
> 1. Google gets 30% and the developer loses that 30%
> 2. Your credit card is a huge loss of privacy on a phone
> 3. Putting a credit card on a phone is like making the phone radioactive
>
> You have to safeguard it forever - just because of that one simple mistake.

Hi, Arlen!

On 2023-09-05 05:46, VanguardLH wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-09-04 22:55, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>>>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>>>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>>>> same place on the same network.
>>>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>>>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>>
>>> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
>>> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
>>> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
>>> the wind.
>>
>> You might want to look into windsocks a bit more before you use that
>> analogy again:
>>
>> 'Alternating stripes of high-visibility orange and white were initially
>> used to help to estimate wind speed, with each stripe adding 3 knots
>> (5.6 km/h; 3.5 mph) to the estimated speed. However, some circular frame
>> mountings cause windsocks to be held open at one end, indicating a
>> velocity of 3 knots even when stripes are not present. A fully extended
>> windsock suggests a wind speed of 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) or greater.[2]'
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsock>
>
> With as much accuracy as bars for signal strength on a phone.

Why would you imagine that windsocks aren't reasonably accurate?

In article <1t1rg47o0b6k9$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
> >>
> >> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
> >>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
> >>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
> >>> same place on the same network.
> >>> Is that to do with the aerial?
> >>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
> >>
> >> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
> >> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
> >> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
> >> the wind.
> >>
> >> Go into Android settings -> General -> About phone -> Network (your
> >> navpath may vary from mine). Look at the dBm measurement to compare
> >> signal strength on the 2 phones.
> >>
> >> You can also use an app to give your cellular info, like Network Cell
> >> Info. There are lite and full versions. I paid the $2 to get the full
> >> version.
> >>
> >> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=network+cell+info+lite&c=apps
> >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfo
> >>
> >> You'll get far more info than you'll likely understand for a long time.
> >> One feature, map, will show to which cell tower the phone is connected.
> >> Possibly one phone connects to a different cell tower than the other
> >> phone, and distance causes signal attentuation as do obstructions
> >> between cell tower to phone. Both phones on the same cellular carrier
> >> does not mean both phones connect to the same cell tower.
> >
> > All very interesting, but no help really.
> > I'll just have to use the older phone at this one location.
>
> Ah, I see. You started the discussion, but it really wasn't important
> enough to even go into your phone's settings to check signal dBm while
> watching a commercial on TV.
>
> Someone else mentioned which bands your phones support. You could go to
> gsmarena.com to hunt down your phone to see which bands each phone
> supports. There are apps that will tell you, too.
>
> RF density may not be as homogenous as you think. I've seen where
> rocking in a chair or moving just a couple feet can affect signal

Sorry I started this.
I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2. In a particular
cafe which to be fair has reinforced concrete roof and brick walls with
big windows. When I open an app, I (mostly) get a message saying no
signal (do you want to play a game?)(I don't)
Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4 and gets a signal although
it is slow.
At this point both phones are sat side by side near a window.
When I move 10 feet outside (towards the sea ie away from any mast and
the concrete roof) the signal returns to both.
I expected better of my newer phone in identical conditions and simply
wondered if I could do anything about it, beyond eating somewhere else
and waiting until the end of my contract.

--
Jim the Geordie

On 9/5/2023 5:50 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Here, you can buy credit cards in several types of stores,
> e.g., for 15 or 50 Euro. They have a multi-digit confirmation
> number printed on them. You can pay the cards in cash.

Thank you for suggesting a specific non-identifiable credit card for paying
for apps, where I was assuming that's what Mr. VanguardLH was using.

The disadvantage of normal credit cards is that you create radioactive
waste which has to be guarded whereas with those cash cards, you do not.

> These cards are usually designed to pay for a service with a
> particular provider.

He didn't say what kind of credit card he was using though, so we don't
know if he made his phone radioactive or not - but if he's using his own
credit cards, he has to guard that phone forever to prevent leaks.

> I don't know much about those cards, but I guess you then
> could transfer the number to you creditor and he them might
> be able to gain a monetary benefit from it.

For that purpose, I'd recommend people donate to the developer rather than
they buy the app off the Google Play Store because of Google's cut.

> So, you might be able to pay via that number, and that number
> is not connected to you in an obvious matter.

Given there are plenty of free ad-free apps that are just as good as the
payware apps, it's my recommendation that people donate to the developers.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vrem.wifianalyzer
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubnt.usurvey
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manageengine.wifimonitor
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.etwok.netspotapp
--
regards,
Neil

Neil <neil@myschool.edu> wrote:
[...]

> Given there are plenty of free ad-free apps that are just as good as the
> payware apps, it's my recommendation that people donate to the developers.
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vrem.wifianalyzer
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubnt.usurvey
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manageengine.wifimonitor
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.etwok.netspotapp

'Arlen', can you *please* get a clue!? This thread isn't and never has
been about Wi-Fi, so all these apps you keep harping about are totally
irrelevant.

BTW, you can buy apps in the Play Store without *any* kind of
creditcard, but please don't let that fact get in the way of your
paranoia.

On 2023-09-05 10:08, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> In article <1t1rg47o0b6k9$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>
>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...

> Sorry I started this.
> I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2. In a particular
> cafe which to be fair has reinforced concrete roof and brick walls with
> big windows. When I open an app, I (mostly) get a message saying no
> signal (do you want to play a game?)(I don't)
> Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4 and gets a signal although
> it is slow.
> At this point both phones are sat side by side near a window.
> When I move 10 feet outside (towards the sea ie away from any mast and
> the concrete roof) the signal returns to both.
> I expected better of my newer phone in identical conditions and simply
> wondered if I could do anything about it, beyond eating somewhere else
> and waiting until the end of my contract.

But the thing is, very possibly they are not identical conditions,
because very possibly they are using different bands.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

In article <klp4rnFj14gU1@mid.individual.net>, robin_listas@es.invalid
says...
>
> On 2023-09-05 10:08, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> > In article <1t1rg47o0b6k9$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
> >>
> >> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
>
> > Sorry I started this.
> > I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2. In a particular
> > cafe which to be fair has reinforced concrete roof and brick walls with
> > big windows. When I open an app, I (mostly) get a message saying no
> > signal (do you want to play a game?)(I don't)
> > Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4 and gets a signal although
> > it is slow.
> > At this point both phones are sat side by side near a window.
> > When I move 10 feet outside (towards the sea ie away from any mast and
> > the concrete roof) the signal returns to both.
> > I expected better of my newer phone in identical conditions and simply
> > wondered if I could do anything about it, beyond eating somewhere else
> > and waiting until the end of my contract.
>
> But the thing is, very possibly they are not identical conditions,
> because very possibly they are using different bands.

Ah!
And is that something I can change?

--
Jim the Geordie