W10 Home 20H2
Build 19042.964

Has MS broken this?

I've got 2 friends with W10 Home laptops, and when you click on create
password recovery, nada.

One is a new off the shelf system I'm helping one friend to set up, the
other is a former W8 system I'm setting up for another friend. It's a
clean install of W10.

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Snowshed. wrote:
> W10 Home 20H2
> Build 19042.964
>
> Has MS broken this?
>
> I've got 2 friends with W10 Home laptops, and when you click on create
> password recovery, nada.
>
> One is a new off the shelf system I'm helping one friend to set up, the
> other is a former W8 system I'm setting up for another friend. It's a
> clean install of W10.
>

Bleepingcomputer says:

" Command Line:

You can also start the Forgotten Password Wizard
using the following command line command:

"C:\Windows\system32\rundll32.exe" keymgr.dll,PRShowSaveWizardExW
"

It checks for media first. If no floppy or USB key, it presents a
notification to that effect. Otherwise it runs and does the job
it is supposed to. It likely helps to be Administrator while
running that (whatever it's doing).

The output is a 1536 byte file ending in .psw and it might be
RSA2 encrypted inside. (That's the string I can see in HxD.)

The tool is a GUI tool, and for me, did not appear ready
to divulge secrets into the administrator command prompt window.
Running it that way, isn't helping. I'd hoped it would
whine about the missing USB key in the Command Prompt, but
no, it put up a toast on the screen.

Some texts refer to this as "floppy or USB stick", as if
the thing is relatively small and will fit on a floppy.
It does not seem to be a boot media. It did not format my
USB stick, and was merely happy to find a writable partition
to plop the 1536 byte file.

Summary: On 20H2 patched up, ran without fanfare and worked.
Output worked, to my 64GB USB key.

Paul

On 5/15/21 7:59 PM, Paul wrote:
> Snowshed. wrote:
>> W10 Home 20H2
>> Build 19042.964
>>
>> Has MS broken this?
>>
>> I've got 2 friends with W10 Home laptops, and when you click on create
>> password recovery, nada.
>>
>> One is a new off the shelf system I'm helping one friend to set up, the
>> other is a former W8 system I'm setting up for another friend. It's a
>> clean install of W10.
>>
>
> Bleepingcomputer says:
>
> " Command Line:
>
> You can also start the Forgotten Password Wizard
> using the following command line command:
>
> "C:\Windows\system32\rundll32.exe" keymgr.dll,PRShowSaveWizardExW
> "

In an old thread somewhere, I saw this mentioned. But with MS always
changing things, if the article is a year old or more, I take the
position it may not work.

> It checks for media first. If no floppy or USB key, it presents a
> notification to that effect. Otherwise it runs and does the job
> it is supposed to. It likely helps to be Administrator while
> running that (whatever it's doing).
>
> The output is a 1536 byte file ending in .psw and it might be
> RSA2 encrypted inside. (That's the string I can see in HxD.)
>
> The tool is a GUI tool, and for me, did not appear ready
> to divulge secrets into the administrator command prompt window.
> Running it that way, isn't helping. I'd hoped it would
> whine about the missing USB key in the Command Prompt, but
> no, it put up a toast on the screen.
>
> Some texts refer to this as "floppy or USB stick", as if
> the thing is relatively small and will fit on a floppy.
> It does not seem to be a boot media. It did not format my
> USB stick, and was merely happy to find a writable partition
> to plop the 1536 byte file.
>
> Summary: On 20H2 patched up, ran without fanfare and worked.
> Output worked, to my 64GB USB key.

Updated info...

I've been using 16 GB USB 2.0 thumb drives, and the gut feeling is
that's way more than you need. All are brand new, all are the same brand.

I tried creating the reset disk on 3 more 20H2 systems, fully updated.
I'll call them 3, 4, and 5. 1will be the new off the shelf system. 2
will be the used W8 system.

#3 had the same result, clicking on the link gave me nothing. I expected
the same from 4 and 5, but to my surprise, they worked fine! So I went
back to 3, and ikt worked.

I have no explanation for this.

Tomorrow, I'll try still another system, I'll call it 6, and see how
that works. Then back to #2. If it doesn't work, I'll try try the
command line idea.

I''ll post the results when it's done.

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/16/21 12:06 AM, Snowshed. wrote:
> On 5/15/21 7:59 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Snowshed. wrote:
>>> W10 Home 20H2
>>> Build 19042.964
>>>
>>> Has MS broken this?
>>>
>>> I've got 2 friends with W10 Home laptops, and when you click on create
>>> password recovery, nada.
>>>
>>> One is a new off the shelf system I'm helping one friend to set up, the
>>> other is a former W8 system I'm setting up for another friend. It's a
>>> clean install of W10.
>>>
>>
>> Bleepingcomputer says:
>>
>> " Command Line:
>>
>> You can also start the Forgotten Password Wizard
>> using the following command line command:
>>
>> "C:\Windows\system32\rundll32.exe" keymgr.dll,PRShowSaveWizardExW
>> "
>
> In an old thread somewhere, I saw this mentioned. But with MS always
> changing things, if the article is a year old or more, I take the
> position it may not work.
>
>> It checks for media first. If no floppy or USB key, it presents a
>> notification to that effect. Otherwise it runs and does the job
>> it is supposed to. It likely helps to be Administrator while
>> running that (whatever it's doing).
>>
>> The output is a 1536 byte file ending in .psw and it might be
>> RSA2 encrypted inside. (That's the string I can see in HxD.)
>>
>> The tool is a GUI tool, and for me, did not appear ready
>> to divulge secrets into the administrator command prompt window.
>> Running it that way, isn't helping. I'd hoped it would
>> whine about the missing USB key in the Command Prompt, but
>> no, it put up a toast on the screen.
>>
>> Some texts refer to this as "floppy or USB stick", as if
>> the thing is relatively small and will fit on a floppy.
>> It does not seem to be a boot media. It did not format my
>> USB stick, and was merely happy to find a writable partition
>> to plop the 1536 byte file.
>>
>> Summary: On 20H2 patched up, ran without fanfare and worked.
>> Output worked, to my 64GB USB key.
>
> Updated info...
>
> I've been using 16 GB USB 2.0 thumb drives, and the gut feeling is
> that's way more than you need. All are brand new, all are the same brand.
>
> I tried creating the reset disk on 3 more 20H2 systems, fully updated.
> I'll call them 3, 4, and 5. 1will be the new off the shelf system. 2
> will be the used W8 system.
>
> #3 had the same result, clicking on the link gave me nothing. I expected
> the same from 4 and 5, but to my surprise, they worked fine! So I went
> back to 3, and ikt worked.
>
> I have no explanation for this.
>
> Tomorrow, I'll try still another system, I'll call it 6, and see how
> that works. Then back to #2. If it doesn't work, I'll try try the
> command line idea.
>
> I''ll post the results when it's done.

It worked first time on 6. In this case, it's actually the Bootcamp
installation on my Mac Mini.

Went back to 2, and this time, it worked. The Wizard came right up.

I won't be able to try 1again until Tuesday at the earliest. I'll post
the result.

Current hypothesis: In some cases, it doesn't work the first time. But
after a cold boot, it seems to work.

I should add that 1&2 are Home, the others are Pro.

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Snowshed. wrote:
>
> It worked first time on 6. In this case, it's actually the Bootcamp
> installation on my Mac Mini.
>
> Went back to 2, and this time, it worked. The Wizard came right up.
>
> I won't be able to try 1again until Tuesday at the earliest. I'll post
> the result.
>
> Current hypothesis: In some cases, it doesn't work the first time. But
> after a cold boot, it seems to work.
>
> I should add that 1&2 are Home, the others are Pro.

I wonder if this is somehow related to an update installing
itself at the time.

I had a strange behavior in a VM here yesterday, I clicked the
"X" which should cause the machine to hibernate. There was no
notation of a problem. On startup, the machine failed to load.
I blew away the "saved state", forcing a cold boot, and was
greeted by a juggling balls install going on right at the
beginning. You would not think that the mechanical action
of freezing machine state and writing it out to disk, could
be affected by things the OS is doing, but apparently
that is the case. There is some stuff going on under the
covers that we're not told about. I know that there
have been issues in the past with "kernel files" and "VirtualBox",
so there is some monkey business going on.

Your password disk, it should involve reading the Registry,
and making that 1536 byte output file. There is really nothing
there that is complicated or system wide - it's a simple task
that only uses the registry.

Paul

On 5/16/21 5:51 PM, Paul wrote:
> Snowshed. wrote:
>>
>> It worked first time on 6. In this case, it's actually the Bootcamp
>> installation on my Mac Mini.
>>
>> Went back to 2, and this time, it worked. The Wizard came right up.
>>
>> I won't be able to try 1again until Tuesday at the earliest. I'll post
>> the result.
>>
>> Current hypothesis: In some cases, it doesn't work the first time. But
>> after a cold boot, it seems to work.
>>
>> I should add that 1&2 are Home, the others are Pro.
>
> I wonder if this is somehow related to an update installing
> itself at the time.

Given MS's addiction to updates rather than good testing, that might be
a possibililty.

Systems 3, 4, 5, & 6 are mine, 2 is one I will be giving to my friend,
one of the first things I do when I power the systems up, especially if
they've been shut down for awhile, is check he update situation. IF
there's a single one listed, it gets installed before I do anything else.

Transfer of data is the only think left to do on system 2 before giving
it to her.

> I had a strange behavior in a VM here yesterday, I clicked the
> "X" which should cause the machine to hibernate. There was no
> notation of a problem. On startup, the machine failed to load.
> I blew away the "saved state", forcing a cold boot, and was
> greeted by a juggling balls install going on right at the
> beginning. You would not think that the mechanical action
> of freezing machine state and writing it out to disk, could
> be affected by things the OS is doing, but apparently
> that is the case. There is some stuff going on under the
> covers that we're not told about. I know that there
> have been issues in the past with "kernel files" and "VirtualBox",
> so there is some monkey business going on.
>
> Your password disk, it should involve reading the Registry,
> and making that 1536 byte output file. There is really nothing
> there that is complicated or system wide - it's a simple task
> that only uses the registry.
>
> Paul
>

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/16/21 1:36 PM, Snowshed. wrote:
>
>
> On 5/16/21 12:06 AM, Snowshed. wrote:
>> On 5/15/21 7:59 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> Snowshed. wrote:
>>>> W10 Home 20H2
>>>> Build 19042.964
>>>>
>>>> Has MS broken this?
>>>>
>>>> I've got 2 friends with W10 Home laptops, and when you click on create
>>>> password recovery, nada.
>>>>
>>>> One is a new off the shelf system I'm helping one friend to set up, the
>>>> other is a former W8 system I'm setting up for another friend. It's a
>>>> clean install of W10.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bleepingcomputer says:
>>>
>>> " Command Line:
>>>
>>> You can also start the Forgotten Password Wizard
>>> using the following command line command:
>>>
>>> "C:\Windows\system32\rundll32.exe" keymgr.dll,PRShowSaveWizardExW
>>> "
>>
>> In an old thread somewhere, I saw this mentioned. But with MS always
>> changing things, if the article is a year old or more, I take the
>> position it may not work.
>>
>>> It checks for media first. If no floppy or USB key, it presents a
>>> notification to that effect. Otherwise it runs and does the job
>>> it is supposed to. It likely helps to be Administrator while
>>> running that (whatever it's doing).
>>>
>>> The output is a 1536 byte file ending in .psw and it might be
>>> RSA2 encrypted inside. (That's the string I can see in HxD.)
>>>
>>> The tool is a GUI tool, and for me, did not appear ready
>>> to divulge secrets into the administrator command prompt window.
>>> Running it that way, isn't helping. I'd hoped it would
>>> whine about the missing USB key in the Command Prompt, but
>>> no, it put up a toast on the screen.
>>>
>>> Some texts refer to this as "floppy or USB stick", as if
>>> the thing is relatively small and will fit on a floppy.
>>> It does not seem to be a boot media. It did not format my
>>> USB stick, and was merely happy to find a writable partition
>>> to plop the 1536 byte file.
>>>
>>> Summary: On 20H2 patched up, ran without fanfare and worked.
>>> Output worked, to my 64GB USB key.
>>
>> Updated info...
>>
>> I've been using 16 GB USB 2.0 thumb drives, and the gut feeling is
>> that's way more than you need. All are brand new, all are the same brand.
>>
>> I tried creating the reset disk on 3 more 20H2 systems, fully updated.
>> I'll call them 3, 4, and 5. 1will be the new off the shelf system. 2
>> will be the used W8 system.
>>
>> #3 had the same result, clicking on the link gave me nothing. I expected
>> the same from 4 and 5, but to my surprise, they worked fine! So I went
>> back to 3, and ikt worked.
>>
>> I have no explanation for this.
>>
>> Tomorrow, I'll try still another system, I'll call it 6, and see how
>> that works. Then back to #2. If it doesn't work, I'll try try the
>> command line idea.
>>
>> I''ll post the results when it's done.
>
> It worked first time on 6. In this case, it's actually the Bootcamp
> installation on my Mac Mini.
>
> Went back to 2, and this time, it worked. The Wizard came right up.
>
> I won't be able to try 1again until Tuesday at the earliest. I'll post
> the result.
>
> Current hypothesis: In some cases, it doesn't work the first time. But
> after a cold boot, it seems to work.
>
> I should add that 1&2 are Home, the others are Pro.

I wasn't able to get back to System 1 until yesterday. It's not mine,
and not in my possession.

And the password reset disk creation (USB thumb drive) didn't work. :-(

If all computers were in two categories, public (government in this
case) and private, this system is a government computer. It belongs to
the property owners association. It's going ot be used by the
treasurer, so I'm trying to set it up for no or minimal personal info on
the system, and making it as easy as possible to transfer to the next
treasurer.

Since there will be a new user at some point, and for some kind of
continuity, I created an MS account just for the treasurer's position.
The created local admin and standard user accounts.

My original plan was to remove the MS account from the computer, but not
cancel/close the account. You never know what MS will do in the future,
so I wanted to keep options open.

To my surprise, when I wanted to create the local admin password reset
drive, using the local admin account, I was asked for the MS account
password. I had created a PIN, and it asked for the PN (which I screwed
up dong! LOL), but no option to use the normal password! So I tried to
login to the MS account from the login screen, and again PIN only

Are both of these normal for W10 Home?

I'm going to have to get back with the treasurer to double check my
handwriting for the PIN.

Once I've squared away the PIN issue, I'll try the command line
suggestion you made using Administrator mode.

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Snowshed. wrote:
>
>
> On 5/16/21 1:36 PM, Snowshed. wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 5/16/21 12:06 AM, Snowshed. wrote:
>>> On 5/15/21 7:59 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> Snowshed. wrote:
>>>>> W10 Home 20H2
>>>>> Build 19042.964
>>>>>
>>>>> Has MS broken this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got 2 friends with W10 Home laptops, and when you click on create
>>>>> password recovery, nada.
>>>>>
>>>>> One is a new off the shelf system I'm helping one friend to set up,
>>>>> the
>>>>> other is a former W8 system I'm setting up for another friend. It's a
>>>>> clean install of W10.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bleepingcomputer says:
>>>>
>>>> " Command Line:
>>>>
>>>> You can also start the Forgotten Password Wizard
>>>> using the following command line command:
>>>>
>>>> "C:\Windows\system32\rundll32.exe" keymgr.dll,PRShowSaveWizardExW
>>>> "
>>>
>>> In an old thread somewhere, I saw this mentioned. But with MS always
>>> changing things, if the article is a year old or more, I take the
>>> position it may not work.
>>>
>>>> It checks for media first. If no floppy or USB key, it presents a
>>>> notification to that effect. Otherwise it runs and does the job
>>>> it is supposed to. It likely helps to be Administrator while
>>>> running that (whatever it's doing).
>>>>
>>>> The output is a 1536 byte file ending in .psw and it might be
>>>> RSA2 encrypted inside. (That's the string I can see in HxD.)
>>>>
>>>> The tool is a GUI tool, and for me, did not appear ready
>>>> to divulge secrets into the administrator command prompt window.
>>>> Running it that way, isn't helping. I'd hoped it would
>>>> whine about the missing USB key in the Command Prompt, but
>>>> no, it put up a toast on the screen.
>>>>
>>>> Some texts refer to this as "floppy or USB stick", as if
>>>> the thing is relatively small and will fit on a floppy.
>>>> It does not seem to be a boot media. It did not format my
>>>> USB stick, and was merely happy to find a writable partition
>>>> to plop the 1536 byte file.
>>>>
>>>> Summary: On 20H2 patched up, ran without fanfare and worked.
>>>> Output worked, to my 64GB USB key.
>>>
>>> Updated info...
>>>
>>> I've been using 16 GB USB 2.0 thumb drives, and the gut feeling is
>>> that's way more than you need. All are brand new, all are the same
>>> brand.
>>>
>>> I tried creating the reset disk on 3 more 20H2 systems, fully updated.
>>> I'll call them 3, 4, and 5. 1will be the new off the shelf system. 2
>>> will be the used W8 system.
>>>
>>> #3 had the same result, clicking on the link gave me nothing. I expected
>>> the same from 4 and 5, but to my surprise, they worked fine! So I went
>>> back to 3, and ikt worked.
>>>
>>> I have no explanation for this.
>>>
>>> Tomorrow, I'll try still another system, I'll call it 6, and see how
>>> that works. Then back to #2. If it doesn't work, I'll try try the
>>> command line idea.
>>>
>>> I''ll post the results when it's done.
>>
>> It worked first time on 6. In this case, it's actually the Bootcamp
>> installation on my Mac Mini.
>>
>> Went back to 2, and this time, it worked. The Wizard came right up.
>>
>> I won't be able to try 1again until Tuesday at the earliest. I'll post
>> the result.
>>
>> Current hypothesis: In some cases, it doesn't work the first time. But
>> after a cold boot, it seems to work.
>>
>> I should add that 1&2 are Home, the others are Pro.
>
> I wasn't able to get back to System 1 until yesterday. It's not mine,
> and not in my possession.
>
> And the password reset disk creation (USB thumb drive) didn't work. :-(
>
> If all computers were in two categories, public (government in this
> case) and private, this system is a government computer. It belongs to
> the property owners association. It's going ot be used by the
> treasurer, so I'm trying to set it up for no or minimal personal info on
> the system, and making it as easy as possible to transfer to the next
> treasurer.
>
> Since there will be a new user at some point, and for some kind of
> continuity, I created an MS account just for the treasurer's position.
> The created local admin and standard user accounts.
>
> My original plan was to remove the MS account from the computer, but not
> cancel/close the account. You never know what MS will do in the future,
> so I wanted to keep options open.
>
> To my surprise, when I wanted to create the local admin password reset
> drive, using the local admin account, I was asked for the MS account
> password. I had created a PIN, and it asked for the PN (which I screwed
> up dong! LOL), but no option to use the normal password! So I tried to
> login to the MS account from the login screen, and again PIN only
>
> Are both of these normal for W10 Home?
>
> I'm going to have to get back with the treasurer to double check my
> handwriting for the PIN.
>
> Once I've squared away the PIN issue, I'll try the command line
> suggestion you made using Administrator mode.

Maybe the disc can be used for more than one password ?

And they're checking whether the party in the wheelhouse
at the moment, should be doing this :-) If that person knows
all the passwords, they must be a Level 34 Wizard.

If two people had admin, and only one admin password was needed
to make a disc to reset all passwords, there could be "warfare"
on the machine. One of the guys at work was sent on such
a security course, and the course included exercises of the
"how fast can you tip over the other students machine" type. So
not only did you need to know security vulnerabilities
thoroughly, you also needed to be a fast typer :-)

Paul

On 5/27/21 12:01 PM, Paul wrote:
> Snowshed. wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 5/16/21 1:36 PM, Snowshed. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/16/21 12:06 AM, Snowshed. wrote:
>>>> On 5/15/21 7:59 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>>> Snowshed. wrote:

<snip>

>> Once I've squared away the PIN issue, I'll try the command line
>> suggestion you made using Administrator mode.
>
> Maybe the disc can be used for more than one password ?

I don't know.

I have one W10 Pro machine with multiple accounts, all local. This
system was a clean install, replacing W7 Ultimate.

I just tested my password recovery drive, and there was no option asking
which account to recover the password for. I only went to the point
where the system asked for the new password. I don't actually want to
change the password.

I then tried the recovery disk on the other local account, and it
operated exactly the same.

So I think, that for password recovery for a local account, it's using
the same idea as all the other password recovery programs out there, for
local accounts. But recovering the password for an MS account doesn't
even ask for a recovery disk, you have to log into your MS account.

I'll be working on the PIN issue later today.

<snip>

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/27/21 3:03 PM, Snowshed. wrote:
> On 5/27/21 12:01 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Snowshed. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/16/21 1:36 PM, Snowshed. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/16/21 12:06 AM, Snowshed. wrote:
>>>>> On 5/15/21 7:59 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>>>> Snowshed. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> Once I've squared away the PIN issue, I'll try the command line
>>> suggestion you made using Administrator mode.
>>
>> Maybe the disc can be used for more than one password ?
>
> I don't know.
>
> I have one W10 Pro machine with multiple accounts, all local. This
> system was a clean install, replacing W7 Ultimate.
>
> I just tested my password recovery drive, and there was no option asking
> which account to recover the password for. I only went to the point
> where the system asked for the new password. I don't actually want to
> change the password.
>
> I then tried the recovery disk on the other local account, and it
> operated exactly the same.
>
> So I think, that for password recovery for a local account, it's using
> the same idea as all the other password recovery programs out there, for
> local accounts. But recovering the password for an MS account doesn't
> even ask for a recovery disk, you have to log into your MS account.
>
> I'll be working on the PIN issue later today.

After getting the PIN issue resolved, the bleeping computer command line
solution worked.

Thanks for that solution.

This is more work than I've ever done with a W10 Home system. All I can
say is, I'm glad I don't use one. <G>

>
>
> <snip>
>

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Windows 10 20H2
Firefox 87.0
Thunderbird 60.9.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"