The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple
days, and two things (at least), happened.

In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
it, from other machines, as either

explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk

But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)
or on the other machines (physical or virtual).

If I use the nbtscan program, all the machines list
properly, all belong to WORKGROUP, the two Function
services are running. I don't know if there is a
Property or Registry setting somewhere, to "hide"
the machine somehow, or what's going on.

*******

The other mess, was the Bash shell seems to have been
a car-wreck. WSL seems to have turned itself off in
Windows Features. Upon enabling, it still didn't work,
which is understandable, as WSL2 is likely present now
in 21H1. I tried to "Reset" the "App" to reload it,
and only removing it entirely (losing all personalization
and starting over again) seemed to work.

I also get the impression, that the complicated networking
infrastructure they're using underneath (so hostID,
VirtualBox networking properties, 20H1 networking, all work),
might be "slightly broken".

I don't think my Insider installation was anywhere near borked
as hard as this "production" physical install is. The Insider
was actually in good shape at this point, whereas the real thing
is "messed up".

Now I don't have others symptoms, of massive disk activity,
frozen Firefox or other crap like that.

But as far as "utility" goes, I'm not particularly
pleased at the defects seen so far. For the amount of
time and effort spent on spinning this "tick box exercise",
it's not exactly a Sparkle Pony.

It's a good thing my bread and butter doesn't depend on
this working :-/ I'm still doing my doctors appointments
in the Windows 7 install, thank God.

Paul (proud owner of Deck Chair With Three Legs)

On 5/28/2021 8:15 PM, Paul wrote:
> It's a good thing my bread and butter doesn't depend on
> this working :-/ I'm still doing my doctors appointments
> in the Windows 7 install, thank God.
>
>    Paul (proud owner of Deck Chair With Three Legs)

You have my sympathy but not as much as the three-leg cat that has
joined our backyard crew. On the other hand, said cat doesn't need to
fool around with Win 10 so maybe honors are even.
--
Jeff Barnett

Paul wrote:

> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
> least), happened.

I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.

May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.

That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
better than constant trickle updates.

On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>> least), happened.
>
> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>
> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>
> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
> better than constant trickle updates.
>
Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
computers and have had no problems.

knuttle wrote:
> On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>> least), happened.
>>
>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>
>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>
>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>
> Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
> computers and have had no problems.

But this is normal for Microsoft.

The 21H1 as tested as the Insider version (on a separate
disk drive), that was fine. All the toys worked together,
no weirdness on networking at all. It just seemed to be
working at that point.

But Microsoft *never* releases exactly what it tests.
That was evident back in 10240, when the previews would
work, and the release was a flaming driver disaster.

They are not believers in convergence. They never take a
tested thing and just ship it. They have to mess around.
Even if you stop the machine at XXXXX.1 for a moment,
it's broken as received. There is the inevitable "initial patch"
that downloads and installs on top, like XXXXX.243, and that
never seems to fix the divergence in the XXXXX.1 .

There's something about their packaging model, how to
assemble a release, what component parts to use, that
seems to be broken.

*******

The Insider installs have been through a metric ton
of Upgrades, because that's what the thing is, is an
Upgrader test platform. The "release" stream items
they test there, seem to use a convergence model.
They're looking for issues before release.

The Insider installer work, where they made a lot of changes
to installers, that used to break the Insider. I've spent
*hours* on individual releases, tipping the stupid things
upright. I had to wait a couple months, until the necessary
ISO was released, to tip it upright the last time. This
is expected behavior, and I don't complain about that,
because it's all part of the package deal.

The problem is, when Microsoft sends that off to their
packaging team, "something happens". My release stream
install (as described in my posting), is an instance
of something where I'm using the features, to see
whether they work or not. For me, there was collateral
damage this time. My DataRAM RAMDisk install wasn't damaged
for a change. That's good. But the networking, something
has happened to that. It seems to take a lot longer than
normal to scan Network Neighborhood, whereas the third-party
nbtscan.exe can scan 192.168.1.0/24 in about five seconds or
so. This hints that something weird is happening, like
the "virtualized" 19043 running on the machine, is on
a different subnet than we think. There is a virtual
Ethernet adapter, if you look in Task Manager, you'll spot
that. There are now three network interfaces in mine
now, the "physical" GbE interface, a vEthernet caused by
the active usage of Hyper-V in 21H1, and the virtual Ethernet
adapter that Virtualbox uses.

There does not, to me, seem to be any way to so neatly
stealth the 21H1 machine. None of the other machines
can see it "by name". The icon does not appear. Yet,
accessing it either by name or by IP, works. This suggests
a change in one of the Function services (if it *only*
happened on the 21H1 machine). But other machines are
doing the same thing, which suggests there is something
in the protocol that says "Hi, I'm BoB, but by the way,
would you hide me so the user can't see me, thanks". That
is what seems to be happening. I've not applied any
GPEdit to that effect, if there is one, because I
don't believe in doing such things. I'm the exact
opposite, as I run File Explorer in the "most exposed"
mode, where all hidden items are shown, I can see
AppData folder and so on. File extensions are shown,
for security reasons (so you would not double click
a .scr by accident).

If they could make all this "material" work in the Insider,
as part of release test, why isn't my "production" install
as clean ???

Paul

I think the implied question would be...

"What, CONCISELY, is wrong with the current version?"

John Doe wrote:
> I think the implied question would be...
>
> "What, CONCISELY, is wrong with the current version?"

How would I magically know this ?

These are things I ran into, minutes after clicking
the button to enable it.

Paul

Paul wrote:
> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple
> days, and two things (at least), happened.
>
> In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
> listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
> it, from other machines, as either
>
>    explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
>    explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk
>
> But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
> window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)
> or on the other machines (physical or virtual).
>
Interesting. On one device of three, only one has been offered 21H1 and
installed.

If I access the 21H1 device via 20H2 in the Explorer/Network folder its
shows the correct 21H1 machine name
Vice versa on 21H1 the 20H2 device as expected shows the 20H2 name.

Aside from yours, there have been a sprinkling(probably more to come) with
networking needing admin intervention for devices and network printers.

....winston

....w¡ñ§±¤n wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple
>> days, and two things (at least), happened.
>>
>> In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
>> listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
>> it, from other machines, as either
>>
>> explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
>> explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk
>>
>> But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
>> window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)
>> or on the other machines (physical or virtual).
>>
> Interesting. On one device of three, only one has been offered 21H1 and
> installed.
>
> If I access the 21H1 device via 20H2 in the Explorer/Network folder its
> shows the correct 21H1 machine name
> Vice versa on 21H1 the 20H2 device as expected shows the 20H2 name.
>
> Aside from yours, there have been a sprinkling(probably more to come)
> with networking needing admin intervention for devices and network
> printers.
>
> ...winston

I looked at my 20H2 VBox VM a moment ago, and there's
no sign of 21H1 incoming. I have a suspicion it's blocked
because of "no HyperV" possible. I'm downloading an ISO
right now, and I'm going to force an install attempt,
and see what it says :-)

There's a whole bunch of install situations that need
to be tested, to build a map of "how the 21H1 OS works now".

*******

I checked the local computer store, thinking I could
pick up a couple drives for install, and... what a mess.
Nothing decent I can buy. I check that, because I hate
wasting hours and hours shifting stuff around so
I can "make myself a clean hard drive". An item in the
store says "In Stock", when there is one drive, and
it's located in Burnaby BC. Just a short two or three
day drive from the house :-)

Maybe my store is heading towards bankruptcy or something.
You never know these days. They used to be good at
stocking drives, one of the few things you could count on.

And it's not a Chia problem, as it's small drives that
are missing too. The store claims to have an 18TB drive,
for a cheep cheep $900 a piece. Enough to buy a whole computer.

Paul

On 5/29/2021 12:23 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤n wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple
>> days, and two things (at least), happened.
>>
>> In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
>> listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
>> it, from other machines, as either
>>
>>     explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
>>     explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk
>>
>> But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
>> window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)
>> or on the other machines (physical or virtual).
>>
> Interesting. On one device of three, only one has been offered 21H1 and
> installed.
>
> If I access the 21H1 device via 20H2 in the Explorer/Network folder its
> shows the correct 21H1 machine name
> Vice versa on 21H1 the 20H2 device as expected shows the 20H2 name.
>
> Aside from yours, there have been a sprinkling(probably more to come)
> with networking needing admin intervention for devices and network
> printers.
>
> ...winston
First I am a general user on the user update cycle, and do not get the
test version of

When 21h1 was not offered to my one computer, I became impatient and
went to the MS Update Assistant and updated with no problems.

On both computers, every thing was there at the end of the updates, all
network connections all data, and all programs worked as before update.
My McAfee security worked, with all permission in place

Paul wrote:

> In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
> listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
> it, from other machines, as either
>
>    explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
>    explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk
>
> But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
> window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)

Not an amazing amount of help to you, but my machine (with network
discovery enabled for private networks only) does see itself in Network
(not really neighbourhood any longer)

On Sat, 29 May 2021 06:35:09 -0400, knuttle
<keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>> least), happened.
>>
>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>
>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>
>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>
>Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
>computers and have had no problems.

As I have reported from time to time, I have Edge permanently turned
off and my computer set up to sleep and then to hibernate (or is it
the other way around?). Nearly every time I get an update the setting
for one or more of the above changes. (I sometimes also lose the fibre
link to my audo system.)

Until a few days ago my computer persisted in giving me Edgebut it
slept and hibernated as I wanted. Now with 21H1 Edge no longer appears
(hooray) but the computer neither sleeps nor hibernates. I can't be
bothered trying to find out why. It will change anyway with the next
update.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 5/29/2021 10:48 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
> On Sat, 29 May 2021 06:35:09 -0400, knuttle
> <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>>> least), happened.
>>>
>>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>>
>>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>>
>>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>>
>> Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
>> computers and have had no problems.
>
> As I have reported from time to time, I have Edge permanently turned
> off and my computer set up to sleep and then to hibernate (or is it
> the other way around?). Nearly every time I get an update the setting
> for one or more of the above changes. (I sometimes also lose the fibre
> link to my audo system.)
>
> Until a few days ago my computer persisted in giving me Edgebut it
> slept and hibernated as I wanted. Now with 21H1 Edge no longer appears
> (hooray) but the computer neither sleeps nor hibernates. I can't be
> bothered trying to find out why. It will change anyway with the next
> update.
>
I blocked Edge in my security software, so it can not access the
internet and do any thing

Eric Stevens wrote:
> On Sat, 29 May 2021 06:35:09 -0400, knuttle
> <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>>> least), happened.
>>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>>
>>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>>
>>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>>
>> Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
>> computers and have had no problems.
>
> As I have reported from time to time, I have Edge permanently turned
> off and my computer set up to sleep and then to hibernate (or is it
> the other way around?). Nearly every time I get an update the setting
> for one or more of the above changes. (I sometimes also lose the fibre
> link to my audo system.)
>
> Until a few days ago my computer persisted in giving me Edgebut it
> slept and hibernated as I wanted. Now with 21H1 Edge no longer appears
> (hooray) but the computer neither sleeps nor hibernates. I can't be
> bothered trying to find out why. It will change anyway with the next
> update.

Powercfg has various reports.

powercfg /availablesleepstates

( https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-powercfg-control-power-settings-windows-10 )

Paul

On Fri, 28 May 2021 22:15:03 -0400, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:

>In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
>listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
>it, from other machines, as either
>
> explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
> explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk
>
>But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
>window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)
>or on the other machines (physical or virtual).

I have a batch/cmd file for this that I run every night at midnight and
at any login as SYSTEM. Have needed to do so for several versions now
(since 1904?) to get my machine to show up. It is two lines:

>net stop FDResPub
>net start FDResPub

This restarts the "Function Discovery Resource Publication" service. I've
found since 1904 that you need to restart it once after the machine
boots. Doing it on login seems to do the trick.

On restart, the machine shows up in the network page in explorer.

Give it a shot.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 28 May 2021 22:15:03 -0400, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
> wrote:
>
>> In SMB/CIFS land, the "machine name" is no longer
>> listed in Network Neighborhood. I can still access
>> it, from other machines, as either
>>
>> explorer.exe \\192.168.1.3\somedisk
>> explorer.exe \\MachineName\somedisk
>>
>> But there's no "MachineName" listed in the Network
>> window, either on the machine itself (self-reference)
>> or on the other machines (physical or virtual).
>
> I have a batch/cmd file for this that I run every night at midnight and
> at any login as SYSTEM. Have needed to do so for several versions now
> (since 1904?) to get my machine to show up. It is two lines:
>
>> net stop FDResPub
>> net start FDResPub
>
> This restarts the "Function Discovery Resource Publication" service. I've
> found since 1904 that you need to restart it once after the machine
> boots. Doing it on login seems to do the trick.
>
> On restart, the machine shows up in the network page in explorer.
>
> Give it a shot.
>

Well, wouldn't you know it, when I boot up the 21H1 to check,
now it works. I gave it the "stop" and "start" anyway, and
both ends continue to show the errant machine.

I will continue to test, when I get back, and give it
another try. If this is a race condition between services,
maybe a delayed start on FDResPub will set it right ?
That's another possibility.

Paul

On Sun, 30 May 2021 10:15:52 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 May 2021 06:35:09 -0400, knuttle
>> <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>>>> least), happened.
>>>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>>>
>>>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>>>
>>>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>>>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>>>
>>> Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
>>> computers and have had no problems.
>>
>> As I have reported from time to time, I have Edge permanently turned
>> off and my computer set up to sleep and then to hibernate (or is it
>> the other way around?). Nearly every time I get an update the setting
>> for one or more of the above changes. (I sometimes also lose the fibre
>> link to my audo system.)
>>
>> Until a few days ago my computer persisted in giving me Edgebut it
>> slept and hibernated as I wanted. Now with 21H1 Edge no longer appears
>> (hooray) but the computer neither sleeps nor hibernates. I can't be
>> bothered trying to find out why. It will change anyway with the next
>> update.
>
>Powercfg has various reports.
>
> powercfg /availablesleepstates
>
>( https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-powercfg-control-power-settings-windows-10 )

I seem to remember using those at some stage. Atany rate, I haven't
changed the relevant settings for several years. I'm now content to
see hibernate/sleep come and go in their various forms. :-)
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:
> On Sun, 30 May 2021 10:15:52 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Eric Stevens wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 May 2021 06:35:09 -0400, knuttle
>>> <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>>>>> least), happened.
>>>>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>>>>
>>>>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>>>>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>>>>
>>>> Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
>>>> computers and have had no problems.
>>> As I have reported from time to time, I have Edge permanently turned
>>> off and my computer set up to sleep and then to hibernate (or is it
>>> the other way around?). Nearly every time I get an update the setting
>>> for one or more of the above changes. (I sometimes also lose the fibre
>>> link to my audo system.)
>>>
>>> Until a few days ago my computer persisted in giving me Edgebut it
>>> slept and hibernated as I wanted. Now with 21H1 Edge no longer appears
>>> (hooray) but the computer neither sleeps nor hibernates. I can't be
>>> bothered trying to find out why. It will change anyway with the next
>>> update.
>> Powercfg has various reports.
>>
>> powercfg /availablesleepstates
>>
>> ( https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-powercfg-control-power-settings-windows-10 )
>
> I seem to remember using those at some stage. Atany rate, I haven't
> changed the relevant settings for several years. I'm now content to
> see hibernate/sleep come and go in their various forms. :-)

Well, one of the powercfg "features", can tell you what
"blocks" the power state you want. That's why I wanted you
to open an admin Powershell and give it a try.

And one of the reasons for Microsoft to write helpful code like
this, is Apple did it first :-)

Paul

On Sun, 30 May 2021 23:41:14 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 10:15:52 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 May 2021 06:35:09 -0400, knuttle
>>>> <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/29/2021 4:55 AM, John Doe wrote:
>>>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 21H1 intruded here in the last couple days, and two things (at
>>>>>>> least), happened.
>>>>>> I have 20H2 with updates postponed until 2021-06-19.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May as well postpone updates far as possible after every required update.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's easy to do. Of course you might hit it at the wrong time, but it's
>>>>>> better than constant trickle updates.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Contrary to what has been said about 21h1, I have installed it on two
>>>>> computers and have had no problems.
>>>> As I have reported from time to time, I have Edge permanently turned
>>>> off and my computer set up to sleep and then to hibernate (or is it
>>>> the other way around?). Nearly every time I get an update the setting
>>>> for one or more of the above changes. (I sometimes also lose the fibre
>>>> link to my audo system.)
>>>>
>>>> Until a few days ago my computer persisted in giving me Edgebut it
>>>> slept and hibernated as I wanted. Now with 21H1 Edge no longer appears
>>>> (hooray) but the computer neither sleeps nor hibernates. I can't be
>>>> bothered trying to find out why. It will change anyway with the next
>>>> update.
>>> Powercfg has various reports.
>>>
>>> powercfg /availablesleepstates
>>>
>>> ( https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-powercfg-control-power-settings-windows-10 )
>>
>> I seem to remember using those at some stage. Atany rate, I haven't
>> changed the relevant settings for several years. I'm now content to
>> see hibernate/sleep come and go in their various forms. :-)
>
>Well, one of the powercfg "features", can tell you what
>"blocks" the power state you want. That's why I wanted you
>to open an admin Powershell and give it a try.

You gave me the same advice when I first mentioned these problems some
years ago. At that time I could not get the machine to shut down of
it's own accord. None of the obvious suspects were present that I
could see and then I got another update and suddenly everything worked
properly. I haven't tried it again since.

Whoops!

I've just had an update to 21H1 build 120.2212.2020.0

Let's see what the future holds.
>
>And one of the reasons for Microsoft to write helpful code like
>this, is Apple did it first :-)
>
> Paul
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens