On 2023-10-23 17:10, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 10/23/23 7:48 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-23 16:38, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
>>> time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time.  I do it afterward, but sometimes I want
>>> to leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time
>>> shown leaves the local time unknown.  I suppose if somebody goes in
>>> and LOOKS at the exifdata they could determine the local
>>> time/location, but hardly anybody is going to do that.  I just want
>>> to be able to show somebody that THIS is what THAT looked like at the
>>> actual local time I took the photo.
>>>
>>> I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(
>>
>> Software for classification/organizing of photos (in Linux, think
>> digikam or shotwell) do look at the exif data primarily. And I can tell
>> you that they work better if the photos use UTC time instead of local,
>> specially if you travel.
>>
>> It is also a pain if you have several cameras and forget to adjust
>> summer/winter time in one of them, then try to organize all those photos
>> of a single event.
>
> I did that on a multi-week trip to Utah.  Phone camera (Motorola) used
> local time, camera used CALIFORNIA local time because I forgot to reset
> it.  I didn't notice this until too late when I had lumped all the
> photos together and was editing them.  Not all that important in the
> great scheme of things, of course, but I WANTED a proper sequence :-(
>

Exactly. The only way to avoid those errors is to use UTC for all
timestamps in the cameras memory cards. Linux does that (inexact, but
suffices). Then you do not have to worry ever again about time zones or
summer time shift.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:07:00 +0100, Bob Henson wrote:
>
> On 22.10.23 11:39 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
> > On 10/22/23 1:14 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
> >> On 22.10.23 8:10 am, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> >
> >>> GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
> >>
> >> Changed to suit people who hate to give credit to Britain for
> >> standardising something, probably assisted by those who just have to
> >> change things for changes sake.
> >
> > Or sometimes for greater efficiency -- like removing Us from words where
> > they aren't actually needed.
> >
>
> That's exactly what I meant by change for changes sake. The words are
> fine with the "U"s in and we've never had any difficulty spelling them,
> so any change is pointless and futile.

Well, for some value of "never".

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_
differences#Latin-derived_spellings_(often_through_Romance)>

indicates that English spelling originally used -or, Shakespeare used
-or and -our, and Samuel Johnson standardized on -our. Webster in
the US standardized on -or.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 23.10.23 16:38, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 10/22/23 10:48 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Does this howtogeek-link help? I did not try it.
>>
>> https://www.howtogeek.com/302672/how-to-view-and-edit-photo-exif-data-on-android/
>
> Useful information. jhead (windows, linux, probably apple but who
> cares) will allow various forms of editing, but I just use it to change
> the filename. I am ashamed to say I stop when I figure out how to do
> what I need to do rather than mastering a subject.
>
> What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
> time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want to
> leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time shown
> leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in and LOOKS
> at the exifdata they could determine the local time/location, but hardly
> anybody is going to do that. I just want to be able to show somebody
> that THIS is what THAT looked like at the actual local time I took the
> photo.
>
> I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(

Probably. There are also advantages to leave it as it is.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
> We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and
> it was very nice.
>

Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_Sta
tes>

"During the 1973 oil embargo by the Organization of Arab Petroleum
Exporting Countries (OAPEC), in an effort to conserve fuel, Congress
enacted a trial period of year-round DST (P.L. 93-182), beginning
January 6, 1974, and ending April 27, 1975. The trial was hotly
debated. Those in favor pointed to increased daylight hours in the
summer evening: more time for recreation, reduced lighting and
heating demands, reduced crime, and reduced automobile accidents. The
opposition was concerned about children leaving for school in the
dark and the construction industry was concerned about morning
accidents. After several morning traffic accidents involving
schoolchildren in Florida, including eight children who were killed,
Governor Reubin Askew asked for the year-round law to be repealed.

"Over three months from December to March, public support dropped
from 79% to 42%. Some schools moved their start times later. Shortly
after the end of the Watergate scandal caused a change of
administration, the act was amended in October 1974 (P.L. 93-434) to
return to standard time for four months, beginning October 27, 1974,
and ending February 23, 1975, when DST resumed. When the trial ended
in October 1975, the country returned to observing summer DST (with
the aforementioned exceptions)."

There was nothing in that article about "double" or "two hour" --
both search terms (without quotes) came up empty.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 23 Oct 2023 14:07:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > [quoted text muted]
> > > GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
> > > BST which is GMT+1.
> >
> > Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
>
> Well, very recently, *you* used it! :-) [1]
>
> > On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>

No that was a quote of the time information in your article. I think
that should be numerics with a + or - sign (in my case -0700, as
indeed Gravity generates). I'm not familiar enough with the standard
to say that GMT is wrong in an article's timestamp, but it's
certainly inconsistent.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 22/10/2023 11:20, Chris wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
>
> It's been superseded by UTC, yes, but many still use GMT to mean UTC.
> Especially in the UK. They are synonymous.
>
> However, it doesn't change the fact that your assertion that GMT changes
> with the clocks in the summer is categorically wrong.

GMT and UTC are two slightly different things.

GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) is the mean solar time at the Royal
Observatory in Greenwich, London.

UTC is based on atomic time with leap seconds inserted when convenient
so that the difference between GMT and UTC is no more than around 1 second.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 23/10/2023 11:30, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 23 Oct 2023 10:30:20 +0100 Chris in Makati wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
>> sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
>
> The sun is never _directly_ overhead at Greenwich ;)

He means directly South. :-)

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 23/10/2023 14:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Even if you define it as the instant the sun is that the exact south,
> there is a yearly variance to one side or the other; I think it is up to
> about 16 minutes. So the definition of UTC uses the word "average".

You mean the definition of GMT.
UTC is defined by atomic time.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 23/10/2023 15:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-23 15:24, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
>>> GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
>>> sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
>>
>> It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
>> professional life or applications anymore.
>>
>
> That is not correct. It has the same relevance as CEST time.
>

I think mean solar time (like GMT) is still used by astronomers, though
maybe only in the calculation of other things like sidereal time.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 21/10/2023 23:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-22 00:13, Tony Mountifield wrote:
>> In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-10-21 23:56, Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>
>>> Still, UTC ≠ GMT
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
> ...
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Mean_Time
>
>
>>
>> OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday practical
>> usage, they are the same.
>
> It appears so, but I'm not sure if they could differ at some point.
>

Leap seconds are inserted into UTC when convenient to keep the
difference between UTC and GMT to no more than about 0.9 seconds.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

The Real Bev, 2023-10-21 18:27:

> The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
> PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local

Well, I would prefer it this way, so there would not be any confusion,
which timezone applies to that date.

More interesting is what the EXIF data says. In my case the Pixel 6a
also uses UTC for the filename but records local time in the EXIF data.
So EXIF will tell you the local time but the filename is based on UTC.

And no, I don't think there is a setting to change that. The way how the
filenames are generated are based on the Camera-Library provided by
Google which is used by the native Google Camera but also many vendor
specific camera apps.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 22/10/2023 11:31, Chris wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Am 21.10.23 um 23:57 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
>>> In article <uh1fkp$1vfju$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>> Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
>>>>> In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
>>>>> <hugybear@gmx.net> writes
>>>>>> Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>>>>>> The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
>>>>>>> PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
>>>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
>>>>>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
>>>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
>>>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
>>>>>> (Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Zulu is GMT
>>>>
>>>> For people who do not understand the concept:
>>>>
>>>> Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
>>>
>>> Wrong; it is also GMT. See my other more detailed post.
>>
>> Whether you like it or not: It is different.
>> Very much so. Guess why in 1972 UTC was introduced.
>
> A desire to move away from a geographic name. Greenwich makes no sense to
> most of the world. It is also impossible to pronounce by some.
>
> For most purposes GMT/UTC can be used interchangeably.
>
> I'd love to know why you think it is "very much" different. In your words,
> not a copy pasted wp article.
>

GMT is mean solar time based on the sun's position in the sky.

UTC is based on atomic time with leap seconds inserted when most
convenient to keep the difference under about 0.9 seconds.

So for many purposes they are the same, but there is still an important
difference.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Carlos E. R., 2023-10-22 01:17:

> On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
>
> ...
>
>>> No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
>>> Never tried on my Pixel.
>>
>> I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the
>> computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day.
>
> I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.

Why? The clock of a digital camera can just be set to UTC.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 23 Oct 2023 14:07:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > > [quoted text muted]
> > > > GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
> > > > BST which is GMT+1.
> > >
> > > Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
> >
> > Well, very recently, *you* used it! :-) [1]
> >
> > > On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> No that was a quote of the time information in your article. I think
> that should be numerics with a + or - sign (in my case -0700, as
> indeed Gravity generates). I'm not familiar enough with the standard
> to say that GMT is wrong in an article's timestamp, but it's
> certainly inconsistent.

Ah! Thanks!

I thought you had lost the plot! :-) But you are right.

Here is what happened (and still happens):

In my 'posted' file, the header of my article is

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 12:43:04 -0000

i.e, the correct 'new' format.

But I run a personal local news server (Hamster), so the post from my
newsreader goes to Hamster, which later posts it to the 'real' news
server (News.Individual.Net, the same as you use). Apparently it goes
wrong in that latter phase, because the article as it is on the real
news server has

Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT

i.e. 'incorrect' format.

Probably Hamster is the culprit and there's probably little I can do
about it, because Hamster is very old software, which I want/have to
keep using.

Thanks again.

On 10/23/23 7:38 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 10/22/23 10:48 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 23.10.23 um 00:41 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>> On 10/22/23 3:26 AM, Chris wrote:
>>>> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
>>>>>>>> Zulu is GMT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Definitely wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> During DST GMT is Zulu +1
>>>>>>> GMT is Zulu during winter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
>>>>>> BST which is GMT+1.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
>>>>
>>>> Officially, yes, but colloquially it's used interchangeably with UTC. Such
>>>> as the OP.
>>>
>>> Indeed. And all I wanted to know was how to make the date generated by
>>> my camera app match my local time :-(
>>
>> Does this howtogeek-link help? I did not try it.
>>
>> https://www.howtogeek.com/302672/how-to-view-and-edit-photo-exif-data-on-android/
>
> Useful information. jhead (windows, linux, probably apple but who
> cares) will allow various forms of editing, but I just use it to change
> the filename. I am ashamed to say I stop when I figure out how to do
> what I need to do rather than mastering a subject.
>
> What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
> time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want to
> leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time shown
> leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in and LOOKS
> at the exifdata they could determine the local time/location, but hardly
> anybody is going to do that. I just want to be able to show somebody
> that THIS is what THAT looked like at the actual local time I took the
> photo.
>
> I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(

No shit. I just hauled out exiftool, which clearly shows the actual
local time I took the shot along with LOTS of useless stuff. Later on
it gives an "offset" of -7.

Create Date : 2023:10:22 15:11:54
Offset Time : -07:00
Offset Time Original : -07:00
Offset Time Digitized : -07:00

As long as that's in there I'm going to stop fretting. I'll just change
the filename and let the recipients worry about the internals.

--
Cheers, Bev
I'd tell you a UDP joke, but you might not get it.
-- K.E. Long

On 22/10/2023 16:29, jetjock wrote:
> UTC is essentially based upon the timing of solar noon at 0 degrees
> longitude (the so-called "prime meridian"), similar to GMT. However,
> in the case of UTC the time is fine-tuned based upon a much more
> accurate atomic clock. It’s not perfect, however. As the earth’s
> rotation slows ever so slightly, leap seconds need to be added here
> and there. That’s in order to keep the time within close range of
> what’s known as UT1- a variant of universal time based upon the true
> solar time. That solar time is constant, but the earth’s rotation is
> imperfect, hence the need for the leap seconds. If your curiosity is
> piqued, head here
> http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/~tcs3/tcs3/Misc/slalib_html/node219.html
> for more specifics on all that.

That sounds a little confused.
How can solar time be constant while being based on the imperfect earths
rotation. Basically it can't.

GMT is mean solar time. AFAIK it has to be estimated by watching (and
understanding the significance of) the position of the sun in the sky.

UT1 is the same but based on atomic time but specified by an offset from
UTC. I think it's always within 0.1 second of UTC but I'm not sure.

UTC is based on atomic time but with leap seconds inserted to keep the
difference between GMT and UTC under around 0.9 seconds.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 21/10/2023 22:28, The Real Bev wrote:
> Are you sure?  What I just read indicates Zulu = UTC = GMT.

For many and most purposes they are the same.
The maximum difference is under 1 second.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 10/23/23 9:49 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>> We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and
>> it was very nice.
>>
>
> Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
> we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
> recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_Sta
> tes>
>
> "During the 1973 oil embargo by the Organization of Arab Petroleum
> Exporting Countries (OAPEC), in an effort to conserve fuel, Congress
> enacted a trial period of year-round DST (P.L. 93-182), beginning
> January 6, 1974, and ending April 27, 1975. The trial was hotly
> debated. Those in favor pointed to increased daylight hours in the
> summer evening: more time for recreation, reduced lighting and
> heating demands, reduced crime, and reduced automobile accidents. The
> opposition was concerned about children leaving for school in the
> dark and the construction industry was concerned about morning
> accidents. After several morning traffic accidents involving
> schoolchildren in Florida, including eight children who were killed,
> Governor Reubin Askew asked for the year-round law to be repealed.
>
> "Over three months from December to March, public support dropped
> from 79% to 42%. Some schools moved their start times later. Shortly
> after the end of the Watergate scandal caused a change of
> administration, the act was amended in October 1974 (P.L. 93-434) to
> return to standard time for four months, beginning October 27, 1974,
> and ending February 23, 1975, when DST resumed. When the trial ended
> in October 1975, the country returned to observing summer DST (with
> the aforementioned exceptions)."
>
> There was nothing in that article about "double" or "two hour" --
> both search terms (without quotes) came up empty.

I stand corrected. I must have just been really happy about leaving DST
on all year.

I'm really glad I wasn't working then and didn't need to buy much gas.
It got so that if people saw a short line they'd dive into it even if
they only needed a few gallons. I got bashed by such a woman cutting
across several lanes of traffic for that purpose.

Her insurance refused to pay so I sued her in small claims court.
Imagine my joy when she informed the court that she had no idea why we
were all there because MY insurance company had already paid HER off.
Magistrate found for her -- experts had already decided who was at fault.

My insurance company didn't even tell me she'd filed a claim, they just
took her word for it and paid her off. I switched companies at the next
opportunity. NEVER allow a Magistrate (or other non-judge) to judge
your case if it involves any thought whatsoever.

--
Cheers, Bev
I'd tell you a UDP joke, but you might not get it.
-- K.E. Long

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/10/2023 11:31, Chris wrote:
>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>>> Am 21.10.23 um 23:57 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
>>>> In article <uh1fkp$1vfju$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>> Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
>>>>>> In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
>>>>>> <hugybear@gmx.net> writes
>>>>>>> Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>>>>>>> The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
>>>>>>>> PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
>>>>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
>>>>>>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
>>>>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
>>>>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
>>>>>>> (Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zulu is GMT
>>>>>
>>>>> For people who do not understand the concept:
>>>>>
>>>>> Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong; it is also GMT. See my other more detailed post.
>>>
>>> Whether you like it or not: It is different.
>>> Very much so. Guess why in 1972 UTC was introduced.
>>
>> A desire to move away from a geographic name. Greenwich makes no sense to
>> most of the world. It is also impossible to pronounce by some.
>>
>> For most purposes GMT/UTC can be used interchangeably.
>>
>> I'd love to know why you think it is "very much" different. In your words,
>> not a copy pasted wp article.
>>
>
> GMT is mean solar time based on the sun's position in the sky.
>
> UTC is based on atomic time with leap seconds inserted when most
> convenient to keep the difference under about 0.9 seconds.
>
> So for many purposes they are the same, but there is still an important
> difference.

I accept that, but I was hoping that Joerg, the authority on GMT and how it
changes between summer and winter, could explain it himself.

On 23/10/2023 19:49, Chris wrote:
> I accept that, but I was hoping that Joerg, the authority on GMT and how it
> changes between summer and winter, could explain it himself.

He's in my killfile for a reason.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 10/23/23 8:44 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
>> PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
>
> I've read all the many responses in this thread and thought to do some
> investigation.
>
> After some sidetracks, I looked at *my* camera app (Samsung) and see
> that that camera app *does* create filenames in local time:
>
> 20231023_172403.jpg (it was 17:24, local Dutch time)
>
> I.e. exactly like you want them, even with only full seconds.
>
> So perhaps it's worth you while to consider to look at other (real?
> :-)) camera apps.

I tried several others for various reasons. There was always ONE thing
I liked better than the Pixel, but more that I disliked. I finally just
got tired of testing.

> [Rewind/repeat:]
>
>> I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo.
>
> I don't consider a name change of the *file* to be a non-untouched
> *photo*. If you - like me - consider a name in local time to be better,
> more accurate, <whatever>, then I don't see fixing that as "touching"
> the photo.

That probably counts as access time, which is a 'touch'. I should look.
I know linux keeps track of that... Not going to worry about this any
more -- explanation in different post.

> As others have mentioned, the name is just a name. Other cameras -
> like my real camera - use names which do not have a date/time in them,
> i.e. for example DSC_1342.JPG.
>
> HTH.
>
> BTW, Windows says my timezone is "UTC +1:00"! :-)

Ah, a foreigner :-)

It really bothers me that foreigners speak English better than most of
the 'Murkan native-born. Idioms too.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."

-- B. Ward

On 10/23/23 11:55 AM, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 23/10/2023 19:49, Chris wrote:
>> I accept that, but I was hoping that Joerg, the authority on GMT and how it
>> changes between summer and winter, could explain it himself.
>
> He's in my killfile for a reason.

I've only killfiled two people. One is RS and the other is a genuine
loon who has been carrying on a flame war (now pretty much alone) since
1999. He complains about death threats too. Wondering how he can still
be alive in the midst of all these killers is also considered a death
threat.

Thunderbird makes it easy to just ignore people you want to avoid.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."

-- B. Ward

On 2023-10-23 20:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

....

> Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT
>
> i.e. 'incorrect' format.

I just looked in the "advanced config" editor of Thunderbird, to see
what I can find.

mailnews.display.date_senders_timezone

default is false, I just set it to true. Now when I set the focus on
your email, it says at the right of the header panel 18:09 +0000, and
for Stan it says 09:54 -0700

But in the list of emails panels it says 20:09 and 18:54, which are
probably my local time.

I don't see where to change the format of the first line, the "On date,
name wrote"

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-10-23 19:46, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 23/10/2023 14:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Even if you define it as the instant the sun is that the exact south,
>> there is a yearly variance to one side or the other; I think it is up
>> to about 16 minutes. So the definition of UTC uses the word "average".
>
> You mean the definition of GMT.
> UTC is defined by atomic time.

Yes, I meant GMT, it was a typo.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-10-23 19:49, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 23/10/2023 15:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-23 15:24, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
>>>> GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
>>>> sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
>>>
>>> It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
>>> professional life or applications anymore.
>>>
>>
>> That is not correct. It has the same relevance as CEST time.
>>
>
> I think mean solar time (like GMT) is still used by astronomers, though
> maybe only in the calculation of other things like sidereal time.

Telescopes have a "clockwork" mechanism to counter the rotation of the
earth, so they adjust by the true rotation of the earth, not an atomic
clock.

Of course, currently (since two decades ago?) telescopes fixate the
position by a computer examining a real time photo of the sky,
compensating the speed of the motors slightly for things like the gears
not being absolutely exact.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.