Android 13 (as MIUI 14, so there may be differences).

Can anyone clarify battery usage of apps? When looking under Settings
recently, I noticed several apps using the battery. Very few were being
used actively at the time. The worst offender was Firefox (v119.1.1),
using about 25% of the battery.

I just checked again and according to Settings | Battery, FF is now
using 94.1%! However, if I look at App Info | Firefox, that tells me FF
battery usage is 52.5%. Note, though, that I'm not using FF for
anything. A couple of hours ago I was using it, but I closed it (square
symbol and swipe off screen). I force closed it from the settings app
manager, but it made no difference. Then I switched the phone off and on
again. No difference. Finally I rebooted the phone. Battery usage by FF
is now at 40%, and some other apps are using a very small amount,
although I hadn't turned them on today at all.

Is there a simple explanation for this? I would expect that only very
few apps should be using the battery when the phone is off, such as
those checking for a phone call, message checking for SMS/MMS, my email
app checking for emails (this is the only app I have with "Background
autostart" selected), and a few system apps needed to run those apps and
checking the battery status to let me know if the battery needs recharging.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

> Can anyone clarify battery usage of apps?

I think there's a lot of guesswork going on by android.

The only two (non-system) apps that I allow to run "unrestricted" in the
background are k9-mail which is on IMAP/PUSH to minimise delays, and my
banking app so that it can pop-up confirmation prompts for online purchases.

firefox isn't very high up my battery usage list (2% battery and only a
few minutes screen time, less than a minute background) what times does
your firefox show?

On 24/11/2023 09:59, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
> Android 13 (as MIUI 14, so there may be differences).
>
> Can anyone clarify battery usage of apps? When looking under Settings
> recently, I noticed several apps using the battery. Very few were being
> used actively at the time. The worst offender was Firefox (v119.1.1),
> using about 25% of the battery.
>
> I just checked again and according to Settings | Battery, FF is now
> using 94.1%! However, if I look at App Info | Firefox, that tells me FF
> battery usage is 52.5%. Note, though, that I'm not using FF for
> anything. A couple of hours ago I was using it, but I closed it (square
> symbol and swipe off screen). I force closed it from the settings app
> manager, but it made no difference. Then I switched the phone off and on
> again. No difference. Finally I rebooted the phone. Battery usage by FF
> is now at 40%, and some other apps are using a very small amount,
> although I hadn't turned them on today at all.
>
> Is there a simple explanation for this? I would expect that only very
> few apps should be using the battery when the phone is off, such as
> those checking for a phone call, message checking for SMS/MMS, my email
> app checking for emails (this is the only app I have with "Background
> autostart" selected), and a few system apps needed to run those apps and
> checking the battery status to let me know if the battery needs recharging.

Some of the above discrepancies may be the difference between cumulative
use and current moment-in-time use, but I'm not sufficiently well versed
in Android to know which path to information might be showing which
possible figure.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 2023-11-24 10:59, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Android 13 (as MIUI 14, so there may be differences).
>
> Can anyone clarify battery usage of apps? When looking under Settings
> recently, I noticed several apps using the battery. Very few were being
> used actively at the time. The worst offender was Firefox (v119.1.1),
> using about 25% of the battery.
>
> I just checked again and according to Settings | Battery, FF is now
> using 94.1%! However, if I look at App Info | Firefox, that tells me FF
> battery usage is 52.5%. Note, though, that I'm not using FF for
> anything. A couple of hours ago I was using it, but I closed it (square
> symbol and swipe off screen). I force closed it from the settings app
> manager, but it made no difference. Then I switched the phone off and on
> again. No difference. Finally I rebooted the phone. Battery usage by FF
> is now at 40%, and some other apps are using a very small amount,
> although I hadn't turned them on today at all.
>
> Is there a simple explanation for this? I would expect that only very
> few apps should be using the battery when the phone is off, such as
> those checking for a phone call, message checking for SMS/MMS, my email
> app checking for emails (this is the only app I have with "Background
> autostart" selected), and a few system apps needed to run those apps and
> checking the battery status to let me know if the battery needs recharging.

I ave never seen FF use that lot of battery, not even close. It would
indicate an ineffective CPU at running FF, maybe.

Theoretically, FF might use battery in the background if there is a page
that has to do something in the background, like keeping updated every
second. Not only that, bur running page code, javascript.

Maybe a page with a terrible design.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 24/11/2023 10:29, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> Can anyone clarify battery usage of apps?
>
> I think there's a lot of guesswork going on by android.
>
> The only two (non-system) apps that I allow to run "unrestricted" in the
> background are k9-mail which is on IMAP/PUSH to minimise delays, and my
> banking app so that it can pop-up confirmation prompts for online purchases.
>
> firefox isn't very high up my battery usage list (2% battery and only a
> few minutes screen time, less than a minute background) what times does
> your firefox show?

Excuse my ignorance, but I assume that's somewhere in the "Settings".
Unfortunately I don't know where to find it. It wasn't under "Display",
and I couldn't see it in any of the app menus.

--

Jeff

On 24/11/2023 11:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-24 10:59, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> Android 13 (as MIUI 14, so there may be differences).
>>
>> Can anyone clarify battery usage of apps? When looking under Settings
>> recently, I noticed several apps using the battery. Very few were being
>> used actively at the time. The worst offender was Firefox (v119.1.1),
>> using about 25% of the battery.
>>
>> I just checked again and according to Settings | Battery, FF is now
>> using 94.1%! However, if I look at App Info | Firefox, that tells me FF
>> battery usage is 52.5%. Note, though, that I'm not using FF for
>> anything. A couple of hours ago I was using it, but I closed it (square
>> symbol and swipe off screen). I force closed it from the settings app
>> manager, but it made no difference. Then I switched the phone off and on
>> again. No difference. Finally I rebooted the phone. Battery usage by FF
>> is now at 40%, and some other apps are using a very small amount,
>> although I hadn't turned them on today at all.
>>
>> Is there a simple explanation for this? I would expect that only very
>> few apps should be using the battery when the phone is off, such as
>> those checking for a phone call, message checking for SMS/MMS, my email
>> app checking for emails (this is the only app I have with "Background
>> autostart" selected), and a few system apps needed to run those apps and
>> checking the battery status to let me know if the battery needs recharging.
>
> I ave never seen FF use that lot of battery, not even close. It would
> indicate an ineffective CPU at running FF, maybe.
>
> Theoretically, FF might use battery in the background if there is a page
> that has to do something in the background, like keeping updated every
> second. Not only that, bur running page code, javascript.
>
> Maybe a page with a terrible design.

I had turned FF off (as far as I knew), so there shouldn't be any
background page running. I just switched the phone on after not using it
for two hours, and FF was still there using about 25% of the battery.

As it's my default browser, I wondered if some other app was calling it.
For example, I use it for BBC iPlayer as I won't allow that to use
Chrome. I just changed the default browser to Vivaldi, and allowed
iPlayer to call it. It did, but for some reason FF is still using 22% of
the battery.

Perhaps the next thing to do is uninstall FF and see what happens.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The only two (non-system) apps that I allow to run "unrestricted" in the
>> background are k9-mail which is on IMAP/PUSH to minimise delays, and my
>> banking app so that it can pop-up confirmation prompts for online
>> purchases.
>>
>> firefox isn't very high up my battery usage list (2% battery and only a
>> few minutes screen time, less than a minute background) what times does
>> your firefox show?
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but I assume that's somewhere in the "Settings".

It is, but I don't know how much Xiaomi fiddle with it compared to
"stock" Android?

> Unfortunately I don't know where to find it. It wasn't under "Display",
> and I couldn't see it in any of the app menus.

For me, Settings/Battery/BatteryUsage

then click on e.g. Firefox from the list of apps below, you should see
screen time and background time (measured since last full charge) and
you can set the battery usage to unrestricted/optimised/restricted
(system apps will probably be fixed at unrestricted).

e.g. <http://andyburns.uk/misc/firefox-battery.png>

Note that my phone is fresh off the charger, so very little battery
usage recorded.

Jeff Layman wrote:

> I just switched the phone on after not using it for two hours

Do you literally mean powered it up from being fully off, or just that
you woke-up the screen?

The former is likely to skew the usage figures towards any apps that
have been used even slightly more than zero since booting.

On 2023-11-24 14:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> I just switched the phone on after not using it for two hours
>
> Do you literally mean powered it up from being fully off, or just that
> you woke-up the screen?
>
> The former is likely to skew the usage figures towards any apps that
> have been used even slightly more than zero since booting.

You are right, that an app takes 90% of the battery use is irrelevant if
it also says the battery will last 2 days, for instance.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

>> Unfortunately I don't know where to find it. It wasn't under "Display",
>> and I couldn't see it in any of the app menus.
>
> For me, Settings/Battery/BatteryUsage

I always try to help others if I can, but in the case of battery
monitoring, with huge Android batteries, for me, it's a thing of the past.

My 5Ah battery could jumpstart a pickup truck so I don't look often at it.
Also there are much better battery utilities than what is Android native.

Long ago I tested every known free battery monitor app utility out there.

These are those I still have on my system (in order of best to worst).
<com.darshancomputing.BatteryIndicatorPro> Battery Bot Pro (free)
<com.gsamlabs.bbm> GSam Battery Monitor (free)
<com.darshancomputing.BatteryIndicator> Battery Bot (free)
<com.asksven.betterbatterystats> BBS Better Battery Stats (free)
<net.sf.andbatdog.batterydog> Android Battery Dog (free)

Note that the best-to-worst inflexion very quickly with such utilities.
As I recall, I'd only recommended BB Pro or GSAM in my last tutorial.
<https://i.postimg.cc/QNPHpZH4/battery02.jpg>

However, for the OP's benefit, & for others, I just went through my Samsung
Android 13 Settings > Battery > Battery Usage (also off the charger).

Here are my results just now, which are provided for comparative purposes.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bN0XT1mG/battery03.jpg>

That lack of useful data is why those five free battery utilities exist.
--
Caveat: I never look at this stuff... I only tested the battery utilities.

On 24/11/2023 13:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> I just switched the phone on after not using it for two hours
>
> Do you literally mean powered it up from being fully off, or just that
> you woke-up the screen?

Just switched on with a short press to the switch on the side. That
immediately brings up the PIN screen, so I guess it just wakes up the
phone. But I did also do a long press to reboot, and there was still FF
usage after that.

> The former is likely to skew the usage figures towards any apps that
> have been used even slightly more than zero since booting.

After rebooting, I went straight to Settings | Battery. I didn't use any
apps.

--

Jeff

On 24/11/2023 13:44, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> The only two (non-system) apps that I allow to run "unrestricted" in the
>>> background are k9-mail which is on IMAP/PUSH to minimise delays, and my
>>> banking app so that it can pop-up confirmation prompts for online
>>> purchases.
>>>
>>> firefox isn't very high up my battery usage list (2% battery and only a
>>> few minutes screen time, less than a minute background) what times does
>>> your firefox show?
>>
>> Excuse my ignorance, but I assume that's somewhere in the "Settings".
>
> It is, but I don't know how much Xiaomi fiddle with it compared to
> "stock" Android?
>
>> Unfortunately I don't know where to find it. It wasn't under "Display",
>> and I couldn't see it in any of the app menus.
>
> For me, Settings/Battery/BatteryUsage
>
> then click on e.g. Firefox from the list of apps below, you should see
> screen time and background time (measured since last full charge) and
> you can set the battery usage to unrestricted/optimised/restricted
> (system apps will probably be fixed at unrestricted).
>
> e.g. <http://andyburns.uk/misc/firefox-battery.png>
>
> Note that my phone is fresh off the charger, so very little battery
> usage recorded.

The Xiaomi version is unfortunately completely different.

At present, FairEmail seems to be using about 53% of the battery and FF
only about 15%! It appears I have about 15 hours of charge left. I'm
coming round to the view that the inbuilt battery app is of very little use.

--

Jeff

On 24/11/2023 16:17, Wally J wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>
>>> Unfortunately I don't know where to find it. It wasn't under "Display",
>>> and I couldn't see it in any of the app menus.
>>
>> For me, Settings/Battery/BatteryUsage
>
> I always try to help others if I can, but in the case of battery
> monitoring, with huge Android batteries, for me, it's a thing of the past.
>
> My 5Ah battery could jumpstart a pickup truck so I don't look often at it.
> Also there are much better battery utilities than what is Android native.

My phone's battery is also said to be 5000mAh.
> Long ago I tested every known free battery monitor app utility out there.
>
> These are those I still have on my system (in order of best to worst).
> <com.darshancomputing.BatteryIndicatorPro> Battery Bot Pro (free)
> <com.gsamlabs.bbm> GSam Battery Monitor (free)
> <com.darshancomputing.BatteryIndicator> Battery Bot (free)
> <com.asksven.betterbatterystats> BBS Better Battery Stats (free)
> <net.sf.andbatdog.batterydog> Android Battery Dog (free)

Thanks for the list. I'll have a look through them. What did you use to
rate the apps? How do you know that they are better or worse than the
"standard" Android battery app which comes with the OS (if there is such
a thing!).

> Note that the best-to-worst inflexion very quickly with such utilities.
> As I recall, I'd only recommended BB Pro or GSAM in my last tutorial.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/QNPHpZH4/battery02.jpg>
>
> However, for the OP's benefit, & for others, I just went through my Samsung
> Android 13 Settings > Battery > Battery Usage (also off the charger).
>
> Here are my results just now, which are provided for comparative purposes.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/bN0XT1mG/battery03.jpg>

As I replied to Andy, it seems the built-in apps vary in what they show.
When you did that screenshot, why does it show no app usage? At the very
least, I would have expected the battery usage app to show what it is using.

> That lack of useful data is why those five free battery utilities exist.

Perhaps that's answered the question I asked above!

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote

>> That lack of useful data is why those five free battery utilities exist.
>
> Perhaps that's answered the question I asked above!

My suggestion is to forget the stuff that comes native with Android.
Use "Battery Bot Pro" freeware or "GSAM Battery Monitor" freeware instead.

Having said that, it has been a while since I even looked at them, so I'd
refer you to what I last said about them over in the XDA Developer's forum.

*Tutorial example of wirelessly mirroring & ripping anonymous YouTube audio & video & mounting the Android filesystem over Wi-Fi using only FOSS tools!*
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tutorial-example-of-wirelessly-mirroring-ripping-anonymous-youtube-audio-video-mounting-the-android-filesystem-over-wi-fi-using-only-foss-tools.4527695/#post-87884351>

I put tons of shots of my tests in that thread, which aren't on Usenet.
--
How's that for a keyword-rich easy-to-serch-for descriptive title! :)

Jeff Layman wrote:

> The worst offender was Firefox (v119.1.1), using about 25% of the battery.

Be aware that doesn't mean firefox has used 25% of the battery, just 25%
of the total taken by all apps ...