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devel / comp.os.msdos.djgpp / Re: DJGPP documentation updates

SubjectAuthor
* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesOzkan Sezer (sezeroz@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
`* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 +- Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 +- Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 +* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 |`* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 | `* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesA. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 |  `* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesA. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 |   `* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 |    `- Re: DJGPP documentation updatesA. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 +* Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 |`- Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]
 `- Re: DJGPP documentation updatesEli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com]

1
Re: DJGPP documentation updates

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From: djg...@delorie.com (Ozkan Sezer (sezeroz@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 03:27:00 +0300
Message-ID: <CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp <djgpp@delorie.com>
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 by: Ozkan Sezer (sezeroz - Wed, 14 Feb 2024 00:27 UTC

On 2/14/24, Pali <pali@pali.im> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I figured out that you are one of the last contributors to the DJGPP
> project. I would like to ask, what is the state of the DJGPP project?
> It is still developed or it is not active anymore?
>
> I have some changes for DJGPP documentation and if the DJGPP project is
> still active I can send you documentation file diffs. Please let me know
> if you (or somebody else) would like to see them.

This must be asked / discussed on the djgpp mailing list: Added to CC.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86eddbt6e3.fsf@gnu.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=453&group=comp.os.msdos.djgpp#453

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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:14:28 +0200
Message-Id: <86eddbt6e3.fsf@gnu.org>
From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240217155210.cs5mqv3izh5jlvee@pali> (message from Pali on Sat,
17 Feb 2024 16:52:10 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
References: <20240213210641.52jnxonf3zuc2qxw@pali>
<CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com>
<86mss3xfu9.fsf@gnu.org> <20240217155210.cs5mqv3izh5jlvee@pali>
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Sat, 17 Feb 2024 16:14 UTC

> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 16:52:10 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> On Wednesday 14 February 2024 16:47:42 Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > From: "Ozkan Sezer (sezeroz@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]" <djgpp@delorie.com>
> > > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 03:27:00 +0300
> > > Cc: djgpp <djgpp@delorie.com>
> > >
> > > On 2/14/24, Pali <pali@pali.im> wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I figured out that you are one of the last contributors to the DJGPP
> > > > project. I would like to ask, what is the state of the DJGPP project?
> > > > It is still developed or it is not active anymore?
> > > >
> > > > I have some changes for DJGPP documentation and if the DJGPP project is
> > > > still active I can send you documentation file diffs. Please let me know
> > > > if you (or somebody else) would like to see them.
> > >
> > > This must be asked / discussed on the djgpp mailing list: Added to CC.
> >
> > Can you tell what kind of documentation changes you are talking about?
>
> Hello, many thanks for all replies. Here is one simple change:
>
> --- src/libc/dpmi/api/d0401.txh
> +++ src/libc/dpmi/api/d0401.txh
> @@ -14,8 +14,8 @@ Please refer to the DPMI Specification (@pxref{DPMI Specification})
> for details on DPMI function call operation. Also see
> the DPMI Overview (@pxref{DPMI Overview}) for general information.
>
> -DPMI function AX = 0x0401 (DPMI 1.0 only). Not supported by CWSDPMI and
> -Windows.
> +DPMI function AX = 0x0401 (DPMI 1.0 only). Supported by CWSDPMI v5+,
> +but not by Windows.

Such changes are, of course, welcome. So how about posting them here,
and let people review and comment? Then we can install the parts that
look useful.

Thanks.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86plwus2on.fsf@gnu.org>

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From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240217215543.c356bdyuh4qfj2eu@pali> (message from Pali on Sat, 17 Feb 2024 22:55:43 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
References: <20240213210641.52jnxonf3zuc2qxw@pali> <CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com> <86mss3xfu9.fsf@gnu.org> <20240217155210.cs5mqv3izh5jlvee@pali> <86eddbt6e3.fsf@gnu.org> <20240217215543.c356bdyuh4qfj2eu@pali>
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Sun, 18 Feb 2024 06:32 UTC

> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 22:55:43 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> > Such changes are, of course, welcome. So how about posting them here,
> > and let people review and comment? Then we can install the parts that
> > look useful.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Ok, here is another simple change for web documentation. Text
> "Capability not supported" is rendered above the HTML table. I have not
> found where is the source file, so I'm writing diff against web URL:
>
> --- https://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/dpmi/api/310508.html
> +++ https://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/dpmi/api/310508.html
> @@ -53,8 +53,8 @@ AX = <a href="errors.html">error cod

DJ, who and how maintains the Web docs?

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86v86g1ux0.fsf@gnu.org>

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 15:38:03 +0200
Message-Id: <86v86g1ux0.fsf@gnu.org>
From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240218103511.5zjrwdy2l53ccn45@pali> (message from Pali on Sun,
18 Feb 2024 11:35:11 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
References: <20240213210641.52jnxonf3zuc2qxw@pali>
<CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com>
<86mss3xfu9.fsf@gnu.org>
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 13:38 UTC

> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:35:11 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> I'm sending another simple documentation change. In documentation for
> getting and setting attributes is written wrong name of the structure
> field in which is stored number pages.
>
> --- src/libc/dpmi/api/d0506.txh
> +++ src/libc/dpmi/api/d0506.txh
> @@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ not by Windows.
> This function retrieves the attributes of a number of pages. Pass the
> handle in @code{@var{info}->handle}, offset of first page (relative to
> start of block) in @code{@var{info}->address}, and number of pages in
> -@code{@var{info}->count}. The buffer @var{buffer} gets filled in with
> +@code{@var{info}->size}. The buffer @var{buffer} gets filled in with
> the attributes. For each page, a 16-bit attribute word in @var{buffer}
> defines the attributes of that page as follows:
>
> --- src/libc/dpmi/api/d0507.txh
> +++ src/libc/dpmi/api/d0507.txh
> @@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ not by Windows.
> This function sets attributes of a number of pages. Pass handle in
> @code{@var{info}->handle}, offset within block in
> @code{@var{info}->address}, and number of pages in
> -@code{@var{info}->count}. @var{buffer} points to an array of 16-bit
> +@code{@var{info}->size}. @var{buffer} points to an array of 16-bit
> words which specify the new attributes.
> @xref{__dpmi_get_page_attributes}, for the definition of the page
> attribute word.

Thanks, installed.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86y1b8wvx9.fsf@gnu.org>

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From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240225115526.mnx5jogkevlbjwu4@pali> (message from Pali on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:55:26 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
References: <20240213210641.52jnxonf3zuc2qxw@pali> <CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com> <86mss3xfu9.fsf@gnu.org> <20240217155210.cs5mqv3izh5jlvee@pali> <86eddbt6e3.fsf@gnu.org> <20240225115526.mnx5jogkevlbjwu4@pali>
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:49 UTC

> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:55:26 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> Hello, I have there another documentation change. It fixes mistake in
> __dpmi_map_conventional_memory_in_memory_block() function. This function
> takes linear address, not the physical one (as defined in DPMI 1.0 spec).

What exactly is the difference between a physical address below 1MB
and the linear address there?

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 14:56:07 +0200
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From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240225124223.qq46f2jz7hj3gduv@pali> (message from Pali on Sun,
25 Feb 2024 13:42:23 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
References: <20240213210641.52jnxonf3zuc2qxw@pali>
<CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com>
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:56 UTC

> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 13:42:23 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> Hello, the next documentation change is for __djgpp_map_physical_memory()
> function. Document requirements / restrictions for out_addr/num_bytes
> parameters and extend example how to use this function. I think that the
> full example is useful because without it I had to read djgpp source
> code to understand what kind of pointer I can pass for out_addr. If you
> like this change, feel free to reformat or rephrase new description.
>
> --- src/libc/dpmi/helper/mapmem.txh
> +++ src/libc/dpmi/helper/mapmem.txh
> @@ -21,6 +21,22 @@ be set to @code{EINVAL} and the routine will fail.
> This routine properly handles memory ranges that span multiple DPMI
> handles, while @code{__dpmi_map_device_in_memory_block} does not.
>
> +Every page in the specified address range @var{out_addr}, @var{num_bytes}
> +must belong to some DPMI handle in @code{__djgpp_memory_handle_list}
> +allocated by @code{sbrk()}.

Please specify function by their name alone, as in @code{sbrk},
without the parentheses. "sbrk()" looks like a call to 'sbrk' with no
arguments, which is not what you mean here. Same with references to
other functions in the patch. (I realize that the fashion of
referencing functions by using the parentheses exists out there in
other projects, but we don't follow it here.)

Thanks.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86le78wjv1.fsf@gnu.org>

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In-Reply-To: <20240225165154.aiasgj6e6uipmt42@pali> (message from Pali on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 17:51:54 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Sun, 25 Feb 2024 17:10 UTC

> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 17:51:54 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> On Sunday 25 February 2024 14:49:38 Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:55:26 +0100
> > > From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> > > Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
> > >
> > > Hello, I have there another documentation change. It fixes mistake in
> > > __dpmi_map_conventional_memory_in_memory_block() function. This function
> > > takes linear address, not the physical one (as defined in DPMI 1.0 spec).
> >
> > What exactly is the difference between a physical address below 1MB
> > and the linear address there?
>
> I'm not sure now if I understood it correctly. But my understanding of
> the spec is that DPMI host which supports paging may page-out also
> linear addresses below 1 MB.

Really? IME, no DPMI host does that. DOS memory is always mapped
1:1, AFAIR.

> There are DPMI functions 0602H and 0603H which client may use to
> enable/disable paging for memory below 1 MB. And once paging is
> active then virtual linear address does not have to match physical
> address.

Maybe the documentation should actually include all that, instead of
just using the confusing term "linear address" for what most DJGPP
hackers will think as "physical address".

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

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 by: A. Wik (awik32@gmail - Sun, 25 Feb 2024 19:28 UTC

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 at 17:11, Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via
djgpp@delorie.com] <djgpp@delorie.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > What exactly is the difference between a physical address below 1MB
> > > and the linear address there?
> >
> > I'm not sure now if I understood it correctly. But my understanding of
> > the spec is that DPMI host which supports paging may page-out also
> > linear addresses below 1 MB.
>
> Really? IME, no DPMI host does that. DOS memory is always mapped
> 1:1, AFAIR.

Windows maps VMs one at a time into the low 1 MB, although the memory
that was in use when Windows started is replicated (at the same linear
address) in all the VMs. A VM is approximately a "DOS box", but there
is always a so-called "system" VM in which (usually) the GUI is
running.

There is also expanded memory (LIM EMS) that involves mapping the
"expanded" memory into or out of a program's low 1 MB address space.

-Albert.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

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From: djg...@delorie.com (A. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 08:23:27 +0000
Message-ID: <CALPW7mRAZHoai1B6xp_qMsC77wOJOPp6mZ1ueNceF-w=eW80WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
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 by: A. Wik (awik32@gmail - Mon, 26 Feb 2024 08:23 UTC

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 at 19:59, Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via
djgpp@delorie.com] <djgpp@delorie.com> wrote:
>
> > From: "A. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]" <djgpp@delorie.com>
> > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 19:28:07 +0000
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 at 17:11, Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via
> > djgpp@delorie.com] <djgpp@delorie.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm not sure now if I understood it correctly. But my understanding of
> > > > the spec is that DPMI host which supports paging may page-out also
> > > > linear addresses below 1 MB.
> > >
> > > Really? IME, no DPMI host does that. DOS memory is always mapped
> > > 1:1, AFAIR.
> >
> > Windows maps VMs one at a time into the low 1 MB, although the memory
> > that was in use when Windows started is replicated (at the same linear
> > address) in all the VMs. A VM is approximately a "DOS box", but there
> > is always a so-called "system" VM in which (usually) the GUI is
> > running.
> >
> > There is also expanded memory (LIM EMS) that involves mapping the
> > "expanded" memory into or out of a program's low 1 MB address space.
>
> I think there's a misunderstanding here. The issue at hand is whether
> the DOS memory's linear address, as it appears within a certain VM,
> can ever have the value above 1MB. If the linear address is _always_
> below 1MB, then for all practical purposes it is the same as the
> "physical address", since what the VM does under the hood is none of
> the business of the DJGPP programmer.

Linear V86 addresses are obviously below 1 MB, but (via the page
tables) they can be (and in Wndows often are) mapped to any physical
address, including above 1 MB.

-Albert.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<864jdvwfiy.fsf@gnu.org>

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From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
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Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Mon, 26 Feb 2024 12:56 UTC

> From: "A. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]" <djgpp@delorie.com>
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 08:23:27 +0000
>
> > I think there's a misunderstanding here. The issue at hand is whether
> > the DOS memory's linear address, as it appears within a certain VM,
> > can ever have the value above 1MB. If the linear address is _always_
> > below 1MB, then for all practical purposes it is the same as the
> > "physical address", since what the VM does under the hood is none of
> > the business of the DJGPP programmer.
>
> Linear V86 addresses are obviously below 1 MB, but (via the page
> tables) they can be (and in Wndows often are) mapped to any physical
> address, including above 1 MB.

Of course. But the misunderstanding I was pointing out is exactly
this: a programmer doesn't care about those page tables in this case,
because DOS memory is by definition "physical".

We basically agree about the facts, but not about their impact on the
documentation that is the subject of this thread.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<CALPW7mRUipL8RhJLWMo+8LOzqGhL83ZnrQe10Rz8tizEt_pt9w@mail.gmail.com>

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From: djg...@delorie.com (A. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 13:30:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
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 by: A. Wik (awik32@gmail - Mon, 26 Feb 2024 13:30 UTC

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 at 12:56, Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via
djgpp@delorie.com] <djgpp@delorie.com> wrote:
>
> > From: "A. Wik (awik32@gmail.com) [via djgpp@delorie.com]" <djgpp@delorie.com>
> > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 08:23:27 +0000
> >
> > > I think there's a misunderstanding here. The issue at hand is whether
> > > the DOS memory's linear address, as it appears within a certain VM,
> > > can ever have the value above 1MB. If the linear address is _always_
> > > below 1MB, then for all practical purposes it is the same as the
> > > "physical address", since what the VM does under the hood is none of
> > > the business of the DJGPP programmer.
> >
> > Linear V86 addresses are obviously below 1 MB, but (via the page
> > tables) they can be (and in Wndows often are) mapped to any physical
> > address, including above 1 MB.
>
> Of course. But the misunderstanding I was pointing out is exactly
> this: a programmer doesn't care about those page tables in this case,
> because DOS memory is by definition "physical".
>
> We basically agree about the facts, but not about their impact on the
> documentation that is the subject of this thread.

Perhaps you mean that the distinction doesn't matter, because the
addresses are always mapped in while the VM is running? But the
distinction does matter if you're going to pass the address to a
hardware device. It can also matter if you're going to do certain
things with paging, such as turning it on or off or in some cases,
when you're manipulating the page tables.

-Albert.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86o7bum9is.fsf@gnu.org>

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From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240225115526.mnx5jogkevlbjwu4@pali> (message from Pali on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:55:26 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
References: <20240213210641.52jnxonf3zuc2qxw@pali> <CAA2C=vA9F0qL8vAw+FA5AtVavsEZqJKY=UrMz8MbpQa1POqjLA@mail.gmail.com> <86mss3xfu9.fsf@gnu.org> <20240217155210.cs5mqv3izh5jlvee@pali> <86eddbt6e3.fsf@gnu.org> <20240225115526.mnx5jogkevlbjwu4@pali>
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Mon, 4 Mar 2024 13:06 UTC

> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:55:26 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> Hello, I have there another documentation change. It fixes mistake in
> __dpmi_map_conventional_memory_in_memory_block() function. This function
> takes linear address, not the physical one (as defined in DPMI 1.0 spec).

Thanks, installed.

Re: DJGPP documentation updates

<86jzmim9ch.fsf@gnu.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=481&group=comp.os.msdos.djgpp#481

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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2024 15:10:06 +0200
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From: djg...@delorie.com (Eli Zaretskii (eliz@gnu.org) [via djgpp@delorie.com])
To: Pali <pali@pali.im>
Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
In-Reply-To: <20240227225119.vjk6fig7pepudlwc@pali> (message from Pali on Tue, 27 Feb 2024 23:51:19 +0100)
Subject: Re: DJGPP documentation updates
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 by: Eli Zaretskii (eliz@ - Mon, 4 Mar 2024 13:10 UTC

> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 23:51:19 +0100
> From: Pali <pali@pali.im>
> Cc: djgpp@delorie.com
>
> On Sunday 25 February 2024 14:56:07 Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Please specify function by their name alone, as in @code{sbrk},
> > without the parentheses. "sbrk()" looks like a call to 'sbrk' with no
> > arguments, which is not what you mean here. Same with references to
> > other functions in the patch. (I realize that the fashion of
> > referencing functions by using the parentheses exists out there in
> > other projects, but we don't follow it here.)
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> It is the only issue in this change? If yes, would you trivially change
> it before applying?

Done, thanks.

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