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computers / comp.sys.apple2 / Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphics

SubjectAuthor
* FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsMichael J. Mahon
+* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
|`- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsMichael J. Mahon
+* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsTRS-90
|`* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
| +- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsAndrew Roughan
| `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsTRS-90
|  `- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
`* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsKent Dickey
 `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsMichael J. Mahon
  `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
   `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsMichael J. Mahon
    `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
     `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsKent Dickey
      +* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsD Finnigan
      |+* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsD Finnigan
      ||`* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsKent Dickey
      || +* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
      || |`* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsKent Dickey
      || | +- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
      || | `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsI am Rob
      || |  `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsAntoine Vignau
      || |   `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsI am Rob
      || |    `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
      || |     `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsI am Rob
      || |      `- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
      || `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsD Finnigan
      ||  `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsD Finnigan
      ||   +* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
      ||   |`- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
      ||   +* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsKent Dickey
      ||   |+- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsOliver Schmidt
      ||   |`* ProDOS sector order resultsD Finnigan
      ||   | +* Re: ProDOS sector order resultsOliver Schmidt
      ||   | |`* Re: ProDOS sector order resultsD Finnigan
      ||   | | +* Re: ProDOS sector order resultsI am Rob
      ||   | | |+- Re: ProDOS sector order resultsD Finnigan
      ||   | | |`* Re: ProDOS sector order resultsfadden
      ||   | | | `- Re: ProDOS sector order resultsfadden
      ||   | | `- Re: ProDOS sector order resultsOliver Schmidt
      ||   | `* Re: ProDOS sector order resultsDavid Schmidt
      ||   |  `- Re: ProDOS sector order resultsD Finnigan
      ||   `- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsD Finnigan
      |`* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
      | `- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsSteve Nickolas
      `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsMichael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
       `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
        `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsKent Dickey
         `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden
          +- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsDavid Schmidt
          `* Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsI am Rob
           `- Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphicsfadden

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Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphics

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Subject: Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphics
From: gids...@sasktel.net (I am Rob)
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 by: I am Rob - Thu, 10 Nov 2022 20:36 UTC

> > Can you describe CiderPress's algorithm for determining sector order of
> > a .dsk file?
> "Complicated".
>
> It tries DOS, ProDOS/Pascal, CP/M, and physical sector orders. (CP/M ordering is not really a thing, since nobody is creating disk images with CP/M software... but we might as well collect the whole set.) It tests the filesystem for DOS, ProDOS, Pascal, CP/M, RDOS, Gutenberg, and is probably checking for HFS even though I doubt anybody put that on a 5.25" floppy.
>
> The tests for DOS / ProDOS filesystems have to take into account non-5.25" situations, like UNIDOS disks and DOS Master floppies, so there's a bunch of auto-detect code that doesn't really apply to 5.25" disks.

Just realized you were testing for file systems and not sector ordering.

There should only be 2 sector orderings, is there not? Sequential like Prodos does it, and DOS ordering? Or does formatting with interleave change the sector orders as well?

Is a pascal disk on a floppy using sector order, whereas a Pascal volume on a hard drive uses Prodos order blocks?
Same with CP/M, does it use both, depending on which disk it is on, floppy or hard drive?

Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphics

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Subject: Re: FASTCIRC--High-speed circles for HGR graphics
From: thefad...@gmail.com (fadden)
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 by: fadden - Fri, 11 Nov 2022 00:05 UTC

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:36:58 PM UTC-8, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
> Just realized you were testing for file systems and not sector ordering.

I'm doing both. If you can't recognize the filesystem, you can't figure out if you have the correct sector ordering. And if you have the wrong sector ordering, the filesystem won't look right.

> There should only be 2 sector orderings, is there not? Sequential like Prodos does it, and DOS ordering? Or does formatting with interleave change the sector orders as well?

The formatters that alter the interleave are moving the physical sectors around. This has no effect on disk images, because those are created by software that requests specific sectors rather than just copying whatever passes under the drive head.

DOS 3.3, ProDOS, UCSD Pascal, and CP/M remap the sector numbers in software.. DOS and ProDOS are different from each other because the software sector skew tables are different, so when DOS and ProDOS request sector 1 they get different physical sectors. (Sector 0 is always mapped to 0, so checking its contents doesn't tell you anything about the ordering.)

"DOS order" images come from anything that runs under DOS and reads sectors in sequential order. "ProDOS order" images come from anything that runs under ProDOS and reads blocks in sequential order. If we had CP/M disk image utilities, we'd need to worry about CP/M order too.

> Is a pascal disk on a floppy using sector order, whereas a Pascal volume on a hard drive uses Prodos order blocks?
> Same with CP/M, does it use both, depending on which disk it is on, floppy or hard drive?

ProDOS/SOS and Pascal use the same sector skew. CP/M uses a different skew.. Copy ][+ images ignore the software mapping and just copy the sectors in physical order. See _Beneath Apple DOS_ pages 3-22 and 3-23 for an explanation and a table of values.

All of this is applicable only to 16-sector 5.25" floppy disks. DOS 3.2 doesn't do this, and pretty much everything else is treated like a sequential block device.

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