On my LAN I have three Win 7 Pro PC and two Win XP Pro PC.

From a Win XP PC and two Win 7 PCs I can see all thing on the LAN.

One Win 7 PC I can see the Win XP PCs.

A different one Win 7 PC I only see three things and not the other
others on the LAN.

Those I see and want have Drive Letters assigned.

I need to be able to copy from one PC to the other.

How Do I get NETWORK to show the other devices ?

I need to see the missing PCs and then assign a drive letter.

On 9/22/2022 10:34 PM, EIEIO wrote:
> On my LAN I have three Win 7 Pro PC and two Win XP Pro PC.
>
> From a Win XP PC and two Win 7 PCs I can see all thing on the LAN.
>
> One Win 7 PC I can see the Win XP PCs.
>
> A different one Win 7 PC I only see three things and not the other others on the LAN.
>
> Those I see and want have Drive Letters assigned.
>
> I need to be able to copy from one PC to the other.
>
> How Do I get NETWORK to show the other devices ?
>
> I need to see the missing PCs and then assign a drive letter.

Need some info.

Ipconfig gives the IP info on each machine. DHCP in the router
likely defined non-overlapping addresses of some sort.
192.168.x.x and 10.x.x.x are not route-able addresses.
Thus, the diagram below, can cause some broke networking.

Larry 192.168.1.3 WinXP workgroup=WORKGROUP SMBV1
Curly 192.168.1.4 WinXP workgroup=WORKGROUP SMBV1
Moe 192.168.1.5 WinXP workgroup=WORKGROUP SMBV1
Pen 192.168.1.6 Win7 workgroup=WORKGROUP SMBV1,SMBV2
Teller 192.168.1.7 Win7 workgroup=WORKGROUP SMBV1,SMBV2

We would need to know how the things are wired, with hubs, switches, routers.

WAN ------- router1 ------ router2 # could cause problems
| | | | |
L C P M T

WAN ------- router1 ------ switch # might be OK
| | | | |
L C P M T

WinXP has a patch for SMBV1. It was supposed to provide some
relief from some kind of SMBV1 exploit. Having at least one
NAT router, might have also provided some protection.

Win7 supports more than one flavor of SMB.

NAS boxes tend to be as crippled as WinXP, and only have SMBV1.

Windows 7 has Home Groups, as well as File Sharing. There was
a claim both could be running at the same time. Windows 7
relied on IPV6 for things like Home Groups, as far as I know.
(My router happens to only route IPV4, and that's on purpose.)
The IP addresses in the example above, are IPV4, and that's
what Windows XP would understand (at a minimum).

If you run

services.msc

in Windows 7, you should see seven particular services.
two that come to mind are:

Function Discovery Provider Host Started
Function Discovery Resource Publication Started

The Resource Publication one, may provide NetBIOS nameserving
equivalent to what WinXP uses.

There are two ways, in Explorer, to access a share.

\\192.168.1.7\TellerDiskDrive
\\Teller\TellerDiskDrive # Resource Publication on Teller, makes
# using names work.

If the names are not working, not being nameserved, you can
try using an IP address.

A network scanner you can use, will print some of the table
I showed up above. Using the netmask of 24, scans 256 addresses.
(Using the netmask of 16, scans 65536 addresses.) The BlueWave
machine has workgroup=WORKGROUP assigned. And that is what
shows in the output.

Output of nbtscan ( http://www.unixwiz.net/tools/nbtscan.html )

[ nbtscan.exe (v1.0.35) - Windows binary (36 kbytes) ]

cmd # "Run as Administrator"

cd /d S: # My nbtscan.exe was placed here

nbtscan 192.168.1.0/24 # scan 256 addresses or so
# 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254 maybe

192.168.1.3 WORKGROUP\BLUEWAVE # Only one machine returned!

The machine you run that from, that test is a crude ping test of sorts.
It helps identify if you have two routers, when maybe a router and
a switch might work better. Using a matrix of ping commands between
machines, can also tell you whether the routers and switches are playing nice.
You can't file share, if the wiring for your network is not correct.

Collect some info, at least for your own records, so you have a
picture, with addresses on it. It's possible to be using browsers
on all machines, and surfing the web with each and every machine,
yet NOT have local file sharing capability. That is one of the
side effects of having two routers in routing mode.

I have a subnet which is isolated from the rest of my main
network, and consequently, I don't even try to ping that any more,
because it cannot work. Yet that subnet can surf the web just fine.
But it can't file share. Or do squat else.

If each machine has a different looking nbtscan, start looking
at where you stuck the routers. If the workgroup= is not
the same (one is mshome), then think about why that is
happening. Maybe they could all be switched over to mshome,
just for fun. workgroup=mshome instead of workgroup=WORKGROUP
(the latter being my favorite, as it is so confusing). The mshome
may come from using homegroups, not sure...

Paul

To clarify I now realize this.

=== On the PC that I am having trouble with ===
When I go to Explorer and open
My Network Places
I see only the few network places.

=== On a good PC I see ===
Entire Network
Microsoft Terminal Services
Microsoft Windows Network
Web Client Network

I can open
Microsoft Windows Network
to see
MyWorkgroup
and all my devices on the LAN including PCs, NAS etc

=== On the problem PC I see none of these ===

Paul wrote:
> On 9/22/2022 10:34 PM, EIEIO wrote:
>> On my LAN I have three Win 7 Pro PC and two Win XP Pro PC.
>>
>>  From a Win XP PC and two Win 7 PCs I can see all thing on the LAN.
>>
>> One Win 7 PC I can see the Win XP PCs.
>>
>> A different one Win 7 PC I only see three things and not the other
>> others on the LAN.
>>
>> Those I see and want have Drive Letters assigned.
>>
>> I need to be able to copy from one PC to the other.
>>
>> How Do I get NETWORK to show the other devices ?
>>
>> I need to see the missing PCs and then assign a drive letter.
>
> Need some info.
>
> Ipconfig gives the IP info on each machine. DHCP in the router
> likely defined non-overlapping addresses of some sort.
> 192.168.x.x and 10.x.x.x are not route-able addresses.
> Thus, the diagram below, can cause some broke networking.
>
> Larry       192.168.1.3    WinXP   workgroup=WORKGROUP  SMBV1
> Curly       192.168.1.4    WinXP   workgroup=WORKGROUP  SMBV1
> Moe         192.168.1.5    WinXP   workgroup=WORKGROUP  SMBV1
> Pen         192.168.1.6    Win7    workgroup=WORKGROUP  SMBV1,SMBV2
> Teller      192.168.1.7    Win7    workgroup=WORKGROUP  SMBV1,SMBV2
>
> We would need to know how the things are wired, with hubs, switches,
> routers.
>
>  WAN ------- router1 ------ router2     # could cause problems
>              |  |  |        |  |
>              L  C  P        M  T
>
>  WAN ------- router1 ------ switch      # might be OK
>              |  |  |        |  |
>              L  C  P        M  T
>
> WinXP has a patch for SMBV1. It was supposed to provide some
> relief from some kind of SMBV1 exploit. Having at least one
> NAT router, might have also provided some protection.
>
> Win7 supports more than one flavor of SMB.
>
> NAS boxes tend to be as crippled as WinXP, and only have SMBV1.
>
> Windows 7 has Home Groups, as well as File Sharing. There was
> a claim both could be running at the same time. Windows 7
> relied on IPV6 for things like Home Groups, as far as I know.
> (My router happens to only route IPV4, and that's on purpose.)
> The IP addresses in the example above, are IPV4, and that's
> what Windows XP would understand (at a minimum).
>
> If you run
>
>   services.msc
>
> in Windows 7, you should see seven particular services.
> two that come to mind are:
>
>    Function Discovery Provider Host         Started
>    Function Discovery Resource Publication  Started
>
> The Resource Publication one, may provide NetBIOS nameserving
> equivalent to what WinXP uses.
>
> There are two ways, in Explorer, to access a share.
>
>    \\192.168.1.7\TellerDiskDrive
>    \\Teller\TellerDiskDrive           # Resource Publication on Teller,
> makes
>                                       # using names work.
>
> If the names are not working, not being nameserved, you can
> try using an IP address.
>
> A network scanner you can use, will print some of the table
> I showed up above. Using the netmask of 24, scans 256 addresses.
> (Using the netmask of 16, scans 65536 addresses.) The BlueWave
> machine has workgroup=WORKGROUP assigned. And that is what
> shows in the output.
>
>    Output of nbtscan ( http://www.unixwiz.net/tools/nbtscan.html )
>
>    [ nbtscan.exe (v1.0.35) - Windows binary (36 kbytes) ]
>
>    cmd                                     # "Run as Administrator"
>
>    cd /d S:                                # My nbtscan.exe was placed
> here
>
>    nbtscan 192.168.1.0/24                  # scan 256 addresses or so
>                                            # 192.168.1.1 to
> 192.168.1.254 maybe
>
>    192.168.1.3     WORKGROUP\BLUEWAVE      # Only one machine returned!
>
> The machine you run that from, that test is a crude ping test of sorts.
> It helps identify if you have two routers, when maybe a router and
> a switch might work better. Using a matrix of ping commands between
> machines, can also tell you whether the routers and switches are playing
> nice.
> You can't file share, if the wiring for your network is not correct.
>
> Collect some info, at least for your own records, so you have a
> picture, with addresses on it. It's possible to be using browsers
> on all machines, and surfing the web with each and every machine,
> yet NOT have local file sharing capability. That is one of the
> side effects of having two routers in routing mode.
>
> I have a subnet which is isolated from the rest of my main
> network, and consequently, I don't even try to ping that any more,
> because it cannot work. Yet that subnet can surf the web just fine.
> But it can't file share. Or do squat else.
>
> If each machine has a different looking nbtscan, start looking
> at where you stuck the routers. If the workgroup= is not
> the same (one is mshome), then think about why that is
> happening. Maybe they could all be switched over to mshome,
> just for fun. workgroup=mshome instead of workgroup=WORKGROUP
> (the latter being my favorite, as it is so confusing). The mshome
> may come from using homegroups, not sure...
>
>    Paul

On 9/25/2022 11:43 AM, EIEIO wrote:
>
> To clarify I now realize this.
>
> === On the PC that I am having trouble with ===
> When I go to Explorer and open
> My Network Places
> I see only the few network places.
>
> === On a good PC I see ===
>    Entire Network
>      Microsoft Terminal Services
>      Microsoft Windows Network
>      Web Client Network
>
>     I can open
>      Microsoft Windows Network
>        to see
>     MyWorkgroup
>           and all my devices on the LAN including PCs, NAS etc
>
>
> === On the problem PC I see none of these ===
>

I was able to reproduce this.

I have a Microsoft VM I downloaded a while back, which
has WinXP in it. They install WinXP and fiddle with it
a bit, so it's not "untouched goods" exactly.

The weird thing is, the Network Troubleshooter claims

Microsoft Terminal Services
Microsoft Windows Network
Web Client Network

are all installed, but... they won't show up where they are
supposed to in Windows XP. I tried using the panel that
has the "DHCP Automatic" thing, and it has a second dialog
that has a WINS tab, so you can try to get the Network
Neighborhood working. And changing that, did nothing.

When I would try to scan for "machines in my workgroup",
it kept telling me "a service is not running". But, of course
they don't say what service that is. There is a Computer
Browser service, which I interpreted as the one in question,
but it was running.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6gjLP6Q/winxp-network-experiments.gif

Mine smacks of a permissions problem, but I don't believe
that for a moment.

Since my WinXP machine broke, this VM business really
sucks as a replacement. It's just not the same.

The most irritating part ? The Windows 11 machine saw that
VM the entire time. No matter how much I screwed around with
the settings and reinstalled stuff, I could see the shared
folder the entire time. Baffling !!! I was expecting it
to wink out once in a while, as I fooled around, but it
just would not let go.

Paul

On 9/25/2022 11:43 AM, EIEIO wrote:
>
> To clarify I now realize this.
>
> === On the PC that I am having trouble with ===
> When I go to Explorer and open
> My Network Places
> I see only the few network places.
>
> === On a good PC I see ===
>    Entire Network
>      Microsoft Terminal Services
>      Microsoft Windows Network
>      Web Client Network
>
>     I can open
>      Microsoft Windows Network
>        to see
>     MyWorkgroup
>           and all my devices on the LAN including PCs, NAS etc
>
>
> === On the problem PC I see none of these ===

I made a little more progress.

But the progress is not the kind that is easily packaged for
others to use.

The hint comes from here.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/3f89f3cc-c02b-49cc-8f18-4b2190296a89/net-view-no-longer-working-nor-does-network-explorer?forum=win10itpronetworking

What happens, is when a newer version of Windows gets on
the network, it kills the connection the older OS is trying
to make. This seems to result in the error message about
"server is not started" or something similar to that.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/rwcNWvnk/sharing-four-OS.gif

At first, nothing would work. Win11 could always see everything,
even continuing to list computers that weren't on the network at
the time. It's like the Computer Browser function was not recording
elections properly or taking note of missing equipment. But the older
OSes could not list anything properly.

But once I read the Procmon description in that thread, I thought of a
test case to run.

Step 1: Only power up WinXP and Windows 7
Success. I start seeing WinXP and Win7 machines
in my workgroup.

Step 2: Start Windows 10. Still working. All parties
now see three machines.

Step 3: Start Windows 11. Still working. All parties
now see four machines. [Paul takes pictures now...]

By doing it in that order, it allows the old machines to "initialize"
their Net Browser. Then, adding the more modern machines last, they
don't have a chance to crush the old machines, like they were doing
before.

Your NAS is most likely in the same class as Windows XP, so can be
started early in the bring-up sequence.

I cannot automate this for you, but you can try something along those
lines, and see if the workgroup all shows up. Try starting the WinXP,
any NAS, the Windows 7 machine, before starting a Win10 or Win11 machine.

Paul