Windows 73.7 %
MacOS 15.3 %
ChromeOS 2.2%
Linux 2.1 %

That's how much of a sad joke Linux is for the average Internet user.

And just to be clear, we are discussing the average internet user, not
the professionals who code the net.

The pros are the only ones to whom Linux is worth a damn.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 00:01:38 +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> Windows 73.7 %
> MacOS 15.3 %
> ChromeOS 2.2%
> Linux 2.1 %
>
> That's how much of a sad joke Linux is for the average Internet user.
>
> And just to be clear, we are discussing the average internet user, not
> the professionals who code the net.
>
> The pros are the only ones to whom Linux is worth a damn.

You have numerous posts concerning Linux in a windows news group. You
seem to be obsessed with the topic. Windows comes pre-installed on
virtually all machines, very few people have either the desire or
knowledge to switch to Linux. Those who do are quite happy with it. End
of discussion.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 16:26:14 -0000 (UTC), david c wrote:

> You have numerous posts concerning Linux in a windows news group. You
> seem to be obsessed with the topic. Windows comes pre-installed on
> virtually all machines, very few people have either the desire or
> knowledge to switch to Linux. Those who do are quite happy with it. End
> of discussion.

Actually no, Linux users aren't happy with it, hence so many
alternative distros. Not to mention the regular updates and bug
fixes.

"mechanic" <mechanic@example.net> wrote

| Actually no, Linux users aren't happy with it, hence so many
| alternative distros. Not to mention the regular updates and bug
| fixes.

And the lack of longterm support. But that's all about
Linux as a geek project. Linux as embedded or as a server
is widespread. The difference is that an expert is setting
it up for a specific purpose. You have to remember that
most of what gets done on Linux is done by geeks for fun,
out of generosity/idealism, or to impress their friends. The
whole thing even started that way. Money is made on support.
So there's really no one with motivation to make a usable
product. But there is motivation to compete on versions and
keep tinkering.

[Click here to download a tarball of this comment. It should
compile with any decent C compiler. Sorry, but if you're
using Visual Studio you'll need to start a project and edit
the code files. Want more help? Sorry, buddy, this is the
man page and there ain't no more docs. :) ]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 11:34:23 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 16:26:14 -0000 (UTC), david c wrote:
>
>> You have numerous posts concerning Linux in a windows news group. You
>> seem to be obsessed with the topic. Windows comes pre-installed on
>> virtually all machines, very few people have either the desire or
>> knowledge to switch to Linux. Those who do are quite happy with it. End
>> of discussion.

End of discussion? Hardly.

The only Linux users we're bitch'n about are those who perpetually
preach in these groups about how great Linux and it's users are, and
everybody else who doesn't convert over to it is a dumbo

Outside of those insecure boobs, we Windows dummies couldn't give a
rat's buttend about Linux one way or the other.

>
>Actually no, Linux users aren't happy with it, hence so many
>alternative distros. Not to mention the regular updates and bug
>fixes.

On 10/19/2022 7:34 AM, Mayayana wrote:
> "mechanic" <mechanic@example.net> wrote
>
> | Actually no, Linux users aren't happy with it, hence so many
> | alternative distros. Not to mention the regular updates and bug
> | fixes.
>
> And the lack of longterm support.

There is long term support. That's what LTS stands for.

The organization is similar to Service Packs. You have a
base OS with a release number on it. A repository (with the
25000 packages on it), is tied to the release number. Maybe
18.04 has its own repository for example.

18.04 ===> 18.04 repo on the Internet (repo goes offline, when out of support)
20.04 ===> 20.04 repo on the Internet (advised to Upgrade, before it is too late...)
22.04 ===> 20.04 repo on the Internet

When they wish to change the revision number (18.04 --> 20.04),
the pointers in the "upgraded" OS point to the 20.04 repository.

The package manager is then self-consistent. After your
version upgrade, everything in-tree works again.

OK, so what breaks ? Why, that custom software you built outside
the tree. Outside the tree means "you support the breakage". It's
a form of DLL hell. Every analogy from one OS, has an equivalent
in the other OS. No concept is left untouched. "Registry" ?
Well, preferences have to be stored somewhere, and Linux
has its own hell for this. But hell it remains (dconf and
friends, multiple places a preferences can hide like in /etc).

Some programs have searched in as many as 20 places for their
preferences. Using Strace, you can watch the fun as a process
searches for the 20 places, to see if the file names exist.
This is all... good fun.

That's why I see equivalence in things. You cannot hide how
computers work, and make false claims of superiority one way or
another. Instead, as a user, you can ask the question "where
did these guys hide the function they claim to have 'cured'".
Because it's in there, somewhere.

Windows OSes update, Linux OSes update. Both can do it automatically,
to the annoyance of the user.

Windows OSes upgrade (22H2), Linux OSes upgrade (22.04).

Windows has Metro Apps in a Store. Linux has a Repo tree with software in it.
The Repo is their Store, in a very rough sense. The Snap repo
is getting a lot closer to being a Microsoft Store.

And so on.

Paul

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| > And the lack of longterm support.
| | There is long term support. That's what LTS stands for.
| | The organization is similar to Service Packs. You have a
| base OS with a release number on it. A repository (with the
| 25000 packages on it), is tied to the release number. Maybe
| 18.04 has its own repository for example.
| | 18.04 ===> 18.04 repo on the Internet (repo goes offline, when out of
support)
| 20.04 ===> 20.04 repo on the Internet (advised to Upgrade, before it
is too late...)
| 22.04 ===> 20.04 repo on the Internet

I wouldn't call that support. That's updates. Support
is when I install a program on XP, 20 years after release,
and it runs fine. It's not support if I need a particular
version of Win10 to run the software. It's not support when
program XYZ gets an update and requires that all its
dependencies also be updated. The technical term for
that is "major breakage -- big time". :)

On 10/19/2022 8:14 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>
> | > And the lack of longterm support.
> |
> | There is long term support. That's what LTS stands for.
> |
> | The organization is similar to Service Packs. You have a
> | base OS with a release number on it. A repository (with the
> | 25000 packages on it), is tied to the release number. Maybe
> | 18.04 has its own repository for example.
> |
> | 18.04 ===> 18.04 repo on the Internet (repo goes offline, when out of
> support)
> | 20.04 ===> 20.04 repo on the Internet (advised to Upgrade, before it
> is too late...)
> | 22.04 ===> 20.04 repo on the Internet
>
> I wouldn't call that support. That's updates. Support
> is when I install a program on XP, 20 years after release,
> and it runs fine. It's not support if I need a particular
> version of Win10 to run the software. It's not support when
> program XYZ gets an update and requires that all its
> dependencies also be updated. The technical term for
> that is "major breakage -- big time". :)

It's true. Running old stuff on a newer system,
is all but impossible in executable form.

I took a 32-bit executable from 2007, and it would
not run in the Bash shell on Windows 11.

This is what that 2007 OS looks like, when booted on the
Test Machine. The sound didn't work, but otherwise it
put on a better show than some of the more recent releases.
"The screen wasn't black" [high praise]

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/xTZyzL2M/U710-screen.jpg

Actually, I had to use Safe Graphics mode to get that far,
because it doesn't know what the video card is. The driver
is "vesa", which stands for "it actually works" in spanish :-)
Versus some of the other driver names which have
less encouraging translations. I think if you had a 32-bit
Puppy handy, the "xvesa" it uses is likely the same thing,
and it tends to work too.

Paul

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| This is what that 2007 OS looks like, when booted on the
| Test Machine. The sound didn't work, but otherwise it
| put on a better show than some of the more recent releases.
| "The screen wasn't black" [high praise]
| | [Picture]
| | https://i.postimg.cc/xTZyzL2M/U710-screen.jpg
|

That reminds me of the thrill at first booting into the
exotic land of Linux. But it's also indicative of the low
expectations. "Wow. Nice. This looks as good as Windows!"
We don't really expect it to work. When it mimics a generic
Windows desktop background it feels like getting that old
car in the driveway to turn over after it's been sitting for
3 months. "Wow. Nice. All it took was a jump. It probably
won't drive, but the engine sounds pretty good."

"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in news:tirci5$asfs$1@dont-
email.me:

> "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>
>| This is what that 2007 OS looks like, when booted on the
>| Test Machine. The sound didn't work, but otherwise it
>| put on a better show than some of the more recent releases.
>| "The screen wasn't black" [high praise]
>|
>| [Picture]
>|
>| https://i.postimg.cc/xTZyzL2M/U710-screen.jpg
>|
>
> That reminds me of the thrill at first booting into the
> exotic land of Linux. But it's also indicative of the low
> expectations. "Wow. Nice. This looks as good as Windows!"
> We don't really expect it to work. When it mimics a generic
> Windows desktop background it feels like getting that old
> car in the driveway to turn over after it's been sitting for
> 3 months. "Wow. Nice. All it took was a jump. It probably
> won't drive, but the engine sounds pretty good."

Funny you should bring this up...

ZDNet fed me an article today about the latest Linux based Windows(-like) clone.

https://www.windowsfx.org

On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 21:53:43 +0000, DanS
<t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote as underneath :

>"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in news:tirci5$asfs$1@dont-
>email.me:
>
>> "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>>
>>| This is what that 2007 OS looks like, when booted on the
>>| Test Machine. The sound didn't work, but otherwise it
>>| put on a better show than some of the more recent releases.
>>| "The screen wasn't black" [high praise]
>>|
>>| [Picture]
>>|
>>| https://i.postimg.cc/xTZyzL2M/U710-screen.jpg
>>|
>>
>> That reminds me of the thrill at first booting into the
>> exotic land of Linux. But it's also indicative of the low
>> expectations. "Wow. Nice. This looks as good as Windows!"
>> We don't really expect it to work. When it mimics a generic
>> Windows desktop background it feels like getting that old
>> car in the driveway to turn over after it's been sitting for
>> 3 months. "Wow. Nice. All it took was a jump. It probably
>> won't drive, but the engine sounds pretty good."
>
>Funny you should bring this up...
>
>ZDNet fed me an article today about the latest Linux based Windows(-like) clone.
>
>https://www.windowsfx.org
>
Slightly at a tangent : If you dont have a really good memory even
modern Linux distros can be a real time gobbler to use as soon as you
want to do anything off the simple user tracks of looking at Internet
pages etc. C+

Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net> wrote in
news:fae4lhtmlsp65h85lkc8vqr0e0i4o8tdk0@4ax.com:

<SNIP>

>>
>>Funny you should bring this up...
>>
>>ZDNet fed me an article today about the latest Linux based
>>Windows(-like) clone.
>>
>>https://www.windowsfx.org
>>
> Slightly at a tangent : If you dont have a really good
> memory even modern Linux distros can be a real time gobbler
> to use as soon as you want to do anything off the simple
> user tracks of looking at Internet pages etc. C+

Well....yes and no. It's not realy 'Linux' in/and of itself.

It's the lack of software choice, no matter what the distro. Most don't typically 'get work
done' using the OS itself, it's some sort of third-party software being used.

In the Win world, there's usually an array of software choices for any single task to be
completed. In the Linux world, it's usually one or two solid choices, *if* at all. On Linux,
I can use Ardour for a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation, ie- multi-track recording)..and,
that's it. The Windows options have at least five main, solid choices, plus a number of
'second level' selections. CAD? I'm not sure if there is any good CAD package that can
be used commercially. QCAD, FreeCAD? .....probably not

And the bigger problem with that, is they aren't *typically* the same choices, just on a
different platform. The 'option' is a completely different s/w package, and often, lacking
features, and/or 'buggy', and/or a different UX model, and/or hard to learn and use.

Much of this is due to the FOSS model, because let's face it, who wants to write
complicated/complex, feature-packed software that takes a huge effort, to give away
for free and then beg for money? There are some groups, but those are typically
'sponsored' by some comercial entity.

On 10/21/2022 2:37 AM, Charlie+ wrote:

>>
> Slightly at a tangent : If you dont have a really good memory even
> modern Linux distros can be a real time gobbler to use as soon as you
> want to do anything off the simple user tracks of looking at Internet
> pages etc. C+

These are the steps in a typical Linux LiveDVD boot.

"We have boot!" [Sometimes the screen turns black -- curse Jensen at NVidia]

"OK, I found where they're hiding the Terminal!" [rat bastards]

"Now, what have you monkeys done with Synaptic."
<Insert five line recipe into Terminal to make Synaptic appear>

Now, I can relax and enjoy :-)

*******

If you want to do hand-crafted computing, that takes time.

For example, this is me scraping my C: drive for any kind of image,
using Linux. Why are we doing it in Linux ? Because NTFS has no
permissions in Linux and "you can't hide from me, come out with
your hands up". Output here, is file.tar, containing 22000 images
including .ico files, GIF, JPG, PNG.

cd /media/mint/Windows11

find . -type f -exec file --mime-type {} \+ | awk -F: '{if ($2 ~/image\//) printf("%s%c", $1, 0)}' | tar -cvf /tmp/file.tar --null -T -

When the command failed, because Microsoft put a reparse point on
a certain folder, this is me returning to Windows, to zap the fucker.

rd /s OneDrive # I was really really really surprised, when this worked!

:-)

That command finds images without file extensions. The picture I wanted was:

Name: 2e6520164c2f8c03cb73ab1ebe7fddc9fb920f722e152d68d48db488791dd885
Size: 1,527,394 bytes (1491 KiB)
SHA1: E2D5A24A4C7449D8CF1EE6D8F8ADFCECCCFA3DC5

And that will be deleted off your computer, today or tomorrow or so.

So yes, some projects take time.

Paul

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote

|
| ZDNet fed me an article today about the latest Linux based Windows(-like)
clone.
| | https://www.windowsfx.org
| I've never heard of that. Not much at the website. It doesn't
even mention support for Windows software.

On 10/21/2022 2:19 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote
>
> |
> | ZDNet fed me an article today about the latest Linux based Windows(-like)
> clone.
> |
> | https://www.windowsfx.org
> |
> I've never heard of that. Not much at the website. It doesn't
> even mention support for Windows software.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/want-to-ditch-windows-windowsfx-may-be-the-ideal-linux-distribution-for-you/

KMail (+ basic KDE apps)
AnyDesk
Google Chrome
K3b <=== Like an Imgburn
ONLYOFFICE
Java 17 <=== No idea. Not oracle presumably.
Steam
VLC Media Player
Winetricks <=== the part of WINE that installs .NET for you

Presumably it's a Linux at heart.

The other items in the supported list (that I didn't copy into the list),
could be Linux versions of the applications in question.

Of course it's going to use WINE, if you force it to.
I would expect the mime type for EXE to point to WINE (or something,
just to get WINE launched).

You would expect the value of a thing like this, is properly
setting up WINE. If you set up WINE yourself, the result
will be pretty lame (because "you didn't press the right buttons").
That's happened more than once to me, didn't do it right.
It's much better if someone who is a WINE expert, punches
the buttons for you. (Installs the Microsoft font file set.)
I would expect multiple command line invocations of "winetricks"
are involved.

Paul

On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 08:34:30 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
as underneath :

>
> cd /media/mint/Windows11
>
> find . -type f -exec file --mime-type {} \+ | awk -F: '{if ($2 ~/image\//) printf("%s%c", $1, 0)}' | tar -cvf /tmp/file.tar --null -T -
>
>When the command failed, because Microsoft put a reparse point on
>a certain folder, this is me returning to Windows, to zap the fucker.
>
> rd /s OneDrive # I was really really really surprised, when this worked!
>
>:-)
Paul hats off to you! I could never attempt anything like that, it would
take me a couple of weeks to cobble the instruction together researching
each instruction separately and then by week 2 Id have forgotten every
obscure thing learned in week 1! As soon as I even run into Linux
permissions, GRUB problems etc., I know its a total waste of time for
me, I have to cut and run for the hills!. C+

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
| |
https://www.zdnet.com/article/want-to-ditch-windows-windowsfx-may-be-the-ideal-linux-distribution-for-you/
| | KMail (+ basic KDE apps)
| AnyDesk
| Google Chrome
| K3b <=== Like an Imgburn
| ONLYOFFICE
| Java 17 <=== No idea. Not oracle presumably.
| Steam
| VLC Media Player
| Winetricks <=== the part of WINE that installs .NET for you
| | Presumably it's a Linux at heart.
|

Thanks. It sounded interesting. I was imagining wildly, something
like an updated Crossover that works as well as Windows. But it
sounds like it's just another case of "a coffee can will work as a
colander if you have a drill on hand and your primary goal is not
cooking".

I've actually been very happy with Raspberry Pi, for about $100.
I'm using one to stream video to a TV. If I really needed to find a
usable Linux, I might be tempted with that. The space is slightly
limited, but upgradeable. It's not a desktop, but it can do pretty
much anything that Linux is worthy to be used for in a desktop
context.

"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> on Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:00:02
-0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>|
>|
>https://www.zdnet.com/article/want-to-ditch-windows-windowsfx-may-be-the-ideal-linux-distribution-for-you/
>|
>| KMail (+ basic KDE apps)
>| AnyDesk
>| Google Chrome
>| K3b <=== Like an Imgburn
>| ONLYOFFICE
>| Java 17 <=== No idea. Not oracle presumably.
>| Steam
>| VLC Media Player
>| Winetricks <=== the part of WINE that installs .NET for you
>|
>| Presumably it's a Linux at heart.
>|
>
> Thanks. It sounded interesting. I was imagining wildly, something
>like an updated Crossover that works as well as Windows. But it
>sounds like it's just another case of "a coffee can will work as a
>colander if you have a drill on hand and your primary goal is not
>cooking".
>
> I've actually been very happy with Raspberry Pi, for about $100.
>I'm using one to stream video to a TV. If I really needed to find a
>usable Linux, I might be tempted with that. The space is slightly
>limited, but upgradeable. It's not a desktop, but it can do pretty
>much anything that Linux is worthy to be used for in a desktop
>context.

Hmmm, sounds tempting.

Now, what do I need automated ...
>
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)