On 03.08.2021 at 06:40, Andreas Kohlbach scribbled:

> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 18:37:18 -0400, bad sector wrote:
> >
> > My earlier cited Healey ran out gas two blocks from a garage.
> > I made it on the starter, forget what gear; first electric car ever,
> > take THAT, Elon :-))
>
> Yes, the starter. I forgot about this.
>
> Similar, when my battery died I pushed the car on the road which
> conveniently went downhill just behind the house. Putting on 2nd gear
> and releasing the clutch would start the engine.

Been there too a couple of times. ;)

> AFAIK this is not working with automatic transmission.

Nope, it wouldn't work, indeed. A torque converter automatic has no
mechanical linkage between the flywheel and the driven wheels [*]. It's
essentially an oil pump, and it relies on the running engine for
providing torque to the transmission.

By consequence, a torque converter automatic with a non-running engine
is by definition always in "neutral" until the engine's running.

Using the inertia of the vehicle in order to jump-start the engine only
works with a manual, and for that matter, one that has a clutch pedal —
it also wouldn't work with an automated manual that has an electrically
controlled clutch, and dual-clutch transmissions are completely reliant
on electronics, so that wouldn't work either.

[*] Or that is to say, modern torque converter automatics do have a
mechanical link between the engine and the wheels when the torque
converter locks, but this only happens when the rpm of the engine
and the transmission are fully in sync, and thus it would require
the engine to be running.

Locking torque converters have been around for a long time already
— albeit that to the best of my knowledge, GM was the only
manufacturer that implemented it — but they would only lock in the
highest gear on 3-speed automatics or in the two highest gears on
4-speed automatics whereby the top gear was an overdrive and top
speed was attained in third gear. It was only with the advent of
6-speed automatics — under political pressure with regard to lower
emissions and higher fuel economy — that a mechanical torque
converter lock became implemented in all forward gears, including
first gear (but not in reverse).

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On 8/3/21 6:56 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 03/08/2021 10.26, Jasen Betts wrote:
>> On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:
>>> On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> ...
>
>> The last time I ran out of brakes and engine on a hill, I stopped by getting the car
>> sideways on a wide gravelly patch.
>
> Last time? So it has happened to you more than once? Wow.
>
> It has never happened to me, nor to anyone I know. How do you do
> maintenance? Here cars are subject to mandatory periodical inspections,
> and of course the brakes are inspected with some care.

In the old days we built whatever we wanted and
went on the road with it. I was 13 and all I needed
to get my unlimited driver license was $2 and be
tall enough for the city clerk to see me behind the
counter. Just like that I was licensed to drive any
road train. Now I need a bloody inquisition and a
papal bull (pun intended) to get freakin' lawn mower
trailer hooked up.

On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:

> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>
> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>
> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.

That reminds me of a bumper sticker I recently saw on a minivan:

I used to be cool.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

On 2021-08-03, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 18:37:18 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>
>> My earlier cited Healey ran out gas two blocks from a garage.
>> I made it on the starter, forget what gear; first electric car ever,
>> take THAT, Elon :-))
>
> Yes, the starter. I forgot about this.
>
> Similar, when my battery died I pushed the car on the road which
> conveniently went downhill just behind the house. Putting on 2nd gear and
> releasing the clutch would start the engine. AFAIK this is not working
> with automatic transmission.

Yup, been there too.

My favourite bit of engineering was in my 1984 Honda Civic.
The fan belt was also the timing belt that drove the camshaft,
and when the water pump seized the teeth were stripped off.
Except for about a quarter of an inch along one edge, which
was enough to keep the camshaft turning. I like to think
that the offset of the pulleys was deliberate for this very
reason. I was able to limp to my mechanic half a mile at a
time, stopping to let the engine cool in between.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

On 2021-08-03, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/08/2021 10.26, Jasen Betts wrote:
>> On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:
>>> On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> The last time I ran out of brakes and engine on a hill, I stopped by getting the car
>> sideways on a wide gravelly patch.
>
> Last time? So it has happened to you more than once? Wow.
>
> It has never happened to me, nor to anyone I know. How do you do
> maintenance? Here cars are subject to mandatory periodical inspections,
> and of course the brakes are inspected with some care.

The car had broken motor and was being towed to a mechanic (it should
have been on a truck or trailer but money was tight)

The previous was a light truck with dodgy gearbox, it jumped out of second
gear on a steep descent, and applying the brakes hard would cause the rear
wheels to lift off the road. I has a choice steer with both hands,
try to get it back into gear and steer one handed, apply the brakes
harder and loose all steering.

It ended leaving the road and busting a few small trees that were
growing wild on the road reserve. no extra damage was done to the
truck.

--
Jasen.

On 03/08/2021 20.32, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-08-03, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/08/2021 10.26, Jasen Betts wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:
>>>> On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> The last time I ran out of brakes and engine on a hill, I stopped by getting the car
>>> sideways on a wide gravelly patch.
>>
>> Last time? So it has happened to you more than once? Wow.
>>
>> It has never happened to me, nor to anyone I know. How do you do
>> maintenance? Here cars are subject to mandatory periodical inspections,
>> and of course the brakes are inspected with some care.
>
> The car had broken motor and was being towed to a mechanic (it should
> have been on a truck or trailer but money was tight)

{chuckle}

I don't think towing a car is legal here nowdays :-P

Or has to be done with a metal bar, not a chain or rope.

I do remember my father and my getting towed once, when I was a kid. The
thick rope broke a few times, but I think we managed to get to a village
with repair shops. The car was very small: google "seat 600" to see it.

> The previous was a light truck with dodgy gearbox, it jumped out of second
> gear on a steep descent, and applying the brakes hard would cause the rear
> wheels to lift off the road. I has a choice steer with both hands,
> try to get it back into gear and steer one handed, apply the brakes
> harder and loose all steering.
>
> It ended leaving the road and busting a few small trees that were
> growing wild on the road reserve. no extra damage was done to the
> truck.

Yes, the only cases I heard about of broken brakes were trucks or buses.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 03.08.21 um 12:35 schrieb Aragorn:
> On 03.08.2021 at 06:19, bad sector scribbled:
>
>> The human brain is unbelievably capable; admittedly that's
>> a conditional state. Still, thanks to electronics and digital
>> services today's cars are so loaded with suicidal safety-traps
>> that I wonder if we evolved from monkeys or they from us!
>
> I am fairly convinced that humans evolved from lemmings. :p
>

Some humans maybe. And then there are the Snit-types, with ancestors who
were to become cockroaches. And the rest has ancestors who became humans
and/or monkeys

On 2021-08-03, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
> On 03.08.2021 at 06:19, bad sector scribbled:
>
>> The human brain is unbelievably capable; admittedly that's
>> a conditional state. Still, thanks to electronics and digital
>> services today's cars are so loaded with suicidal safety-traps
>> that I wonder if we evolved from monkeys or they from us!
>
> I am fairly convinced that humans evolved from lemmings. :p

My wife runs a motorcycle training school. I'd be inclined
to agree :)

J