On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 17:58:54 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:

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> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 2023-02-19, Mike Easter wrote:
> > Nic wrote:
> >> What kind of shelf life can we expect from this Debian based
> >> Mint?
> >
> > Historically, each LMDE v. support lasted 2 y. This current LMDE 5
> > EOL has not yet been announced. Historically the Deb parent such
> > as Buster
>
> I'd hazard that LMDE will survive until the end of this year (2023),
> with LMDE 6 and LM22 releasing early 2024.
>
> > was 3 y. The current Deb Bullseye was released 2022 and its
> > *Debian* security support ends 2025. There is some kind of 3rd
> > party support to help a Debian have longer term support to 5 y.
>
> Partially correct -- Debian Security keeps a release going for ~3
> years, then hands off to the Debian LTS Team for an additional 2
> years. After that, the "third party" support is for extended LTS
> (which may or may not actually exist for a given version).
>
> Long as you stay with "Debian Stable", chances are you're not going to
> run into too much trouble.
>
> >> How difficult if possible is it to switch over from the Ubuntu
> >> Mint,
> >
> > I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I would say don't even
> > think about 'converting' a LM install to a LMDE install.
>
> You can't "convert" Ubuntu LM to LMDE (or vice versa) -- gotta pave
> over everything and install from scratch.
>
> >
> >> and if possible transfer some personal preferences from Mint
> >> Ubuntu?
> >
> > Well, you can export/import browser bookmarks. Which preferences
> > did you have in mind? If they belong to some app's profile,
> > like .moz's, you should be able to do that.
>
> Backups of $HOME will almost certainly work between the various LM
> versions (provided you're going "forwards").
>

>

Thanks for your advice, it sounds good. Before I get deeper into the
Mint universe I need to explore Debian. Thanks

Nic wrote:
> Before I get deeper into the
> Mint universe I need to explore Debian.

There are lots of ways to do that. You can use the various iterations
of Debian itself, including the LMDE; and there are many distro/s which
are based on Debian, like LMDE is.

Then, there is the issue of which DE (or even WM window manager) you
want 'on top of' Debian. In the case of LMDE, the 'default' or booting
live is just Cinnamon, but other Debian based distro/s have other
desktops to choose from. And Debian itself also has a lot of choices.

However, the business about rolling vs 'semi-rolling' is an important
distinction; there are a lot fewer distro/s in the former categroy. A
typical example of a semi-rolling is Sparky. Another popular one is MX
Linux. And a very popular 'truly' rolling release is Manjaro, which is
based on Arch instead of Debian and also has /many/ choices of desktops
including Cinnamon.

--
Mike Easter

On 2/18/23 17:59, Monsieur wrote:
> Big Al wrote:
>

>
> Mint, are you listening? We want our windows borders and buttons back. :-)

Don't be silly, they never listened to what users want and they never will.

Try to file a bug ( for education purpose ) they made that
next to impossible.

Edmund

--
“The further a society drifts from the truth,
the more it will hate those who speak it”

George Orwell

On 2023-02-19, Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>
> On 2023-02-19, Mike Easter wrote:
>> Nic wrote:
>>> What kind of shelf life can we expect from this Debian based Mint?
>>
>> Historically, each LMDE v. support lasted 2 y. This current LMDE 5 EOL
>> has not yet been announced. Historically the Deb parent such as Buster
>
> I'd hazard that LMDE will survive until the end of this year (2023),
> with LMDE 6 and LM22 releasing early 2024.
>
>> was 3 y. The current Deb Bullseye was released 2022 and its *Debian*
>> security support ends 2025. There is some kind of 3rd party support to
>> help a Debian have longer term support to 5 y.
>
> Partially correct -- Debian Security keeps a release going for ~3 years,
> then hands off to the Debian LTS Team for an additional 2 years. After
> that, the "third party" support is for extended LTS (which may or may
> not actually exist for a given version).
>
> Long as you stay with "Debian Stable", chances are you're not going to
> run into too much trouble.

I don't know if folks know this, but Debian also has a whole collection of
live .iso images with most of the desktops (both 64 bit and 32 bit). At the
following link you'll find live images for 64-bit gnome, kde, lxqt, lxde,
xfce, mate and cinnamon (and it pretty much installs exactly like Linux
Mint). You'll have to add Synaptic (and some other packages) if you want
them.

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

They also offer the same collection in 32 bit (again, live, easy to
install).

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/

I've installed the 32 bit version of Mate on a couple old laptops. Works
well. These two directories are all currently Bullseye 11.6.0, but you can
go older if you want.

That said, I wouldn't be afraid to use the LMDE if something happened to the
main line Linux Mint flavors.

>>> How difficult if possible is it to switch over from the Ubuntu Mint,
>>
>> I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I would say don't even think
>> about 'converting' a LM install to a LMDE install.
>
> You can't "convert" Ubuntu LM to LMDE (or vice versa) -- gotta pave over
> everything and install from scratch.
>
>>
>>> and if possible transfer some personal preferences from Mint Ubuntu?
>>
>> Well, you can export/import browser bookmarks. Which preferences did
>> you have in mind? If they belong to some app's profile, like .moz's,
>> you should be able to do that.
>
> Backups of $HOME will almost certainly work between the various LM
> versions (provided you're going "forwards").
>
>
>

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2023-02-20, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> Before I get deeper into the
>> Mint universe I need to explore Debian.
>
> There are lots of ways to do that. You can use the various iterations
> of Debian itself, including the LMDE; and there are many distro/s which
> are based on Debian, like LMDE is.
>
> Then, there is the issue of which DE (or even WM window manager) you
> want 'on top of' Debian. In the case of LMDE, the 'default' or booting
> live is just Cinnamon, but other Debian based distro/s have other
> desktops to choose from. And Debian itself also has a lot of choices.
>
> However, the business about rolling vs 'semi-rolling' is an important
> distinction; there are a lot fewer distro/s in the former categroy. A
> typical example of a semi-rolling is Sparky. Another popular one is MX
> Linux. And a very popular 'truly' rolling release is Manjaro, which is
> based on Arch instead of Debian and also has /many/ choices of desktops
> including Cinnamon.

I like trailing edge instead of cutting edge, so Linux Mint works well for
me with its long term support releases.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2023-02-20, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> Before I get deeper into the
>> Mint universe I need to explore Debian.
>
> There are lots of ways to do that. You can use the various iterations
> of Debian itself, including the LMDE; and there are many distro/s which
> are based on Debian, like LMDE is.
>
> Then, there is the issue of which DE (or even WM window manager) you
> want 'on top of' Debian. In the case of LMDE, the 'default' or booting
> live is just Cinnamon, but other Debian based distro/s have other
> desktops to choose from. And Debian itself also has a lot of choices.
>
> However, the business about rolling vs 'semi-rolling' is an important
> distinction; there are a lot fewer distro/s in the former categroy. A
> typical example of a semi-rolling is Sparky. Another popular one is MX
> Linux. And a very popular 'truly' rolling release is Manjaro, which is
> based on Arch instead of Debian and also has /many/ choices of desktops
> including Cinnamon.

When I install Debian I pick the Live .isos prebuilt for Mate, Cinnamon,
Gnome, KDE, LXQT and LXDE. The Mate version (at least) looks almost like a
Linux Mint install.

64 bit choices (current, Bullseye 11.6.0)...

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

32 bit choices (also current, Bullseye 11.6.0)...

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/

I tried to post a similar post earlier, but I don't think it went through.
If it did, sorry for the redundancy.

I've used the 32 bit Mate Debian install on a couple old laptops. Worked
well. Almost like Linux Mint Mate, except missing some stuff like automatic
updater and synaptics (which can be installed separately. I just use "apt
update" and "apt upgrade" on a semi-regular basis. If you want a current 32
bit installation (and are used to Debian-based distributions), this is a
really good choice.

That said, I would have no trouble going with LMDE if it came down to that.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2023-02-20, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-02-19, Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 2023-02-19, Mike Easter wrote:
>>> Nic wrote:
>>>> What kind of shelf life can we expect from this Debian based Mint?
>>>
>>> Historically, each LMDE v. support lasted 2 y. This current LMDE 5 EOL
>>> has not yet been announced. Historically the Deb parent such as Buster
>>
>> I'd hazard that LMDE will survive until the end of this year (2023),
>> with LMDE 6 and LM22 releasing early 2024.
>>
>>> was 3 y. The current Deb Bullseye was released 2022 and its *Debian*
>>> security support ends 2025. There is some kind of 3rd party support to
>>> help a Debian have longer term support to 5 y.
>>
>> Partially correct -- Debian Security keeps a release going for ~3 years,
>> then hands off to the Debian LTS Team for an additional 2 years. After
>> that, the "third party" support is for extended LTS (which may or may
>> not actually exist for a given version).
>>
>> Long as you stay with "Debian Stable", chances are you're not going to
>> run into too much trouble.
>
> I don't know if folks know this, but Debian also has a whole collection of
> live .iso images with most of the desktops (both 64 bit and 32 bit). At the
> following link you'll find live images for 64-bit gnome, kde, lxqt, lxde,
> xfce, mate and cinnamon (and it pretty much installs exactly like Linux
> Mint). You'll have to add Synaptic (and some other packages) if you want
> them.
>
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
>
> They also offer the same collection in 32 bit (again, live, easy to
> install).
>
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/
>
> I've installed the 32 bit version of Mate on a couple old laptops. Works
> well. These two directories are all currently Bullseye 11.6.0, but you can
> go older if you want.
>
> That said, I wouldn't be afraid to use the LMDE if something happened to the
> main line Linux Mint flavors.

I guess my original post DID go through, despite what slrn said. Sorry for
the redundancy.

>>>> How difficult if possible is it to switch over from the Ubuntu Mint,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I would say don't even think
>>> about 'converting' a LM install to a LMDE install.
>>
>> You can't "convert" Ubuntu LM to LMDE (or vice versa) -- gotta pave over
>> everything and install from scratch.
>>
>>>
>>>> and if possible transfer some personal preferences from Mint Ubuntu?
>>>
>>> Well, you can export/import browser bookmarks. Which preferences did
>>> you have in mind? If they belong to some app's profile, like .moz's,
>>> you should be able to do that.
>>
>> Backups of $HOME will almost certainly work between the various LM
>> versions (provided you're going "forwards").

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2023-02-18, Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/18/23 10:26, this is what Mike Easter wrote:
>> Nic wrote:
>>> Since v19.1 is going to end support in April 2023, if I upgrade to v19.3 what is the last support date for 19.3?
>>>
>> The same.  The entire 19 series.
>>
> LM 20.x isn't such a leap. I found it almost identical.
> Now 20.3 to 21.x to me is a quantum leap. Teamviewer that I use for support does not install properly in 21. It
> installs, but keys for update manager are in the wrong files and you have to fix it by removing them. And the UI is
> much flatter. The new UI that even Windows seems to be adopting. Which I don't like. No borders around windows, you
> can't see where one black rectangle starts and stops when overlaying others. They dropped the metacity header and
> borders code.
>
> Those are just a few of MY complaints.

Play around with the themes, and mint-X style. Add a bit of high constrast.

On 2/21/23 02:26, this is what Gordon wrote:
> On 2023-02-18, Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 2/18/23 10:26, this is what Mike Easter wrote:
>>> Nic wrote:
>>>> Since v19.1 is going to end support in April 2023, if I upgrade to v19.3 what is the last support date for 19.3?
>>>>
>>> The same.  The entire 19 series.
>>>
>> LM 20.x isn't such a leap. I found it almost identical.
>> Now 20.3 to 21.x to me is a quantum leap. Teamviewer that I use for support does not install properly in 21. It
>> installs, but keys for update manager are in the wrong files and you have to fix it by removing them. And the UI is
>> much flatter. The new UI that even Windows seems to be adopting. Which I don't like. No borders around windows, you
>> can't see where one black rectangle starts and stops when overlaying others. They dropped the metacity header and
>> borders code.
>>
>> Those are just a few of MY complaints.
>
> Play around with the themes, and mint-X style. Add a bit of high constrast.
I have a few custom themes but the issue still lies in mint's overall theming. Some things you just can't get around.
If they dropped the "border" logic as was in metacity theming then there isn't a replacement/way to generate it.
Some windows do luck out to have the coloring needed to be unique. Don't get me wrong, but it's not an EVERY window issue.
--
Al