I really like Dialog ever since Bernd turned me on to it.
But I also like Notepad++ just as much.

Can I set 40tude dialog to edit new articles in Notepad++?
I don't need 40tude dialog to do anything else in Notepad++.

I don't see the option in Settings >> General Settings >> Misc.

Google says "It looks like there aren't many great matches."
<https://www.google.com/search?q=40tude+dialog+scripts+notepad%2B%2B>

Regards,
bill
--
Why can't pencils move?
Because they are stationery

On Wed, 11st Aug 2021 05:03:41 +0200, bill wrote:

> Can I set 40tude dialog to edit new articles in Notepad++?
> I don't need 40tude dialog to do anything else in Notepad++.

Not really. It is possible per script to save messages from Dialog
to disk. And it should also be possible for this script to open the
saved message in Notepad++ per shell execution command issued from
Dialog. Moreover, it would also be possible to reload the content
of the saved file to Dialog per script. But the whole process would
be somewhat difficult to implement and probably not seem seamless
enough for a good usage experience.

I suggest to use normal Windows functionality for this task, if you
really want to go this way: Assign a hotkey to Notepad++ and use
SelectAll, Cut or Copy, Paste keyboard commands to move the text
between both programs.

Please note, that if you do not re-edit the text afterwards in the
Dialog compose window, you loose the ability for Dialog specific
functions like inserting WrapOverride and spoiler characters. IIRC,
both do not survive copy/paste *back* into Dialog, because Dialog
regards these characters not as part of the text itself and strips
(or special encodes? I do not really remember, ATM) them on insert.
In any case: They loose their function on insert.

HTH.
Bernd

bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> I really like Dialog ever since Bernd turned me on to it.
> But I also like Notepad++ just as much.
>
> Can I set 40tude dialog to edit new articles in Notepad++?
> I don't need 40tude dialog to do anything else in Notepad++.
>
> I don't see the option in Settings >> General Settings >> Misc.
>
> Google says "It looks like there aren't many great matches."
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=40tude+dialog+scripts+notepad%2B%2B>

Open Notepad++, and compose your messaged. Copy-n-paste into a
new-message window in Dialog. That's all I can recommend. Dialog was
abandoned 16 years ago, if not a bit earlier.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 06:05:21 +0200, Bernd Rose wrote:
> Not really. It is possible per script to save messages from Dialog
> to disk. And it should also be possible for this script to open the
> saved message in Notepad++ per shell execution command issued from
> Dialog. Moreover, it would also be possible to reload the content
> of the saved file to Dialog per script. But the whole process would
> be somewhat difficult to implement and probably not seem seamless
> enough for a good usage experience.

I'm not a script writer so unless the script exists (or a similar modifiable
script exists), I think that approach, for me, would be fraught with
failure, as you seem to already inherently be aware of.

> I suggest to use normal Windows functionality for this task, if you
> really want to go this way: Assign a hotkey to Notepad++ and use
> SelectAll, Cut or Copy, Paste keyboard commands to move the text
> between both programs.

Here's what I currently have been doing that I wanted to improve upon.
1) While in 40tude dialog I navigate with the typical shortcuts
N ==> Skip to next unread message
Ctrl+N ==> View/get next unread message
U ==> Up to previous message
D ==> Down to next message
T ==> Skip to next unread message in thread
Ctrl+T ==> View/get next unread message in thread
B ==> Skip to next unread message body
S ==> Skip to next unread newsgroup
F ==> Followup to newsgroup
P ==> New post to newsgroup
etcetera

2) When it's time to compose, I type into this Dialog compose window
Control+A (this selects everything in the current dialog composition)
Control+X (this cuts everything and puts it into the clipboard buffer)
[WindowsKey]r n [Return] (without any spaces - this brings up notepad++)

That brings up Notepad++ where I can then use the Notepad++ shortcuts
Control+V (this will paste everything from Dialog into Notepad++)

3) After composing the response in Notepad++ I bring it back to Dialog with
Control+A (this will select everything in the Notepad++ composition)
Control+X (this will cut everything from the Notepad++ composition)

I bring up the Dialog composition window by clicking on the taskbar
Control+V (paste everything that was in the Notepad++ composition)

I was simply hoping to streamline this setup to fewer explicit steps.

> Please note, that if you do not re-edit the text afterwards in the
> Dialog compose window, you loose the ability for Dialog specific
> functions like inserting WrapOverride and spoiler characters. IIRC,
> both do not survive copy/paste *back* into Dialog, because Dialog
> regards these characters not as part of the text itself and strips
> (or special encodes? I do not really remember, ATM) them on insert.
> In any case: They loose their function on insert.

I have often started a composition in Dialog which made use of
Control+Shift+O (there is a little box to the left of this looooooooooooong line)

But when it's pasted back into Dialog from Notepad, it turns into this:
�ontrol+Shift+O (there are two boxes to the left of this looooooooooooong line)

What happens is the original has a box and then the "C" in "Control".
But the results have two boxes (in the composition) and the "C" is missing.

I never understood why that happened.
(Next I type "a a a" in succession which is my salutation thanks to you.)
Regards,
bill
--
What do you call a pencil sharpener that can't sharpen pencils?
Broken

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:35:42 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> Open Notepad++, and compose your messaged. Copy-n-paste into a
> new-message window in Dialog. That's all I can recommend. Dialog was
> abandoned 16 years ago, if not a bit earlier.

That's what I was worried about & it's what I've been doing every since you
and Bernd turned me on to this otherwise wonderful 40Tude Dialog newsreader.

To open notepad while I'm in Dialog I can type [WindowsKey][r][n][EnterKey]
That brings up Notepad++ from within anywhere while I'm in 40Tude Dialog.

To be more clear, I could have typed [WindowsKey][r][notepad++][EnterKey]
from within Dialog but that would be too many clicks to do the same task.

So in my registry I have "n" defined to bring up Notepad++ using App Paths:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\
n.exe === C:\program files\notepad++\notepad++.exe

Just in case you're worried, this little trick requires that an "n.exe" not
exist (not in the path anyway) and, in fact, "n.exe" in my case doesn't
exist anywhere. It is just the syntax needed to create an app path key.

If I combine Bernd's suggestion of having Dialog save to a specific file,
that's just as easy to modify the "n" key to edit that specific dialog file.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\
n.exe === C:\My Documents\bill\40tude\dialog_composition_file.txt

In that case, if I type [WindowsKey][r][n][EnterKey], it will bring up that
dialog-saved file.txt in the default editor (which could be Notepad++).

I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the composition to a
given location but I can't find the saved draft in a text-editable format.

Regards,
bill
--
Have you read the article about broken pencils?
I hope not, the reviewers said it's pointless and lead on for too long.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 17:14:32 +0200
bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:35:42 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> > Open Notepad++, and compose your messaged. Copy-n-paste into a
> > new-message window in Dialog. That's all I can recommend. Dialog was
> > abandoned 16 years ago, if not a bit earlier.
>
> That's what I was worried about & it's what I've been doing every since you
> and Bernd turned me on to this otherwise wonderful 40Tude Dialog newsreader.
>
> To open notepad while I'm in Dialog I can type [WindowsKey][r][n][EnterKey]
> That brings up Notepad++ from within anywhere while I'm in 40Tude Dialog.
>

Windows (well my XP flavour!) allows you to assign a shortcut key to a desktop icon - I just assigned N to Notepad [I've already cheated and overwrote the old notepad.exe with Notepad2]

This allows Ctrl-Alt-N to open Notepad2. {You don't get any option but to have the "Ctrl-Alt-" part}

[]

> If I combine Bernd's suggestion of having Dialog save to a specific file,
> that's just as easy to modify the "n" key to edit that specific dialog file.
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\
> n.exe === C:\My Documents\bill\40tude\dialog_composition_file.txt
>
> In that case, if I type [WindowsKey][r][n][EnterKey], it will bring up that
> dialog-saved file.txt in the default editor (which could be Notepad++).
>
> I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the composition to a
> given location but I can't find the saved draft in a text-editable format.
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 2021-08-11, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Windows (well my XP flavour!) allows you to assign a shortcut key
> to a desktop icon - I just assigned N to Notepad
> [I've already cheated and overwrote the old notepad.exe with Notepad2]

Hi there ker-muhj-uhn,

Windows 10 isn't much different than XP except in the pretty background.
In Dialog I tried [control][alt][n] which did nothing (it's a good start).

> This allows Ctrl-Alt-N to open Notepad2.

I went to my taskbar menu shortcut for notepad++.lnk to set properties.
It wouldn't let me type anything but a single character such as [n].
It asked for Administrator Permission which I said "OK" to.
But then when I typed [control][alt][n] nothing happened.

Googling I found maybe it must be in the start menu apparently?
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+set+shortcut+key+in+windows+10

I'm not sure why it doesn't work with ANY shortcut, but maybe it has to be a
shortcut that is in the path?

Anyway, that worked by setting the start menu Notepad++ shortcut.

I always use the WinXP style menus (which is simply a menu folder pinned to
the taskbar) so I would never use the Win10 start menu and I often clear it
out so I'm lucky it was still there.

> {You don't get any option but to have the "Ctrl-Alt-" part}

I just tried it in this composition Window and it worked nicely.
That saves a few keystrokes.

Here's kind of what I do (although circumstances dictate the steps).
0. In Dialog on interesting threads I press [shift][w]
This runs a keep-and-highlight script previously supplied by Bernd.
1. I then read an article that I wish to reply to by pressing [f]
2. In the 40tude dialog composition window I press [control][a]
3. Then [control][x]
4. Now (thanks to you) I press [control][alt][n]
5. Then [control][v]
6. Then I can edit to my heart's content and when I'm ready to return
7. In Notepad++ I press [control][a][control][x][alt][f4] (which kills it)
8. Back in Dialog I press [control][v]
9. In Dialog I press "a_a_a" (without the underscore)
This runs a dictionary replace from Bernd which does my salutation.
10. The only mouse action is to send this article to the nntp server.

Regards,
bill
--
Choosing pencils is impossible for me, I'm always confused with the amount
of blackness I need. 2B or not 2B, that is the question.

bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> To open notepad while I'm in Dialog I can type [WindowsKey][r][n][EnterKey]
> That brings up Notepad++ from within anywhere while I'm in 40Tude Dialog.
>
> To be more clear, I could have typed [WindowsKey][r][notepad++][EnterKey]
> from within Dialog but that would be too many clicks to do the same task.

I do NOT auto-hide the Windows Taskbar, the default. I added several
toolbars to let me group programs. Whatever program I'm in, I just
double-click the shortcut in a toolbar. A double-click is a lot shorter
than using the Start menu search. I use toolbars in the Taskbar as a
quick-access method to programs (double-click), even faster than using
the Start menu's search <Start>string<arrowkeys><Enter>, or bringing up
the Run dialog using <Win+R>string<Enter>.

If a program is windowed, even if maximized, the Taskbar is shown. Only
if a program is fullscreened is the Taskbar obliterated. Dialog doesn't
support fullscreen mode (F11 does nothing in Dialog).

* bill:

> I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the composition to a
> given location but I can't find the saved draft in a text-editable format.

It should be in the Drafts folder.

--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
.... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 12:52:08 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> I do NOT auto-hide the Windows Taskbar, the default.

You and Bernd have helped me a lot since I moved to Dialog which I
appreciate greatly as you have detailed words of wisdom as much as Bernd's
are more terse (but just as wise).

(Bernd doesn't try to lecture as much as you do - as his patience is thinner
than yours is - Bernd just gives up when someone does something he doesn't
like whereas you try to set them on the straight path - which is OK too.)

To your concerns, I have multiple monitors where I keep the taskbar for each
on the side to save the most important real estate in today's wide-ratio
monitors.

For the left monitor, I have the taskbar in the right side.
For the right monitor, the taskbar matches it by being on its left side.

Both have all the normal settings to make them as small as possible.

But Notepad++ isn't on that taskbar for the simple reason that no program
that is used as an editor is on the taskbar for the simple reason that you
rarely just open an editor in normal use. You open a file. At least I do.

So my valuable taskbar space only has shortcuts to programs that you do open
up to nothing (although many, like browsers, open to specific places).

> I added several toolbars to let me group programs.

Like you, I use taskbar toolbars to my advantage (they cascade nicely).

Long ago, the instant I moved off of WinXP, I copied my WinXP menu to each
successive Windows and simply added the menu hierarchy as a taskbar toolbar.

WinXP cascade pullout accordion menus never left Windows.

I copy them over from old to new PCs and almost all the shortcuts work
perfectly without changing anything (I install all software in the same
places of course).

> Whatever program I'm in, I just
> double-click the shortcut in a toolbar. A double-click is a lot shorter
> than using the Start menu search.

I agree with you so much that I periodically clean out the Start Menu.
Both the alphabetical Start Menu and the idiotic tiled Start Menu.
They're usually empty (just in case I accidentally hit their open keys.)

I was lucky that the shortcut to Notepad++ was in the almost empty StartMenu
(it must have been re-created during an update as my StartMenu is normally
empty).

I did ask over on the Windows newsgroup just now why the taskbar toolbar
shortcut to Notepad++ couldn't be assigned a shortcut key.

> I use toolbars in the Taskbar as a
> quick-access method to programs (double-click), even faster than using
> the Start menu's search <Start>string<arrowkeys><Enter>, or bringing up
> the Run dialog using <Win+R>string<Enter>.

As I said, I have a WinXP style menu toolbar attached to the Windows 10
taskbar which accesses every program I want to access, in the hierarchies I
want them accessed, and without the other crap that they add to the
StartMenu (you know what crap I mean I'm sure).

I also have a permanent non-hidden taskbar (small icons, no labels) where I
store the critical programs (mostly browsers and programs I need to run
fast, like network kill switches or taskkill commands).

[A warning here is that tasks which need to be run fast MUST have shortcuts,
simply because they usually involved the UAC popups which you don't want to
deal with so you have to put the shortcuts in the task scheduler. I'm think
you know what I mean there but ask if you're unsure.]

Sos my taskbar is already taken up with those two things.
1. Network and app kill switches which must be run fast
2. Non-editing apps (mostly browsers) which I use frequently

If I need to access any given file, I just put the file name into the run
menu. For example, for my todo list, I type "todo" into the run menu, or for
my phone list, I just type "phone" into the run menu, etc.

All that file editing is done more efficiently using the App Paths key.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\
todo.exe === c:\Users\bill\My Documents\todo.txt
phone.exe === c:\Users\bill\My Documents\phone.txt
serialz.exe === c:\Users\bill\My Documents\serialz.txt
etcetera

> If a program is windowed, even if maximized, the Taskbar is shown. Only
> if a program is fullscreened is the Taskbar obliterated. Dialog doesn't
> support fullscreen mode (F11 does nothing in Dialog).

While I keep my taskbars permanent, my main beef with the Win10 taskbar on
dual monitors is you can't make them EXACTLY the same (they're slightly
different).

Luckily I found a use for that slight difference which is that you can
maintain your PC on one time zone and switch to another with a script that
constantly changes the system time zone (for fingerprinting privacy).

One taskbar can have the system time zone (which is constantly changing on a
pseudo random interval) while the other taskbar can show the local time
(which doesn't depend on the system time).

As you can see I make extensive use of the "Run" sequence where it's one of
my icons in the taskbar (Run.lnk) because I use it so much. There's nothing
that the Run.lnk shortcut can't do, so for anything you do frequently, you
can just put it in the "App Paths" registry key and then you can "Run" it
anytime you want.

The great advantage is that one icon runs everything so it is worth the
space it takes on the taskbar. You just need to remember all your Run
commands, which, itself, is one of the commands in Run.
Run->run (which brings up a list of all the Run commands you created)

Never forget the beauty of these well thought out systems is they work the
same on ALL PCs, whether they're Win95 or WinXP or Win7, Vista, etcetera.

Everything copies over perfectly and usually works on the first test.

Regards,
bill
--
A blind girl lost her pencil, her ring, and her dog, what did she lose
first? Her eye sight.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:23:43 -0400, Quinn C wrote:
>> I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the composition to a
>> given location but I can't find the saved draft in a text-editable format.
>
> It should be in the Drafts folder.

It "should" be.

But there is no "Drafts" folder that I know of in my Dialog hierarchy.
40tude Dialog has folders for {locale,maps,Scripts,dicts,logs,temp,data}.
If the saved draft is in a text-editable file somewhere, I'd love to know.

Regards,
bill
--
Here is a joke about a pencil with a broken tip.
Never mind it is pointless.

On Wed, 11st Aug 2021 20:36:51 +0200, bill wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:23:43 -0400, Quinn C wrote:
>>> I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the composition to a
>>> given location but I can't find the saved draft in a text-editable format.
>>
>> It should be in the Drafts folder.
>
> It "should" be.
>
> But there is no "Drafts" folder that I know of in my Dialog hierarchy.
> 40tude Dialog has folders for {locale,maps,Scripts,dicts,logs,temp,data}.
> If the saved draft is in a text-editable file somewhere, I'd love to know.

Quinn was talking about the Drafts folder (= a special "group") name inside
the Newsgroups list of a running Dialog.

Drafts are stored in-memory and when they are saved by closing the Compose
window, they are stored like any other message inside msg*.dat files in the
data directory of 40tude Dialog with header lines saved elsewhere. Nothing
to be messed with any external program.

Bernd

bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> Quinn C wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the
>>> composition to a given location but I can't find the saved draft in
>>> a text-editable format.
>>
>> It should be in the Drafts folder.
>
> It "should" be.
>
> But there is no "Drafts" folder that I know of in my Dialog hierarchy.
> 40tude Dialog has folders for {locale,maps,Scripts,dicts,logs,temp,data}.
> If the saved draft is in a text-editable file somewhere, I'd love to
> know.

Quinn probably means the Drafts folder in the hierarchical list of
folders in the message store. There is no Drafts folder in the file
system. Dialog has its Data folder in the file system, but it's a mess
trying to figure which <n>.<ext> file is for what.

When you have Dialog compact its message store (File -> Compact), it
first saves a copy, by default (you can override), of the current
message store under a DATA_OLD<n> folder in the file system. If
compacting results in a corrupted or unusable message store, you can
revert to the old one that was created just before the compaction began.
There is no setting on how many old copies to keep (no backup retention
count), so eventually you'll want to delete the oldest DATA_OLD<n>
folders.

ASIDE: Just now, I noticed I had DATA_OLD and 4 DATA_OLD<n> folders.
I haven't had a problem since the last compaction, so I really only
need 1 old copy, so I deleted the DATA_OLD<n> folders to recover 1.52
GB of disk space, and just kept the DATA_OLD folder. Since I schedule
daily image backups (month full @ 52-week retention, weekly
differential @ 12- week retention, and daily incrementals @ 1-week
retention), so even the DATA_OLD folder is superfluous, but I keep it,
anyway. I just have to remember occasionally to delete the
DATA_OLD<n> folders since I'm not going back that far for a message
store state, plus I probably do compaction only about twice a year, if
that. At one time, I used to visit about 52 newsgroups. I'm down to
21. Not as much data (messages) to store. I have Dialog configured
to download complete messages instead of just headers (and then wait
until I select a message to download it). That way, I get all headers
(overview and non-overview headers) and body on which I can test in my
filters, not just the overview headers.

So, there are DATA[_OLD[n]] subfolders under Dialog's installation
folder. Somewhere under there would be where the "Draft" folder in
Dialog's message store structure. I'm sure the numbered files meant
something to the program's author, but they are meaningless to the rest
of us. The messages are stored in .dat database files. I didn't see an
identifying string near the top of a .dat file to indicate which
database structure was used to manage the .dat files. Each .dat
database file is not wholly self-contained. There are also .idx files
which are probably indexes to records within the .dat files, and .ini
files that hint at some formatting or view settings. Without knowing
what database program was used, or without knowing the database's record
delimiters and record structures, digging into those files would be
fruitless. You could try copying the DATA folder to somewhere else,
like into %temp%, and experimenting with mySQL to see if the database
files use SQL structure. If SQL structure, you could issue queries
using mySQL to read the database.

However, that still does not give you a text-only formatted file in
which messages (retrieved, drafts, sent, etc) are stored. If mySQL
works to dig out the messages, and after discovering which <n>.dat file
is for the Drafts "folder" shown in Dialog, you would have to make SQL
inquiries to extract messages. You'd edit or do whatever with the
extracted record, and then have to use an SQL directive to store the
text back into the database to overwrite the old record. Yeah, right.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:48:07 +0200, bill wrote:

[Assign keyboard shortcut to open Notepad++]
> I went to my taskbar menu shortcut for notepad++.lnk to set properties.
> It wouldn't let me type anything but a single character such as [n].

Each of <n>, <ctrl><n> and <ctrl><alt><n> should all result in the keyboard
shortcut <ctrl><alt><n> and should be shown in the shortcut entry field of
the properties Dialog as <CTRL + ALT + N>.

> It asked for Administrator Permission which I said "OK" to.

It should only do this, if you created the taskbar shortcut with Admin
rights. When created with your normal user rights, the Properties Dialog
should accept the shortcut without requesting Admin permissions.

> But then when I typed [control][alt][n] nothing happened.

Maybe, because you created the shortcut with Admin rights, but executed
it with user rights?

Keyboard shortcuts should be accepted by Windows from taskbar, desktop
and start menu shortcut icons.
Bernd

On Wed, 11st Aug 2021 15:02:35 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

[40tude Dialog database]
> Without knowing what database program was used

None. The "database" is a proprietary invention of Marcus.

> without knowing the database's record delimiters and record structures

No delimiters. Most 40tude Dialog database files have a header and a
"fixed record length" data structure. The most important exception are
the msg*.dat files, which contain the message texts one behind the other;
mostly in the order of creation/retrieval. The start and endpoint of
these messages inside these files are stored inside the group specific
files of the database.

> digging into those files would be fruitless.

And extremely dangerous. One false bit in the wrong place may render
the whole database unreadable...

> However, that still does not give you a text-only formatted file in
> which messages (retrieved, drafts, sent, etc) are stored.

Oliver Cromm wrote a Ruby script many years ago to extract raw messages
from the database. I don't recall, if it could be tweaked to extract
drafts, as well. It doesn't matter, though. This way would be even more
complicated than writing a script saving the draft from memory and
reload it later on. - Let alone the simple copy/paste approach...

> Yeah, right.

;-)

Bernd

bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> I went to my taskbar menu shortcut for notepad++.lnk to set properties.
> It wouldn't let me type anything but a single character such as [n].
> It asked for Administrator Permission which I said "OK" to.
> But then when I typed [control][alt][n] nothing happened.

Shortcut hotkeys seem to have a limited scope. Most times and in many
places where I have shortcuts, they don't work for me. Only if the
shortcut (.lnk file) is on the desktop (%userprofile%\desktop) or in the
Start folder ("%appdata%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu" on Win10, don't
remember for WinXP) does the shortcut's hotkey work. Might also work in
a subfolder under the desktop folder.

Microsoft as repurposed many KB article numbers, so URLs to some old web
pages, especially for unsupported versions of Microsoft, like Windows
XP, are no longer available. By my recollection of a then-existing KB
article said shortcut keys only work when the shortcuts are on the
desktop or under the Start menu hierarchy.

Do you have a shortcut in the Start menu somewhere? Or on your desktop?
I noticed that using a hotkey for a shortcut will load the program, but
there is a lag before the program loads. I would also make sure the
shortcut with hotkey (on desktop or in Start menu) points to an
executable file, not to a data file which operates by filetype
association.

For me, shortcut hotkeys have little value since I tend to keep my
desktop folder trimmed. I like order and neatness. The insides of my
computer are likewise. So is my home, car, and work and lab desks. I
got ribbed at work that no one can tell if I have been at my desks.

* Bernd Rose:

> On Wed, 11st Aug 2021 20:36:51 +0200, bill wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:23:43 -0400, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> I was hoping Dialog's "Save & Close Draft" would save the composition to a
>>>> given location but I can't find the saved draft in a text-editable format.
>>>
>>> It should be in the Drafts folder.
>>
>> It "should" be.
>>
>> But there is no "Drafts" folder that I know of in my Dialog hierarchy.
>> 40tude Dialog has folders for {locale,maps,Scripts,dicts,logs,temp,data}.
>> If the saved draft is in a text-editable file somewhere, I'd love to know.
>
> Quinn was talking about the Drafts folder (= a special "group") name inside
> the Newsgroups list of a running Dialog.

Right. I didn't recognize "editable" was meant as "openable in a text
editor"; the drafts are certainly editable within Dialog.

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On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:41:10 -0400, Quinn C wrote:
>> Quinn was talking about the Drafts folder (= a special "group") name inside
>> the Newsgroups list of a running Dialog.
>
> Right. I didn't recognize "editable" was meant as "openable in a text
> editor"; the drafts are certainly editable within Dialog.

Oh. Yeah. My mistake. I didn't realize Quinn was suggesting the "Drafts"
folder inside of the 40tude Dialog GUI, but as Bernd said, that isn't
accessible to the Notepad++ external editor.

I tried to find the saved draft in the file system but I never could find it
and what Bernd said (that it's in a special msg format) means that I won't
be able to edit it from an external editor anyway.

I'm stuck with the method I have currently which is to copy and paste to
Notepad++ and then back using as few keyboard shortcuts as are possible.

Regards,
bill
--
What did the blonde say when the classroom bully stole her pencil?
I LITERALLY CAN'T EVEN WRITE NOW

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 16:32:42 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> Shortcut hotkeys seem to have a limited scope.

Yeah. Windows must have rules for where it looks for keyboard shortcuts.

All I know is when I assigned "control+alt+n" to the Notepad++.lnk shortcut
in my taskbar toolbar it didn't work but when I did the exact same thing to
the Notepad++.lnk shortcut in my StartMenu, typing "control+alt+n" worked.

> Most times and in many
> places where I have shortcuts, they don't work for me.

The shortcuts work no matter where they are but I think you mean the
keyboard shortcuts (which is a property of the shortcut) don't always work
unless the shortcut itself is in the "right" place - which is apparently
defined by Microsoft as the desktop or the StartMenu (and maybe elsewhere).

Since I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop, by design, it's going to
have to be in the alphabetic StartMenu (which I normally keep empty).

> Only if the
> shortcut (.lnk file) is on the desktop (%userprofile%\desktop) or in the
> Start folder ("%appdata%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu" on Win10, don't
> remember for WinXP) does the shortcut's hotkey work. Might also work in
> a subfolder under the desktop folder.

I asked on the Windows newsgroup but nobody has answered yet where shortcuts
must be in order for keyboard shortcuts to work.

This implies it works for StartMenu shortcuts and for pinneditems.
https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/assign-hotkey-windows-10-start-menu-shortcuts/

This doesn't even say that it won't work in the cases I've found.
https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/custom-keyboard-shortcuts-windows/

> Microsoft as repurposed many KB article numbers, so URLs to some old web
> pages, especially for unsupported versions of Microsoft, like Windows
> XP, are no longer available. By my recollection of a then-existing KB
> article said shortcut keys only work when the shortcuts are on the
> desktop or under the Start menu hierarchy.

This implies there are THREE locations (desktop, startmenu, taskbar)
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/93130-how-assign-keyboard-shortcut-shortcuts-windows-10-a.html

Notice mine isn't in the taskbar per se. It's in a toolbar in the taskbar.

Personally I don't like having ANYTHING in my start menu (either the
alphabetic or the tiled start menu) but if I have to, I'll leave the
Notepad++.lnk there for now.
> Do you have a shortcut in the Start menu somewhere? Or on your desktop?
> I noticed that using a hotkey for a shortcut will load the program, but
> there is a lag before the program loads. I would also make sure the
> shortcut with hotkey (on desktop or in Start menu) points to an
> executable file, not to a data file which operates by filetype
> association.

I don't put anything on the desktop but "mypc" and "recyclebin".
If something goes on the desktop, I move it to where it belongs.

Normally that happens during an installation where I move the shortcuts to
where they belong on my winxp style cascade toolbar attached to my taskbar.
> For me, shortcut hotkeys have little value since I tend to keep my
> desktop folder trimmed. I like order and neatness. The insides of my
> computer are likewise. So is my home, car, and work and lab desks. I
> got ribbed at work that no one can tell if I have been at my desks.

Like you I'm one of the most well organized people you've ever met, at least
for a computer. I'm so well organized my menus can be copied over from
Windows XP and they'll still work on Windows 10, ten years later, since I
have a place for everything and everything in its place.

Given there is limited real estate in the taskbar, I only put shortcuts in
the taskbar that I use a lot and that don't open by themselves.

An example of something that doesn't need to be in the taskbar is Notepad++
because I simply doubleclick on a txt file to open that file in Notepad++.

Another example of what doesn't need to be in the taskbar is Irfanview
because Irfanview will open up when I doubleclick on a JPG file.

What does need a shortcut are things like browsers (although if I wanted to,
I could create HTM files that open up in browsers but I use a variety of
browsers so any one default would need a host of default html, htm, etc file
types which would be a kluge.

The solution I have now is pretty good, which I will outline as a solution.

Regards,
bill
--
Looking for a pencil, I asked in the local shop if they keep stationery.
Chap said "I move around a bit".

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 22:26:02 +0200, Bernd Rose wrote:
> One false bit in the wrong place may render
> the whole database unreadable...

I'll stick with the current solution which is outlined below.
[https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/c/YnzrM4ksL3M]

1. For any interesting thread I'll press [shift][w] to "keep & highlight"
which runs a custom script kindly written by Bernd a while ago for me
[https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/c/mk9bQqKqGts]
2. For any given article I'll press [f] to "follow up" & respond
3. That brings up the article in a 40tude dialog composition window
4. In the composition window I press [control][a] to "select all"
5. Then I press [control][x] to "cut" to the clipboard buffer
6. I can now press [control][alt][n] to bring up Notepad++
7. In Notepad++ I press [control][v] to "paste" into Notepad++
8. In Notepad++ I can manually edit (and also run macros on the data)
When done, in Notepad++ I press [control][a] to "select all"
9. In Notepad++ I press [control][x] to "cut" to the Windows clipboard
10. To close Notepad++ without losing the buffer I press [alt][F4]
11. In Dialog I press [control][v] to "paste" into the composition window
12. In Dialog I type "b-b-b" (no dashes) which brings up my custom sig
which Bernd helped write, using dictionary replacement tricks.
[https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/c/f6UsmRICXkw/m/YSzaaFiEAAAJ]

Regards,
bill
--
I just lost an argument with a pencil.
To be fair, it had a point.

On Thu, 12th Aug 2021 05:08:14 +0200, bill wrote:

> Yeah. Windows must have rules for where it looks for keyboard shortcuts.
[...]
> I asked on the Windows newsgroup but nobody has answered yet where shortcuts
> must be in order for keyboard shortcuts to work.
>
> This implies there are THREE locations (desktop, startmenu, taskbar)
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/93130-how-assign-keyboard-shortcut-shortcuts-windows-10-a.html

Which I already wrote you yesterday:

Message-ID: <1vk2cxxmflwbh.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>

You ask so many question in so many different places, that you loose track
of the answers.

> Notice mine isn't in the taskbar per se. It's in a toolbar in the taskbar.

I can't reproduce your problem. But you can pin Notepad++ directly to the
taskbar while running. Afterwards, you can assign a hotkey inside the icon
shortcut properties. At least if it is done with your current user rights,
the hotkey should work with your user rights, immediately.

Bernd

What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up. I use
spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2 space
characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.

I just can't see why you need Notepad++ when all you need is a very
basic text editor for text-only messages composed in and sent by Dialog.
Maybe I missed that part. Seems a lot of work to throw a monster text
editor at a simple job; i.e., swatting a fly with a cannon.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:48:07 +0200
bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> On 2021-08-11, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> > Windows (well my XP flavour!) allows you to assign a shortcut key
> > to a desktop icon - I just assigned N to Notepad
> > [I've already cheated and overwrote the old notepad.exe with Notepad2]
>
> Hi there ker-muhj-uhn,
>
> Windows 10 isn't much different than XP except in the pretty background.
> In Dialog I tried [control][alt][n] which did nothing (it's a good start).
>
> > This allows Ctrl-Alt-N to open Notepad2.
>
> I went to my taskbar menu shortcut for notepad++.lnk to set properties.
> It wouldn't let me type anything but a single character such as [n].
> It asked for Administrator Permission which I said "OK" to.
> But then when I typed [control][alt][n] nothing happened.
>
> Googling I found maybe it must be in the start menu apparently?
> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+set+shortcut+key+in+windows+10
>
> I'm not sure why it doesn't work with ANY shortcut, but maybe it has to be a
> shortcut that is in the path?
>
> Anyway, that worked by setting the start menu Notepad++ shortcut.
>
> I always use the WinXP style menus (which is simply a menu folder pinned to
> the taskbar) so I would never use the Win10 start menu and I often clear it
> out so I'm lucky it was still there.
>
> > {You don't get any option but to have the "Ctrl-Alt-" part}
>
> I just tried it in this composition Window and it worked nicely.
> That saves a few keystrokes.
>
Excellent

> Here's kind of what I do (although circumstances dictate the steps).
> 0. In Dialog on interesting threads I press [shift][w]
> This runs a keep-and-highlight script previously supplied by Bernd.
> 1. I then read an article that I wish to reply to by pressing [f]
> 2. In the 40tude dialog composition window I press [control][a]
> 3. Then [control][x]
> 4. Now (thanks to you) I press [control][alt][n]
> 5. Then [control][v]
> 6. Then I can edit to my heart's content and when I'm ready to return
> 7. In Notepad++ I press [control][a][control][x][alt][f4] (which kills it)
> 8. Back in Dialog I press [control][v]
> 9. In Dialog I press "a_a_a" (without the underscore)
> This runs a dictionary replace from Bernd which does my salutation.
> 10. The only mouse action is to send this article to the nntp server.
>
So I suggest you post this to a windows scripting NG, or try something yourself; Autokey was the one I used to use; but it's important to ensure you're on the correct window before issuing the keystrokes!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.

What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
in a text editor display? Sure, that can happen using a word processor.

>I use spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2
>space characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.

Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
annoying. Someone might choose a variable-width font for display because
he finds it easier to read, and there are no tabs to line up.

>I just can't see why you need Notepad++ when all you need is a very
>basic text editor for text-only messages composed in and sent by Dialog.
>Maybe I missed that part. Seems a lot of work to throw a monster text
>editor at a simple job; i.e., swatting a fly with a cannon.

Some people just get used to a feature-rich environment. I use vim which
has dozens of commands I use rarely but it's nice to have access to them
when I need them, plus numerous commands I've never used or learned to use.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
> >won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.
>
> >Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
> >on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
> >could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
> >the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.
>
> What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
> in a text editor display? Sure, that can happen using a word processor.
>
> >I use spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2
> >space characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.
>
> Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
> annoying.

I beg to differ. Tabs are only meaningful if you can be certain what
all your readers' tab settings are, which just ain't possible on Usenet.
I say use spaces and a fixed-width font to do reliable tabulation.

> Someone might choose a variable-width font for display because
> he finds it easier to read, and there are no tabs to line up.

Tabs are useless in variable-width fonts because the width of such
fonts varies, one compared with another.

[...]

--
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My pet rock Gordon just is.