Hello.

Is recreating a system repair disc after updating Windows 10 with a
major update like 21H2 required?

Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
--
BUSY, dark, cold, wet, leaky, 2.5?" rain storm, loco, colony, works, bodies, life, medias, s(l&p)ammed, etc. again. Good bye 2021, John Madden, & Dr. Edward O. Wilson.
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/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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I decided to burn to a 700 MB CD-R. I went to test it with two machines, but
got this error right away:

"Non-System disk or disk error
Replace and press any key when ready".

Back in PC's installed W10's cmd.exe, I checked my CD:

C:\> dir m: /o:n /s

Volume in drive M is Repair disc Windows 10 64-bit
Volume Serial Number is 9DDE-AF42

Directory of M:\

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> boot
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 414,852 bootmgr
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 1,541,960 bootmgr.efi
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> efi
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> sources
2 File(s) 1,956,812 bytes

Directory of M:\boot

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 16,384 BCD
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 3,170,304 boot.sdi
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> fonts
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> resources
2 File(s) 3,186,688 bytes

Directory of M:\boot\fonts

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 3,695,830 chs_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 3,878,309 cht_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 1,985,767 jpn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 2,372,900 kor_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 177,888 malgun_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 175,429 malgunn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 145,684 meiryo_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 144,017 meiryon_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 165,524 msjh_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 163,496 msjhn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 157,064 msyh_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 155,438 msyhn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 44,760 segmono_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 86,077 segoe_slboot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 85,764 segoen_slboot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 48,992 wgl4_boot.ttf
16 File(s) 13,482,939 bytes

Directory of M:\boot\resources

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 92,472 bootres.dll
1 File(s) 92,472 bytes

Directory of M:\efi

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> boot
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> microsoft
0 File(s) 0 bytes

Directory of M:\efi\boot

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 1,558,328 bootx64.efi
1 File(s) 1,558,328 bytes

Directory of M:\efi\microsoft

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> boot
0 File(s) 0 bytes

Directory of M:\efi\microsoft\boot

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 16,384 BCD
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> fonts
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> resources
1 File(s) 16,384 bytes

Directory of M:\efi\microsoft\boot\fonts

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 3,695,830 chs_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 3,878,309 cht_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 1,985,767 jpn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 2,372,900 kor_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 177,888 malgun_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 175,429 malgunn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 145,684 meiryo_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 144,017 meiryon_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 165,524 msjh_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 163,496 msjhn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 157,064 msyh_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 155,438 msyhn_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 44,760 segmono_boot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 86,077 segoe_slboot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 85,764 segoen_slboot.ttf
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 48,992 wgl4_boot.ttf
16 File(s) 13,482,939 bytes

Directory of M:\efi\microsoft\boot\resources

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 92,472 bootres.dll
1 File(s) 92,472 bytes

Directory of M:\sources

12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
12/31/2021 01:46 AM 432,950,773 boot.wim
1 File(s) 432,950,773 bytes

Total Files Listed:
41 File(s) 466,819,807 bytes
30 Dir(s) 0 bytes free

Does that look OK? Was my burn bad or something? :(

Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
> Hello.

> Is recreating a system repair disc after updating Windows 10 with a
> major update like 21H2 required?

> Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)

--
BUSY, dark, cold, wet, leaky, 2.5?" rain storm, loco, colony, works, bodies, life, medias, s(l&p)ammed, etc. again. Good bye 2021, John Madden, & Dr. Edward O. Wilson.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
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Ant wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Is recreating a system repair disc after updating Windows 10 with a
> major update like 21H2 required?
>
> Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
>
A repair disk on W10 is the cd/dvd version of Win10 Recovery drive(its
the same as creating a Recovery drive on a USB stick, just on CD/DVD
instead of USB).
- Is there a specific reason to create on CD/DVD instead of USB?

Do you have the latest Win10 Media Creation tool download for 21H2?
Did you use the tool and now have a USB created 21H2 bootable
installation media?

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 12/31/2021 6:08 AM, Ant wrote:
> I decided to burn to a 700 MB CD-R. I went to test it with two machines, but
> got this error right away:
>
> "Non-System disk or disk error
> Replace and press any key when ready".
>
> Back in PC's installed W10's cmd.exe, I checked my CD:
>
> C:\> dir m: /o:n /s
>
> Volume in drive M is Repair disc Windows 10 64-bit
> Volume Serial Number is 9DDE-AF42
<< snipped for brevity >>

> Directory of M:\sources
>
> 12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> .
> 12/31/2021 01:46 AM <DIR> ..
> 12/31/2021 01:46 AM 432,950,773 boot.wim <=== the meaty bit...
> 1 File(s) 432,950,773 bytes
>
> Does that look OK? Was my burn bad or something? :(
>
> Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
>> Hello.
>
>> Is recreating a system repair disc after updating Windows 10 with a
>> major update like 21H2 required?
>
>> Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)

The Install DVD should carry out the same functions for you.

You should always download the install DVDs, for future reference purposes.
You don't have to burn them. Just stash the ISO files away somewhere.
I have many gigabytes of that kind of junk here.

*******

These are the starting materials.

boot.wim <=== This starts your Windows 10
winre.wim <=== Reagentc points to this, this is part of the emergency
response when Windows 10 won't boot, and you need an alternate
WIM for booting, as part of the three repair cycles.

In the Windows 7 backup panel, the Create a System Repair Disc.
uses the boot.wim for running things. I examined the ISO made,
and the files were, for the most part, two years old. I saw one
file, which might have been added to deal with my new AMD processor.
I did not need to burn a CD to do this. I made a little project out
of snatching the file.

But for the most part, the content seemed pretty "settled in the box".

The USB Recovery maker, if you untick the system files box, it would make
the equivalent of the System Repair Disc. That one uses winre.wim .

Winre.wim is also used, when C: is corrupted and the three-pass
recovery is being attempted. The Reagentc command is supposed
to give info about whether it is wired up, and what the
location of the file is. If ReagentC is not enabled, then the USB Recovery maker
cannot function.

reagentc /info

It's possible for Microsoft to edit anything, at any time.
But things like WADK and the tools associated with that,
probably aren't released daily, and have a more fixed pattern
of release. It's not clear, for example, that Macrium picks up
every one of those and uses them for their tool flow. DISM
and imagex would be examples of tools that may get updated.

I suppose it would depend on what tools you thought you would
be using from there, as to how "updated" it needs to be. I doubt
the backup format made by "Windows 7 Backup" package is going to
be constantly changing, because then a lot of customers would
never get their restores to work. The backups tend to be virtual
containers (either VHD or VHDX) and are just snapshots of the
clusters on the disk. Unused disk space does not need to be captured.

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> The Install DVD should carry out the same functions for you.

> You should always download the install DVDs, for future reference purposes.
....
Oooh, even better. Thanks. I also found out that I have to use UEFI PCs
to boot the burned system repair discs. Old BIOS PCs & VMs = nope. :(
--
Go away 2021. 2022, please be better! :) NY (Eve)! 2.5-<3" rain fell over the last 2 days. Dang new issues! RIP, Betty White! 99?! :( More like rad 80 2 me.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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| |o o| |
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....w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ant wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > Is recreating a system repair disc after updating Windows 10 with a
> > major update like 21H2 required?
> >
> > Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
> >
> A repair disk on W10 is the cd/dvd version of Win10 Recovery drive(its
> the same as creating a Recovery drive on a USB stick, just on CD/DVD
> instead of USB).
> - Is there a specific reason to create on CD/DVD instead of USB?

> Do you have the latest Win10 Media Creation tool download for 21H2?
> Did you use the tool and now have a USB created 21H2 bootable
> installation media?

I used Windows Update's on Christmas day.
--
Go away 2021. 2022, please be better! :) NY (Eve)! 2.5-<3" rain fell over the last 2 days. Dang new issues! RIP, Betty White! 99?! :( More like rad 80 2 me.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 1/1/2022 2:46 AM, Ant wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The Install DVD should carry out the same functions for you.
>
>> You should always download the install DVDs, for future reference purposes.
> ...
> Oooh, even better. Thanks. I also found out that I have to use UEFI PCs
> to boot the burned system repair discs. Old BIOS PCs & VMs = nope. :(
>

Well, we can check that. With Disktype (cygwin).

--- L:\Microsoft_19044_rescue_cd.iso
Regular file, size 481.5 MiB (504889344 bytes)
UDF file system
Sector size 2048 bytes
Volume name "Repair disc Windows 10 64-bit"
UDF version 1.02
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "REPAIR_DISC_WINDOWS_10_64_BIT"
Preparer "IMAPI2 (1.0) ISO9660 FORMATTER COPYRIGHT (C) 2004-2007 MICROSOFT"
Data size 481.0 MiB (504328192 bytes, 246254 blocks of 2 KiB)
El Torito boot record, catalog at 353
Bootable 1.44M floppy image, starts at 354, preloads 512 bytes
Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Windows / MS-DOS boot loader
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 1.390 MiB (1457664 bytes, 2847 clusters of 512 bytes)
Volume name "EFISECTOR"
Joliet extension, volume name "Repair disc Wind"

*******

This is a Win10 DVD>

-- L:\Windows10x64__Pro__21H2.iso
Regular file, size 4.285 GiB (4600823808 bytes)
UDF file system
Sector size 2048 bytes
Volume name "ESD-ISO"
UDF version 1.02
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "ESD_ISO"
Preparer "IMAPI2 (1.0) ISO9660 FORMATTER COPYRIGHT (C) 2004-2007 MICROSOFT"
Data size 4.284 GiB (4600240128 bytes, 2246211 blocks of 2 KiB)
El Torito boot record, catalog at 1404
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 1405, preloads 4 KiB
Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 1407, preloads 1.406 MiB (1474560 bytes)
Platform 0xEF (EFI), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Windows / MS-DOS boot loader
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 1.390 MiB (1457664 bytes, 2847 clusters of 512 bytes)
Volume name "EFISECTOR"

Well, one is more complicated than the other.
It's a lot easier to see the Linux ones are hybrid.

One problem with the Windows 7 backup one, is the
inconvenience of getting at the ISO file. I didn't burn
a CD to get that information. The ISO file goes into a
TEMP directory, but if you don't burn a CD, the file is
immediately deleted. The tool is a nasty piece of work.

You can rip your CD, to make the ISO, but that would be
"admitting the terrorists have won" :-) Once you have
ISO in hand, rufus.ie can be used to make a USB stick
from it. And you can select how you want that to boot.

It's just a giant pain to be doing it this way. But I think
you have figured that out by now. The DVD is a viable
alternative. I use rewrite-able DVDs for stuff like this.

Paul

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:56:04 -0500, Paul wrote:
> The Install DVD should carry out the same functions for you.
>
> You should always download the install DVDs, for future reference purposes.
> You don't have to burn them. Just stash the ISO files away somewhere.
> I have many gigabytes of that kind of junk here.

Good reminder. I had some horrendous problems with my Dell laptop
because I didn't have the install discs.

I thought I would act on your suggestion right away, but Dell doesn't
seem to offer these for download for my Optiplex 7010. I did find
Control Panel » System and Security » Backup and Restore (Windows 7)
 » Create a system repair disc), which I assume is important to have.
Of course the screen for creating the disk wants to burn directly to
disc (ISO not an option) and doesn't tell you how big it is, but I
found it's only 441 MB.

For the benefit of others, I found the installer download here:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
The download is in progress now. It's 21H2, though I still have 21H1
on my PC. I assume the 21H2 update will happen long before I need to
reinstall Windows 10 from media! Microsoft's site says you will
probably need a dual-layer DVD.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:56:04 -0500, Paul wrote:
> I suppose it would depend on what tools you thought you would
> be using from there, as to how "updated" it needs to be. I doubt
> the backup format made by "Windows 7 Backup" package is going to
> be constantly changing, because then a lot of customers would
> never get their restores to work. The backups tend to be virtual
> containers (either VHD or VHDX) and are just snapshots of the
> clusters on the disk. Unused disk space does not need to be captured.

Do you mean it does not need to be captured and therefore it's not
captured, or it does not need to be captured but it is captured
anyway, so the backups are much bigger than they should be?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:20:56 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
> For the benefit of others, I found the installer download here:
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> The download is in progress now. It's 21H2, though I still have 21H1
> on my PC. I assume the 21H2 update will happen long before I need to
> reinstall Windows 10 from media! Microsoft's site says you will
> probably need a dual-layer DVD.

Update: The ISO, at least for me, is just little below the capacity
of a single-layer DVD. I used ImgBurn to burn it.

I also noticed an almost-4GB file that is new this morning, from
around the time I downloaded the Windows 10 ISO:
C:\$Windows.~WS\Sources\Windows\sources\install.esd
When I closed the download tool (after I had burned the .ISO file to
disk), the .ESD file went away. And it was really deleted, not
deleted into the Recycle Bin. The Windows .ISO file is still on my
disk, though.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 1/1/2022 12:59 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:20:56 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
>> For the benefit of others, I found the installer download here:
>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
>> The download is in progress now. It's 21H2, though I still have 21H1
>> on my PC. I assume the 21H2 update will happen long before I need to
>> reinstall Windows 10 from media! Microsoft's site says you will
>> probably need a dual-layer DVD.
>
> Update: The ISO, at least for me, is just little below the capacity
> of a single-layer DVD. I used ImgBurn to burn it.
>
> I also noticed an almost-4GB file that is new this morning, from
> around the time I downloaded the Windows 10 ISO:
> C:\$Windows.~WS\Sources\Windows\sources\install.esd
> When I closed the download tool (after I had burned the .ISO file to
> disk), the .ESD file went away. And it was really deleted, not
> deleted into the Recycle Bin. The Windows .ISO file is still on my
> disk, though.
>

For the Windows 10 download, there are two disks on offer.

If you approach the download page from a WinXP machine
or from a Linux machine, you are offered a 5GB x64 disc.
This would require dual layer media.

If you approach the download page from W7+, you'd
be offered a 4GB x64 disc, one which fits on a
single layer disc.

There is a difference between the two discs, as to how many
OS versions are on the disc. The 5GB one may have an Education
SKU on it.

You can also remaster DVDs and put only the one OS SKU on it,
making the disc image smaller. Removing all but one SKU, reduces
the ISO by 500MB or so.

Microsoft doesn't tell you any of this, and just leaves
it as a seemingly random thing when a customer shows up.
The customer is not warned about what they're getting and
whether it would be a good idea to cancel and try from
some other machine.

The Rufus.ie tool can repackage either one of those ISO files,
for usage on a USB stick.

*******

The install.esd you found, is the same as a .wim file except
that .esd files have some encryption options. It's unlikely
that Windows 10 is encrypted, but the Windows 8 DVDs, when you
bought an electronic copy, those were encrypted.

Microsoft offers a document describing the WIM format, and
the 7ZIP guy used that to craft a decompressor for it. But
the slight changes made in the format, to support ESD, are
not documented. As a result, 7ZIP may not be able to read
an ESD. Microsoft sometimes also puts an ESD file extension
on something that is a WIM, which does not help.

In the first version of the ESD, Microsoft put the key
for the ESD, separate from the working bit. The customers
figured this out, and soon, someone had written a tool
to convert the ESD to a more normal version. After which
Microsoft changed the format again. I don't believe the toolmaker,
updated their tool after that.

What was pretty amazing, is I found a discussion thread about
the format, and one crypto expert took one look at the layout of the
key and such, and recognized the format by sight. Which
blew me away. I looked at the lengths of some of the fields,
and figured "well, maybe there's a salt in there". I couldn't
get the format to line up with anything I'd heard of. But that
guy recognized it on sight, like it was nothing.

Paul

On 1/1/2022 12:23 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:56:04 -0500, Paul wrote:
>> I suppose it would depend on what tools you thought you would
>> be using from there, as to how "updated" it needs to be. I doubt
>> the backup format made by "Windows 7 Backup" package is going to
>> be constantly changing, because then a lot of customers would
>> never get their restores to work. The backups tend to be virtual
>> containers (either VHD or VHDX) and are just snapshots of the
>> clusters on the disk. Unused disk space does not need to be captured.
>
> Do you mean it does not need to be captured and therefore it's not
> captured, or it does not need to be captured but it is captured
> anyway, so the backups are much bigger than they should be?
>

The white space on your hard drive, is not essential
for restoration. While Recuva can recover deleted files
from a partition, the backup softwares we use, do not
restore sufficient materials for Recuva to work. If you
erased a file, backing up the partition at that point,
does not "save enough stuff" to recover the file.

What any backup tool with "smart backup" does, is it
writes out all the occupied clusters. The clusters used
to hold the $MFT for example. The first sectors of the
file system header. And so on. All those things I draw in
disk diagrams, those are captured for restoration later.

*******

If you use Disk Dump ("dd"), that captures every sector. A
restoration off a "dd" .img could bring sufficient materials
with it, for Recuva to work. All the white space is recorded
when you use "dd" for that purpose.

If you have 20GB of files stored on a 1TB disk, the Windows 7 Backup
file will be 20GB in size. The other part of the disk, need not
be captured.

Whereas if you use "dd" to back up the disk, the 20GB of files
takes 1TB to store, and that's because all the unused parts
of the disk are recorded too.

Win7 Backup 20GB on 1TB disk ==> 20GB archive
"dd" backup 20GB on 1TB disk ==> 1TB archive

If you compress a "dd", you can get it down to roughly 20GB
in that example. But that's a *lot* of work. It can take a
very long work day, to do a proper "dd" type backup. You only
do those, if you do not trust your Macrium or Windows 7 Backup
to work. For example, if the disk drive is corrupted somehow,
then "dd" might be the only backup method that runs to
completion for you. Macrium stops on a dime, if it detects
corruption, and will not continue. But the "dd" method does not
care, and runs like a Xerox machine (nice).

Paul

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 15:38:22, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>For the Windows 10 download, there are two disks on offer.
>
>If you approach the download page from a WinXP machine
>or from a Linux machine, you are offered a 5GB x64 disc.
>This would require dual layer media.
>
>If you approach the download page from W7+, you'd
>be offered a 4GB x64 disc, one which fits on a
>single layer disc.

Does that apply if your W7 is 32 bit?
>
>There is a difference between the two discs, as to how many
>OS versions are on the disc. The 5GB one may have an Education
>SKU on it.

(Is Education good or bad, compared to say Home?)
>
>You can also remaster DVDs and put only the one OS SKU on it,
>making the disc image smaller. Removing all but one SKU, reduces
>the ISO by 500MB or so.
>
>Microsoft doesn't tell you any of this, and just leaves
>it as a seemingly random thing when a customer shows up.
>The customer is not warned about what they're getting and
>whether it would be a good idea to cancel and try from
>some other machine.
>
>The Rufus.ie tool can repackage either one of those ISO files,
>for usage on a USB stick.
[]
>What was pretty amazing, is I found a discussion thread about
>the format, and one crypto expert took one look at the layout of the
>key and such, and recognized the format by sight. Which
>blew me away. I looked at the lengths of some of the fields,
>and figured "well, maybe there's a salt in there". I couldn't
>get the format to line up with anything I'd heard of. But that
>guy recognized it on sight, like it was nothing.

Might he have been an insider, pretending not to be (-:?
>
> Paul
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

still kicking, just not as high! - "c!" in alt.comp.os.windows-10, 2021-4-2

On 1/1/2022 9:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 15:38:22, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
> []
>> For the Windows 10 download, there are two disks on offer.
>>
>> If you approach the download page from a WinXP machine
>> or from a Linux machine, you are offered a 5GB x64 disc.
>> This would require dual layer media.
>>
>> If you approach the download page from W7+, you'd
>> be offered a 4GB x64 disc, one which fits on a
>> single layer disc.
>
> Does that apply if your W7 is 32 bit?

They use the UserAgent string, to pick one of the two
download options/methods. WinXP/Linux gets a "direct" download,
an ISO which is ready to go, but an ISO that also requires
dual layer media for an X64 disc.

The size of the file is unrelated to FAT32 storage. Both
ISO files are too big to be downloaded onto FAT32.

The smaller ISO image is "assembled from parts", and is not
a monolithic download. MediaCreationTool makes it. However,
if MediaCreationTool had been asked to make the larger DVD,
it would end up the same size anyway. It's not like the
methods have "merit" or anything. These are just arbitrary
policies to learn and document.

>>
>> There is a difference between the two discs, as to how many
>> OS versions are on the disc. The 5GB one may have an Education
>> SKU on it.
>
> (Is Education good or bad, compared to say Home?)

Presumably the activation details are different.

Other than that, it's just an OS.

>> guy recognized it on sight, like it was nothing.
>
> Might he have been an insider, pretending not to be (-:?

Absolutely not.

When you were hired, didn't they unroll a roll of toilet
paper with a list of firing offenses printed on it ? Employed
professionals keep a low profile. Where I worked, we
had something called "blanket NDA", which will keep
you warm at night if you pull it up around your neck :-/

Paul

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 23:00:17, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
>On 1/1/2022 9:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 15:38:22, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>>(my responses usually follow points raised):
>> []
>>> For the Windows 10 download, there are two disks on offer.
>>>
>>> If you approach the download page from a WinXP machine
>>> or from a Linux machine, you are offered a 5GB x64 disc.
>>> This would require dual layer media.
>>>
>>> If you approach the download page from W7+, you'd
>>> be offered a 4GB x64 disc, one which fits on a
>>> single layer disc.
>> Does that apply if your W7 is 32 bit?
>
>They use the UserAgent string, to pick one of the two

The one sent by the browser? So presumably you could get the other ISO
by spoofing said string. (Not that I'm likely to go W10 by this route -
if I ever go to W10, it'll probably be a new [or at least replacement]
PC with it already on.)

>download options/methods. WinXP/Linux gets a "direct" download,
>an ISO which is ready to go, but an ISO that also requires
>dual layer media for an X64 disc.

(How about for an x86 one?)
>
>The size of the file is unrelated to FAT32 storage. Both
>ISO files are too big to be downloaded onto FAT32.
>
>The smaller ISO image is "assembled from parts", and is not
>a monolithic download. MediaCreationTool makes it. However,
>if MediaCreationTool had been asked to make the larger DVD,
>it would end up the same size anyway. It's not like the
>methods have "merit" or anything. These are just arbitrary
>policies to learn and document.
>
(-:
>>>
>>> There is a difference between the two discs, as to how many
>>> OS versions are on the disc. The 5GB one may have an Education
>>> SKU on it.
>> (Is Education good or bad, compared to say Home?)
>
>Presumably the activation details are different.
>
>Other than that, it's just an OS.
>
>>> guy recognized it on sight, like it was nothing.
>> Might he have been an insider, pretending not to be (-:?
>
>Absolutely not.
>
>When you were hired, didn't they unroll a roll of toilet
>paper with a list of firing offenses printed on it ? Employed
>professionals keep a low profile. Where I worked, we
>had something called "blanket NDA", which will keep
>you warm at night if you pull it up around your neck :-/

I just wonder if he was a "whistle blower" who resented his gagging
clause. Probably not in this case as it's not as if he was revealing a
Great Wrong.
>
> Paul
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There are a lot of things that children should be shielded from, but
"bad language" isn't one of them.

"Honey, we shouldn't say that when other people are around because some
grownups get upset about it. No, I don't know why, they just do."
- "The Real Bev", in mozilla.general 2015-6-7

On 1/2/2022 6:41 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 23:00:17, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):

>> download options/methods. WinXP/Linux gets a "direct" download,
>> an ISO which is ready to go, but an ISO that also requires
>> dual layer media for an X64 disc.
>
> (How about for an x86 one?)

I sorted my collection by size. My collection is not a full matrix
collection by any means. I don't think you have too much to worry about.

Win10_1909_English_x32.iso 3,807,252,480 bytes

I checked the install.wim on that one and there are 11 OSes on the CD.
So that's a Linux download version.

This one is even nicely labeled. It has 7 OSes in it. I could
get this one by downloading via Win7 browser. You can see how much
margin there is, to single-sided media. Lots of room.

Windows_1909_mediacreate_x86.iso 3,070,951,424 bytes

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 1/1/2022 2:46 AM, Ant wrote:
> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> The Install DVD should carry out the same functions for you.
> >
> >> You should always download the install DVDs, for future reference purposes.
> > ...
> > Oooh, even better. Thanks. I also found out that I have to use UEFI PCs
> > to boot the burned system repair discs. Old BIOS PCs & VMs = nope. :(
> >

> Well, we can check that. With Disktype (cygwin).

> --- L:\Microsoft_19044_rescue_cd.iso
> Regular file, size 481.5 MiB (504889344 bytes)
> UDF file system
> Sector size 2048 bytes
> Volume name "Repair disc Windows 10 64-bit"
> UDF version 1.02
> ISO9660 file system
> Volume name "REPAIR_DISC_WINDOWS_10_64_BIT"
> Preparer "IMAPI2 (1.0) ISO9660 FORMATTER COPYRIGHT (C) 2004-2007 MICROSOFT"
> Data size 481.0 MiB (504328192 bytes, 246254 blocks of 2 KiB)
> El Torito boot record, catalog at 353
> Bootable 1.44M floppy image, starts at 354, preloads 512 bytes
> Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
> Windows / MS-DOS boot loader
> FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
> Volume size 1.390 MiB (1457664 bytes, 2847 clusters of 512 bytes)
> Volume name "EFISECTOR"
> Joliet extension, volume name "Repair disc Wind"
....
> You can rip your CD, to make the ISO, but that would be
> "admitting the terrorists have won" :-) Once you have
> ISO in hand, rufus.ie can be used to make a USB stick
> from it. And you can select how you want that to boot.

I did that from a burned CD with ImgBurn and checked in my old, updated Debian Jessie v8 PC:
$ /usr/bin/disktype /media/ant/D-Archives/zips/programs/BootableMedias/64Windows/W10/Win10_21H2_English_x64systemRepairUEFIfromASrockPCnoWorkInVBvm.iso

--- /media/ant/D-Archives/zips/programs/BootableMedias/64Windows/W10/Win10_21H2_English_x64systemRepairUEFIfromASrockPCnoWorkInVBvm.iso
Regular file, size 448.2 MiB (470003712 bytes)
UDF file system
Sector size 2048 bytes
Volume name "Repair disc Windows 10 64-bit"
UDF version 1.02
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "REPAIR_DISC_WINDOWS_10_64_BIT"
Preparer "IMAPI2 (1.0) ISO9660 FORMATTER COPYRIGHT (C) 2004-2007 MICROSOFT"
Data size 447.4 MiB (469100544 bytes, 229053 blocks of 2 KiB)
El Torito boot record, catalog at 353
Bootable 1.44M floppy image, starts at 354, preloads 512 bytes
Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Windows / MS-DOS boot loader
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 1.390 MiB (1457664 bytes, 2847 clusters of 512 bytes)
Volume name "EFISECTOR"
Joliet extension, volume name "Repair disc Wind"

> It's just a giant pain to be doing it this way. But I think
> you have figured that out by now. The DVD is a viable
> alternative. I use rewrite-able DVDs for stuff like this.

Yes since it comes with one already. It's nice to have both an installer
AND a system repair to work in both BIOS and UEFI. Yes, discs are very
slow but still can be useful! :)
--
:) NY! Let's hope 2022 will B betta than da last 2!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 23:00:17 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> guy recognized it on sight, like it was nothing.
>>>
>>> Might he have been an insider, pretending not to be (-:?
>>
>> Absolutely not.
>>
>> When you were hired, didn't they unroll a roll of toilet
>> paper with a list of firing offenses printed on it ? Employed
>> professionals keep a low profile. Where I worked, we
>> had something called "blanket NDA", which will keep
>> you warm at night if you pull it up around your neck :-/
>
> On the other hand Microsoft DOES have a support library they sell to
> major companies for their techs - not sure if it's still called
> Technet but that was the name about 20 years ago when I was getting it
> in a previous position.
>
> So while it's unlikely to be a Microsoft employee, Technet wouldn't
> surprise me at all
>
Much has changes since Technet.

Business have a variety of support options(Technet and its library format
retired, though archive content still exists locally at many companies,
though with all the changes in Windows, Server, Azure and Security etc.
fast becoming obsolete as reference.

Today the programs fall under different umbrellas 'Unified Support',
'Professional Support', 'Dynamics', 'Office 365', 'Azure', 'Accessibility'
- all under a subscription or pay per incident license with accessible
content(documentation, video, tutorials, person/direct contact)

There is also free content accessible to anyone(some of the same access as
the licensing side)
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/>

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n