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computers / news.software.readers / Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

SubjectAuthor
* [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
+* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
|`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
| `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
 `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Kerr-Mudd, John
  |`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | +- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
  | |`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | | `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | |  `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |   `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | |    `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
  | |     +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |     |`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
  | |     | `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Quinn C
  | |     |  `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |     `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | |      `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |       `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | |        `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |         +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | |         |`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |         | `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
  | |         `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  | |          `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Quinn C
  | `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Kerr-Mudd, John
  |  `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  |   `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Kerr-Mudd, John
  +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
  |`- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
  `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Quinn C
   `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
    +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
    |`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Quinn C
    | `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
    `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
     `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Bernd Rose
      `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill
       `* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
        +* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Adam H. Kerman
        |+* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Sn!pe
        ||`* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Adam H. Kerman
        || +- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Sn!pe
        || +- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Quinn C
        || `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
        |+* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Lewis
        ||+* Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Adam H. Kerman
        |||`- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Lewis
        ||`- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++Quinn C
        |`- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++VanguardLH
        `- Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++bill

Pages:123
Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<sf3f6h$k0u$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:37:05 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: bill - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:37 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 06:10:43 +0200, Bernd Rose wrote:
> You ask so many question in so many different places, that you loose track
> of the answers.

I appreciate your help. I'm a very detailed person.
I respond to everyone, with those details. :)
But I don't really have any questions left so I'm just responding to issues.

>> Notice mine isn't in the taskbar per se. It's in a toolbar in the taskbar.
>
> I can't reproduce your problem.

I think VanguardLH already reproduced what I saw, plus when I looked it up.

It "appears" the Notepad++.lnk shortcut must be in a certain "path" for the
[control][alt][n] keyboard shortcut assigned to it to work.

So there is no mystery other than the definitive list of where the
Notepad++.lnk shortcut should be in order for the keyboard shortcut assigned
to it to work.

The three places that we know of are not places I store _anything_ (but I do
easily concede that most people are nowhere nearly as organized as I am on a
computer so for most people those three places would work just fine.

> But you can pin Notepad++ directly to the taskbar while running.

Of course. But I already stated that I'm extremely well organized.
Everything has a place. Editors do not belong in the taskbar in my model.
Editors don't even belong in my WinXP style pullout accordion cascade menu
attached to the taskbar (although they are there, just for completeness).

The reason is that you almost never execute an editor in and of itself.
You almost always doubleclick on a file which then brings up the editor.

Besides, _all_ the programs I use, including the editors, have an AppPaths
key dedicated to bringing them up if and when I (rarely) want to.

So, for example, to bring up "vim", I just type [windows][r][v][enter].
To bring up Notepad++, I type [windows][r][n][enter].
To bring up MS Word, I type [windows][r][w][enter].
etcetera

For decades for organizational reasons, my choice has been to not put file
editor shortcuts in the taskbar.

There's no reason to break that rule now since leaving Notepad in the
StartMenu (which normally is empty for me) works just fine (as I almost
never see the StartMenu unless I accidentally hit its hotkey combination).

> Afterwards, you can assign a hotkey inside the icon
> shortcut properties. At least if it is done with your current user rights,
> the hotkey should work with your user rights, immediately.

I saw your suggestion as to why adding the [control][alt][n] to the
notepad++.lnk shortcut required an OK from Admin but I doubt I created those
original shortcuts as admin (since I'm almost never logged in, explicitly
anyway, as admin - although the one user I am has admin privileges).

However, I'm not in the least worried about the request for admin, since
both you and VanguardLH kindly reported you didn't have that minor annoyance
anyway - so it's just a fluke of the way my system is set up (which is set
up pretty tightly).

Anyway, in summary, all is solved in that the following is my summary:
1. It's likely not feasible for a person like me to try to write a script
that calls an external editor for Dialog unless that script already
exists (where I can re-purpose its call from editor1 to editor2).

2. It's easy enough to cut-and-paste from a Dialog composition window
into the desired editor and then to paste back when done editing.

3. All the steps were just to make that cut and paste a set of keyboard
shortcuts, where the _new_ keyboard shortcut, thanks to this thread
was to add [control][alt][n] instead of what I was using prior, which
was [windows][r][n][enter] to bring up Notepad++.

For those of you who wish to experiment with the App Paths, just add any key
you like of any name you like, where the only rule is it _must_ end with
"exe" even if there is very likely no file name of that name in your path.

a. First make sure that the desired key does NOT work, e.g.,
[windows][r][d][enter] (nothing should happen when you do that)

b. Assuming that fails, then open the registry and add & apppath for dialog:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\
Add a new key named "d.exe" and have it point to the 40tude dialog exe.
d.exe === "c:\your-path-to\40tude Dialog\dialog.exe"

c. Forevermore, when you want to start 40tude dialog, you just press keys
[windows][r][d][enter] (this should forevermore bring up dialog)

Regards,
bill
--
A cowboy kept trying to draw his gun
Unfortunately, he couldn't find a pencil.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:52:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:52 UTC

Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
>>>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

>>>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
>>>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
>>>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
>>>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.

>>What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
>>in a text editor display? Sure, that can happen using a word processor.

>>>I use spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2
>>>space characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.
>>Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
>>annoying.

>I beg to differ. Tabs are only meaningful if you can be certain what
>all your readers' tab settings are, which just ain't possible on Usenet.
>I say use spaces and a fixed-width font to do reliable tabulation.

8-position tabs are a long-standing convention. Yeah, I know clients
don't always implement conventions properly.

>>Someone might choose a variable-width font for display because
>>he finds it easier to read, and there are no tabs to line up.

>Tabs are useless in variable-width fonts because the width of such
>fonts varies, one compared with another.

The width of the characters are variable, sure, but tabs still make the
columns line up as intended.

Tab is a proper ASCII character. I object to clients that won't include
the tab character even if the user desires to use it.

>[...]

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<sf3g6m$13g1$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:54:14 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: bill - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:54 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:07:12 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> I just tried it in this composition Window and it worked nicely.
>> That saves a few keystrokes.
>>
> Excellent

Hi Curmudgeon,
I'm very happy you stepped in to help us with that [control][alt][n]
keyboard shortcut to bring up Notepad++ for the cut and paste operation.

I learned a lot in that it works beautifully, assuming the Notepad++.lnk
shortcut is in the places most people normal store it (e.g., in the
StartMenu, which I normally keep quite empty but which had happened to have
a Notepad++.lnk shortcut - probably due to an update or whatever).

> So I suggest you post this to a windows scripting NG
> or try something yourself;

While I've coded when I've needed to, I don't like the way they all do the
same thing with different syntax, which I have no patience for nowadays.

Coding to me is like visiting someone in their house and having to follow
their very strange rules on how to hold the fork, how to sit, which chair to
sit on, how to ask to go to the bathroom and when, etc.

I have no patience anymore for programming languages which all do the same
thing with completely different esoteric syntax rules.

What I was _hoping_ for was to find that I wasn't the first person to want
my newsreader composition window to open up in an editor of my choice, which
is what I originally searched for using Google.

I was surprised I'm the first person to want to open up a composition window
in _any_ editor where I was hoping to repurpose the call to "editor1" and to
change it to "editor2" which I would think, if the code exists, would be
easy.

But alas, the code doesn't appear to exist as I may be the first person to
want to do this, at least with Dialog. Sigh.

> Autokey was the one I used to use; but it's important to ensure you're
> on the correct window before issuing the keystrokes!

I am a believer in doing things the "native" way when possible in terms of
getting Windows to do what Windows needs to do.

So, for example, I never added WinXP Classic Menu tools just to get a WinXP
menu since WinXP menus were ALWAYS native on Windows, yes, even on Windows 8
and Windows 10 (we'll see about Windows 11).

It's just that Microsoft wanted to "look" different in Windows 8 that they
removed the accordion style cascade pullout WinXP menu from plain sight -
but it was ALWAYS still there - and - in fact - I moved (literally) the
files from WinXP and they worked perfectly on Win8 which I then moved to
Win10 (different machines!) and they _still_ worked perfectly.

Of course, I put all my programs in the same place on all machines so that
might not work for people less organized than I am - but it works for me.

That's a long-winded way of saying that I don't like to use AutoKey (or
Nirsoft tools, or sysinternals, or defaultprogramseditor, winaero,
majorgeekstweeks, etc.) tools unless the capability truly isn't there in
native Windows (and it usually is).

Thanks for your help.
I usually see you when I'm lurking over on the a.u.e newsgroup.

Regards,
bill

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:11:12 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Lewis - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:11 UTC

In message <sf36l4$9fk$2@dont-email.me> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
>>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

>>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
>>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
>>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
>>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.

> What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
> in a text editor display?

What do you mean? People can set their tab stops in text editors to
whatever they want. Coders tend to use 3 or 4, but I have seen 6 often
enough.

>Sure, that can happen using a word processor.

Mo, word processors do not use spaces for tabs at all.

>>I use spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2
>>space characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.

> Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
> annoying.

I agree that using two spaces instead of a tab is annoying. However,
using 3 or 4 is common. In fact, in my primary editor I have it set so
that when I hit tab it inserts 3 spaces instead of a tab character. This
means regardless of what editor I open the file in, the text looks the
same, not the case if I use a tab character. I would say the minimum
acceptable is 3 and the maximum anyone should use is 6.

> Someone might choose a variable-width font for display because
> he finds it easier to read, and there are no tabs to line up.

If you are using a proportional font for viewing plain text files,
you're on your own.

>>I just can't see why you need Notepad++ when all you need is a very
>>basic text editor for text-only messages composed in and sent by Dialog.

Notepad++ has many very useful features. Yes, you CAN use a very basic
text editor, but that will ne very basic. If you do not need or care
about the features of Notepad++ then don't use it, but many people do
care and many people do use those features.

>>Maybe I missed that part. Seems a lot of work to throw a monster text
>>editor at a simple job; i.e., swatting a fly with a cannon.

> Some people just get used to a feature-rich environment. I use vim which
> has dozens of commands I use rarely but it's nice to have access to them
> when I need them, plus numerous commands I've never used or learned to use.

I would not consider Notepad++ a "monster text editor"

--
>>Trying?
>if you quote yoda, i swear upon everything holy that i will book a
> flight to okinawa to kick your ass.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: b.rose.t...@arcor.de (Bernd Rose)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 20:07:29 +0200
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 by: Bernd Rose - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 18:07 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:37:05 +0200, bill wrote:

>> you can pin Notepad++ directly to the taskbar while running.
>
> Of course. But I already stated that I'm extremely well organized.
> Everything has a place.

And I told you the three places, where keyboard shortcuts are recognized
by the Windows OS without severe additional effort. If you will not use
any of the 3 places (to keep your systematic order), then you have to
forgo shortcuts, altogether. (Or set up specific keyboard interception
tools.) - Running in circles with impossibilities is fruitless.

> Besides, _all_ the programs I use, including the editors, have an AppPaths
> key dedicated to bringing them up if and when I (rarely) want to.
>
> So, for example, to bring up "vim", I just type [windows][r][v][enter].
> To bring up Notepad++, I type [windows][r][n][enter].
> To bring up MS Word, I type [windows][r][w][enter].
> etcetera

These are no shortcuts, but keystroke sequences. *Huge* difference!

> For decades for organizational reasons, my choice has been to not put file
> editor shortcuts in the taskbar.

/Or/ on desktop /or/ the start menu. Then all standard choices are exhausted
and EOT.
Bernd

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: snipec...@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 19:17:31 +0100
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 by: Sn!pe - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 18:17 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
> >>>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.
>
> >>>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
> >>>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
> >>>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
> >>>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.
>
> >>What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
> >>in a text editor display? Sure, that can happen using a word processor.
>
> >>>I use spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2
> >>>space characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.
>
> >>Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
> >>annoying.
>
> >I beg to differ. Tabs are only meaningful if you can be certain what
> >all your readers' tab settings are, which just ain't possible on Usenet.
> >I say use spaces and a fixed-width font to do reliable tabulation.
>
> 8-position tabs are a long-standing convention. Yeah, I know clients
> don't always implement conventions properly.
>

Agreed. MacSOUP (my 'reader) defaults to 8.

> >>Someone might choose a variable-width font for display because
> >>he finds it easier to read, and there are no tabs to line up.
>
> >Tabs are useless in variable-width fonts because the width of such
> >fonts varies, one compared with another.
>
> The width of the characters are variable, sure, but tabs still make the
> columns line up as intended.
>

I'm not convinced...

> Tab is a proper ASCII character. I object to clients that won't include
> the tab character even if the user desires to use it.
>

I see where you're coming from with that. Yes, of course.

--
^Ï^ <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 20:07:46 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 20:07 UTC

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.don-t-email-me.com> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
>>>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

>>>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
>>>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
>>>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
>>>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.

>>What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
>>in a text editor display?

>What do you mean?

I mean exactly what I had written.

>People can set their tab stops in text editors to whatever they
>want. Coders tend to use 3 or 4, but I have seen 6 often enough.

Mail and News clients expect an 8-position tab by convention. If someone
is aware of the convention yet changes his display to something else,
that's not an argument to the author not to use tab stops.

>>. . .

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
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 by: Quinn C - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 23:39 UTC

* Adam H. Kerman:

> Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
>>>annoying.
>
>>I beg to differ. Tabs are only meaningful if you can be certain what
>>all your readers' tab settings are, which just ain't possible on Usenet.
>>I say use spaces and a fixed-width font to do reliable tabulation.
>
> 8-position tabs are a long-standing convention. Yeah, I know clients
> don't always implement conventions properly.

I agree with others who've said that tab has no defined meaning on
Usenet (or in emails).

--
A "moderate Republican" now is a far-right Republican who
publicly laments it.
-- John Fugelsang (2021)

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
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 by: Quinn C - Thu, 12 Aug 2021 23:39 UTC

* Lewis:

> In message <sf36l4$9fk$2@dont-email.me> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
>>>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.
>
>>>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
>>>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
>>>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
>>>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.
>
>> What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
>> in a text editor display?
>
> What do you mean? People can set their tab stops in text editors to
> whatever they want. Coders tend to use 3 or 4, but I have seen 6 often
> enough.
>
>>Sure, that can happen using a word processor.
>
> Mo, word processors do not use spaces for tabs at all.
>
>>>I use spaces instead of tab: 2 space characters in my article is also 2
>>>space characters seen by the user when reading my article in their client.
>
>> Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
>> annoying.
>
> I agree that using two spaces instead of a tab is annoying. However,
> using 3 or 4 is common. In fact, in my primary editor I have it set so
> that when I hit tab it inserts 3 spaces instead of a tab character. This
> means regardless of what editor I open the file in, the text looks the
> same, not the case if I use a tab character. I would say the minimum
> acceptable is 3 and the maximum anyone should use is 6.

At my company, we don't use tabs in code, either (Java, so indent is for
readability by humans only). Our convention is to indent by four space
characters per level.

In the Ruby community, the conventional indent is two spaces. Nobody's
going to use tabs for that, I hope.
--
.... English-speaking people have managed to get along a good many
centuries with the present supply of pronouns; ... It is so old and
venerable an argument ... it's equivalent was used when gas, railways
and steamboats were proposed. -- Findlay (OH) Jeffersonian (1875)

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 19:05:32 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 00:05 UTC

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
> in a text editor display? Sure, that can happen using a word processor.

Spacing for a tab character is the purview of the client. The client
decides how wide to make a tab (which might equate to some number of
space characters, but not necessarily). You have no control over what
client the reader uses when reading your post.

Some clients let you specify how many space characters are used for the
width of a tab character. Could be 2 spaces, 4 spaces, 8 spaces, or
aligned to the left edge of the beginning of the preceding line.

> Well, you shouldn't substitute spaces for tabs because that's just
> annoying. Someone might choose a variable-width font for display because
> he finds it easier to read, and there are no tabs to line up.

I cannot control how a user configures their client regarding handling
of tabs. If they use variable fonts, NOTHING WILL LINE UP with tabular
data! If you select to view as plain-text, you should also be using a
monospaced font.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 19:08:00 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 00:08 UTC

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> 8-position tabs are a long-standing convention. Yeah, I know clients
> don't always implement conventions properly.

8 positions ... of what? 8 space characters? If so, those will be
different than the width of other non-whitespace characters, so
tabulation of content would be impossible. If you use variable-width
fonts, you accept that tabulated data will never align. You use
monospaced fonts with plain-text messages.

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
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Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
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 by: VanguardLH - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 00:12 UTC

Bernd Rose <b.rose.tmpbox@arcor.de> wrote:

> And I told you the three places, where keyboard shortcuts are recognized
> by the Windows OS without severe additional effort. If you will not use
> any of the 3 places (to keep your systematic order), then you have to
> forgo shortcuts, altogether. (Or set up specific keyboard interception
> tools.) - Running in circles with impossibilities is fruitless.

Or toss even more software at the solution, like AutoHotkey, AutoIt, a
macro for a programmable key in the keyboard, or something that gets
installed that will intercept a hotkey combination.

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From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
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Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
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 by: Lewis - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 00:54 UTC

In message <sf3v2i$u6u$1@dont-email.me> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.don-t-email-me.com> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>VanguardLH <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>>>What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
>>>>won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

>>>>Better be careful when aligning text in a text-only compose window. Tab
>>>>on one computer could be 4 space characters while on another computer
>>>>could be 8 space characters, so someone reading your article may not see
>>>>the alignment you selected, and line-wrap could screw it all up.

>>>What is an example of using a 4 space tab by default in lieu of 8 spaces
>>>in a text editor display?

>>What do you mean?

> I mean exactly what I had written.

What you wrote doesn't make sense.

>>People can set their tab stops in text editors to whatever they
>>want. Coders tend to use 3 or 4, but I have seen 6 often enough.

> Mail and News clients expect an 8-position tab by convention.

According to whom?

> If someone is aware of the convention yet changes his display to
> something else, that's not an argument to the author not to use tab
> stops.

I don't think I have ever seen anything set to 8 spaces for a tab since
the days of typewriters, which were not used for mail or newsgroup
clients.

--
Clicked "Debug" button. Program still has bugs. Wtf? - Rich Seigel

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 03:55:28 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: bill - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 01:55 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 19:12:46 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
>> And I told you the three places, where keyboard shortcuts are recognized
>> by the Windows OS without severe additional effort. If you will not use
>> any of the 3 places (to keep your systematic order), then you have to
>> forgo shortcuts, altogether. (Or set up specific keyboard interception
>> tools.) - Running in circles with impossibilities is fruitless.
>
> Or toss even more software at the solution, like AutoHotkey, AutoIt, a
> macro for a programmable key in the keyboard, or something that gets
> installed that will intercept a hotkey combination.

Thanks to all for helping to solve this problem where I strive to use native
tools to modify Windows so AutoHotkey would be the last tool I would use
(along with sysinternals, nirsoft, majorgeekstweaks, winaero, windows
classic menu, windowsclub, etc., all of which I'm well aware of what they
do).

Instead of kludges, I use _native_ Windows to effect all my changes
(if possible).

What I was hoping was that I wasn't the first person to want Dialog to edit
in any given editor (whether that's vim or notepad++ or emacs or atom, etc).

Then I would just repurpose the call to editor1 and change it to editor2.

From what Bernd said, that's not going to easily happen, and certainly I'm
not the one to write the script, so the next best thing is to continue with
what I was doing, which is cut and paste into the editor of choice.

What I like most about vim is my many decades of finger memory can do
anything, so 1/4 of the time I'm pasting into vim when I need to munge the
text appreciably.

But vim can't handle the pasting of inconsistent "web characters" of which
there are thousands out there starting from "curly quotes" and ranging to
invisible "non zero width breaking spaces" (with thousands in between) so
when I'm combining quotes from multiple articles 1/4 of the time I'm
composing in Notepad++ which can call macros that handle things that I
haven't figured out yet how to find-and-replace in vim (for example, many
characters show up as black rectangles in vim that show up in Notepad++).

Of course 1/2 the time the default Dialog editor works just fine (as with
this note of thanks, which doesn't really contain either the pasted quotes
from web articles nor does it contain data lists that need to be munged).

Bernd mentioned that the shortcut (Notepad++.lnk) has to be in one of three
places in order for the [control][alt][n] to work and I understood that from
the start (it's just that I don't generally use those three places but for
now I have a Notepad++.lnk with the [control][alt][n] defined as the only
item in my StartMenu.

Vanguard mentioned there's nothing horrible about the standard Dialog
composition window which I agree with half the time (see why the Dialog
composition window fails in the other half above).

A few people mentioned all sorts of workarounds but the real workaround
would be to find out that I'm not the first person to want to have Dialog
call an external editor from the composition window.

Then I would take THAT dialog pascal ds code and change "editor1" to
"editor1" and we'd all be happy with that solution (if it exists).

A second option Bernd already explained would fail, which would have been to
save a Draft to the file system and then bring up that draft with any
editor, but that's even less likely to happen than finding someone else who
has written code to have Dialog call an external editor that I can
repurpose.

In the end, I'm happy with the solution I already have where the
[control][alt][n] suggestion from KerrMudgeon saved me a couple of
keystrokes over what I was using which was [windows][r][n][enter].

I am always wanting to save keystrokes just as I'm always striving for near
perfect grammar and, as such, was heartened to see that three people from
a.u.e came over here (Quinn, Curmudgeon, and Lewis) to help us out.

Regards,
bill
--
Why was the pencil brought in for questioning
Because they thought he was sketchy

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: b.rose.t...@arcor.de (Bernd Rose)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 05:53:54 +0200
Message-ID: <1lo779jiegvl3$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>
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 by: Bernd Rose - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 03:53 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 19:12:46 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Bernd Rose <b.rose.tmpbox@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> And I told you the three places, where keyboard shortcuts are recognized
>> by the Windows OS without severe additional effort. If you will not use
>> any of the 3 places (to keep your systematic order), then you have to
>> forgo shortcuts, altogether. (Or set up specific keyboard interception
>> tools.) - Running in circles with impossibilities is fruitless.
>
> Or toss even more software at the solution, like AutoHotkey, AutoIt, a
> macro for a programmable key in the keyboard, or something that gets
> installed that will intercept a hotkey combination.

Yes!

Apart from this approach: Even with extreme self-restrictions wrt. placing
shortcuts to programs only in completely logical places and leave desktop,
taskbar and start menu as clean and empty as possible: I do not see, why
bill doesn't just create a dedicated subfolder in the start menu named
"Hotkey-Center" (or sth. like that). He then could place each and every
(icon) shortcut to programs there, which he wants to assigne a (hotkey)
shortcut to. - This would be logical, clean and unobtrusive...

Bernd

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 23:56:33 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 04:56 UTC

bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> What I was hoping was that I wasn't the first person to want Dialog to edit
> in any given editor (whether that's vim or notepad++ or emacs or atom, etc).

That would require an add-on, extension, or plug-in interface where you
could, for example, use a plug-in to call an external program. Dialog
was discontinued back in 2002 with a slight update in 2005. It is
abandonware, so what it had then is what it still has and will continue
to only have. I use it, it's a good NNTP client, scripts made it
configurable, but it's been long dead.

I don't know if the source code is available. The site for the scripts
disappeared, so probably the source code vaporized, too. From BernD's
mention, and from the scripts you can add to Dialog, looks like Dialog
was written using Delphi (aka Object Pascal).

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 07:01:50 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: bill - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 05:01 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 05:53:54 +0200, Bernd Rose wrote:
> I do not see, why
> bill doesn't just create a dedicated subfolder in the start menu named
> "Hotkey-Center" (or sth. like that). He then could place each and every
> (icon) shortcut to programs there, which he wants to assigne a (hotkey)
> shortcut to. - This would be logical, clean and unobtrusive...

That's a great idea as it could be the only section of the StartMenu NOT
cleaned out periodically of the crud that goes there over time by programs.
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Hotkey-Center\

At the moment, the ONLY thing in my StartMenu is this one Notepad++ shortcut
anyway, which I could easily put in that subfolder in the StartMenu.

Nonetheless, what's odd is that I can't be the first person to want the
newsreader to bring up an editor of choice, so I'll keep looking to see if
there's a dialog script somewhere to bring up "editor1" that I can repurpose
to bring up "editor2."

I'll let you know when or if I find it.

Regards,
bill
--
What do you call a pencil sharpener that can't sharpen pencils?
Broken

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 11:18 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:54:14 +0200
bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:07:12 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> >> I just tried it in this composition Window and it worked nicely.
> >> That saves a few keystrokes.
> >>
> > Excellent
>
> Hi Curmudgeon,
> I'm very happy you stepped in to help us with that [control][alt][n]
> keyboard shortcut to bring up Notepad++ for the cut and paste operation.

No worries, bill; or can I call you Mr Cunningham?

> I learned a lot in that it works beautifully, assuming the Notepad++.lnk
> shortcut is in the places most people normal store it (e.g., in the
> StartMenu, which I normally keep quite empty but which had happened to have
> a Notepad++.lnk shortcut - probably due to an update or whatever).
>
> > So I suggest you post this to a windows scripting NG
> > or try something yourself;
>
> While I've coded when I've needed to, I don't like the way they all do the
> same thing with different syntax, which I have no patience for nowadays.

Ah well, you'll have to stick with all those keystrokes.
[]
> Thanks for your help.
> I usually see you when I'm lurking over on the a.u.e newsgroup.
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
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 by: Quinn C - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:08 UTC

* VanguardLH:

> bill <bill@spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> What I was hoping was that I wasn't the first person to want Dialog to edit
>> in any given editor (whether that's vim or notepad++ or emacs or atom, etc).
>
> That would require an add-on, extension, or plug-in interface where you
> could, for example, use a plug-in to call an external program. Dialog
> was discontinued back in 2002 with a slight update in 2005. It is
> abandonware, so what it had then is what it still has and will continue
> to only have. I use it, it's a good NNTP client, scripts made it
> configurable, but it's been long dead.
>
> I don't know if the source code is available.

It is not, never was.

> The site for the scripts
> disappeared, so probably the source code vaporized, too.

Many scripts are available here, but the descriptions are in German
only: <https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_tb_scripts/index.php>

> From BernD's
> mention, and from the scripts you can add to Dialog, looks like Dialog
> was written using Delphi (aka Object Pascal).

Correct.

--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<sf65dq$1mr2$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:08:42 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf65dq$1mr2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: bill - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 16:08 UTC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 02:05:08 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> What is all this text-mode editing that Dialog's own compose window
> won't handle? Doesn't sound like your doing HTML, but just text.

1. I use Dialog's composition window about 1/2 the time for just text.
2. I use vim's composition window 1/4 of the time for detailed lists.
3. I use Notepad++ 1/4 of the time when I'm copying lots of HTML text.

To your point though, the Dialog composition window works 1/2 the time.
Dialog has one nice editing feature of [control][shift][o] that's nice!
Otherwise, it's a "normal" text editor with all the normal capabilities.

Hence there is nothing wrong with the Dialog's composition window for most
people. And, in fact, I use the Dialog composition window when I'm typing up
short non detailed not well cited off the cuff replies just like you would.

But I'm not at all like most people in some critically important ways.

I'm extremely detailed (as you are) in some of my Usenet posts (as are you).
I quote a helluva LOT of things. I include a lot of contextual details.

In fact, almost all my editing outside of 40Tude Dialog is done on vim since
I grew up on UNIX variants where "ed" and "vi" were the only editors you
knew would always be there (well before the days of "nano" & "emacs").

My persistent finger memory on vim commands impresses even my brain, at
times. :) I've lost my memory in all but my fingers it seems. :)

> I just can't see why you need Notepad++ when all you need is a very
> basic text editor for text-only messages composed in and sent by Dialog.
> Maybe I missed that part. Seems a lot of work to throw a monster text
> editor at a simple job; i.e., swatting a fly with a cannon.

The main problem that Notepad++ solves is inconsistent punctuation.
Notepad++ fixes inconsistent punctuation more easily than vim does.

When I cut and paste from a mix of sources, for example, the curly quote
stuff is inconsistent, and as you can tell by now, I deplore inconsistency.

In vim, this inconsistent punctuation shows up fine in some cases and as a
black square in others, but it's not as easily fixed in vim as in Notepad++.

Remember, I re-purpose existing macros, so I found an existing macro for
Notepad++ which works beautifully, which is mostly why it helps with Dialog.

In Notepad, with a quick keyboard combination I am able to fix all known
inconsistencies in punctuation (there are dozens I've found over time).

Some of these inconsistencies in web punctuation you barely even _see_ with
the naked eye (e.g., non zero width spaces) but I still care about them.

Each time I find a new punctuation inconsistency, I add it to the Notepad++
macro which makes the result more pleasing to the eye of the beholder.

That way YOU (the customer!) sees consistent punctuation including when non
zero breaking spaces and other web-fancy crap is used in the originals.

After having said that, I still can't be the first person to ever want a
newsreader to compose in my favorite editor (which would be vim, by the
way). Can I be?

Regards,
bill

I note this post was done entirely in Dialog because it wasn't detailed,
nor did it contain quotes from a variety of outside sources so it was short
and simple and hence it didn't _need_ the power of a full-fledged editor.

Regards,
bill
--
Why are pencils and communism so similar?
They both only work on paper!

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<sf65r5$1ter$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:15:49 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf65r5$1ter$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sevelu$1qrk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <l01qbjvknuqe.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf0pg9$16vs$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20210811163605.abc503d2af7b32d36dd31e34@127.0.0.1> <sf12g8$1bn1$1@gioia.aioe.org> <aje23prjgwng.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf23af$18a9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <1qaeainv3x9gl$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf3f6h$k0u$1@gioia.aioe.org> <86lyjunafj21$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <70r516k5wr9t$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf4je0$1df4$1@gioia.aioe.org> <yy262xjf68wl$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <1k696hgvh99d.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>
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 by: bill - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 16:15 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 10:08:32 -0400, Quinn C wrote:
> Many scripts are available here, but the descriptions are in German
> only: <https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_tb_scripts/index.php>

I don't know German but Google translate might help me.
I had seen that repo but I was looking in the wayback machine mostly.

In addition, I found out in the Windows newsgroup a trick explained below.
> If you hold down CTRL+SHIFT while tapping the key, the
> shortcut becomes CTRL+SHIFT+(key).

Here's how I tested it.

1. First I tested both combinations on a new machine.
[control][alt][n] did nothing when run with the focus on the desktop.
With focus on the desktop [control][shift][n] created a new folder

2. Then I created two Notepad++.lnk shortcuts with the "Shortcut key".
A StartMenu "Notepad++.lnk "Shortcut key" was set to [control][alt][n]
A Desktop "Notepad++.lnk "Shortcut key" was set to[control][shift][n]

While editing the Notepad++.lnk properties "Shortcut key" field,
if you hold down CTRL+SHIFT while tapping the key, the shortcut key
switches from CTRL+ALT+(key) to CTRL+SHIFT+(key).

3. Then when I tested both combinations.
[control][alt][n] opened Notepad++
[control][shift][n] no longer created a new folder - it opened Notepad++

Regards,
bill
--
So I was going to tell you a joke about a broken pencil...
But nevermind, it's pointless.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<an0k6nzbgcqh$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>

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From: b.rose.t...@arcor.de (Bernd Rose)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:15:36 +0200
Message-ID: <an0k6nzbgcqh$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>
References: <sevelu$1qrk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <l01qbjvknuqe.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf0pg9$16vs$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20210811163605.abc503d2af7b32d36dd31e34@127.0.0.1> <sf12g8$1bn1$1@gioia.aioe.org> <aje23prjgwng.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf23af$18a9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <1qaeainv3x9gl$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf3f6h$k0u$1@gioia.aioe.org> <86lyjunafj21$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <70r516k5wr9t$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <1lo779jiegvl3$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf4ube$r5v$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Bernd Rose - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 16:15 UTC

On Fri, 13th Aug 2021 07:01:50 +0200, bill wrote:

> Nonetheless, what's odd is that I can't be the first person to want the
> newsreader to bring up an editor of choice, so I'll keep looking to see if
> there's a dialog script somewhere to bring up "editor1" that I can repurpose
> to bring up "editor2."
>
> I'll let you know when or if I find it.

I followed most of the discussions on 40tude scripting over the years.
Therefore, I know where to look. (And usually, what I'll find.)

Moreover, I already wrote you, which functions would have to be called
in what order, to roughly achieve what you want. And I pointed out some
potential quirks. - Like wrap override characters, which aren't part of
the general text buffer. Instead, they get a special treatment, which
will only be applied when these characters are manually entered inside
the Dialog Compose window. (And not when imported with a text from disk
or clipboard.)

If you /really/ want to go this way, then take the Korrnews script from
Jarrod Cifer as a starting point:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120127150159/http://dialog.datalist.org/scripts/ScriptSaveOutboundMessage.html

To cite his final note:
| Obviously any other external program can be used as well.

Bernd

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<sf668m$408$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:23:02 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf668m$408$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sevelu$1qrk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <l01qbjvknuqe.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf0pg9$16vs$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20210811163605.abc503d2af7b32d36dd31e34@127.0.0.1> <sf12g8$1bn1$1@gioia.aioe.org> <aje23prjgwng.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf23af$18a9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <1qaeainv3x9gl$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf3f6h$k0u$1@gioia.aioe.org> <86lyjunafj21$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <70r516k5wr9t$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <1lo779jiegvl3$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf4ube$r5v$1@gioia.aioe.org> <an0k6nzbgcqh$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>
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 by: bill - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 16:23 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:15:36 +0200, Bernd Rose wrote:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20120127150159/http://dialog.datalist.org/scripts/ScriptSaveOutboundMessage.html

Thanks for unearthing that as I was looking through the wayback machine
and guessing that the editor was either "notepad" or "vim" or "emacs", etc.

> To cite his final note:
> | Obviously any other external program can be used as well.

After changing the program below from "korrnews" to "notepad++",
since I already have an OnBeforeSendingMessage script, do I just
concatenate this after the existing OnBeforeSendingMessage script?

program OnBeforeSendingMessage;

function OnBeforeSendingMessage(var Message: TStringlist; Servername: string; IsEmail: boolean):boolean;
begin
result:=true;
message.savetofile('C:\temp.txt');
//give korrnews 5000 milliseconds for this, otherwise give up
FileExecute(0,'F:\Korrnews\korrnews.exe','open','Type:news Filename:"C:\temp.txt"','',1,5000);
message.loadfromfile('C:\temp.txt');
end;

begin
end.

--
So I used a blunt pencil yesterday...
It was pointless.

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<uci12ip228kn.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>

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From: b.rose.t...@arcor.de (Bernd Rose)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:26:36 +0200
Message-ID: <uci12ip228kn.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de>
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 by: Bernd Rose - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:26 UTC

On Fr, 13th Aug 2021 18:23:02 +0200, bill wrote:

>> http://web.archive.org/web/20120127150159/http://dialog.datalist.org/scripts/ScriptSaveOutboundMessage.html
[...]
> After changing the program below from "korrnews" to "notepad++",
> since I already have an OnBeforeSendingMessage script, do I just
> concatenate this after the existing OnBeforeSendingMessage script?

In theory: You mix both scripts into one and order the commands in
a logical way during that mixing.

In practice: You don't do it, at all!

Having the right commands at hands isn't even half of it. Placing
such a call to an external editor in OnBeforeSendingMessage cries
out for problems. You'd need to hit <Send> inside the 40tude Compose
window before even beginning with editing. You sure could add a
return value of failure to this script, which would bring you back
to the editor. If you do not return, but send unconditionally, you
loose the ability to cancel a post. Of course, you can add another
inquiry ("Send or not?") to the script. But this would, again, just
increase complexity.

Sometimes, you may wish just to send a message without the detour
to Notepad++. Permitting this, requires additional code. As would
returning from Notepad++, cancelling the send, changing a bit within
the 40tude Compose window and /then/ send.

Because 40tude assigns charsets on-the-fly, your saved intermediate
text file could have /any/ encoding. After loading the text inside
Notepad++, you may need to adjust the encoding to avoid the creation
of mixed-encoding texts. (Which will lead to wrong characters after
sending.) Reloading the text into the 40tude text buffer may again
result in a misinterpretation of the current charset and encoding
errors. (When loading from disk, 40tude has not the means to deduce
the charset, that it has when accepting input from keystrokes.)

And on top of all that: The current korrnews script expects the text
back from the external program after 5 seconds. You sure could tinker
with this value without problems. But do you know a time span, which
is long enough for your longest (or most researched and revised)
texts as well as not too long for your quickest responses? - Most
likely not. So you'd need to walk a /completely/ different path.

And there is more to be considered...

It wasn't by accident, that I initially recommended to /not/ pursue
the approach of calling an external editor by 40tude Dialog script.
And I /still/ strongly advise you, to leave this matter be...

Bernd

Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++

<sf6aii$54t$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: bil...@spam.invalid (bill)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: [dialog] Can I set dialog to edit in Notepad++
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:36:34 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf6aii$54t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sevelu$1qrk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <l01qbjvknuqe.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf0pg9$16vs$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20210811163605.abc503d2af7b32d36dd31e34@127.0.0.1> <sf12g8$1bn1$1@gioia.aioe.org> <aje23prjgwng.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <sf23af$18a9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <1qaeainv3x9gl$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf3f6h$k0u$1@gioia.aioe.org> <86lyjunafj21$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <70r516k5wr9t$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <1lo779jiegvl3$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf4ube$r5v$1@gioia.aioe.org> <an0k6nzbgcqh$.dlg@b.rose.tmpbox.news.arcor.de> <sf668m$408$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: bill - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:36 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:23:02 +0200, bill wrote:
> After changing the program below from "korrnews" to "notepad++",
> since I already have an OnBeforeSendingMessage script, do I just
> concatenate this after the existing OnBeforeSendingMessage script?

Every time I try to put TWO functions inside of OnBeforeSendingMessage
I fail because I don't know how to put the two functions together into
OnBeforeSendingMessage.

Anyway, the original program originally failed but I got it to work standalone.
It has a dubious benefit that it seems to also allow header edits.
(Editing headers would be risky, at best, I would think.)

*But I can't get it to work with my _existing_ OnBeforeSendingMessage.*

But standalone it works.

Here's where I am where I started with this.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120127150159/http://dialog.datalist.org/scripts/ScriptSaveOutboundMessage.html

program OnBeforeSendingMessage;

function OnBeforeSendingMessage(var Message: TStringlist; Servername: string; IsEmail: boolean):boolean;
begin
result:=true;
message.savetofile('C:\temp.txt');
//give korrnews 5000 milliseconds for this, otherwise give up
FileExecute(0,'F:\Korrnews\korrnews.exe','open','Type:news Filename:"C:\temp.txt"','',1,5000);
message.loadfromfile('C:\temp.txt');
end;

begin
end.

I first changed that to point to a different file and editor.

function OnBeforeSendingMessage(var Message: TStringlist; Servername: string; IsEmail: boolean):boolean;
begin
result:=true;
message.savetofile('C:\temp\dialog.txt');
FileExecute(0,'C:\program files\notepad++\notepad++.exe','open','Type:news Filename:"C:\temp\dialog.txt"','',1,5000);
message.loadfromfile('C:\temp\dialog.txt');
end;

begin
end.

That gave the following errors, in 1,2,3 sequence.

"C:\program files\dialog\Type:news" doesn't exist. Create it?
"C:\program files\dialog\Filename" doesn't exist. Create it?
Cannot create the file "C:\program files\dialog\Filename".

So I changed the program to this (which worked without errors).
[Notice I completely removed "Type:news Filename:" to make it work.]

function OnBeforeSendingMessage(var Message: TStringlist; Servername: string; IsEmail: boolean):boolean;
begin
result:=true;
message.savetofile('C:\temp\dialog.txt');
FileExecute(0,'C:\program files\notepad++\notepad++.exe','open','"C:\temp\dialog.txt"','',1,50000);
message.loadfromfile('C:\temp\dialog.txt');
end;

begin
end.

That works perfectly - but only when it's the only OnBeforeSendingMessage script.
1. The Dialog composition window comes up.
2. When I select Dialog's Action->Send Now it opens it in Notepad++.
3. When I save and exit Notepad++ only then does it send the message.

So it works but I _already_ have an OnBeforeSendingMessage script.
I can't for the life of me figure out the syntax of combining the two.

Can you give me a hint how to get it to work with my existing "OnBeforeSendingMessage"?
I already tried all the ways of moving the "begin/end" stuff around.

How do you get _TWO_ OnBeforeSendingMessage procedures to work sequentially?

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server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor