On 02/02/2022 12:54, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We have two new laptops running W10 x64 Pro. Both are ready to update to
> W11. Which is what I am going to do.
> I understood that there are two applications to make W11 look like w10:
> Start11_setup.exe and StartAllBack_3.2.1_setup.exe. Which one is the
> best? Or is there anything else?
>
> Thanks beforehand for your answers.
>
> Fokke

Thanks all for your replies.

I was running Classic Shell on my W10 system and continued to do so in
W11. So I have the W7 menu again.
Further on I installed Start11 and made the settings so it looked like
W10 again. I'm happy now.
To all of you who need to update W10 to W11 and like the W10 settings, I
can advice Start11. If you like the W7 start menu, use Classic Shell.

Fokke

Robbie Hatley <see.my.signature@for.my.contact.info> wrote:
>
> On 2/2/22 08:11, "Ken Blake" wrote the following false statement in
> newsgroup alt.comp.os.windows-10 :
>
> > It's absolute bullshit [to think that giving programs from unknown
> > sources complete control over one's operating system is dangerous].
>
> I cannot, in good conscience, allow this falsehood to go unchallenged.

Get off you high horse!

First of all, Ken did not say what you imply (i.e. no quote) he said.
Don't put words in people's mouths.

Secondly, the discussion was *not* about "programs from unknown
sources", but from (very well) *known* sources. That *you* apparently
don't know what Start11 and Startallback are, is your problem, not the
group's.

You're clearly new here. That's fine. But there's no place for your
insinuations and insults.

[...]

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 22:03:24 -0500, ...w�񧱤n <winstonmvp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:12:39 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/02/2022 17:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 14:11:19 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/02/2022 13:51, Robbie Hatley wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 3:54 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have two new laptops running W10 x64 Pro. Both are ready to update
>>>>>>> to W11. Which is what I am going to do.
>>>>>>> I understood that there are two applications to make W11 look like
>>>>>>> w10: Start11_setup.exe and StartAllBack_3.2.1_setup.exe. Which one is
>>>>>>> the best? Or is there anything else?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks beforehand for your answers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fokke
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are file names, not names of programs.
>>>>>
>>>>> The names of the programs are Start11 and Startallback, which is clear
>>>>> when you look at the executables.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or even if you just look at the name "Start11_setup.exe and
>>>> StartAllBack_3.2.1_setup.exe."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> What are the names of those
>>>>>> two programs? Who wrote those programs? And why did they write them?
>>>>>> You need to answer THOSE questions FIRST before considering running
>>>>>> programs that will severely alter your operating system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frankly, unless the author is Microsoft, I strongly recommend NOT running
>>>>>> such software, because such software is usually created for nefarious
>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's absolute bullshit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <G> You said the same thing I did, but you said it more strongly. Yes,
>>>> I agree with you. It's absolute bullshit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> It may be full of adware, spyware, or viruses. If you allow
>>>>>> such software to corrupt your system, you may find that the only way to
>>>>>> repair the damage will be to format your SSD or HD and reinstall Windows
>>>>>> from scratch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would you want Windows 11 to look like Windows 10 anyway?
>>>>>> "Look like" in what way? And, if you like the look of Windows 10,
>>>>>> why not just keep using Windows 10?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because W10 is no longer supported in 2025.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But I disagree with that. It doesn't matter. "No longer supported"
>>>> means it no longer gets updates. It does *not* mean you can no longer
>>>> run it.
>>>
>>> That's true. But updates are really important to keep your system safe.
>>> And if you don't receive updates anymore, the system may become vulnerable.
>>
>>
>> As long as you run good third-party security software that's kept up
>> to date, it doesn't matter.
>>
>Not always true since no updates indicates the built in security and
>patches are no longer include current protection thus relying on a later
>point in time indicator/monitor(3rd party software) to prevent
>vulnerability intrusion including it's lag time to release and update its
>defs.
> - Additional but very minor risk, but it does negate the 'it doesn't
>matter' condition.

OK, I'll amend what I said to "it almost doesn't matter." For almost
everyone, it's close enough to "it doesn't matter."

On 3 Feb 2022 15:26:46 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>Robbie Hatley <see.my.signature@for.my.contact.info> wrote:
>>
>> On 2/2/22 08:11, "Ken Blake" wrote the following false statement in
>> newsgroup alt.comp.os.windows-10 :
>>
>> > It's absolute bullshit [to think that giving programs from unknown
>> > sources complete control over one's operating system is dangerous].
>>
>> I cannot, in good conscience, allow this falsehood to go unchallenged.
>
> Get off you high horse!
>
> First of all, Ken did not say what you imply (i.e. no quote) he said.
>Don't put words in people's mouths.
>
> Secondly, the discussion was *not* about "programs from unknown
>sources", but from (very well) *known* sources. That *you* apparently
>don't know what Start11 and Startallback are, is your problem, not the
>group's.
>
> You're clearly new here. That's fine. But there's no place for your
>insinuations and insults.

Thanks for the support. I'll give him a few more days, but he'll
probably end up my killfile soon.

Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 02/02/2022 18:33, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>> On 02/02/2022 17:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:54:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are right. But I would like to start with Start11, as it has a
>>> trial period, I read. Startallback, I don't know.
>>> But:
>>> I used Classic Shell, and running it now, the same W7 start menu
>>> comes back! And turning icons on the task bar at the left side,
>>> does it alsmost look like W10!
>>>
>>> But I'm gonna try Start11. I'm curious.
>>>
>>> Fokke
>>
>> I assume by Classic Shell you mean what is now Open Shell. I use it
>> with Windows 10 on 3 computers with the W7 options. I am glad to
>> hear it still works well because in 2025 I will have no choice but
>> to move to W11. People think differently so how one person wants
>> their computer organized does not fit with the way another does. That is
>> why they are called personal computers. Neither person is
>> wrong.
>
> I don't know Open Shell but use Classic Shell. Has the old W7 start
> menu. And I have installed Start11, for the finishing touch.
> I'm happy with it.
>
> Fokke

Classic Shell developement has changed to Open Shell. You might search for
Open Shell which will take you to GitHub. There have been some updates.
--
<Bill>

Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska

On 03/02/2022 17:45, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 3 Feb 2022 15:26:46 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Robbie Hatley <see.my.signature@for.my.contact.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2/2/22 08:11, "Ken Blake" wrote the following false statement in
>>> newsgroup alt.comp.os.windows-10 :
>>>
>>>> It's absolute bullshit [to think that giving programs from unknown
>>>> sources complete control over one's operating system is dangerous].
>>>
>>> I cannot, in good conscience, allow this falsehood to go unchallenged.
>>
>> Get off you high horse!
>>
>> First of all, Ken did not say what you imply (i.e. no quote) he said.
>> Don't put words in people's mouths.
>>
>> Secondly, the discussion was *not* about "programs from unknown
>> sources", but from (very well) *known* sources. That *you* apparently
>> don't know what Start11 and Startallback are, is your problem, not the
>> group's.
>>
>> You're clearly new here. That's fine. But there's no place for your
>> insinuations and insults.
>
>
> Thanks for the support. I'll give him a few more days, but he'll
> probably end up my killfile soon.

He's already in my killfile!

Fokke

On 03/02/2022 17:55, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>> On 02/02/2022 18:33, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>> On 02/02/2022 17:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:54:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are right. But I would like to start with Start11, as it has a
>>>> trial period, I read. Startallback, I don't know.
>>>> But:
>>>> I used Classic Shell, and running it now, the same W7 start menu
>>>> comes back! And turning icons on the task bar at the left side,
>>>> does it alsmost look like W10!
>>>>
>>>> But I'm gonna try Start11. I'm curious.
>>>>
>>>> Fokke
>>>
>>> I assume by Classic Shell you mean what is now Open Shell. I use it
>>> with Windows 10 on 3 computers with the W7 options. I am glad to
>>> hear it still works well because in 2025 I will have no choice but
>>> to move to W11. People think differently so how one person wants
>>> their computer organized does not fit with the way another does. That is
>>> why they are called personal computers. Neither person is
>>> wrong.
>>
>> I don't know Open Shell but use Classic Shell. Has the old W7 start
>> menu. And I have installed Start11, for the finishing touch.
>> I'm happy with it.
>>
>> Fokke
>
> Classic Shell developement has changed to Open Shell. You might search for
> Open Shell which will take you to GitHub. There have been some updates.

Thanks. I'm getting curious. Will have a look at Open Shell.

Fokke

On 03/02/2022 18:00, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 03/02/2022 17:55, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>> On 02/02/2022 18:33, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>>>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>>> On 02/02/2022 17:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:54:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are right. But I would like to start with Start11, as it has a
>>>>> trial period, I read. Startallback, I don't know.
>>>>> But:
>>>>> I used Classic Shell, and running it now, the same W7 start menu
>>>>> comes back! And turning icons on the task bar at the left side,
>>>>> does it alsmost look like W10!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I'm gonna try Start11. I'm curious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fokke
>>>>
>>>> I assume by Classic Shell you mean what is now Open Shell.  I use it
>>>> with Windows 10 on 3 computers with the W7 options.  I am glad to
>>>> hear it still works well because in 2025 I will have no choice but
>>>> to move to W11.  People think differently so how one person wants
>>>> their computer organized does not fit with the way another does.
>>>> That is
>>>> why they are called personal computers.  Neither person is
>>>> wrong.
>>>
>>> I don't know Open Shell but use Classic Shell. Has the old W7 start
>>> menu. And I have installed Start11, for the finishing touch.
>>> I'm happy with it.
>>>
>>> Fokke
>>
>> Classic Shell developement has changed to Open Shell.  You might
>> search for
>> Open Shell which will take you to GitHub.  There have been some updates.
>
> Thanks. I'm getting curious. Will have a look at Open Shell.
>
> Fokke

I did. However, I prefer Classic Shell.

Fokke

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 22:03:24 -0500, ...w�񧱤n <winstonmvp@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:12:39 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/02/2022 17:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 14:11:19 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/02/2022 13:51, Robbie Hatley wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 3:54 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have two new laptops running W10 x64 Pro. Both are ready to update
>>>>>>>> to W11. Which is what I am going to do.
>>>>>>>> I understood that there are two applications to make W11 look like
>>>>>>>> w10: Start11_setup.exe and StartAllBack_3.2.1_setup.exe. Which one is
>>>>>>>> the best? Or is there anything else?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks beforehand for your answers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fokke
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are file names, not names of programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The names of the programs are Start11 and Startallback, which is clear
>>>>>> when you look at the executables.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or even if you just look at the name "Start11_setup.exe and
>>>>> StartAllBack_3.2.1_setup.exe."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the names of those
>>>>>>> two programs? Who wrote those programs? And why did they write them?
>>>>>>> You need to answer THOSE questions FIRST before considering running
>>>>>>> programs that will severely alter your operating system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frankly, unless the author is Microsoft, I strongly recommend NOT running
>>>>>>> such software, because such software is usually created for nefarious
>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's absolute bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <G> You said the same thing I did, but you said it more strongly. Yes,
>>>>> I agree with you. It's absolute bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may be full of adware, spyware, or viruses. If you allow
>>>>>>> such software to corrupt your system, you may find that the only way to
>>>>>>> repair the damage will be to format your SSD or HD and reinstall Windows
>>>>>>> from scratch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would you want Windows 11 to look like Windows 10 anyway?
>>>>>>> "Look like" in what way? And, if you like the look of Windows 10,
>>>>>>> why not just keep using Windows 10?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because W10 is no longer supported in 2025.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But I disagree with that. It doesn't matter. "No longer supported"
>>>>> means it no longer gets updates. It does *not* mean you can no longer
>>>>> run it.
>>>>
>>>> That's true. But updates are really important to keep your system safe.
>>>> And if you don't receive updates anymore, the system may become vulnerable.
>>>
>>>
>>> As long as you run good third-party security software that's kept up
>>> to date, it doesn't matter.
>>>
>> Not always true since no updates indicates the built in security and
>> patches are no longer include current protection thus relying on a later
>> point in time indicator/monitor(3rd party software) to prevent
>> vulnerability intrusion including it's lag time to release and update its
>> defs.
>> - Additional but very minor risk, but it does negate the 'it doesn't
>> matter' condition.
>
>
> OK, I'll amend what I said to "it almost doesn't matter." For almost
> everyone, it's close enough to "it doesn't matter."
>

For the most part, ff you aren't running a secret squirrel operation
(sensitive government facility, certificate authority, really large bank,
critical infrastructure such as water treatment, etc.), it would be
incredibly unlikely your environment would get compromised, but a fair
amount of the 'for most everyone' population is the
click-on-anything-happy great unwashed where it always matters.
Where it doesn't matter is more akin to the o/s that are still being
security updated.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 18:00:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
wrote:

>On 03/02/2022 17:55, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>> On 02/02/2022 18:33, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>>>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>>> On 02/02/2022 17:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:54:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are right. But I would like to start with Start11, as it has a
>>>>> trial period, I read. Startallback, I don't know.
>>>>> But:
>>>>> I used Classic Shell, and running it now, the same W7 start menu
>>>>> comes back! And turning icons on the task bar at the left side,
>>>>> does it alsmost look like W10!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I'm gonna try Start11. I'm curious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fokke
>>>>
>>>> I assume by Classic Shell you mean what is now Open Shell. I use it
>>>> with Windows 10 on 3 computers with the W7 options. I am glad to
>>>> hear it still works well because in 2025 I will have no choice but
>>>> to move to W11. People think differently so how one person wants
>>>> their computer organized does not fit with the way another does. That is
>>>> why they are called personal computers. Neither person is
>>>> wrong.
>>>
>>> I don't know Open Shell but use Classic Shell. Has the old W7 start
>>> menu. And I have installed Start11, for the finishing touch.
>>> I'm happy with it.
>>>
>>> Fokke
>>
>> Classic Shell developement has changed to Open Shell. You might search for
>> Open Shell which will take you to GitHub. There have been some updates.
>
>Thanks. I'm getting curious. Will have a look at Open Shell.

Looking at it certainly doesn't hurt, but...

....as far as I'm concerned, Classic Shell/Open Shell is good, but
Start11 is a much better choice and it's well worth its very low price
($4.99)

On 03/02/2022 19:48, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 18:00:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/02/2022 17:55, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>> On 02/02/2022 18:33, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>>>>> Fokke Nauta wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/02/2022 17:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:54:28 +0100, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are right. But I would like to start with Start11, as it has a
>>>>>> trial period, I read. Startallback, I don't know.
>>>>>> But:
>>>>>> I used Classic Shell, and running it now, the same W7 start menu
>>>>>> comes back! And turning icons on the task bar at the left side,
>>>>>> does it alsmost look like W10!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I'm gonna try Start11. I'm curious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fokke
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume by Classic Shell you mean what is now Open Shell. I use it
>>>>> with Windows 10 on 3 computers with the W7 options. I am glad to
>>>>> hear it still works well because in 2025 I will have no choice but
>>>>> to move to W11. People think differently so how one person wants
>>>>> their computer organized does not fit with the way another does. That is
>>>>> why they are called personal computers. Neither person is
>>>>> wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know Open Shell but use Classic Shell. Has the old W7 start
>>>> menu. And I have installed Start11, for the finishing touch.
>>>> I'm happy with it.
>>>>
>>>> Fokke
>>>
>>> Classic Shell developement has changed to Open Shell. You might search for
>>> Open Shell which will take you to GitHub. There have been some updates.
>>
>> Thanks. I'm getting curious. Will have a look at Open Shell.
>
>
> Looking at it certainly doesn't hurt, but...
>
> ...as far as I'm concerned, Classic Shell/Open Shell is good, but
> Start11 is a much better choice and it's well worth its very low price
> ($4.99)

I use both.
It's a good combination and, indeed, Start11 is cheap.

Fokke