(Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)

Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
use of this process would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
S---L---O---W!

I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.

However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
computer. This may be of use to others.

Start Task Manager.

Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.

At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
Click on this.

This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
speed is also back to normal.

Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.

-dan z-

ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
single-click reset would be nice!

--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887
(use cut and paste to your browser if necessary)

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

slate_leeper wrote:

> Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file?
pskill.exe dwm.exe

<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/pskill>

On 02.02.22 16:48, slate_leeper wrote:
> (Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)
>
> Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
> excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
> hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
> climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
> use of this process would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
> S---L---O---W!
>
> I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
> searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.
>
> However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
> computer. This may be of use to others.
>
> Start Task Manager.
>
> Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
> Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.
>
> At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
> Click on this.
>
> This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
> unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
> shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
> running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
> does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
> returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
> Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
> speed is also back to normal.
>
> Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.
>
>
> -dan z-
>
> ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
> single-click reset would be nice!
>
>
>
>
Yes. shutdown instead of sleep/hibernate.

On 2/2/2022 10:48 AM, slate_leeper wrote:
> (Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)
>
> Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
> excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
> hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
> climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
> use of this process would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
> S---L---O---W!
>
> I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
> searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.
>
> However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
> computer. This may be of use to others.
>
> Start Task Manager.
>
> Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
> Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.
>
> At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
> Click on this.
>
> This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
> unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
> shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
> running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
> does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
> returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
> Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
> speed is also back to normal.
>
> Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.
>
>
> -dan z-
>
> ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
> single-click reset would be nice!

At a guess, this suggests that some browser is asking DWM for
memory, and this is actually a runaway browser behavior. I
would try killing MSEdge (ChromEdge) and see if it drops.

And DWM is not "malloc". It is not a distributor of RAM. But it
may do things like composite, and the opening of windows may
require a handle, and management of things composited. Perhaps
that is how other programs can "burrow into" DWM and wreak havok.

I observed a garbage collector behavior long ago, by loading
a very large PDF (26000 pages) into the original MSEdge. But
we can't do that today for testing, because the original MSEdge has been
replaced by ChromEdge.

Paul

On 2/2/2022 10:51 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> slate_leeper wrote:
>
>> Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file?
> pskill.exe dwm.exe
>
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/pskill>

TASKKILL ?

slate_leeper wrote:

> (Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)
>
> Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
> excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
> hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
> climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
> use of this process would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
> S---L---O---W!
>
> I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
> searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.
>
> However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
> computer. This may be of use to others.
>
> Start Task Manager.
>
> Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
> Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.
>
> At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
> Click on this.
>
> This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
> unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
> shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
> running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
> does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
> returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
> Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
> speed is also back to normal.
>
> Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.
>
> -dan z-
>
> ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
> single-click reset would be nice!

explorer.exe is both the file manager and the desktop manager. Have you
tried killing all instances of explorer.exe, and reload one instance, to
see if memory consumption is changed for dwm.exe?

- Open Task Manager.
- Use it to kill all instances of explorer.exe.
- Desktop disappears.
- Use Task Manager's File -> New task menu to run explorer.exe.
- Desktop reappears.

To do the same in a batch file:

@echo off
taskkill.exe /im explorer.exe /f
start explorer.exe
exit

If restarting explorer.exe does not affect the memory footprint of
dwm.exe, substitute dwm.exe in the above suggestions. Whichever works
can have you use the .bat file in a Task Scheduler event to run at
whatever intervals you want for when you want, like at 2AM after being
idle for an hour.

On 2/3/2022 4:52 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> slate_leeper wrote:
>
>> (Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)
>>
>> Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
>> excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
>> hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
>> climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
>> use of this process would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
>> S---L---O---W!
>>
>> I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
>> searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.
>>
>> However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
>> computer. This may be of use to others.
>>
>> Start Task Manager.
>>
>> Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
>> Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.
>>
>> At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
>> Click on this.
>>
>> This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
>> unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
>> shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
>> running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
>> does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
>> returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
>> Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
>> speed is also back to normal.
>>
>> Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.
>>
>> -dan z-
>>
>> ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
>> single-click reset would be nice!
>
> explorer.exe is both the file manager and the desktop manager. Have you
> tried killing all instances of explorer.exe, and reload one instance, to
> see if memory consumption is changed for dwm.exe?
>
> - Open Task Manager.
> - Use it to kill all instances of explorer.exe.
> - Desktop disappears.
> - Use Task Manager's File -> New task menu to run explorer.exe.
> - Desktop reappears.
>
> To do the same in a batch file:
>
> @echo off
> taskkill.exe /im explorer.exe /f
> start explorer.exe
> exit
>
> If restarting explorer.exe does not affect the memory footprint of
> dwm.exe, substitute dwm.exe in the above suggestions. Whichever works
> can have you use the .bat file in a Task Scheduler event to run at
> whatever intervals you want for when you want, like at 2AM after being
> idle for an hour.
>

DWM is covered here. But generally, for every OS that does compositing
(which is three ecosystems), usually 64MB to 128MB is sufficient for
trivial user environments. What I do here, would never put a dent into
128MB of compositing memory. The issue of excess memory should not
be traceable to the compositing function (Z-axis window priority and overlap).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager

But it's possible other functions draw memory from DWM, as
part of some accelerated function. And DWM may have a
garbage collector function to recover that memory.
And whatever the old MSEdge was doing in the past,
the garbage collector would wait until the very last
minute, to recover memory. (Which is not my favorite
policy for functions similar to that - I like to see
them trigger at 50% system used, as they're a lot
safer and stable that way.)

Paul

Paul

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 15:51:45 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>slate_leeper wrote:
>
>> Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file?
>pskill.exe dwm.exe
>
><https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/pskill>

Thanks, but it didn't work. When executed it blacked the screen for a
moment just as "End Task" in Task Manager did. However after the
screen restored, the Desktop Window Manager task was still using the
same amount of memory instead of resetting.

-dan z-

--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887
(use cut and paste to your browser if necessary)

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On 2/2/2022 12:39 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 2/2/2022 10:48 AM, slate_leeper wrote:
>> (Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)
>>
>> Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
>> excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
>> hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
>> climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
>> use of this process  would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
>> S---L---O---W!
>>
>> I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
>> searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.
>>
>> However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
>> computer. This may be of use to others.
>>
>> Start Task Manager.
>>
>> Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
>> Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.
>>
>> At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
>> Click on this.
>>
>> This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
>> unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
>> shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
>> running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
>> does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
>> returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
>> Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
>> speed is also back to normal.
>>
>> Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.
>>
>>
>> -dan z-
>>
>> ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
>> single-click reset would be nice!
>
> At a guess, this suggests that some browser is asking DWM for
> memory

Here is another example. This is early Windows 10,
and it looks like it might be specific applications
that bother DWM.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/desktop-window-manager-dwmexe-memory-problems/5d7d7a88-be9c-4951-a329-2f9859922dd3?page=2

Paul

slate_leeper wrote:

> (Win10-21H1 Build 19043.1415, 64-bit)
>
> Back in November I posted about Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) using
> excessive memory. Task manager would show it between 30-60mb for
> hours, but eventually it would start climbing by itself. The rate of
> climb would grow increasingly greater. Often within a day, the memory
> use of this process would be over 1 gigabyte and system response was
> S---L---O---W!
>
> I received some suggestions on this, and found some others with web
> searches. None have actually stopped this from occurring.
>
> However I did find a way to reset it without having to reboot the
> computer. This may be of use to others.
>
> Start Task Manager.
>
> Locate in Windows Processes the Desktop Window Manager.
> Click on it to highlight. Be SURE this is the process highlighted.
>
> At the bottom of the Task Manger window is a box labeled End Task.
> Click on this.
>
> This will result in another box with dire warnings about "become
> unstable or shut down." Click the box for "Abandon unsaved data and
> shut down." This does NOT shut down the computer or halt any other
> running processes. No data is lost. No open windows are closed. What
> does happen is that the screen goes black for about a second, and then
> returns with all items exactly as before. With one exception: Desktop
> Window Manager is again showing memory usage near 35 megabytes. System
> speed is also back to normal.
>
> Repeat as necessary - every one to two days for me.
>
> -dan z-
>
> ps: Any chance this routine could be automated with a batch file? A
> single-click reset would be nice!

Don't know which video chip/card you are using. Maybe you're using
onboard video, and maybe it's in an Intel CPU.

There were versions of the Intel video driver that caused a memory leak
in dwm.exe. The latest video driver isn't always the best driver, plus
there's no point to update unless you are incurring problems with the
video driver, or the new driver actually has some new features you
really use. New code = new bugs. Even if you have the latest driver,
you might trying older drivers. I had to bounce around video drivers
trying to find the version that worked best with my ancient and new
video games.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000058381/graphics/graphics-for-8th-generation-intel-processors.html

Also, make sure hardware driver updates are DISABLED in Windows 10. You
don't want Microsoft doing brain transplants to destabilize your
computer. Also, if you installed the Intel updater, disable it, or
uninstall it.

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 10:01:12 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>> At a guess, this suggests that some browser is asking DWM for
>> memory
>
>Here is another example. This is early Windows 10,
>and it looks like it might be specific applications
>that bother DWM.
>
>https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/desktop-window-manager-dwmexe-memory-problems/5d7d7a88-be9c-4951-a329-2f9859922dd3?page=2
>
> Paul

I think you are probably correct. This morning memory usage was at
37.2mb. I opened Firefox, went to four websites and also to the
settings page. After closing Firefox, memory was up to 173mb and
steadily climbing even though Firefox was no longer running.

-dan z-

--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887
(use cut and paste to your browser if necessary)

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:32:33 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Also, make sure hardware driver updates are DISABLED in Windows 10. You
>don't want Microsoft doing brain transplants to destabilize your
>computer. Also, if you installed the Intel updater, disable it, or
>uninstall it.

Yup, did all that long ago. I only updated the video card driver
because Microsoft suggested it for the dwm.exe problem.

-dan z-

--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887
(use cut and paste to your browser if necessary)

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:25:13, slate_leeper <lcgh-edlf@xemaps.com>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 10:01:12 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> At a guess, this suggests that some browser is asking DWM for
>>> memory
>>
>>Here is another example. This is early Windows 10,
>>and it looks like it might be specific applications
>>that bother DWM.
[]
>> Paul
>
>
>I think you are probably correct. This morning memory usage was at
>37.2mb. I opened Firefox, went to four websites and also to the
>settings page. After closing Firefox, memory was up to 173mb and
>steadily climbing even though Firefox was no longer running.
[]
How long did you wait after closing Firefox? On this admittedly limited
machine, when I close my admittedly even older Firefox, it can take well
over a minute - possibly more than two - before the memory usage shown
by task manager drops.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
- Oscar Wilde, quoted by Ron Bauerle 2015-7-24

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 16:58:28 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:25:13, slate_leeper <lcgh-edlf@xemaps.com>
>wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 10:01:12 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> At a guess, this suggests that some browser is asking DWM for
>>>> memory
>>>
>>>Here is another example. This is early Windows 10,
>>>and it looks like it might be specific applications
>>>that bother DWM.
>[]
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>>I think you are probably correct. This morning memory usage was at
>>37.2mb. I opened Firefox, went to four websites and also to the
>>settings page. After closing Firefox, memory was up to 173mb and
>>steadily climbing even though Firefox was no longer running.
>[]
>How long did you wait after closing Firefox? On this admittedly limited
>machine, when I close my admittedly even older Firefox, it can take well
>over a minute - possibly more than two - before the memory usage shown
>by task manager drops.

It's the "steadily climbing" part that counts. Once that starts, it
just keeps going at an accelerating rate no matter what. I've seen it
go well over 1 Gb. This is with no programs running other than Task
Manager for monitoring the problem.

--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887
(use cut and paste to your browser if necessary)

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On 2/6/2022 8:31 AM, slate_leeper wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 16:58:28 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:25:13, slate_leeper <lcgh-edlf@xemaps.com>
>> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>> On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 10:01:12 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> At a guess, this suggests that some browser is asking DWM for
>>>>> memory
>>>>
>>>> Here is another example. This is early Windows 10,
>>>> and it looks like it might be specific applications
>>>> that bother DWM.
>> []
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you are probably correct. This morning memory usage was at
>>> 37.2mb. I opened Firefox, went to four websites and also to the
>>> settings page. After closing Firefox, memory was up to 173mb and
>>> steadily climbing even though Firefox was no longer running.
>> []
>> How long did you wait after closing Firefox? On this admittedly limited
>> machine, when I close my admittedly even older Firefox, it can take well
>> over a minute - possibly more than two - before the memory usage shown
>> by task manager drops.
>
>
> It's the "steadily climbing" part that counts. Once that starts, it
> just keeps going at an accelerating rate no matter what. I've seen it
> go well over 1 Gb. This is with no programs running other than Task
> Manager for monitoring the problem.

But we've seen this sort of "balloon" behavior in web browsers.
Driven by some sort of out-of-control advertising code. I think
it may be that animation bar that appears on every web site down
at the bottom of the screen. You've probably seen how every
web site is switching to that lucrative source of income.

That's the only recent development that has such a "it was OK
and then it went nuts" behavior. It's like the code involved
is in a nested loop on purpose, doing "reloads" to enhance
income and pretend the user has "seen this advert... a thousand times" :-\

I doubt the memory garbage collector in DWM is actually
defective. But something that is asking for resources
from DWM, has a definite defective behavior.

Paul