This is my theory: That leaving the PC one when you weren't using it
kept the HDD spinning and spinning alone might make it wear out and lose
all the data that is on it.

But if your laptop or PC has an SSD with nothing to spin, all you lose
or waste is a little bit of electricity, maybe, just guessing** 40
watts. If you blank the screen, it's maybe 30 watts. Which if you are
in a cold room, as I am this week, helps to heat your room.

Since the CPU is at 96^F (and it's a small little thing) and
the storage is at 79^F (and it's not very big either) and
the power supply brick is just barely warm to the touch and everything
else is closer to room temperature, I'm not making much heat either.

So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.

Is it good for the LEDs to blank the screen when I'm sleeping?

**I have a gizmo at home to measure this directly, and I'll do it after
the trip.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> This is my theory: That leaving the PC one when you weren't using it
> kept the HDD spinning and spinning alone might make it wear out and lose
> all the data that is on it.

This is why HDDs always went to sleep when idle.

> But if your laptop or PC has an SSD with nothing to spin, all you lose
> or waste is a little bit of electricity, maybe, just guessing** 40
> watts. If you blank the screen, it's maybe 30 watts. Which if you are
> in a cold room, as I am this week, helps to heat your room.
>
> Since the CPU is at 96^F (and it's a small little thing) and
> the storage is at 79^F (and it's not very big either) and
> the power supply brick is just barely warm to the touch and everything
> else is closer to room temperature, I'm not making much heat either.
>
> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.

Correct. I never switch off my laptop. Just close the lid and leave it
until next time.

On 2/17/2022 1:11 AM, micky wrote:
> This is my theory: That leaving the PC one when you weren't using it
> kept the HDD spinning and spinning alone might make it wear out and lose
> all the data that is on it.
>
> But if your laptop or PC has an SSD with nothing to spin, all you lose
> or waste is a little bit of electricity, maybe, just guessing** 40
> watts. If you blank the screen, it's maybe 30 watts. Which if you are
> in a cold room, as I am this week, helps to heat your room.
>
> Since the CPU is at 96^F (and it's a small little thing) and
> the storage is at 79^F (and it's not very big either) and
> the power supply brick is just barely warm to the touch and everything
> else is closer to room temperature, I'm not making much heat either.
>
> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.
>
> Is it good for the LEDs to blank the screen when I'm sleeping?
>
>
> **I have a gizmo at home to measure this directly, and I'll do it after
> the trip.
>

The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.

If you boot a Win10 machine with the network cable disconnected,
it cuts the power consumption in half. That's before it enters
some altered state of consciousness. That refers to the "active"
power, and the doubling is caused by Windows Update and Search
Indexer and Windows Defender scanner.

And while you might think "surely it runs out of things to do",
no, late at night it forks off maintenance scripts. Cleaning
a temp directory, oiling a hinge and so on. The staff at
Microsoft had to work hard, to make up stuff to do.
Pillow fluffing stuff. Putting doilies on the coffee table.

The most egregious part of the maintenance scripts, is the
tendency for them to be run right in the middle of one
of your benchmark runs. It the machine detects you getting
useful work done, you hear in a squeaky voice "I'll show you!".

Paul

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
[...]

> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.

Indeed there isn't. So I let it sleep, by time out (Power Options) or
manually, and occasionally hibernate.

And don't keep it (too long) on the charger when the batteries are
full.

> Is it good for the LEDs to blank the screen when I'm sleeping?

I think so, and also at other non-use times. Just set the display
time-outs in Power Options.

On 2022-02-17 07:11, micky wrote:
> This is my theory: That leaving the PC one when you weren't using it
> kept the HDD spinning and spinning alone might make it wear out and lose
> all the data that is on it.
>
> But if your laptop or PC has an SSD with nothing to spin, all you lose
> or waste is a little bit of electricity, maybe, just guessing** 40
> watts. If you blank the screen, it's maybe 30 watts. Which if you are
> in a cold room, as I am this week, helps to heat your room.
>
> Since the CPU is at 96^F (and it's a small little thing) and
> the storage is at 79^F (and it's not very big either) and
> the power supply brick is just barely warm to the touch and everything
> else is closer to room temperature, I'm not making much heat either.
>
> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.

Electricity is expensive here.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Paul wrote:

> The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.

I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
(AFAIK)

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> And don't keep it (too long) on the charger

One problem with the handful of HP stream laptops I received is that the
batteries aren't easily removable (AFICT).

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-02-17 07:11, micky wrote:
> > This is my theory: That leaving the PC one when you weren't using it
> > kept the HDD spinning and spinning alone might make it wear out and lose
> > all the data that is on it.
> >
> > But if your laptop or PC has an SSD with nothing to spin, all you lose
> > or waste is a little bit of electricity, maybe, just guessing** 40
> > watts. If you blank the screen, it's maybe 30 watts. Which if you are
> > in a cold room, as I am this week, helps to heat your room.
> >
> > Since the CPU is at 96^F (and it's a small little thing) and
> > the storage is at 79^F (and it's not very big either) and
> > the power supply brick is just barely warm to the touch and everything
> > else is closer to room temperature, I'm not making much heat either.
> >
> > So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.

> Electricity is expensive here.

Where and how much? I'm glad I am not computer gaming, compiling, mining, etc.
--
Rams' celebration wasn't even in LA Coliseum on slammy humpy day. Early summer is gone, and winter came back with hails, lightnings, etc. yesterday. Dang old bodies. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> Paul wrote:

> > The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.

> I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
> (AFAIK)

Did they all break down/die because of lack of cooling or something?
--
Rams' celebration wasn't even in LA Coliseum on slammy humpy day. Early summer is gone, and winter came back with hails, lightnings, etc. yesterday. Dang old bodies. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>
>>> The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.
>
>> I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
>> (AFAIK)
>
> Did they all break down/die because of lack of cooling or something?

New Macbook Airs have no fans.

On 2/17/22 05:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.
>
> Indeed there isn't. So I let it sleep, by time out (Power Options) or
> manually, and occasionally hibernate.
>
> And don't keep it (too long) on the charger when the batteries are
> full.

Is that really a problem with lithium batteries? It was with NiCd, but
AFAIK all lithium chargers turn off when the battery is fully charged.

>> Is it good for the LEDs to blank the screen when I'm sleeping?
>
> I think so, and also at other non-use times. Just set the display
> time-outs in Power Options.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer." - -
anonymous

On 2/17/2022 1:53 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 2/17/22 05:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.
>>
>>    Indeed there isn't. So I let it sleep, by time out (Power Options) or
>> manually, and occasionally hibernate.
>>
>>    And don't keep it (too long) on the charger when the batteries are
>> full.
>
> Is that really a problem with lithium batteries? It was with NiCd, but
> AFAIK all lithium chargers turn off when the battery is fully charged.
>
>>> Is it good for the LEDs to blank the screen when I'm sleeping?
>>
>>    I think so, and also at other non-use times. Just set the display
>> time-outs in Power Options.
>
>
Turning any computer off is the best defense against unwanted hacking of
your computer.
A turned off computer is a safe computer

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:12:32 -0500, knuttle
<keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/17/2022 1:53 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
>> On 2/17/22 05:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.
>>>
>>>    Indeed there isn't. So I let it sleep, by time out (Power Options) or
>>> manually, and occasionally hibernate.
>>>
>>>    And don't keep it (too long) on the charger when the batteries are
>>> full.
>>
>> Is that really a problem with lithium batteries? It was with NiCd, but
>> AFAIK all lithium chargers turn off when the battery is fully charged.
>>
>>>> Is it good for the LEDs to blank the screen when I'm sleeping?
>>>
>>>    I think so, and also at other non-use times. Just set the display
>>> time-outs in Power Options.
>>
>>
>Turning any computer off is the best defense against unwanted hacking of
>your computer.

I don't agree.

>A turned off computer is a safe computer

Yes, of course, but if you turn it back on again later, that safety is
gone. As far as I'm concerned, having it off only some of the time is
almost no defense at all.

On 2/17/2022 1:35 PM, Chris wrote:
> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>>> The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.
>>
>>> I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
>>> (AFAIK)
>>
>> Did they all break down/die because of lack of cooling or something?
>
> New Macbook Airs have no fans.
>

You can do tablets without a fan.

Some Intel processors have a 2 watt SDP (scenario design power),
and they make the back plate of the tablet warm. The tablet may be
gutless, but cool. And that's the tradeoff - crank down the power,
expect a performance penalty.

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 1:35 PM, Chris wrote:
>> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>>> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.
>>>
>>>> I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
>>>> (AFAIK)
>>>
>>> Did they all break down/die because of lack of cooling or something?
>>
>> New Macbook Airs have no fans.
>>
>
> You can do tablets without a fan.
>
> Some Intel processors have a 2 watt SDP (scenario design power),
> and they make the back plate of the tablet warm. The tablet may be
> gutless, but cool. And that's the tradeoff - crank down the power,
> expect a performance penalty.

Not with Apple Silicon processors. Equivalent to i7 performance yet as
little as 7 watts.

On 2022-02-17 19:27, Ant wrote:
> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>
>>> The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.
>
>> I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
>> (AFAIK)
>
> Did they all break down/die because of lack of cooling or something?

I don't know about those HP, but I have a fanless Lenovo and I have
operated with others. They simply downclock the CPU as they pick up heat.

If I do some intensive and long operation, the fast CPU sprints, for
maybe a minute, then it slows down.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2022-02-17 19:01, Ant wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-02-17 07:11, micky wrote:
>>> This is my theory: That leaving the PC one when you weren't using it
>>> kept the HDD spinning and spinning alone might make it wear out and lose
>>> all the data that is on it.
>>>
>>> But if your laptop or PC has an SSD with nothing to spin, all you lose
>>> or waste is a little bit of electricity, maybe, just guessing** 40
>>> watts. If you blank the screen, it's maybe 30 watts. Which if you are
>>> in a cold room, as I am this week, helps to heat your room.
>>>
>>> Since the CPU is at 96^F (and it's a small little thing) and
>>> the storage is at 79^F (and it's not very big either) and
>>> the power supply brick is just barely warm to the touch and everything
>>> else is closer to room temperature, I'm not making much heat either.
>>>
>>> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.
>
>> Electricity is expensive here.
>
> Where and how much? I'm glad I am not computer gaming, compiling, mining, etc.

Spain.

Keeping a 7 watt lamp on for 8 hours a day, is about half an euro per month.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Ant wrote:
>
>> Where and how much?
>
> Spain.
>
> Keeping a 7 watt lamp on for 8 hours a day, is about half an euro per month.

UK.

Keeping a 6 watt lamp on for 7 hours a day, is about a third of a pound per month.

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Fri, 18 Feb 2022 12:31:37 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <suo3j9$dkh$1@dont-email.me>.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

0uRkwf9mCa4N

On 2/18/2022 4:51 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Ant wrote:
>>
>>> Where and how much?
>>
>> Spain.
>>
>> Keeping a 7 watt lamp on for 8 hours a day, is about half an euro per month.
>
> UK.
>
> Keeping a 6 watt lamp on for 7 hours a day, is about a third of a pound per month.

Off-Peak (Weekdays 7 p.m. – 7 a.m., all day weekends and holidays) 8.2 ¢/kWh <=== mostly this time-of-day
Mid-Peak (Weekdays 11 a.m. – 5 p.m.) 11.3 ¢/kWh
On-Peak (Weekdays 7 a.m. – 11 a.m. and 5 p.m. – 7 p.m.) 17.0 ¢/kWh

30 days x 42 Watt*hrs per day = 1260 wh = 1.26kWh * 0.082 CDN per kWh = $0.10

1 CDN = 0.58 pounds, $0.10 equals 0.058 pounds.

There's got to be something wrong with that.

Paul

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Fri, 18 Feb 2022 13:00:03 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <suo58i$sts$3@dont-email.me>.

nnDVqYv+LvP/

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
> On 2/17/22 05:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> So there's next to no reason to turn off the laptop.
> >
> > Indeed there isn't. So I let it sleep, by time out (Power Options) or
> > manually, and occasionally hibernate.
> >
> > And don't keep it (too long) on the charger when the batteries are
> > full.
>
> Is that really a problem with lithium batteries? It was with NiCd, but
> AFAIK all lithium chargers turn off when the battery is fully charged.

Yes, it is really a problem, because it decreases the life span of the
batteries. The problem is *sitting* at 100% charged. That the charging
itself stops is nice, but doesn't solve the 'sitting at 100% charged'
problem.

It's best to cycle Li-ion batteries between 10 and 90% and even better
20 to 80%.

Guess why EVs (Electic Vehicles) aren't charged to 100% (unless
neccessary and overriden)?

If you want to know more about this, then eat your heart out reading
this *and other* pages at Battery University:

'BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries'
<https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries>

For example, look at the 'Discharge cycles' versus the 'Depth of
Discharge' in Table 1.

[...]

Paul wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Keeping a 6 watt lamp on for 7 hours a day, is about a third of a pound per
>> month.

The only reason I quoted it in such a weird way was because I happened to have
worked out the hourly cost of a 6 watt LED at 1/7th of a penny per hour for a
conversation elsewhere.
> 30 days x 42 Watt*hrs per day = 1260 wh = 1.26kWh * 0.082 CDN per kWh = $0.10
> 1 CDN = 0.58 pounds, $0.10 equals 0.058 pounds.

30 days * 6 watts * 7 hours = 1260 Wh
1.26 kWh * GBP 0.2763 = 34.8 pence

> There's got to be something wrong with that.

Don't think so [other than us having shutdown almost all coal, not built enough
nukes and not developed onshore gas fracking or offshore gas fields]

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> And don't keep it (too long) on the charger when the batteries are
>>> full.
>>
>> Is that really a problem with lithium batteries? It was with NiCd, but
>> AFAIK all lithium chargers turn off when the battery is fully charged.
>
> Yes, it is really a problem, because it decreases the life span of the
> batteries.

Is that a problem? I think a safe guess is that the usable lifespan
of a laptop, i.e. before it's outdated due to having gotten too slow
for new applications or having become incompatible with the newest
OS release, might be equal to or shorter than that of the battery.

> It's best to cycle Li-ion batteries between 10 and 90% and even better
> 20 to 80%.

In theory, yes. In practice it hardly happens. With exceptions:

> Guess why EVs (Electic Vehicles) aren't charged to 100% (unless
> neccessary and overriden)?

Guess why comparing a 100 Wh laptop battery with a 20 or 40 kWh
hv car battery is silly.

-p

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> > Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> Paul wrote:
> >
> >>> The cooling fan is the only mechanical part left.
> >
> >> I got a handful of free HP Stream laptops which don't even have a fan.
> >> (AFAIK)
> >
> > Did they all break down/die because of lack of cooling or something?
>
> New Macbook Airs have no fans.

<firmly_sitting_on_hands>! :-)