Java Jive wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>>> another aspect of it that may be more concerning is that you may lose some or
>>> all copyright once you put it in the cloud
>>
>> It's a private area of my google drive, not a public website like flickr, if I
>> create a shareable link to an individual photo, or a public folder, I believe
>> that would grant google rights to distribute those images, but not any rights
>> to my intellectual property.
>
> That means absolutely nothing, I'm afraid.  If Google already reads your
> supposedly private googlemail, as it does

Almost exclusively I use gmail for test messages, and previously for public
mailing lists, so they're welcome.

> very probably it scans your
> supposedly private cloud data too.

But you seem to have changed direction from cloud=bad due to it somehow giving
them copyright over my photos, to cloud=bad due to them scanning my stuff?

I certain they scan content, probably for pr0n and they've recently started
scanning for other types of content

<https://www.androidcentral.com/what-kinds-files-violate-google-drives-content-policies>

Actually this has caused them issues as they've been flagging single byte files
as infringing!

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/google-drive-flags-nearly-empty-files-for-copyright-infringement/>

> Did you ever actually read the T&C that you agreed to?

Yes. Over 10 years ago when I started using a smartphone, it was clear you that
to get full benefit from them, you do have to use cloud services, so rather than
pick and choose a dozen different services from multiple providers, I chose to
use one provider for as much as possible, and I've stuck to that.

There is one thing that google did annoy me with ... I setup a new google
account purely for the smartphone (and later my other android devices) separate
from my other google account ... at some point they did work out (presumably
from use of the same IP static addresses and perhaps location tracking?) that
both accounts were "me" and they have somehow linked the accounts.

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 09:45:15 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I just connect my camera to my computer and copy the pictures from the
>> auto-mounted file system. Why should there be any other way? :-)
>
>
> And I never do it that way. I put the card (or cards, one at a time,
> if there are several--which there often is if I've been away on
> vacation) into a card reader which I then plug into a USB port, and
> copy them from there.
>
Not much different than connecting the camera, since Windows reads the
data on the SDXC memory card, just an extra step with only one card but
with multiple cards inserting the card is more convenient.

Phone's are different(which was mickey's dissertation<g>).
- some phones have a memory card slot, other's don't.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2021

Char Jackson wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:15:21 -0600, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/17/22 09:36, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 09:45:15 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I just connect my camera to my computer and copy the pictures from the
>>>> auto-mounted file system. Why should there be any other way? :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> And I never do it that way. I put the card (or cards, one at a time,
>>> if there are several--which there often is if I've been away on
>>> vacation) into a card reader which I then plug into a USB port, and
>>> copy them from there.
>>
>> I do that. One reason is that it's usually easier (since I'd have to go
>> into another room for a suitable USB cable).
>
> Sometimes it's nice to have a second cable so that one can be kept near
> each computer.
>
>> If I plug one of my cameras into a Windows system, I get an annoying
>> prompt to install a driver. The driver is overcomplicated and hard to
>> use. On Linux, plugging the camera in works perfectly, it becomes
>> another drive.
>
> Can you dismiss the suggestion and proceed to use it as another drive,
> just as Linux does it? I don't have any cameras that give such a prompt
> so I can't test it myself. Currently, my cameras are smartphones, and
> they don't prompt me to do anything when I connect them to a PC.
>
Same here.
Neither digital camera prompts to install anything on W10/11. Windows
though initially prompted to import to Windows Photo app, but that
ceased to occur when I set Photo Gallery as the default app - which
provides a bit more flexibility on import location, selection of
pictures etc.

My iPhone though if used on one device in a Local Account and inserted
into another device on the same login name Local Account may prompt as a
new connected device with a request to 'Trust'.
- doing the same when logged in with the same MSA on any device does
not see the same prompt. Possibly because it's been connected before
and/or that each device is present in the online MSA's account 'Device'
list.

Unlike, the original post comment on linking the phone to the pc - the
phone is not linked in Settings/Phone.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2021

Andy Burns wrote:

> Yes. Over 10 years ago when I started using a smartphone, it was clear you that
> to get full benefit from them, you do have to use cloud services, so rather than
> pick and choose a dozen different services from multiple providers, I chose to
> use one provider for as much as possible, and I've stuck to that.

I admire that you made an intelligent decision, where it's not the point of
this thread to question the many good reasons to want to use cloud services,
but I would like to ask a relate aside, given I never use them myself...

What can you do with "cloud services" that you can't do at home without
them?

> There is one thing that google did annoy me with ... I setup a new google
> account purely for the smartphone (and later my other android devices) separate
> from my other google account ...

I'm sure Andy knows this, but an Android smartphone works just fine without
a Google Account set up on the Android smartphone. For almost every Google
app which _requires_ an account, there's a FOSS equivalent that doesn't.

Better yet, the FOSS equivalent is almost always (if not always) far better.
Examples?
<https://newpipe.net/> FOSS privacy YouTube client
<https://auroraoss.com/download/> FOSS privacy Google Play Store client
<https://www.malavida.com/en/soft/ungoogled-chromium/android/> Chromium
etc.

> at some point they did work out (presumably
> from use of the same IP static addresses and perhaps location tracking?) that
> both accounts were "me" and they have somehow linked the accounts.

I doubt it was location tracking, but if others are interested, Android
makes it trivial to spoof your location. There's a setting in the OS for it.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps>
--
The goal of every post should add unique value to the thread topic at hand.

nospam wrote:

> where it's located doesn't matter, and it's usually in multiple
> locations anyway, thereby eliminating any risk of natural disaster,
> making it *much* safer than a local copy.

As usual, nospam is wrong because he only considers the pros of cloud
storage and not the cons (which is an ailment all the iKooks suffer from).

Whether or not the pros outweigh the cons is up to the individual user.

In fact, in many ways the cloud is _much less safe_ than local storage.
(e.g., access to hackers, unilateral deletion, login issues, etc.)

>> They may SAY those pictures are always available, but that means nothing
>> when the company fails or discontinues the service.
>
> major cloud providers, such as google, microsoft, apple, amazon,
> facebook, etc., aren't about to fail or discontinue their offerings any
> time soon, so this is not a major worry, but if for some reason one of
> them were to shut down, they would give ample warning to download
> content beforehand.

Bear in mind that only Apple _forces_ users to log into their iCloud
accounts periodically (even if you don't _want_ to log into the iCloud!).

They do that likely to force you to agree to their changed agreements, but
the point is that Apple will _lock you out_ of your account unilaterally.

You'll never be able to access your iCloud files ever again.
Ask me how I know this... (see proof for 2 iPads in the sig before denying)

> also, the cloud should never be the *only* copy, nor should a local
> hard drive, which could also fail (and is far more likely to do so. in
> the unlikely event a cloud provider or hard drive suddenly fails or
> disappears, there will be other copies. no big deal. a hassle to be
> sure, but nothing will be lost.

BTW, the risk that Apple does to your data is huge in that Apple will
unilaterally lock you out of your own data, and nospam is well aware of
this, where he claims (he lies) all you have to do is log back in.

And yet, you can't.
Nobody knows a solution to this problem, but that is a different topic.

The point I'm making is the iCloud in particular, _requires_ periodic login
or Apple will permanently _lock_ up your account (ask me how I know this).

See proof in the sig (which iKooks deny exists, and yet... it does).
--
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg> Apple fails App Store test
<https://i.postimg.cc/TwN6P0QR/appleid08.jpg> Only Apple requires a login
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg> Apple tracking server login
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg> Apple _forces_ a lock out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!

Mark Lloyd wrote:

> On Linux, plugging the camera in works perfectly, it becomes
> another drive.

With Ubuntu, plugging in a camera or even another iPhone is what you say.
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMk7tvZW/files04.jpg> Ubuntu is two way, everything

Plugging in an iPhone is exactly like plugging in a dumb USB stick.
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqg61Rh8/files05.jpg> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB

You instantly get read _and_ write access to the entire iOS file system.
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2x0f9Js/files14.jpg> Simultaneous linux, win10 & iOS

Note with only two devices (iOS + Dual-boot Windows booted to Linux), you
get _simultaneous_ access to the entire visible file system of 3 devices!
a. Windows
b. Linux
c. iOS device
--
Every post to Usenet should strive to add value that others don't know.

Char Jackson wrote:

> Currently, my cameras are smartphones, and
> they don't prompt me to do anything when I connect them to a PC.

I believe that statement is incorrect in the main, although it may be
correct only for those, like Char Jackson, who may not own any iOS devices.

Almost everything about Android is modern, while iOS is always primitive.

The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into Linux,
but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them into Windows.

This screenshot was made for another purpose, so ignore the caption, but it
shows the prompt (I don't know any way to _not_ get it to ask EVERY time!).
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg> iOS always prompts every time
--
Every post to Usenet should clarify a point or add new useful information.

In article <sume74$26g$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into Linux,
> but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them into Windows.

they do not.

after a trust ticket is issued, there is no longer a need to ask again.

you are doing something unusual to prevent that from working properly.
no surprise there.

Char Jackson wrote:

>>And now someone else in controlling access to YOUR pictures.
>
> It's hard to look forward in time to see if that will ever become an
> issue, but we can look backward and see that it's not a serious concern.

All your iCloud data?
Poof.
Gone.

The problem, as I currently see it, is some unmentioned cloud providers
(whose trademarks often start with a lower-case i) will _force_ a periodic
login into the iCloud, and, if you refuse to do that, unilaterally lock up.

I have an entire thread on the Apple newsgroup on this (multiple threads,
actually, as I have _two_ iPads where Apple did this to me) where NOBODY
knows how to solve the problem.

Sure, the iKooks wave their hands and say "just log in" but the reality is
Apple locks you out after a while (admittedly, it has been two years).

My point is that the instant you put your "stuff" on the cloud, you lose it
(if the iCloud provider wants to do that to you, that is).

If you want to know _why_ Apple did that to me, I should let you know I
logged in only once about four years ago (because you must log into an
account for Apple to track you when you purchase a new device to make it
useful).

I never logged in ever again.

Two years go by, and Apple starts nagging me to log back in (presumably to
sign some new agreement or whatever - as Apple doesn't tell you why).

Two more years go by.
Now Apple won't even _let_ you log in any more.

All your iCloud data?
Poof.
Gone.

Note the iKooks claim there is a solution and yet, they can't name it.
--
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg> Apple _forces_ a lock out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg> Apple fails App Store test
<https://i.postimg.cc/TwN6P0QR/appleid08.jpg> Only Apple requires a login
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg> Apple tracking server login

In article <sumfvb$sck$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> The problem, as I currently see it, is some unmentioned cloud providers
> (whose trademarks often start with a lower-case i) will _force_ a periodic
> login into the iCloud, and, if you refuse to do that, unilaterally lock up.

they do not force a periodic login you got yourself into that situation.

of course, those who do use the cloud, no matter what provider, will
log into it and remain logged into it so that they can enjoy all of its
benefits.

> I have an entire thread on the Apple newsgroup on this (multiple threads,
> actually, as I have _two_ iPads where Apple did this to me) where NOBODY
> knows how to solve the problem.

yes they do know.

the solution is log in.

unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
email and have no idea what the password is either.

the problem is entirely of your own making.

nospam wrote:

> they do not force a periodic login you got yourself into that situation.

And yet, they do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg> Deleting Siri stuff works
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg> Even iOS updates work
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg> iOS 13.5 to iOS 15.3.1
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg> Can't download an app twice

Apple will let me download & install apps and even an entire operating
system, but I can't access even a single file that is stored on the iCloud.

Simply because I haven't logged into the iCloud manually for four years.

> of course, those who do use the cloud, no matter what provider, will
> log into it and remain logged into it so that they can enjoy all of its
> benefits.

My point to anyone who claims the cloud is "safe" is that, poof, it's gone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> *All your iCloud data? Poof!

All your data.
Everything.

Poof.
Gone.

All you have to do is _not_ log into the iCloud, & poof, your data is gone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Poof. *All your data? Gone!*

>> I have an entire thread on the Apple newsgroup on this (multiple threads,
>> actually, as I have _two_ iPads where Apple did this to me) where NOBODY
>> knows how to solve the problem.
>
> yes they do know.
> the solution is log in.

Easy to say, nospam, but what you never look at are the cites I provided:
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>

It doesn't matter _what_ login/password you give Apple after four years of
never having logged into the iCloud manually.

Apple unilaterally locks you out.
There is no known way back in (at least _you_ don't know it).

Neither do I.

> unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
> email and have no idea what the password is either.

I know exactly what the login and passwords are because it _accepted_ them.

Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>

Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.

> the problem is entirely of your own making.

I wonder where we heard that before?
Oh, yeah. iTunes.

Every flaw that Apple has, you claim is the users' fault.
*You're holding it wrong*
--
The point is that the iCloud is highly unreliable if you never log into it.
Apple will unilaterally lock you out of all your data with no help at all.

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>
>
> Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.

The point is that storing your precious data on the iCloud is NOT safe!

Bearing in mind how primitive Apple's systems are, I just noticed that when
it accepted my login and password, I was using a VPN privacy browser.

It could be Apple's systems are so freaking infantile that they locked me
out for that reason alone, after not having logged into the iCloud for four
years.

Bear in mind these things don't happen if you do _everything_ Apple tells
you to do (which includes allowing Apple to track everything you do via the
iCloud login) but I don't use the iPads only the primitive way Apple
requires.

I logged in _once_ (about four years ago) when the iPads were purchased.
And then about two years ago Apple started nagging me to log in again.
I've been dismissing that idiotic nag screen for two years.
Finally, I tried logging in (using a privacy browser)...

And Apple locked me out forever on one iPad:
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
On the other iPad (different iCloud account) it's still kind'of working.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg>

But all my iCloud data?
Poof.
Gone!
*Your AppleID has been locked for security reasons.*
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
--
The point is that storing your data on the iCloud is NOT safe!

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:15:21 -0600, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 2/17/22 09:36, Ken Blake wrote:
> > [quoted text muted]
> > And I never do it that way. I put the card (or cards, one at a time,
> > if there are several--which there often is if I've been away on
> > vacation) into a card reader which I then plug into a USB port, and
> > copy them from there.
>
> I do that. One reason is that it's usually easier (since I'd have to go
> into another room for a suitable USB cable).

Backwards for me. To get at the phone's SD card, I have to remove the
case, which is a pain. And I have all my charger cables neatly stowed
and labeled in my desk drawer, so connecting the phone to the PC's
USB port is the work of a moment.

> If I plug one of my cameras into a Windows system, I get an annoying
> prompt to install a driver. The driver is overcomplicated and hard to
> use.

Sorry to hear that. It's never happened to me, so I have no advice to
offer.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

In article <sumiq7$3t3$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> > they do not force a periodic login you got yourself into that situation.
>
> And yet, they do.

only because *you* fucked up.

> All you have to do is _not_ log into the iCloud, & poof, your data is gone.

false.

however, the more interesting question why do you care what's there?

if you haven't logged into icloud for several years (so you say), you
obviously have no use for anything that might be stored there (and it's
all there should you ever figure out how).

you do realize that to get at your data, you have to log in, right?

maybe not.

>
> > unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
> > email and have no idea what the password is either.
>
> I know exactly what the login and passwords are because it _accepted_ them.

then you will have no problem entering both of them again.

of course, that contradicts your earlier statements that you have no
idea what they are because according to you, it was a disposable email
and a random password you didn't think to save.

> Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).

no it didn't.

try once more, this time using the correct login/pw, and your self-made
problem will instantly vanish.

>
> Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.

shitty usenet will explain: you fucked up.

nospam wrote:

>> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into Linux,
>> but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them into Windows.
>
> they do not.

And yet, they do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

> after a trust ticket is issued, there is no longer a need to ask again.

What happens if, in the last four years, Apple _changed_ iCloud TOCs?

Must you agree to them manually?
Maybe that's why they are forcing another login after the first one?
> you are doing something unusual to prevent that from working properly.
> no surprise there.

What is different is I never log into the iCloud after the 1st time.

And even then, only because I'm forced to create an iCloud account.
(Otherwise you can't download any apps off the App Store.)

Note that modern use model works fine for Android.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg>
You still have complete access to all Google Play Store apps.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zBjX5kJ/aurora09.jpg>

It's only the iCloud that I know of that _forces_ a periodic login.

If you don't do that (I haven't logged into iCloud for years)...
Then Apple simply unilaterally locks you out forever.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
--
All your iCloud data? Poof. Gone.

On 17/02/2022 20:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Java Jive wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>>> another aspect of it that may be more concerning is that you may
>>>> lose some or all copyright once you put it in the cloud
>>>
>>> It's a private area of my google drive, not a public website like
>>> flickr, if I create a shareable link to an individual photo, or a
>>> public folder, I believe that would grant google rights to distribute
>>> those images, but not any rights to my intellectual property.
>>
>> That means absolutely nothing, I'm afraid.  If Google already reads
>> your supposedly private googlemail, as it does
>
> Almost exclusively I use gmail for test messages, and previously for
> public mailing lists, so they're welcome.

Same here.

>> very probably it scans your supposedly private cloud data too.
>
> But you seem to have changed direction from cloud=bad due to it somehow
> giving them copyright over my photos, to cloud=bad due to them scanning
> my stuff?

Not really, all along it's been cloud=bad because they sell what is
supposedly your private data and metadata.

>> Did you ever actually read the T&C that you agreed to?
>
> Yes.  Over 10 years ago when I started using a smartphone, it was clear
> you that to get full benefit from them, you do have to use cloud
> services, so rather than pick and choose a dozen different services from
> multiple providers, I chose to use one provider for as much as possible,
> and I've stuck to that.

I don't find that at all, I have a smart phone, and find no need to use
cloud services at all. The single exception was that, when I was in
between houses and had limited PC access, I backed up all the photos on
the phone to Dropbox and later thence to my PC, but I closed the account
after a year or so, because I felt they were making life difficult and
by then I'd bought a house, so was getting SFA use out of it anyway.

> There is one thing that google did annoy me with ... I setup a new
> google account purely for the smartphone (and later my other android
> devices) separate from my other google account ... at some point they
> did work out (presumably from use of the same IP static addresses and
> perhaps location tracking?) that both accounts were "me" and they have
> somehow linked the accounts.

Yep, standard behaviour. Have you noticed also that there seems to be
no easy way to opt out of so much Google stuff, or even, IIRC, to close
an account with them?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

nospam wrote:

> only because *you* fucked up.

How?

Was I holding both iPads wrong?

Note: Each iOS device has its own account (because it's forced on us).

>> All you have to do is _not_ log into the iCloud, & poof, your data is gone.
>
> false.

My only point was that data stored on the iCloud is inherently *unsafe*.
> however, the more interesting question why do you care what's there?

See below where Apple forces me to care what's on the iCloud.
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

Apple stores my data on the iCloud.
Not me.

Otherwise I would have not dismissed that prompt ten times a day for the
past two years (where you'd think the primitive iOS could add the concept
of "skip" to their kindergarten use model).
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
> if you haven't logged into icloud for several years (so you say), you
> obviously have no use for anything that might be stored there (and it's
> all there should you ever figure out how).

Like I said, I don't store anything I care about on the iCloud.
However, Apple does.
Unilaterally.

You forget I care to load software twice - which is _stuck_ on the iCloud.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
a. Apple lets me download the software & install it
b. But Apple _insists_ I get it back from the iCloud
c. And yet, Apple won't let me log into the iCloud to get it.

The fact is that your data is inherently *unsafe* on the iCloud.
It just is.

> you do realize that to get at your data, you have to log in, right?
>
> maybe not.

Tell me how to download this app which I didn't put in the iCloud.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>

Apple put that app in the iCloud.
Not me.

>>> unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
>>> email and have no idea what the password is either.
>>
>> I know exactly what the login and passwords are because it _accepted_ them.
>
> then you will have no problem entering both of them again.

Look again.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!

The fact you make excuses for Apple every second of the day is clear.
The fact is, it's downright _dangerous_ to store anything in Apple's iCloud.

Apple doesn't like something (like, oh, maybe your VPN browser?)
Poof.
All your data?
Gone!

> of course, that contradicts your earlier statements that you have no
> idea what they are because according to you, it was a disposable email
> and a random password you didn't think to save.

I have no idea what the email address is, nospam.
Because it was fabricated (for privacy reasons, nospam).

On Android, you don't need a login to the mothership, nospam.
You don't need it on Windows 10 either, nospam.
And you can still populate both with all the apps you would want.

But you must create a tracking login on the iOS device nospam.
Just to put apps on that iOS device.

You know this so stop playing silly kindergarten games.
The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store _anything_ on the iCloud.

>> Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).
>
> no it didn't.
>
> try once more, this time using the correct login/pw, and your self-made
> problem will instantly vanish.

Those _are_ the correct logins and passwords, nospam.
You didn't look at the screenshots.
Look.

Here they are again.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!

They're NOT saying the logins/passwords are wrong.
They're saying they're right.

They perhaps just don't like my IP address (it's a VPN ID from Russia).
But why should I have to log in without VPN to anything, nospam?

Especially to Apple's iCloud tracking servers? (Of all things!)

The fact is Apple locked me out (maybe because they're VPN browsers).
The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.

The fact you _hate_ that fact doesn't change the fact that it's a fact.

>>
>> Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.
>
> shitty usenet will explain: you fucked up.

I can predict years in advance that iKooks claim all Apple snafus are the
users' fault (as in "your're holding it wrong").

The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.
If Apple doesn't like the IP address you logged in from...
Poof.
All your data?

Gone!

On 2022-02-17 3:52 p.m., Java Jive wrote:
> On 17/02/2022 20:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> another aspect of it that may be more concerning is that you may
>>>>> lose some or all copyright once you put it in the cloud
>>>>
>>>> It's a private area of my google drive, not a public website like
>>>> flickr, if I create a shareable link to an individual photo, or a
>>>> public folder, I believe that would grant google rights to
>>>> distribute those images, but not any rights to my intellectual
>>>> property.
>>>
>>> That means absolutely nothing, I'm afraid.  If Google already reads
>>> your supposedly private googlemail, as it does
>>
>> Almost exclusively I use gmail for test messages, and previously for
>> public mailing lists, so they're welcome.
>
> Same here.
>
>>> very probably it scans your supposedly private cloud data too.
>>
>> But you seem to have changed direction from cloud=bad due to it
>> somehow giving them copyright over my photos, to cloud=bad due to them
>> scanning my stuff?
>
> Not really, all along it's been cloud=bad because they sell what is
> supposedly your private data and metadata.

Not every provider does that.

On 2022-02-17 3:33 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into
>>> Linux, but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them
>>> into Windows.
>>
>> they do not.
>
> And yet, they do.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

That has literally NOTHING to do with what you claimed.

On 2022-02-17 3:58 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> only because *you* fucked up.
>
> How?
>
> Was I holding both iPads wrong?
> Note: Each iOS device has its own account (because it's forced on us).
>
>>> All you have to do is _not_ log into the iCloud, & poof, your data is
>>> gone.
>>
>> false.
>
> My only point was that data stored on the iCloud is inherently *unsafe*.

Your point is not supported by a falsehood.

>
>> however, the more interesting question why do you care what's there?
>
> See below where Apple forces me to care what's on the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

Literally nothing to do with iCloud.

>
> Apple stores my data on the iCloud. Not me.
>
> Otherwise I would have not dismissed that prompt ten times a day for the
> past two years (where you'd think the primitive iOS could add the concept
> of "skip" to their kindergarten use model).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>

You're lying.

Again.

>
>> if you haven't logged into icloud for several years (so you say), you
>> obviously have no use for anything that might be stored there (and it's
>> all there should you ever figure out how).
>
> Like I said, I don't store anything I care about on the iCloud.
> However, Apple does.
> Unilaterally.
>
> You forget I care to load software twice - which is _stuck_ on the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
> a. Apple lets me download the software & install it
> b. But Apple _insists_ I get it back from the iCloud
> c. And yet, Apple won't let me log into the iCloud to get it.
>
> The fact is that your data is inherently *unsafe* on the iCloud. It just
> is.

Because "It just is" is SUCH a compelling argument...

>
>> you do realize that to get at your data, you have to log in, right?
>>
>> maybe not.
>
> Tell me how to download this app which I didn't put in the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>
>
> Apple put that app in the iCloud.

The fact that it has a "cloud" icon doesn't mean it is in iCloud.

> Not me.
>
>>>> unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
>>>> email and have no idea what the password is either.
>>>
>>> I know exactly what the login and passwords are because it _accepted_
>>> them.
>>
>> then you will have no problem entering both of them again.
>
> Look again.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!

That doesn't show what circumstances made that necessary...

....and I can make the same thing happen by deliberately attempting to
sign in with the wrong password enough times.

> <https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
>
> The fact you make excuses for Apple every second of the day is clear.
> The fact is, it's downright _dangerous_ to store anything in Apple's
> iCloud.
>
> Apple doesn't like something (like, oh, maybe your VPN browser?)
> Poof.
> All your data?
> Gone!

Got an example of that ever actually happening?

>
>> of course, that contradicts your earlier statements that you have no
>> idea what they are because according to you, it was a disposable email
>> and a random password you didn't think to save.
>
> I have no idea what the email address is, nospam.
> Because it was fabricated (for privacy reasons, nospam).
>
> On Android, you don't need a login to the mothership, nospam.
> You don't need it on Windows 10 either, nospam.
> And you can still populate both with all the apps you would want.
>
> But you must create a tracking login on the iOS device nospam.
> Just to put apps on that iOS device.

And you don't need to use it for any other thing ever...

....so how does it "track" you?

>
> You know this so stop playing silly kindergarten games.
> The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store _anything_ on the iCloud.
>
>>> Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).
>>
>> no it didn't.
>>
>> try once more, this time using the correct login/pw, and your self-made
>> problem will instantly vanish.
>
> Those _are_ the correct logins and passwords, nospam.
> You didn't look at the screenshots.
> Look.
>
> Here they are again.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!

Still false.

>
> They're NOT saying the logins/passwords are wrong.
> They're saying they're right.
>
> They perhaps just don't like my IP address (it's a VPN ID from Russia).
> But why should I have to log in without VPN to anything, nospam?
>
> Especially to Apple's iCloud tracking servers? (Of all things!)
>
> The fact is Apple locked me out (maybe because they're VPN browsers).
> The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.
>
> The fact you _hate_ that fact doesn't change the fact that it's a fact.
>
>>>
>>> Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.
>>
>> shitty usenet will explain: you fucked up.
>
> I can predict years in advance that iKooks claim all Apple snafus are the
> users' fault (as in "your're holding it wrong").
>
> The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.
> If Apple doesn't like the IP address you logged in from...
> Poof.
> All your data?
>
> Gone!

Because you say so?

LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLO

Java Jive wrote:

> I don't find that at all, I have a smart phone, and find no need to use
> cloud services at all.

I've asked Andy Burns to let us know _what_ the cloud does that he can't do
at home _without_ the cloud (although I recognize that if he's a hundred
miles from home, putting things on the cloud does allow that distance).

But other than use of his data across a hundred miles (instead of on his own
network or across a USB cable), I can't think of a single thing offhand that
the iCloud is "required" for that you can't do without it.

You don't even need a mothership login on Android (although it's required on
iOS).

>> at some point they
>> did work out (presumably from use of the same IP static addresses and
>> perhaps location tracking?) that both accounts were "me" and they have
>> somehow linked the accounts.
>
> Yep, standard behaviour. Have you noticed also that there seems to be
> no easy way to opt out of so much Google stuff, or even, IIRC, to close
> an account with them?

Google _does_ make it hard to opt out once you log in, where my un-rooted
phones use almost zero Google stuff, but to Andy Burns' claim, I suspect
something else is in play rather than Google "figuring it out".

I've tested extensively what happens when you log in using specific Google
Apps such as Google Play Store, Google Gmail, and Google Voice (and others
such as Google Maps and Google Youtube) where the first three do something
VERY sneaky (while the other two do _different_ sneaky things).

Just as Google Maps runs a completely different Android Activity when you
turn location on (it runs a _sneaky_ sleazy set of tracking settings!)
Action = ACTION.MAIN (android.intent.action.MAIN)
Package Name = com.google.android.gms
Class Name = com.google.android.gms.location.settings.LocationAccuracyActivity
Category = CATEGORY.LAUNCHER (android.intent.category.LAUNCHER)

When you run the first three in that list, Google unilaterally _creates_ an
account _on the phone_ for you (or, as in Andy's case, it probably _links_
two accounts if one was already on the phone).
intent:#intent;action=android.intent.action.MAIN;
category=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER;
package=com.google.android.gms;
component=com.google.android.gms/com.google.android.gms.location.settings.LocationAccuracyActivity;
end

Notice that I'm NOT talking about having a Google Account on the net.
That's different.

I'm talking about Google unilaterally associating the Android phone with
that account (which is what Andy Burns appears to be talking about).

I know Andy Burns knows more about Android than I do, so he understands that
what I'm telling him is there is a good chance, based on my extensive tests,
that his only mistake was logging into "some" Google apps which unilaterally
associate the account to the phone.

Since I only have one Google Account to play with, I don't know if it
_links_ them, but I _know_ it _creates_ them on the phone, even when you
have no Google Account set up on the phone like I always do.

BTW, the way I first noticed this (before I tested it extensively) was:
a. I turn off all sleazy Google settings - and then they came back.
That's when I realized Google Maps pulls sleazy tricks.
b. I don't have any Google Account on my phone - but it was created.
That's when I realized Google Voice _creates_ the acct on the phone!

I can give tons more detail as I studied this for days on end, but the end
result is that Google pulls sleazy tricks so you have to learn to stay away
from certain Activities (most of which are in com.google.android.gms).
--
For those who don't know what an "Activity" is, it's essentially a screen
inside an app which is a GUI that usually has options you can set or press.

On 18.02.2022 01:57, Alan wrote:

> LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLO

Where did this fool come from?

In article <summ03$19sb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> >> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into
> >> Linux,
> >> but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them into Windows.
> >
> > they do not.
>
> And yet, they do.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
>
> > after a trust ticket is issued, there is no longer a need to ask again.
>
> What happens if, in the last four years, Apple _changed_ iCloud TOCs?

icloud has nothing to do with connecting an iphone to a computer.

you said windows asks to trust repeatedly. that is false.

something *you* are doing is preventing windows from saving a trust
ticket.

fix your shitty multi-posting scripts.

In article <sumnfn$1pme$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Like I said, I don't store anything I care about on the iCloud.

then why do you care if it's supposedly gone?

> > you do realize that to get at your data, you have to log in, right?
> >
> > maybe not.
>
> Tell me how to download this app which I didn't put in the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>

tap the cloud button. duh.

> Apple put that app in the iCloud.
> Not me.

yes you.

you previously downloaded that app and later deleted it.

the cloud button simply indicates that the app had been previously
downloaded.

instead of a 'get' button (for free apps) or a $/£ price button (for
paid apps), there's now a cloud button because you own that app.

this also answers one of your previous questions on how to re-install
apps.

> Apple won't let you back in!

if only usenet would do the same.

>
> > of course, that contradicts your earlier statements that you have no
> > idea what they are because according to you, it was a disposable email
> > and a random password you didn't think to save.
>
> I have no idea what the email address is, nospam.
> Because it was fabricated (for privacy reasons, nospam).

then you're going to have a difficult time logging in, aren't you?

that also contradicts your claim that they are the correct credentials

>
> On Android, you don't need a login to the mothership, nospam.

you do if you want to use the play store.

> You don't need it on Windows 10 either, nospam.

you do for windows 11 home, and windows 10 really wants you have a
microsoft account.

> > try once more, this time using the correct login/pw, and your self-made
> > problem will instantly vanish.
>
> Those _are_ the correct logins and passwords, nospam.

how can they be, if by your own admission, you don't know what the
email address is?

do you even think about the bullshit you shovel?

and fix your shitty multi-posting scripts.

nospam wrote:

> icloud has nothing to do with connecting an iphone to a computer.

Yes. This is true. I stand corrected on that one item as I misunderstood you
given you always brazenly simply claim all facts you hate are always wrong.

I had thought you were talking about the fact Apple forces an iCloud login.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gt39Q7Pp/osupdate05.jpg>

I accidentally missed that in that comment you were talking about PC trust.

I'm at a location in Cupertino where I can run the tests you require since,
unlike you, I only state facts which I can prove are the facts I state.

You're wrong in this case also, but I had responded to a different error of
yours, so I apologize as I'm _never_ afraid to admit I'm wrong if/when I am.

But the main point to make is that to store data on the iCloud is to risk
losing it all at the mere whims of Apple alone (e.g., if you use a VPN).

> you said windows asks to trust repeatedly. that is false.

You're wrong this time.
But, unlike you, I'll simply prove it.
With facts.

Again I have to be gentle with you as you have no education.
So you say things that you'd never get away with in any technical
environment. You can only survive on Usenet where the bar is super low.

This time I understand you're talking about the connection to Windows.

Here... I'll do it again, right now, and I'll screenshot it for you.
9:35PM before & after
<https://i.postimg.cc/hvCnqdj4/trust01.jpg>
9:36PM before & after
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMzV3gqn/trust02.jpg>

See.
Every time I try to connect to Windows, it asks to establish trust.
It just does.

I understand you have no education, & that you don't know iOS any better
than I do, but you have to stop pretending that you know the answer nospam.

You don't.

> something *you* are doing is preventing windows from saving a trust
> ticket.

All I do is plug it in to the PC over USB.

Am I holding it wrong?
--
> fix your shitty multi-posting scripts.

They don't like multiple groups that aren't necessarily in all posts.