https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/18/22940517/windows-11-pro-require-microsoft-account-internet-connection
Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account

You'll also need an internet connection during setup.

Microsoft says it's planning to update Windows 11 Pro so it will require an
internet connection and a Microsoft Account during the initial setup phase.
The changes will mirror the same requirements Microsoft originally added to
Windows 11 Home last year, meaning you won't be able to avoid Microsoft
Accounts by creating a local user account during setup.

Microsoft has been increasingly pushing Windows users to use a Microsoft
Account since Windows 10, and this new change to Windows 11 Pro won't sit
well with many hoping to avoid Microsoft's data and telemetry gathering in
Windows.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/new-preview-build-adds-microsoft-account-requirement-to-windows-11-pro/
You'll need a Microsoft account to set up future versions of Windows 11 Pro

Tucked away toward the bottom of the changelog is one unwelcome addition:
like the Home edition of Windows 11, the Pro version will now require an
Internet connection and a Microsoft account during setup. In the current
version of Windows 11, you could still create a local user account during
setup by not connecting your PC to the Internet-something that also worked
in the Home version of Windows 10 but was removed in 11. That workaround
will no longer be available in either edition going forward, barring a
change in Microsoft's plans.

NewsKrawler <newskrawl@krawl.org> posted this via
news:suoh96$3fqbd$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/18/22940517/windows-11-pro-require-micros
> oft-account-internet-connection Windows 11 Pro will soon require a
> Microsoft Account
>
> You'll also need an internet connection during setup.
>
> Microsoft says it's planning to update Windows 11 Pro so it will require
> an internet connection and a Microsoft Account during the initial setup
> phase. The changes will mirror the same requirements Microsoft
> originally added to Windows 11 Home last year, meaning you won't be able
> to avoid Microsoft Accounts by creating a local user account during
> setup.
>
> Microsoft has been increasingly pushing Windows users to use a Microsoft
> Account since Windows 10, and this new change to Windows 11 Pro won't
> sit well with many hoping to avoid Microsoft's data and telemetry
> gathering in Windows.
>
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/new-preview-build-adds-microsoft-
> account-requirement-to-windows-11-pro/ You'll need a Microsoft account
> to set up future versions of Windows 11 Pro
>
> Tucked away toward the bottom of the changelog is one unwelcome
> addition: like the Home edition of Windows 11, the Pro version will now
> require an Internet connection and a Microsoft account during setup. In
> the current version of Windows 11, you could still create a local user
> account during setup by not connecting your PC to the Internet-something
> that also worked in the Home version of Windows 10 but was removed in
> 11. That workaround will no longer be available in either edition going
> forward, barring a change in Microsoft's plans.

Wasn't that the way it always was?

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^;

And *NO*, that is *NOT* a Jedi Light Saber I have in my pocket!

But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm happy to see you either.

Bucky Breeder wrote:

> NewsKrawler quoted:
>
>> Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account
>
> Wasn't that the way it always was?

Not with Pro.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 16:25:11 -0000 (UTC), NewsKrawler wrote:
> Microsoft has been increasingly pushing Windows users to use a Microsoft
> Account since Windows 10, and this new change to Windows 11 Pro won't sit
> well with many hoping to avoid Microsoft's data and telemetry gathering in
> Windows.

Not to mention the NSA, the military, and others that are restricted
from using Internet connections on a substantial fraction of their
computers. (I know this from my years in tech support, when customers
would call with a problem but not be able to access a simple fix from
our website.)

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown wrote:

> NewsKrawler wrote:
>
>> Microsoft has been increasingly pushing Windows users to use a Microsoft
>> Account since Windows 10, and this new change to Windows 11 Pro won't sit
>> well with many hoping to avoid Microsoft's data and telemetry gathering in
>> Windows.
>
> Not to mention the NSA, the military, and others that are restricted
> from using Internet connections on a substantial fraction of their
> computers.

They'll be using Enterprise, not Pro or Home ...or maybe there's a
"ThreeLetterAgency" version for them?

Stan Brown wrote:

> Not to mention the NSA

Hi Stan,

Long ago I also supported the NSA although we had to call it the Dept. of
Defense over at Fort Mead, in those red brick buildings that had windows but
thick heavy curtains over them from floor to ceiling because they hadn't
finished their new secure building at the time.

Every area had a letter and a number, but I won't say which as that's how it
works. They escorted you everywhere, even to the rest rooms and elevators.

I remember they were the first high tech customers to have metal detectors,
and they inspected our briefcases (yes, in those days, that's what we used
as laptops didn't exist) for microdots (we used transparencies in those
days).

At one point they sent me to Haifa, where I really learned what security was
about, and remember, this is way before the Osama bin Laden stuff.

Anyway, you have a point that the mothership login is a tracking device.
a. Apple has _always_ tracked the users via their mothership login
b. Android has also, but, and this is huge, it's not required
c. Windows also has it, but up until now, it wasn't required either

It's a terrible trend indeed, but I'm sure the DoD won't be logging into
Microsoft servers so their version of the OS will be at the corporate level.

On 19/2/2022 0:25, NewsKrawler wrote:
>
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/new-preview-build-adds-microsoft-account-requirement-to-windows-11-pro/
> You'll need a Microsoft account to set up future versions of Windows 11 Pro
>
> Tucked away toward the bottom of the changelog is one unwelcome addition:
> like the Home edition of Windows 11, the Pro version will now require an
> Internet connection and a Microsoft account during setup. In the current
> version of Windows 11, you could still create a local user account during
> setup by not connecting your PC to the Internet-something that also worked
> in the Home version of Windows 10 but was removed in 11. That workaround
> will no longer be available in either edition going forward, barring a
> change in Microsoft's plans.
Time to switch over to Linux and see when Linux would follow suit. Or
should we just forget about Win 11 as well as Micro$oft, and stick with
Win 7? :)

Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> Time to switch over to Linux and see when Linux would follow suit.

I never fully understood why Linux doesn't take over, but I attribute it to
Microsoft Office penetration in the business world.

Nonetheless, does anyone have a good reason _why_ Microsoft is insisting on
the login and Internet connection (other than what MS might claim is that
reason)?

Why?

On 2/19/22 10:46, this is what Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 19/2/2022 0:25, NewsKrawler wrote:
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/new-preview-build-adds-microsoft-account-requirement-to-windows-11-pro/
>> You'll need a Microsoft account to set up future versions of Windows 11 Pro
>>
>> Tucked away toward the bottom of the changelog is one unwelcome addition:
>> like the Home edition of Windows 11, the Pro version will now require an
>> Internet connection and a Microsoft account during setup. In the current
>> version of Windows 11, you could still create a local user account during
>> setup by not connecting your PC to the Internet-something that also worked
>> in the Home version of Windows 10 but was removed in 11. That workaround
>> will no longer be available in either edition going forward, barring a
>> change in Microsoft's plans.

> Time to switch over to Linux and see when Linux would follow suit. Or should we just forget about Win 11 as well as Micro$oft, and stick
> with Win 7? :)

Linux would never follow suit. There is no master Linux login and password to demand. They do demand a login ID (name) and password.

On 2/19/22 10:57, this is what Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
>> Time to switch over to Linux and see when Linux would follow suit.
>
> I never fully understood why Linux doesn't take over, but I attribute it to
> Microsoft Office penetration in the business world.
>
That, and Linux, as simple as I think it is, is not quite the plug and play that Windows is. And not all companies are writing Linux
versions of their software.

On 2/19/2022 10:57 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
>> Time to switch over to Linux and see when Linux would follow suit.
>
> I never fully understood why Linux doesn't take over, but I attribute it to
> Microsoft Office penetration in the business world.
>
> Nonetheless, does anyone have a good reason _why_ Microsoft is insisting on
> the login and Internet connection (other than what MS might claim is that
> reason)?
>
> Why?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Bill wrote:

>> Why?
>
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

How?

On 2/19/2022 12:52 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>> Why?
>>
>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
> How?

You can't think of how they can make any money by having
the potential ability to track every move you make on your computer?
Have you observed that some of the world's biggest corporations (Google,
Facebook, etc.) make virtually ALL of their revenue from marketing?
Apparently, Microsoft wants a piece of that pie...

Bill wrote:

> You can't think of how they can make any money by having
> the potential ability to track every move you make on your computer?
> Have you observed that some of the world's biggest corporations (Google,
> Facebook, etc.) make virtually ALL of their revenue from marketing?
> Apparently, Microsoft wants a piece of that pie...

The question is how.
That doesn't explain how.

Apple, for example, tracks your every move by every iOS login, which is
worse than the Android login because it's _required_ to make iOS usable.

While Google can't even collect that information, Apple claims to not _sell_
that information (although they use that login-tracking to serve their ads).

The question isn't whether - it's how they plan to make money off of it.

Bill wrote:
> On 2/19/2022 12:52 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>>> Why?
>>>
>>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>>
>> How?
>
> You can't think of how they can make any money by having
> the potential ability to track every move you make on your computer?
> Have you observed that some of the world's biggest corporations (Google,
> Facebook, etc.) make virtually ALL of their revenue from marketing?
> Apparently, Microsoft wants a piece of that pie...

That entire pie has been monetized from day one.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

....w�񧱤� wrote:

> That entire pie has been monetized from day one.

That doesn't tell us anything we don't all already know.
The question is _how_ does Microsoft plan on making money off the login.

If you're on Windows 10, and you do not want to log into any Microsoft
server, you don't have to, and you have full & complete functionality.

Same with Android. In both cases you simply hit the "Skip" selection,
and the Windows 10 or Android device works perfectly fine without it.

It's a bit more complex with iOS as you are essentially forced by Apple to
log in periodically (ask me how I know), as they force re-validation.

But even Apple "says" they don't monetize the vast information they collect
on you (tens of thousands of bits of data constantly); Apple "says" they use
all that data they forcibly collect and store "only" to serve you their ads.

OK. I'll believe them.

So what is Microsoft doing with the forced login on Windows 11 systems?
Why is Microsoft doing it?

If it's for Microsoft profit, how?

On 2/19/2022 2:08 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> ...w�񧱤� wrote:
>
>> That entire pie has been monetized from day one.
>
> That doesn't tell us anything we don't all already know. The question is
> _how_ does Microsoft plan on making money off the login.
>
> If you're on Windows 10, and you do not want to log into any Microsoft
> server, you don't have to, and you have full & complete functionality.
>
> Same with Android. In both cases you simply hit the "Skip" selection,
> and the Windows 10 or Android device works perfectly fine without it.
>
> It's a bit more complex with iOS as you are essentially forced by Apple to
> log in periodically (ask me how I know), as they force re-validation.
>
> But even Apple "says" they don't monetize the vast information they collect
> on you (tens of thousands of bits of data constantly); Apple "says" they
> use
> all that data they forcibly collect and store "only" to serve you their
> ads.
>
> OK. I'll believe them.
>
> So what is Microsoft doing with the forced login on Windows 11 systems?
> Why is Microsoft doing it?
>
> If it's for Microsoft profit, how?

You could ask them (maybe their plans are outlined in their "annual
report" (to the shareholders)). The most accurate answer is "Anyway they
can." If they get no pushback, then you can count on there being more of
it, and it being more extensive.

"Bill" <nonegiven@att.net> wrote

| > If it's for Microsoft profit, how?
| | You could ask them (maybe their plans are outlined in their "annual
| report" (to the shareholders)). The most accurate answer is "Anyway they
| can." If they get no pushback, then you can count on there being more of
| it, and it being more extensive.
|

For several years now they've been pushing "Windows as
a service". By making you log into an account
you're accepting that while you own your computer, they
own the computing. That's what cloud is all about. Renting
computing itself. If you have to sign up to use your computer
at all, and you go along with that, then you're agreeing that
it's not your computer in any real sense.

Once it's defined clearly as their service, you have to agree
to their terms. Spying, ads, rental for software, possibly
disallowing programs like Firefox or Libre Office... This is also
a possible way to "cut off Google's/Apple's/Facebook's air
supply". Remember when they built in IE? Netscape died soon
after. As MS increasingly offers Windows as a kiosk system
for consumer services, they don't even need to compete.
Search, shopping, word processing? It could all be contained
through a button click. Like AOL, there doesn't necessarily
even have to be a back door out of the cage. Or if there is,
they'll hide it behind a button marked "Advanced" and
accompanied by a safety warning.

It's amazing to me that no one is talking about illegal
activity here. There should be attorneys general jumping
all over MS. I'm curious how it will play out in Europe, where
society is more civilized and corporations less brazen.

On 2022-02-19 17:12, Big Al wrote:
> On 2/19/22 10:57, this is what Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>
>>> Time to switch over to Linux and see when Linux would follow suit.
>>
>> I never fully understood why Linux doesn't take over, but I attribute
>> it to
>> Microsoft Office penetration in the business world.
>>
> That, and Linux, as simple as I think it is, is not quite the plug and
> play that Windows is.  And not all companies are writing Linux versions
> of their software.

If customers say they will not be using Windows 11, then said companies
will provide Linux versions of their software. Plain simple.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:57:24 +0000, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Nonetheless, does anyone have a good reason _why_ Microsoft is insisting on
>the login and Internet connection (other than what MS might claim is that
>reason)?

Only with a Microsoft login you can use the services in the Microsoft
cloud the company wants to sell to you. Somehow MS has to pave the way
into its cloud for you.

On 2022-02-19 3:56 p.m., Mayayana wrote:
> "Bill" <nonegiven@att.net> wrote
>
> | > If it's for Microsoft profit, how?
> |
> | You could ask them (maybe their plans are outlined in their "annual
> | report" (to the shareholders)). The most accurate answer is "Anyway they
> | can." If they get no pushback, then you can count on there being more of
> | it, and it being more extensive.
> |
>
> For several years now they've been pushing "Windows as
> a service". By making you log into an account
> you're accepting that while you own your computer, they
> own the computing. That's what cloud is all about. Renting
> computing itself. If you have to sign up to use your computer
> at all, and you go along with that, then you're agreeing that
> it's not your computer in any real sense.

The hardware is still in your possession and secured in every possible
way by Microsoft. If ever you want to continue using your hardware but
Microsoft decided that your system is too old to still support, you can
continue using Windows without updates or install Linux on it. This
argument that "you're renting your PC" is one that the Linux advocates
have been using for decades to make you feel like Microsoft is
oppressing you and convince you to install their inferior OS. It might
have worked then but people are wiser to their tricks now.

> Once it's defined clearly as their service, you have to agree
> to their terms. Spying, ads, rental for software, possibly
> disallowing programs like Firefox or Libre Office...

Spying and ads go together but it should be noted that the "spying" is
anonymous and used specifically to create a more accurate profile of you
for targeted advertisement purposes. As for Firefox and LibreOffice not
being allowed, look at the Microsoft Store: it's filled with garbage
which was never controlled for quality by anyone. Unless either or both
become serious security problems, there will be a way for them to make
their way to Windows at no charge to users.

> This is also
> a possible way to "cut off Google's/Apple's/Facebook's air
> supply". Remember when they built in IE? Netscape died soon
> after.

IE didn't kill Netscape; Netscape turning into Nutscrape killed it.
There was only so much instability and fat.db garbage people were going
to put up with. IE worked, Netscape worked temporarily. Once the
aforementioned file started growing, your web sites didn't load at all
and most people didn't know that deleting fat.db would solve the
problems; they had no idea such a file even existed. I worked at an ISP
at the time where Netscape was the only browser supported because it was
what we bundled with our software. People _begged_ us to support IE
because Netscape was THAT bad.

> As MS increasingly offers Windows as a kiosk system
> for consumer services, they don't even need to compete.
> Search, shopping, word processing? It could all be contained
> through a button click. Like AOL, there doesn't necessarily
> even have to be a back door out of the cage. Or if there is,
> they'll hide it behind a button marked "Advanced" and
> accompanied by a safety warning.
>
> It's amazing to me that no one is talking about illegal
> activity here. There should be attorneys general jumping
> all over MS. I'm curious how it will play out in Europe, where
> society is more civilized and corporations less brazen.

Absolutely none of what Microsoft is doing is illegal and even if it
were, you agreed to it when you first set up your computer or installed
Windows. Nobody is obligated to buy Office, to install Office or even to
use the web Office apps. Nobody is forced to use Edge either. Hell,
you're not even forced to use the Microsoft Store.

--
rabidR04CH
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
For fans of message boards, I invite you:
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:08:27 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>If customers say they will not be using Windows 11, then said companies
>will provide Linux versions of their software. Plain simple.

Won`t happen:
https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
Major Linux Problems
on the Desktop, 2022 edition

Using a device with Chrome OS or Chrome OS Flex or using an Android
Smartphone in desktop mode instead of Window 11 seem to be more
realistic for me in the mass market.

On 2022-02-19 4:53 p.m., Michael Logies wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:08:27 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> If customers say they will not be using Windows 11, then said companies
>> will provide Linux versions of their software. Plain simple.
>
> Won`t happen:
> https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
> Major Linux Problems
> on the Desktop, 2022 edition
>
> Using a device with Chrome OS or Chrome OS Flex or using an Android
> Smartphone in desktop mode instead of Window 11 seem to be more
> realistic for me in the mass market.

Linux is not likely to ever be ready for the desktop. It's basically
fine, but that's as far as it goes. It's much too likely to crap out on
you during an upgrade or an update and too unlikely to assist you in
fixing the issue to be deployed on regular people. Average people find
MacOS and Windows too complicated to fix so you can imagine how open
they would be to Linux.

--
rabidR04CH
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
For fans of message boards, I invite you:
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

On 2/19/2022 5:02 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-02-19 4:53 p.m., Michael Logies wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:08:27 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> If customers say they will not be using Windows 11, then said companies
>>> will provide Linux versions of their software. Plain simple.
>>
>> Won`t happen:
>> https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
>> Major Linux Problems
>> on the Desktop, 2022 edition
>>
>> Using a device with Chrome OS or Chrome OS Flex or using an Android
>> Smartphone in desktop mode instead of Window 11 seem to be more
>> realistic for me in the mass market.
>
> Linux is not likely to ever be ready for the desktop. It's basically fine, but that's as far as it goes. It's much too likely to crap out on you during an upgrade or an update and too unlikely to assist you in fixing the issue to be deployed on regular people. Average people find MacOS and Windows too complicated to fix so you can imagine how open they would be to Linux.
>

That's why it has Timeshift or the like.

I just back up my EXT4 partitions with Macrium. Keep
your Macrium CD, kids :-)

Linux works best, if you don't screw with it too much.
Nouveau instead of NVidia, avoid DKMS usage, that should
give a better lifecycle behavior. Only a power user can find
the menus to really screw it up.

Every distro has a focus. Slackware or Arch or Gentoo or LFS, are not
things you would try first. Neither would you try FreeBSD nor
OpenBSD. Zorin is an example of where distros could go. There's
at least one distro that charges money for the "Pro" version,
and gives away the demo version. All that charging money does,
is puts a "commercial spin" on the offering. The staff, in theory,
care about the home user experience.

Ubuntu has moved on, from the "purest user experience". They might make
their money from the server side of the business. Sure, they still
issue a desktop DVD, it's still carefully prepared. But when it
does sloggy shit to further its business interests and takes
three or four minutes to boot, you're going to be wishing for
Jesus to come take you. It has absolutely the worst "systemd"
manners. A cretin set that up. And don't forget to ditch the "Snaps".

LinuxMint, relies on the preparations done by Ubuntu (as does the Microsoft
Ubuntu Bash offering). LinuxMint is more focused on user experience,
but the fit and finish of the different releases, varies somewhat.
That's why I still keep 19.x on a USB flash stick, for maintenance OPs.
It doesn't annoy me.

I think there's some room for an ordinary user, to have a shop
install a distro for them. Use an LTS version, with the lifecycle
set at X number of years. Go back to the shop and have them
do the upgrade to the next LTS version. That's if "Linux is too
hard for me" :-) I think you could think up some kind of a plan,
when the pressure is on to switch.

Paul

On 2/19/2022 4:44 PM, Michael Logies wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:57:24 +0000, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Nonetheless, does anyone have a good reason _why_ Microsoft is insisting on
>> the login and Internet connection (other than what MS might claim is that
>> reason)?
>
> Only with a Microsoft login you can use the services in the Microsoft
> cloud the company wants to sell to you. Somehow MS has to pave the way
> into its cloud for you.
>

An *optional* MSA login, is pavement enough, thanks.

If a customer wants to partake, the mechanism is all too obvious.
The login box appears when the MSA is required for said service.

There's no need to be shoving it...

The base OS works just fine without an MSA. Multiple
installations that way here, tell me so. The mandatory
MSA on this installation, does squat for me. I don't
use OneDrive, and have minus infinity interest in
sharing files on a Cloud server. The prompt for OneDrive,
a notification, shows up *every time I boot*.

Paul