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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

SubjectAuthor
* Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BSpalls Hurgenson
+- Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BJAB
`* Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BZaghadka
 +- Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BZaghadka
 +- Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BDimensional Traveler
 `* Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BJustisaur
  `* Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BSpalls Hurgenson
   `* Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BDimensional Traveler
    +- Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BSpalls Hurgenson
    `- Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-BJustisaur

1
Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 02:04 UTC

Oh, Ubisoft. Was Activision getting too much of the bad press? Well, I
doubt your little mis-step here will boot Activision out of the
hotseat, but it's a good try.

So what did they do?

A month or so back, Ubisoft announced they were adding NFTs to their
games. Whether you think this is a good or bad idea (even here on
c.s.i.p.g.action, opinion is split), gamers as a whole revolted at the
idea. Nicolas Poulard, VP at Ubisoft's Strategic Innovations Lab (one
of the movers and shakers behind the NFT idea) then came up with this
clever strategy:

Blame the users.*

"It's really beneficial," Poulard claims (without offering any facts).
"It's a paradigm shift in gaming," he asserted, because everybody
loves business words like that**. "[We're] giving gamers the
opportunity to resell their items," he insisted, as if this was the
sort of thing that couldn't be done without NFTs.

"They just don't get it," he said. "It's not an easy concept to
grasp."

Foot, meet mouth.

Ubisoft's response reminds me of Apple's lame "You're holding it
wrong" excuse for the iPhone 4's poor connectivity. Or Principal
Skinner (of The Simpsons) meme-worthy reflection, "Am I out of touch?
No, it's the children who are wrong." Either way, it's blaming their
failure on the wrong side.

Look, I think NFTs are a terrible idea in general, and have no place
in games in specific... but let's assume that maybe - just maybe -
NFTs have some merit. If your customers aren't warming to the idea,
Ubisoft, it's all on you for failing to make your case convincingly.
It's not that we, as gamers, "don't get it"; it's that you haven't
presented us anything we want. Blaming your customers for the faults
of your marketing team (or your engineering division, or for your
C-level decisions) is always the worst thing you can do. And Ubisoft
shareholders, you should take note, because if this is the best the
leadership can do, then you really need to reconsider who is heading
up this company.

Meanwhile, not everyone at Ubisoft is convinced that this direction of
theirs - that is, moving forward with NFTs, not blaming their
customers - is the best way forward. A number of employees have
apparently taken their umbrage with the scheme directly up to CEO Yves
Guillemot, and the trade union representing Paris staffers also
criticized the decision. Whether Ubisoft will back off or double down
remains to be seen.

But I expect we'll soon here an 'apology' (or at least a
'clarification') from Ubisoft regarding Nicolas Poulard's comments
shortly.

--------------
* here's the story if you want to read it yourself. It may require a
subscription. https://www.finder.com.au/ubisoft-interview-nfts

** in fairness, he was giving an interview to a finance-focused
website; they probably DO like when people talk like that.

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: now...@co.uk (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:53:10 +0000
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 by: JAB - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:53 UTC

Ah yes, the old it's not what we are doing is wrong, it's that people
just don't understand how brilliant we are.

As an aside, there's an interesting letter from Square Enix doing the
rounds where NFT's are featured. The basic premise seems to be we want
our customers to develop content for us and then if it makes money we'll
take a slice of it.

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 07:15:48 -0600
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 by: Zaghadka - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 13:15 UTC

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>"They just don't get it," he said. "It's not an easy concept to
>grasp."

It's so easy to grasp that someone took the Bored Ape Yacht Club, turned
the photos left to right, and sold them as an NFT and, for the time
being, got away with it.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/30/22860010/bored-ape-yacht-club-payc-phayc-copycat-nft

NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.

I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
sticker*.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
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 by: Zaghadka - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 16:00 UTC

On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 07:15:48 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Zaghadka wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>>"They just don't get it," he said. "It's not an easy concept to
>>grasp."
>
>It's so easy to grasp that someone took the Bored Ape Yacht Club, turned
>the photos left to right, and sold them as an NFT and, for the time
>being, got away with it.
>
>https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/30/22860010/bored-ape-yacht-club-payc-phayc-copycat-nft
>
>NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.
>
>I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
>sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
>sticker*.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdzb5/more-than-80-of-nfts-created-for-free-on-opensea-are-fraud-or-spam-company-says

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:50:23 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 16:50 UTC

On 1/29/2022 5:15 AM, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>> "They just don't get it," he said. "It's not an easy concept to
>> grasp."
>
> It's so easy to grasp that someone took the Bored Ape Yacht Club, turned
> the photos left to right, and sold them as an NFT and, for the time
> being, got away with it.
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/30/22860010/bored-ape-yacht-club-payc-phayc-copycat-nft
>
One assumes they have been hired by Ubisoft for their innovative thinking.

> NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.
>
> I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
> sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
> sticker*.
>
Hee hee.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 17:19 UTC

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 5:15:50 AM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> >"They just don't get it," he said. "It's not an easy concept to
> >grasp."
> It's so easy to grasp that someone took the Bored Ape Yacht Club, turned
> the photos left to right, and sold them as an NFT and, for the time
> being, got away with it.
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/30/22860010/bored-ape-yacht-club-payc-phayc-copycat-nft
>
> NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.
>
> I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
> sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
> sticker*.

I think it's more like limited print runs with a certificate of authenticity.
At least the 'normal' NFTs as I've heard it explained, or indeed a limited
print run of 1 (but still not the original art.)

As them in games it sounds more like an unlimited print run with a
certificate of authenticity curated by a third party who only allows
authentic sales through their corporation that gives both themselves
and the originator a cut of any sales. While also leaving the original
in the hands of the originator.

I.e. you've just bought a certificate of authenticity to something you
don't actually have. This can apply to regular NFTs depending on how
they're being handled and if the original is physical or digital only as well.

In all cases where any sale original or aftermarket costs an exorbitant
amount of energy production and climate impact when taken as
a whole of the process.

I'm still failing to see the upside. Especially as many countries are
starting to ban cryptocurrency on the basis of climate impact (excuse
for other agendas or not.) Which may eventually extend to NFTs.

- Justisaur

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 18:02 UTC

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:19:53 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 5:15:50 AM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>> NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.

A lot of people understand NFTs. They're the ones warning you about
it. And that's the problem for the people pushing NFTs, because they
need a pliable, ignorant market for their wares.

>> I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
>> sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
>> sticker*.

>I think it's more like limited print runs with a certificate of authenticity.
>At least the 'normal' NFTs as I've heard it explained, or indeed a limited
>print run of 1 (but still not the original art.)

>As them in games it sounds more like an unlimited print run with a
>certificate of authenticity curated by a third party who only allows
>authentic sales through their corporation that gives both themselves
>and the originator a cut of any sales. While also leaving the original
>in the hands of the originator.

NFTs are speculative gambling on digital tokens that have no value in
and of themselves. They are the valuing a receipt of a purchase of
that same receipt using a computationally intensive (and energy
hungry) process which can be better performed using other less
resource-demanding methods. You get nothing of value with an NFT
purchase except the hope that you can sell it to someone else; it's a
pyramid scheme that depends on constantly suckering new people into
the scheme.

It's a privacy nightmare; for all of its purported anonymity,
eventually you have to connect it to the real world, at which point
the public nature of its transactions creates a very obvious trail to
you. It's a security nightmare, because it depends on accurate
information and code being input into the system from the start, and
honest mistakes or nefarious intent are all but impossible to reverse.

They are purpose-built for scammers because the tokens themselves are
merely pointers to the actual thing, and themselves contain no
guarantee of ownership, uniqueness, or even that the item you paid for
is actually there. It's a speculative purchase that you don't ever
dare spend (and no one dares to buy) because its value is too
volatile. Despite how proponents claim NFTs (and crypto-currency) will
revolutionize and democratize finance and art (and, well, everything)
the entire industry is increasingly (and by design) dominated by a
handful of big players; rather than overturn the existing system, it
just replaces the people at the top.

Those who are pushing NFTs are almost always those who have a big
financial incentive to getting new people into the system. Remember,
NFTs - and crypto-currency in general - are valueless by nature; their
only worth is if you can convince somebody else to pay you more for
your digital tokens than you paid for them. Without a constant influx
of new suckers, eventually the tokens circulate through the existing
community and the last guy in the chain ends up with a useless pointer
which by itself does nothing.

With many NFTs (I don't know the specifics of Ubisoft's Quartz), they
are used to prop up the crypto-currency bubble, because NFT creation
costs and transaction costs are paid in Ethereum. They want you to buy
into NFTs because - without you becoming the next sucker to buy their
useless thing - they're investment is valueless. You can't blindly
trust their appeals to the importance of NFTs because they stand to
profit by convincing you to join their community.

>I'm still failing to see the upside. Especially as many countries are
>starting to ban cryptocurrency on the basis of climate impact (excuse
>for other agendas or not.) Which may eventually extend to NFTs.

Except, perhaps, in a very few use-cases, there are none. There is
really nothing you can do with NFTs that can't be done with more
traditional services, and at far less cost in terms of security and
efficiency. It's a technofetishists idealized dream of a better world
through code (albeit substandard code) parasitized by late-stage
capitalism. They have no purpose in gaming and practically no purpose
anywhere else except in the hope that the people who got in on the
'ground floor' will make huge sums of money. For everyone and
everything else, NFTs and crypto-currency - by design - make things
worse.

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:30:29 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 19:30 UTC

On 1/30/2022 10:02 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:19:53 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
> <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 5:15:50 AM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>>> NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.
>
> A lot of people understand NFTs. They're the ones warning you about
> it. And that's the problem for the people pushing NFTs, because they
> need a pliable, ignorant market for their wares.
>
>>> I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
>>> sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
>>> sticker*.
>
>> I think it's more like limited print runs with a certificate of authenticity.
>> At least the 'normal' NFTs as I've heard it explained, or indeed a limited
>> print run of 1 (but still not the original art.)
>
>> As them in games it sounds more like an unlimited print run with a
>> certificate of authenticity curated by a third party who only allows
>> authentic sales through their corporation that gives both themselves
>> and the originator a cut of any sales. While also leaving the original
>> in the hands of the originator.
>
>
> NFTs are speculative gambling on digital tokens that have no value in
> and of themselves.

Short version: They are the web version of the Dutch Tulip Bulb
exchange. :D

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 22:27 UTC

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:30:29 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 1/30/2022 10:02 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>> NFTs are speculative gambling on digital tokens that have no value in
>> and of themselves.

>Short version: They are the web version of the Dutch Tulip Bulb
>exchange. :D

Well, if you want the short version. Never did see the need for such a
thing myself ;-)

Although I'd argue that NFTs and crytocurrencies are actually worse
than Holland's botanical bubble. Both are speculative markets, but the
people buying the tulip bulbs in the 1620s were just thinking about
how to enrich themselves. NFT/crypto "code is law" afficiandos want to
extend their paradigm to all aspects of society; everything should be
an NFT, regardless of how ridiculous or harmful to society that would
be. "Play-to-earn" is only the tip of their iceberg.

And - at the end of the day - at least the tulip farmers ended up with
a bunch of tulips that - if not as fantastically valuable as the
speculative market had claimed - still had some value. If nothing
else, you could plant them and have a nice garden. With NFTs, all you
get is a number embedded in a digital chain lurking ephermerally
somewhere out there in the Internet.

Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B

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Subject: Re: Ubisoft: Insert Foot-A into Mouth-B
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:12 UTC

On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-8, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 1/30/2022 10:02 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> > On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:19:53 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
> > <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 5:15:50 AM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 21:04:57 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> >>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> >
> >>> NOBODY understands NFTs, even the people who invented them.
> >
> > A lot of people understand NFTs. They're the ones warning you about
> > it. And that's the problem for the people pushing NFTs, because they
> > need a pliable, ignorant market for their wares.
> >
> >>> I currently describe it as putting a holographic, difficult to forge,
> >>> sticker on a back of a Picasso to authenticate it, and then *buying the
> >>> sticker*.
> >
> >> I think it's more like limited print runs with a certificate of authenticity.
> >> At least the 'normal' NFTs as I've heard it explained, or indeed a limited
> >> print run of 1 (but still not the original art.)
> >
> >> As them in games it sounds more like an unlimited print run with a
> >> certificate of authenticity curated by a third party who only allows
> >> authentic sales through their corporation that gives both themselves
> >> and the originator a cut of any sales. While also leaving the original
> >> in the hands of the originator.
> >
> >
> > NFTs are speculative gambling on digital tokens that have no value in
> > and of themselves.

That's the basis of all(most) all money (does anyone still use gold backed
currency?) these days. (Even then, while gold has some intrinsic use value,
it had little to none when it was popular as a currency.) The only difference
being that entire nations, and even the world population at large agrees
to that value, vs. just whoever's involved in crypto.

I can see the appeal of speculating/investing in it, but I'm morally opposed
due to the environmental impact and the personal impact in the cost
of video cards. Not that I have anything to invest anyway.

> Short version: They are the web version of the Dutch Tulip Bulb
> exchange. :D

Or diamonds and beanie-babies, and the housing market (again!) At least it's
better than diamonds in that it retained some value immediately after
acquisition.

- Justisaur

1
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