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tech / sci.logic / Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2

SubjectAuthor
* The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
+- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
`* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
 +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
 +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
 `* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  +* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  |+* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  ||`- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  |`* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  | +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  | +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  | `* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2immibis
  |  `* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  |   +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  |   `* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2immibis
  |    +* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  |    |+- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  |    |`* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2immibis
  |    | `* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  |    |  +* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2immibis
  |    |  |`* Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2olcott
  |    |  | +- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2immibis
  |    |  | `- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  |    |  `- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  |    `- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2Richard Damon
  `- Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2immibis

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Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2

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From: polco...@gmail.com (olcott)
Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory
Subject: Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 16:22:38 -0600
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 by: olcott - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 22:22 UTC

On 1/2/2024 2:29 PM, immibis wrote:
> On 1/2/24 19:23, olcott wrote:
>> On 1/2/2024 9:37 AM, immibis wrote:
>>> On 1/2/24 05:17, olcott wrote:
>>>> H and H1 are identical except that H1 is at a different machine
>>>> address.
>>>
>>> Turing machines don't have machine addresses
>>>
>>
>> They do have fixed integer state numbers, thus the same thing.
>>
>
> Turing machines don't know their own state number

That conventional Turing machines don't typically know their
own state number is not at all the same as no TM can possibly
ever know its own state number.

--
Copyright 2023 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2

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From: new...@immibis.com (immibis)
Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory
Subject: Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 01:14:27 +0100
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 by: immibis - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 00:14 UTC

On 1/4/24 23:22, olcott wrote:
> On 1/2/2024 2:29 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/2/24 19:23, olcott wrote:
>>> On 1/2/2024 9:37 AM, immibis wrote:
>>>> On 1/2/24 05:17, olcott wrote:
>>>>> H and H1 are identical except that H1 is at a different machine
>>>>> address.
>>>>
>>>> Turing machines don't have machine addresses
>>>>
>>>
>>> They do have fixed integer state numbers, thus the same thing.
>>>
>>
>> Turing machines don't know their own state number
>
> That conventional Turing machines don't typically know their
> own state number is not at all the same as no TM can possibly
> ever know its own state number.
>

If T and T1 are identical Turing machines except that T1 has different
state numbers, they always compute the same results.

Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2

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From: rich...@damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory
Subject: Re: The Halting problem is an incorrect question V2
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 19:34:54 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 00:34 UTC

On 1/4/24 5:22 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 1/2/2024 2:29 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/2/24 19:23, olcott wrote:
>>> On 1/2/2024 9:37 AM, immibis wrote:
>>>> On 1/2/24 05:17, olcott wrote:
>>>>> H and H1 are identical except that H1 is at a different machine
>>>>> address.
>>>>
>>>> Turing machines don't have machine addresses
>>>>
>>>
>>> They do have fixed integer state numbers, thus the same thing.
>>>
>>
>> Turing machines don't know their own state number
>
> That conventional Turing machines don't typically know their
> own state number is not at all the same as no TM can possibly
> ever know its own state number.
>

So, you just don't understand about Turing Machines.

They know what State they are in.

They CAN'T know how that state has been encoded in a given
representation, because the encoding doesn't affect them.

You proved this ignorance years ago.

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