I never considered this.
=================
(Just the beginning of the article)

The one surprising tech device you MUST replace after a breakup or
divorce - or your ex could spy on you

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12111895/The-one-
surprising-tech-device-replace-breakup-divorce.html

Experts warn people should wipe their routers when breaking up with a
lover

This is because the device stores confidential information about you

By Kim Komando For Dailymail.Com

Updated: 14:46 EDT, 22 May 2023

Tech researchers warn people going through a breakup need to be
mindful of a device that can let their ex-partner spy on them.

The internet router in the corner of your home stores confidential
and sensitive information about you, such as event timestamps, a log
of connected devices and visited website URLs that an outsider can
access.

Case in point: Recently, researchers bought 18 used routers and found
more than half contained confidential and sensitive intel from the
businesses that once used them.

On 5/22/2023 5:51 PM, harrison@invalid.com wrote:

> The internet router in the corner of your home stores confidential
> and sensitive information about you, such as event timestamps, a log
> of connected devices and visited website URLs that an outsider can
> access.

There is no requirement, for a routing function, to do any such thing.

Routing a packet, does not require scanning for porn or looking
for Holy Bible passages. The routing function can be done with
packet headers. That's the non-payload area of the packet.

*******

You have many options.

Take a combo modem/router you just got at the store.
Use the web interface. Change the router section to "Bridged Mode".
Plug *one* computer into the box. Now, there is no routing
function any more, just a modem function for your broadband.
The rest of it has been neutered.

Right now, that's how my combo modem/router is running. As a modem.
It's the first device in a chain of devices.

Paul

On Mon, 22 May 2023 21:13:03 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 5/22/2023 5:51 PM, harrison@invalid.com wrote:
>
>> The internet router in the corner of your home stores confidential
>> and sensitive information about you, such as event timestamps, a log
>> of connected devices and visited website URLs that an outsider can
>> access.
>
>There is no requirement, for a routing function, to do any such thing.
>
>Routing a packet, does not require scanning for porn or looking
>for Holy Bible passages. The routing function can be done with
>packet headers. That's the non-payload area of the packet.
>
>*******
>
>You have many options.
>
>Take a combo modem/router you just got at the store.
>Use the web interface. Change the router section to "Bridged Mode".
>Plug *one* computer into the box. Now, there is no routing
>function any more, just a modem function for your broadband.
>The rest of it has been neutered.
>
>Right now, that's how my combo modem/router is running. As a modem.
>It's the first device in a chain of devices.
>
> Paul

You are implying that Kim Komando, The Digital Goddess, is wrong?

On 5/22/2023 10:25 PM, sam@not-giggles.com wrote:

>
> You are implying that Kim Komando, The Digital Goddess, is wrong?

I haven't reviewed the Komando information.

I'm telling you that routing does not involve or require "shenanigans".
The basic routing function does not involved "recording porn or
looking for Holy Bible passages". Routing is mostly a mechanical
activity, and it involves packet headers.

Wait until Char shows up, and he can explain it to you.

Look, you can put anything "illegal" or "unethical" in
a silicon device you want. At work, we had hardware design
reviews, to ferret out misdeeds.

Even if you had analytics in a router (and a home router
doesn't really need this), a particular destination IP
does not imply intent. Since many home IP addresses are dynamic
and rebooting the destination router would cause the public
IP to change, you need to contact the destination ISP and
ask them "who had 11.22.33.44 at 9:13:22PM on Mar 3rd". And
this is normally information only available by legal procedure.
ISPs do not casually answer such requests, and front line staff
would not have access to it.

If a destination address and its user, used a static IP, then
that would be really dumb. And that's not the default. Static IPs
are good if you're running a server, and you don't want to use DynDNS.
Normally, ISPs don't allow the usage of servers on home accounts
(it would be in the TOS for home accounts).

Basically, the more money you spend on a home router, the more
likely it is to contain superfluous functions.

If you want, you can design your own router, out of readily available
component parts (desktop PC). Then, find a distro of routing software,
with a pared-down function set. Then you know exactly what it's doing,
because you compiled and build the image that runs the box. If the
media is read-only (a CD) and there are no storage devices in the
box at all, there's no place for information to be stored.

If your router has too much RAM and flash, you can install something like this.
Being careful to turn most of it "off".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenWrt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_%28firmware%29

Paul

On Tue, 23 May 2023 00:42:28 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 5/22/2023 10:25 PM, sam@not-giggles.com wrote:
>
>>
>> You are implying that Kim Komando, The Digital Goddess, is wrong?
>
>I haven't reviewed the Komando information.
>
>I'm telling you that routing does not involve or require "shenanigans".
>The basic routing function does not involved "recording porn or
>looking for Holy Bible passages". Routing is mostly a mechanical
>activity, and it involves packet headers.

Exactly. The consumer gear being discussed here just looks at layer 3,
the IP layer, in order to make a routing decision. Layer 2 and layers
4-7 are ignored.

I *think* what Komando is talking about is not the actual routing of
packets, but rather the potential logging that might be occurring. I
didn't look at the article, but that's what I think the deal is.

Long ago, in a galaxy far away, before consumer routers shipped with
passwords, I may have logged into a neighbor's router to take a look
around. Seems like it was a Netgear, but I'm not sure anymore. It had a
logging function where it kept track of the DNS responses, giving each
of them a timestamp. From that info, I could see that the single woman
who lived there was accessing a set of adult URLs during the late
evening hours on a near daily basis. No video or images at those links,
though, just stories.

Is that info actually compromising, though, to the extent that there'd
be a warning to clear it or do a full reset if your partner moves out?
Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, especially since no actual payload
data is included in the logs.

Interestingly, with the enterprise networking gear that I work with, I
can configure it to make routing decisions based on anything in the
packet, from layer 2 to layer 7, but consumer gear doesn't have that
capability, that I've ever seen.

On 5/22/2023 2:51 PM, harrison@invalid.com wrote:
> I never considered this.
> =================
> (Just the beginning of the article)
>
> The one surprising tech device you MUST replace after a breakup or
> divorce - or your ex could spy on you
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12111895/The-one-
> surprising-tech-device-replace-breakup-divorce.html
>
> Experts warn people should wipe their routers when breaking up with a
> lover
>
> This is because the device stores confidential information about you
>
> By Kim Komando For Dailymail.Com
>
> Updated: 14:46 EDT, 22 May 2023
>
> Tech researchers warn people going through a breakup need to be
> mindful of a device that can let their ex-partner spy on them.
>
> The internet router in the corner of your home stores confidential
> and sensitive information about you, such as event timestamps, a log
> of connected devices and visited website URLs that an outsider can
> access.
>
> Case in point: Recently, researchers bought 18 used routers and found
> more than half contained confidential and sensitive intel from the
> businesses that once used them.
>
>

I just checked both my modem and my router.

The modem's log contains reports of "events". There are no URIs or IP
addresseses.

The router's log contains a list of connections to my PC and to the
router. There are no URIs. The only IP addresses are local (e.g.,
192.168.1.4).

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat, Impossible Meat, and other such meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods, which my doctor
told me to avoid. Real meat is natural. Beyond Meat and
Impossible Meat are definitely not natural.

On Tue, 23 May 2023 07:51:54 -0700, "David E. Ross"
<nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>On 5/22/2023 2:51 PM, harrison@invalid.com wrote:
>> I never considered this.
>> =================
>> (Just the beginning of the article)
>>
>> The one surprising tech device you MUST replace after a breakup or
>> divorce - or your ex could spy on you
>>
>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12111895/The-one-
>> surprising-tech-device-replace-breakup-divorce.html
>>
>> Experts warn people should wipe their routers when breaking up with a
>> lover
>>
>> This is because the device stores confidential information about you
>>
>> By Kim Komando For Dailymail.Com
>>
>> Updated: 14:46 EDT, 22 May 2023
>>
>> Tech researchers warn people going through a breakup need to be
>> mindful of a device that can let their ex-partner spy on them.

I'm skeptical.

>> The internet router in the corner of your home stores confidential
>> and sensitive information about you, such as event timestamps, a log
>> of connected devices and visited website URLs

None of those things seem very confidential.

>that an outsider can access.

WAN access to the router is nearly always disabled by default, so that
leaves LAN access, which can be mitigated by changing the WIFi password.

>> Case in point: Recently, researchers bought 18 used routers and found
>> more than half contained confidential and sensitive intel from the
>> businesses that once used them.

So now they've switched from home routers to business routers. Logging
capabilities typically differ greatly between the two, but having said
that, most businesses tend to disable local logging (in the device
itself) in favor of a centralized syslog server that collects logging
events from multiple network elements.

>I just checked both my modem and my router.
>
>The modem's log contains reports of "events". There are no URIs or IP
>addresseses.
>
>The router's log contains a list of connections to my PC and to the
>router. There are no URIs. The only IP addresses are local (e.g.,
>192.168.1.4).

That's a good example of "nothing to see here". If I had to guess, I'd
guess that the article that spawned this discussion is primarily click
bait.

In article <a1qo6i12kfsluk7u687jm7gdjceo0p6p5e@4ax.com>
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 23 May 2023 00:42:28 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 5/22/2023 10:25 PM, sam@not-giggles.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> You are implying that Kim Komando, The Digital Goddess, is wrong?
> >
> >I haven't reviewed the Komando information.
> >
> >I'm telling you that routing does not involve or require "shenanigans".
> >The basic routing function does not involved "recording porn or
> >looking for Holy Bible passages". Routing is mostly a mechanical
> >activity, and it involves packet headers.
>
> Exactly. The consumer gear being discussed here just looks at layer 3,
> the IP layer, in order to make a routing decision. Layer 2 and layers
> 4-7 are ignored.
>
> I *think* what Komando is talking about is not the actual routing of
> packets, but rather the potential logging that might be occurring. I
> didn't look at the article, but that's what I think the deal is.
>
> Long ago, in a galaxy far away, before consumer routers shipped with
> passwords, I may have logged into a neighbor's router to take a look
> around. Seems like it was a Netgear, but I'm not sure anymore. It had a
> logging function where it kept track of the DNS responses, giving each
> of them a timestamp. From that info, I could see that the single woman
> who lived there was accessing a set of adult URLs during the late
> evening hours on a near daily basis. No video or images at those links,
> though, just stories.

I inadvertently saw the same thing with my neighbors quite a few
years ago. That's why I ditched Wi-Fi for wired.

On Tue, 23 May 2023 13:19:29 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 23 May 2023 07:51:54 -0700, "David E. Ross"
> <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I just checked both my modem and my router.
>>
>>The modem's log contains reports of "events". There are no URIs or IP
>>addresseses.
>>
>>The router's log contains a list of connections to my PC and to the
>>router. There are no URIs. The only IP addresses are local (e.g.,
>>192.168.1.4).
>
> That's a good example of "nothing to see here". If I had to guess, I'd
> guess that the article that spawned this discussion is primarily click
> bait.

Even if a router have a HTTP log feature, it can only see URLs of unsecured
HTTP connections. There's no way it can see the URLs of secure HTTP or
HTTPS.

Moreover, there's no more site which hold important users' information,
still use unsecured HTTP.

On Mon, 22 May 2023 23:51:47 +0200 (CEST), harrison@invalid.com wrote:
> I never considered this.
> =================
> (Just the beginning of the article)
>
> The one surprising tech device you MUST replace after a breakup or
> divorce - or your ex could spy on you
>
> https://<censored>
[SNIP]

DailyMail is known to Reddit community for spreading fake news.

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote in
news:a1qo6i12kfsluk7u687jm7gdjceo0p6p5e@4ax.com:

> Interestingly, with the enterprise networking gear that I
> work with, I can configure it to make routing decisions
> based on anything in the packet, from layer 2 to layer 7,
> but consumer gear doesn't have that capability, that I've
> ever seen.

Mikrotik gear can do so.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 02:17:21 +0000, DanS
<t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote in
>news:a1qo6i12kfsluk7u687jm7gdjceo0p6p5e@4ax.com:
>
>> Interestingly, with the enterprise networking gear that I
>> work with, I can configure it to make routing decisions
>> based on anything in the packet, from layer 2 to layer 7,
>> but consumer gear doesn't have that capability, that I've
>> ever seen.
>
>Mikrotik gear can do so.

Good to know, thanks.