I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
boot.
.. Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
you can find sucks etc.
The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
from that thumb drive.
The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like
to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
from the install CD.
The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
drive.
Pretty simple the next time ;)

On 5/25/2023 1:40 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
> The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
> have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
> for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
> I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
> boot.
> . Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
> several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
> you can find sucks etc.
> The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
> drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
> from that thumb drive.
> The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
> never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like
> to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
> from the install CD.
> The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
> will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
> drive.
> Pretty simple the next time ;)
>

Well, calling them USB3 ports is giving them a bad name :-)

They're XHCI ports, requiring an XHCI driver.

They have wires for both USB2 and USB3. Even if you snipped off
the USB3 wires and pretended it was a USB2 port (which is a normal practice),
the port remains XHCI.

An XHCI driver needs to be added (sorta like slipstreaming), so
that the OS can find the port in question.

You could try a wireless keyboard with a certain type of nanoradio
module. Logitech switched devices some time ago, as far as I know,
so new products likely don't ship with this device.

Logitech Unifying dongle (model C-U0007, Nordic Semiconductor based)

( https://www.bettercap.org/modules/hid/ )

Some motherboards had a designated USB port, which on the chipset
was intended to be a "debug port for the lab" or so, but could
also be used as a production feature. There may have been a
setting related to this on the "USB BIOS" page. This would be a
setting, which in the past, would not have been on that BIOS page.

There were PS/2 to USB adapter cables, but that does not get
around the XHCI problem particularly. One version of that
solution, even came loaded on a PCI card for some reason. But
these are items that not even the Smithsonian has.

You might also get around it, by stuffing a PCI card with NEC USB2
chipset on it. This would not work at BIOS level (you could not tap
<del> and enter the BIOS), but on the other hand, it might work for
the duration of a Windows 7 installation. Once the install was
finished, you could install the XHCI driver that was missing, then
shut down and unplug the PCI NEC USB2 card. In my own junk room,
I have a USB 1.1 PCI card that would fit the bill. Trouble is though,
the newest computer here, has no PCI slots, which is one of my
biggest regrets when it comes to trickery. (I can't use my FX5200 PCI
card on it, and the other FX5200 are AGP ones.)

Paul

In message <3srt6i9s7iagrg9si8lo8dit9ak3msnauq@4ax.com> at Thu, 25 May
2023 01:40:31, gfretwell@aol.com writes
>I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
>The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
>have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
>for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
>I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
>boot.
>. Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
>several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
>you can find sucks etc.
>The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
>drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
>from that thumb drive.
>The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
>never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like

From the command line on the affected computer? Meaning the keyboard was
working in command line?!?

>to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
>from the install CD.
>The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
>will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
>drive.
>Pretty simple the next time ;)

Certainly, a warning for all of us, thanks!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm the oldest woman on primetime not baking cakes.
- Anne Robinson, RT 2015/8/15-21

On Thu, 25 May 2023 02:55:12 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 1:40 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
>> The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
>> have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
>> for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
>> I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
>> boot.
>> . Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
>> several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
>> you can find sucks etc.
>> The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
>> drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
>> from that thumb drive.
>> The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
>> never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like
>> to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
>> from the install CD.
>> The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
>> will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
>> drive.
>> Pretty simple the next time ;)
>>
>
>Well, calling them USB3 ports is giving them a bad name :-)
>
>They're XHCI ports, requiring an XHCI driver.
>
>They have wires for both USB2 and USB3. Even if you snipped off
>the USB3 wires and pretended it was a USB2 port (which is a normal practice),
>the port remains XHCI.
>
>An XHCI driver needs to be added (sorta like slipstreaming), so
>that the OS can find the port in question.
>
>You could try a wireless keyboard with a certain type of nanoradio
>module. Logitech switched devices some time ago, as far as I know,
>so new products likely don't ship with this device.
>
> Logitech Unifying dongle (model C-U0007, Nordic Semiconductor based)
>
> ( https://www.bettercap.org/modules/hid/ )
>
>Some motherboards had a designated USB port, which on the chipset
>was intended to be a "debug port for the lab" or so, but could
>also be used as a production feature. There may have been a
>setting related to this on the "USB BIOS" page. This would be a
>setting, which in the past, would not have been on that BIOS page.
>
>There were PS/2 to USB adapter cables, but that does not get
>around the XHCI problem particularly. One version of that
>solution, even came loaded on a PCI card for some reason. But
>these are items that not even the Smithsonian has.
>
>You might also get around it, by stuffing a PCI card with NEC USB2
>chipset on it. This would not work at BIOS level (you could not tap
><del> and enter the BIOS), but on the other hand, it might work for
>the duration of a Windows 7 installation. Once the install was
>finished, you could install the XHCI driver that was missing, then
>shut down and unplug the PCI NEC USB2 card. In my own junk room,
>I have a USB 1.1 PCI card that would fit the bill. Trouble is though,
>the newest computer here, has no PCI slots, which is one of my
>biggest regrets when it comes to trickery. (I can't use my FX5200 PCI
>card on it, and the other FX5200 are AGP ones.)
>
> Paul

This is a mini like you see stuck to the back of a terminal at the
doctor's office. There is only one "express" slot and no room in the
case to actually use it. HP says all ports are USB3 (XCHI). the BIOS
has no problem with the ports but W7 couldn't see them without the
driver. At first I only modified boot.wim to see if I was on the right
track and it got all the way up to "booting windows for the first
time" and failed. Then I added the drivers to install.wim and it came
up OK. I never could get the MS USB/DVD program to work. It just put
the ISO out there and that wasn't any help. Using DISKPART was the
real answer along with DISM.EXE to slip the drivers into the wim and
copying the whole install CD with the altered wims onto the thumb
drive.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 08:31:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <3srt6i9s7iagrg9si8lo8dit9ak3msnauq@4ax.com> at Thu, 25 May
>2023 01:40:31, gfretwell@aol.com writes
>>I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
>>The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
>>have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
>>for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
>>I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
>>boot.
>>. Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
>>several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
>>you can find sucks etc.
>>The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
>>drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
>>from that thumb drive.
>>The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
>>never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like
>
> From the command line on the affected computer? Meaning the keyboard was
>working in command line?!?
>
I used another machine to build the bootable thumb drive. Once you got
out of BIOS the mouse and keyboard were unavailable.

>>to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
>>from the install CD.
>>The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
>>will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
>>drive.
>>Pretty simple the next time ;)
>
>Certainly, a warning for all of us, thanks!

I found a couple of sites on the net that were useful. The rest just
pushed me farther down the rabbit hole. Identifying the original
problem was a big step. To make things worse, the W10 drive shipped
with this machine was bad too (hung up on boot) and I never
investigated that further.
I suspect when HP talks about running 7 on this thing in the manual,
they must be building the disk on another machine since these things
are really aimed at institutional users. When 7 was a thing HP
probably had a distribution disk for it with all the drivers on board
like Dell does.
The thing was free to me and sat around a real long time before I did
anything with it. I had ordered it as a W7 machine and it came in with
10. They said they couldn't load 7 on it and now I know why. They just
sent me another similar machine with 7 and didn't ask me to send this
one back. It sat here packed up to ship for months in case they
changed their mind. Then we had the hurricane and 4 feet of water in
my house and I have been pretty busy since then. I did ask you folks
here about 7 drivers a while ago and one of our regular wizards sent
me a link (HP says it was 10/11 only now). This past weekend I finally
unboxed it and turned it on. When 10 failed to boot I started a 7
load.

On 5/26/2023 12:01 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 08:31:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <3srt6i9s7iagrg9si8lo8dit9ak3msnauq@4ax.com> at Thu, 25 May
>> 2023 01:40:31, gfretwell@aol.com writes
>>> I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
>>> The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
>>> have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
>>> for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
>>> I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
>>> boot.
>>> . Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
>>> several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
>>> you can find sucks etc.
>>> The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
>>> drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
>> >from that thumb drive.
>>> The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
>>> never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like
>>
>> From the command line on the affected computer? Meaning the keyboard was
>> working in command line?!?
>>
> I used another machine to build the bootable thumb drive. Once you got
> out of BIOS the mouse and keyboard were unavailable.
>
>>> to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
>> >from the install CD.
>>> The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
>>> will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
>>> drive.
>>> Pretty simple the next time ;)
>>
>> Certainly, a warning for all of us, thanks!
>
> I found a couple of sites on the net that were useful. The rest just
> pushed me farther down the rabbit hole. Identifying the original
> problem was a big step. To make things worse, the W10 drive shipped
> with this machine was bad too (hung up on boot) and I never
> investigated that further.
> I suspect when HP talks about running 7 on this thing in the manual,
> they must be building the disk on another machine since these things
> are really aimed at institutional users. When 7 was a thing HP
> probably had a distribution disk for it with all the drivers on board
> like Dell does.
>
> The thing was free to me and sat around a real long time before I did
> anything with it. I had ordered it as a W7 machine and it came in with
> 10. They said they couldn't load 7 on it and now I know why. They just
> sent me another similar machine with 7 and didn't ask me to send this
> one back. It sat here packed up to ship for months in case they
> changed their mind. Then we had the hurricane and 4 feet of water in
> my house and I have been pretty busy since then. I did ask you folks
> here about 7 drivers a while ago and one of our regular wizards sent
> me a link (HP says it was 10/11 only now). This past weekend I finally
> unboxed it and turned it on. When 10 failed to boot I started a 7
> load.

They didn't put Windows 7 on it, because legally they could not.
This is a licensing term for the OS. A drop dead date. A refurb SKU
has different licensing terms than your other OSes of the past.

And "legally" only refers to big companies making mistakes.
You could find an Ebay seller shipping Win7 on an item,
and the Ebay seller does not care.

The XHCI issue is a really big deal, when Intel won't give you
a Win7 ready driver. That's generally what kills really new hardware,
is the lack of CPU/chipset manufacturer support. As long as you have
the items in hand, before the purchase, you'd be in better shape.

One of the reasons you don't buy small computers, is a lack of
expansion slots to "fix stuff". When a manufacturer strips a
machine down to nothingness, they know *exactly* what they're doing.

Paul

On Fri, 26 May 2023 02:44:11 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 5/26/2023 12:01 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 May 2023 08:31:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <3srt6i9s7iagrg9si8lo8dit9ak3msnauq@4ax.com> at Thu, 25 May
>>> 2023 01:40:31, gfretwell@aol.com writes
>>>> I had a grueling day or two on this off and on.
>>>> The symptom is the install stops at the language screen because you
>>>> have no Kbd or Mouse. The machine didn't freeze. It is just waiting
>>>> for an answer that isn't coming. That took a minute to figure out.
>>>> I also tried a working drive from another system and it crashed on
>>>> boot.
>>>> . Regular setup won't work because you don't have and HIDs. There are
>>>> several ways listed on the net and some simply don't work. Software
>>>> you can find sucks etc.
>>>> The basic process is you write the install files on a bootable thumb
>>>> drive. Slip the drivers into the Boot.wim and install.wim and load it
>>> >from that thumb drive.
>>>> The first problem I had was finding a copy of the W7 DVC/USB writer. I
>>>> never did get one that worked so I used DISKPART from the command like
>>>
>>> From the command line on the affected computer? Meaning the keyboard was
>>> working in command line?!?
>>>
>> I used another machine to build the bootable thumb drive. Once you got
>> out of BIOS the mouse and keyboard were unavailable.
>>
>>>> to write the boot sector and copied the install files on the drive
>>> >from the install CD.
>>>> The next trick is finding the DISM program but it is out there. That
>>>> will let you alter the 2 WIM files, then write them back to the thumb
>>>> drive.
>>>> Pretty simple the next time ;)
>>>
>>> Certainly, a warning for all of us, thanks!
>>
>> I found a couple of sites on the net that were useful. The rest just
>> pushed me farther down the rabbit hole. Identifying the original
>> problem was a big step. To make things worse, the W10 drive shipped
>> with this machine was bad too (hung up on boot) and I never
>> investigated that further.
>> I suspect when HP talks about running 7 on this thing in the manual,
>> they must be building the disk on another machine since these things
>> are really aimed at institutional users. When 7 was a thing HP
>> probably had a distribution disk for it with all the drivers on board
>> like Dell does.
>>
>> The thing was free to me and sat around a real long time before I did
>> anything with it. I had ordered it as a W7 machine and it came in with
>> 10. They said they couldn't load 7 on it and now I know why. They just
>> sent me another similar machine with 7 and didn't ask me to send this
>> one back. It sat here packed up to ship for months in case they
>> changed their mind. Then we had the hurricane and 4 feet of water in
>> my house and I have been pretty busy since then. I did ask you folks
>> here about 7 drivers a while ago and one of our regular wizards sent
>> me a link (HP says it was 10/11 only now). This past weekend I finally
>> unboxed it and turned it on. When 10 failed to boot I started a 7
>> load.
>
>They didn't put Windows 7 on it, because legally they could not.
>This is a licensing term for the OS. A drop dead date. A refurb SKU
>has different licensing terms than your other OSes of the past.
>
>And "legally" only refers to big companies making mistakes.
>You could find an Ebay seller shipping Win7 on an item,
>and the Ebay seller does not care.
>
>The XHCI issue is a really big deal, when Intel won't give you
>a Win7 ready driver. That's generally what kills really new hardware,
>is the lack of CPU/chipset manufacturer support. As long as you have
>the items in hand, before the purchase, you'd be in better shape.
>
>One of the reasons you don't buy small computers, is a lack of
>expansion slots to "fix stuff". When a manufacturer strips a
>machine down to nothingness, they know *exactly* what they're doing.
>
> Paul

This was an Ebay shipper but I suspect he did have some kind of OEM
disk setup. (legal or not) He had no problem sending me 2 W/7 desk top
machines on our first deal and the next time when I wanted this mini
he said he could, then when it came in Win 10 he said 7 wouldn't work
on it. Now I understand his problem. The HP site did have the driver
package, I just couldn't navigate to it. One of the guys here gave me
the link.
This is just going to be a jukebox machine so for what I need it is
perfect.
I will be running it from a numeric pad until I can get my submerged
Seeburg 3/W1 working

I will just use an old USB keyboard card this time instead of the PS/2
one I was using until it got wet.

https://gfretwell.com/ftp/judybar.jpg

I am running a DOS MP3 player that was rewritten to run 32 bit for a
Windows OS. (MPXPLAY). It is not "installed". It runs straight from
the EXE.
It is still the only MP3 player I have found that lets you select
songs by number from a keyboard instead navigating with a mouse. or
screwing with a touch display I have been running this since about
1999, starting in my cars where I didn't even have a monitor, just a
num pad. I was running DOS 6.3 in the car and with the right BIOS it
could go from key on to music in less than 10 seconds. The in dash
units I have been using since they became available take longer with
less functionality. I just ran out of P1 socket 7 boards that worked.
Newer machines don't handle being parked in the sun all day.
Starting up at 140F seems to be a problem for them.

I do want to thank you and the few other regulars here who really know
this stuff. I was just trying to pay something forward with what I
learned on this quest.