Yrrah wrote:

>> Supposedly the Waterfox browser doesn't phone telemetry home.
>
> In case you didn't know, Waterfox is owned by an advertising company.

Guilt by association?

There's nothing wrong with that fact, which I'll assume is true, a priori.

But do we have any actual evidence that Waterfox does phone telemetry home?
--
A key difference between an educated and uneducated person is that the
educated person makes assessments based on the actual facts of the matter.

On 2022-03-21 10:19 p.m., Big Al wrote:
> On 3/21/22 23:02, this is what Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Supposedly the Waterfox browser doesn't phone telemetry home.
>> (It doesn't even contain the telemetry switches that Firefox does).
>>
>> And supposedly Waterfox doesn't have the unique token ID that Firefox
>> has.
>>
>> With that in mind, and given I've tested _all_ the known freeware
>> browsers,
>> I tried the latest WaterFox installer located here today:
>> <https://cdn.waterfox.net/releases/win64/installer/>
>>
>> But it failed to open on a current version of Windows 10 Pro.
>> <https://cdn.waterfox.net/releases/win64/installer/Waterfox%20G4.0.8%20Setup.exe>
>>
>> Name: Waterfox G4.0.8 Setup.exe
>> Size: 66868640 bytes (63 MiB)
>> SHA256: 76B964ECCED62345E831AA6F3BFCA1C92CF8E792D2E2779EDC8BDCB6C92DFD95
>>
>> I then tried the penultimate WaterFox installer dated 14-Feb-2022 11:44
>> <https://cdn.waterfox.net/releases/win64/installer/Waterfox%20G4.0.7%20Setup.exe>
>>
>> Name: Waterfox G4.0.7 Setup.exe
>> Size: 67049208 bytes (63 MiB)
>> SHA256: 4E8B32FDEBFF4AF284C20D2EED58BFBB61C88C34B7F3895F887EB2E32218AB72
>> Same thing. No matter how many times I doubleclicked, it wouldn't launch.
>>
>> Then I tried the one before that.
>> <https://cdn.waterfox.net/releases/win64/installer/Waterfox%20G4.0.6%20Setup.exe>
>>
>> Name: Waterfox G4.0.7 Setup.exe
>> Size: 67049208 bytes (63 MiB)
>> SHA256: 4E8B32FDEBFF4AF284C20D2EED58BFBB61C88C34B7F3895F887EB2E32218AB72
>>
>> Frustrated, I went to my USB stick software archives and pulled out
>> Date: 20200818
>> Name: Waterfox Current 2020.07.2.1 Setup.exe
>> Size: 50005152 bytes (47 MiB)
>> SHA256: 4AD44E410906F4B4AE28988BBC9FB6E8057D8D2FCCFC3E329F57CD0F5FEA2A1C
>>
>> That came up with a warning:
>> "You've launched an older version of Firefox"
>> "Using an older version of Firefox can corrupt bookmarks and browsing
>>   history already saved to an existing Firefox profile. To protect your
>>   information, create a new profile for this installation of Waterfox."
>> And then it tried to phone home but I had the killswitch on so it
>> couldn't
>> <https://www.waterfox.net/blog/waterfox-2020.07.2.1-release/?new>
>>
>> At that point it wanted to update (of course) so I let it update.
>> Now it says it's "Waterfox G3.1.1.1 (64-bit) based on Gecko 78.8.0
>>
>> And it went to this location: <https://www.waterfox.net/blog/>
>> Which says:
>> "An Update on Waterfox Classic, October 28, 2021
>> Since Waterfox Classic and Waterfox Current (now G4) diverged, they
>> have both have separate goals.
>>
>> G4 has its eyes set to the future - a modern browser, focusing on
>> modern web compatibility without sacrificing speed, or the balance of
>> privacy and usability.
>>
>> Classic has focused on keeping the tried but tested available.
>> Unfortunately, due to the rapid nature that the web is now expanding at,
>> keeping Classic up to date with that is difficult."
>>
>> This is all so confusing but I can confirm this version of Waterfox
>> works.
>>
>> Have you had a similar experience with the latest version of Waterfox?
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/XNdPgMbQ/waterfox01.jpg> version G3.2.5 up to date
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/4x17HqSQ/waterfox02.jpg> latest version fails
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/HxH7DTTd/waterfox03.jpg> penultimate version fails
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/Nf43cDYX/waterfox04.jpg> G3.1.1.1 version launches
>
> I have G4.0.8 64 bit and love it.  Works with my css files, and a few
> browser add-ons.  I use sync for bookmarks and settings and Firefox and
> Waterfox both keep up to date with each other.
> PS. I run Linux not Windows.

Thanks Big Al, now that I have G4.0.8 running properly I decided to try
this Sync feature, Great, both syncing fine, now whichever browser I
use I have my latest bookmarks.

Rene

"Yrrah" <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> wrote

| In case you didn't know, Waterfox is owned by an advertising company.
| Interesting. Here's the explanation from the original
developer.

https://www.waterfox.net/blog/waterfox-has-joined-system1/

It sounds a lot like Firefox. They've got a sleazeball company
providing search. But it's OSS. And supposedly the telemetry
is removed. I haven't noticed it trying to call home, but I'm not
certain.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:19:35 -0400
"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> "Yrrah" <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> wrote
>
> | In case you didn't know, Waterfox is owned by an advertising
> company. |
> Interesting. Here's the explanation from the original
> developer.
>
> https://www.waterfox.net/blog/waterfox-has-joined-system1/
>
> It sounds a lot like Firefox. They've got a sleazeball company
> providing search. But it's OSS. And supposedly the telemetry
> is removed. I haven't noticed it trying to call home, but I'm not
> certain.
>
>

Waterfox does call home. Mozilla is its home.

When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.

I just installed Opensnitch outgoing firewall. The only thing I don't
like about it, is if you don't click Deny or Allow in 15 seconds it
automatically denies the connection.

The first time I used it I didn't click on allow when I started
Waterfox, and was then unable to use it. I uninstalled the firewall,
restarted the computer, and then reinstalled the firewall, this time I
allowed Waterfox.

I went to Opensnitch's homepage and found the solution to this problem
is to go to settings in the Opensnitch GUI, and allow all connections
forever. That way you can just monitor what is connections are being
made from your computer.

The young man that created Waterfox did so to compete with Google.
Looks like he sold out.

On 3/23/22 5:43 PM, Johnny wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:19:35 -0400
> "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
>> "Yrrah" <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> wrote
>>
>> | In case you didn't know, Waterfox is owned by an advertising
>> company. |
>> Interesting. Here's the explanation from the original
>> developer.
>>
>> https://www.waterfox.net/blog/waterfox-has-joined-system1/
>>
>> It sounds a lot like Firefox. They've got a sleazeball company
>> providing search. But it's OSS. And supposedly the telemetry
>> is removed. I haven't noticed it trying to call home, but I'm not
>> certain.
>>
>>
> Waterfox does call home. Mozilla is its home.
>
> When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
>
>
> I just installed Opensnitch outgoing firewall. The only thing I don't
> like about it, is if you don't click Deny or Allow in 15 seconds it
> automatically denies the connection.
>
> The first time I used it I didn't click on allow when I started
> Waterfox, and was then unable to use it. I uninstalled the firewall,
> restarted the computer, and then reinstalled the firewall, this time I
> allowed Waterfox.
>
> I went to Opensnitch's homepage and found the solution to this problem
> is to go to settings in the Opensnitch GUI, and allow all connections
> forever. That way you can just monitor what is connections are being
> made from your computer.
>
> The young man that created Waterfox did so to compete with Google.
> Looks like he sold out.
>
>
>
>
Did you do all this in Linux?

It would have been so nice if you told us more about this opensnitch,
maybe a link to explain.

And while I while I pass the time I like to listen to music.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:57:52 -0400
Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:

> On 3/23/22 5:43 PM, Johnny wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:19:35 -0400
> > "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >
> >> "Yrrah" <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> wrote
> >>
> >> | In case you didn't know, Waterfox is owned by an advertising
> >> company. |
> >> Interesting. Here's the explanation from the original
> >> developer.
> >>
> >> https://www.waterfox.net/blog/waterfox-has-joined-system1/
> >>
> >> It sounds a lot like Firefox. They've got a sleazeball company
> >> providing search. But it's OSS. And supposedly the telemetry
> >> is removed. I haven't noticed it trying to call home, but I'm not
> >> certain.
> >>
> >>
> > Waterfox does call home. Mozilla is its home.
> >
> > When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
> >
> >
> > I just installed Opensnitch outgoing firewall. The only thing I
> > don't like about it, is if you don't click Deny or Allow in 15
> > seconds it automatically denies the connection.
> >
> > The first time I used it I didn't click on allow when I started
> > Waterfox, and was then unable to use it. I uninstalled the
> > firewall, restarted the computer, and then reinstalled the
> > firewall, this time I allowed Waterfox.
> >
> > I went to Opensnitch's homepage and found the solution to this
> > problem is to go to settings in the Opensnitch GUI, and allow all
> > connections forever. That way you can just monitor what is
> > connections are being made from your computer.
> >
> > The young man that created Waterfox did so to compete with Google.
> > Looks like he sold out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Did you do all this in Linux?
>
> It would have been so nice if you told us more about this opensnitch,
> maybe a link to explain.

https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch/wiki/Getting-started

>
> And while I while I pass the time I like to listen to music.
>
>

I you use VLC media player, it also calls home.

"Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote

| Waterfox does call home. Mozilla is its home.
| | When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
|

I'll have to do some more experimenting. But I don't
understand what you mean that Google "starts". Google
what? Nor do I allow push anything. Are you perhaps
allowing it to use Google search and load a homepage?

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:21:43 -0400
"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> "Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote
>
> | Waterfox does call home. Mozilla is its home.
> |
> | When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
> |
>
> I'll have to do some more experimenting. But I don't
> understand what you mean that Google "starts". Google
> what? Nor do I allow push anything. Are you perhaps
> allowing it to use Google search and load a homepage?
>
>

I use DuckDuckgo. When Water starts, Google wants to connect, Google
Fonts and Google Images also want a connection.

On 3/23/22 6:09 PM, Johnny wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:57:52 -0400
> Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/23/22 5:43 PM, Johnny wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:19:35 -0400
>>> "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Yrrah" <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | In case you didn't know, Waterfox is owned by an advertising
>>>> company. |
>>>> Interesting. Here's the explanation from the original
>>>> developer.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.waterfox.net/blog/waterfox-has-joined-system1/
>>>>
>>>> It sounds a lot like Firefox. They've got a sleazeball company
>>>> providing search. But it's OSS. And supposedly the telemetry
>>>> is removed. I haven't noticed it trying to call home, but I'm not
>>>> certain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Waterfox does call home. Mozilla is its home.
>>>
>>> When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just installed Opensnitch outgoing firewall. The only thing I
>>> don't like about it, is if you don't click Deny or Allow in 15
>>> seconds it automatically denies the connection.
>>>
>>> The first time I used it I didn't click on allow when I started
>>> Waterfox, and was then unable to use it. I uninstalled the
>>> firewall, restarted the computer, and then reinstalled the
>>> firewall, this time I allowed Waterfox.
>>>
>>> I went to Opensnitch's homepage and found the solution to this
>>> problem is to go to settings in the Opensnitch GUI, and allow all
>>> connections forever. That way you can just monitor what is
>>> connections are being made from your computer.
>>>
>>> The young man that created Waterfox did so to compete with Google.
>>> Looks like he sold out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Did you do all this in Linux?
>>
>> It would have been so nice if you told us more about this opensnitch,
>> maybe a link to explain.
> https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch/wiki/Getting-started
>
>> And while I while I pass the time I like to listen to music.
>>
>>
> I you use VLC media player, it also calls home.
>
Than you are not too bright.

Tell me are you all vaxxed up?

How does a women make a living in the 21st century?

Hey Big Spender, the voice of Peggy Lee aka *Norma Deloris Egstrom* (May
26, 1920 – January 21, 2002)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3MamvKeOvg

Now get back to those important freeware questions.

"Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote

| I use DuckDuckgo. When Water starts, Google wants to connect, Google
| Fonts and Google Images also want a connection.
|

That sounds like inbound, unless you've actually
installed Google software. Google fonts are linked in a lot
of webpages. I block them with HOSTS file, as well as
blocking font downloads in general.

Andy Burnelli wrote:
> John C. wrote:
>
>> Mine says (copied and pasted):
>
> I saw that too but I think you didn't do what Paul said he did it seems.
> It's obvious to all Paul left out a few steps but he showed the end result.
> With Paul's starting and ending point you can easily figure out what he
> did.
> Please do this one penultimate step before you conclude your final results:
>   <about:telemetry#environment-data-tab_settings_search=dl>

Copied and pasted from that link on my system in Firefox (I added the
lines though):
__________________________________________________________________
Sorry! There is currently no data available in “Environment Data”
__________________________________________________________________

--
John C. BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, pirated,
share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares for me please. I filter out
posts made from Google Groups and cross-posted (sent to more than one
newsgroup at a time) messages. I recommend you do likewise.

John C. wrote:

>> Please do this one penultimate step before you conclude your final results:
>> � <about:telemetry#environment-data-tab_settings_search=dl>
>
> Copied and pasted from that link on my system in Firefox (I added the
> lines though):
> Sorry! There is currently no data available in 'Environment Data'

I've seen that exact line with Waterfox when using Paul's test URI:
<about:telemetry#environment-data-tab_settings_search=dl>]
But not with Firefox (which reports the environment settings with "dl").

Funnily enough though I haven't seen that with Firefox (just with Waterfox).
Waterfox says "Sorry! There is currently no data available in 'Environment Data'"
SeaMonkey says "Telemetry is disabled and extended telemetry is disabled."
PaleMoon gives an entire page of information (too numerous to copy & paste).
IceWeasel says "The URL is not valid and cannot be loaded."
etc.

In contrast, most of my score of web browsers are chromium based, which say:
"The webpage at chrome://telemetry/#environment-data-tab_settings_search=dl
might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web
address."
--
A key difference between an educated and uneducated person is that the
educated person makes assessments based on the actual facts of the matter.

On 3/24/2022 4:59 AM, John C. wrote:
> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> John C. wrote:
>>
>>> Mine says (copied and pasted):
>>
>> I saw that too but I think you didn't do what Paul said he did it seems.
>> It's obvious to all Paul left out a few steps but he showed the end result.
>> With Paul's starting and ending point you can easily figure out what he
>> did.
>> Please do this one penultimate step before you conclude your final results:
>>   <about:telemetry#environment-data-tab_settings_search=dl>
>
> Copied and pasted from that link on my system in Firefox (I added the
> lines though):
> __________________________________________________________________
> Sorry! There is currently no data available in “Environment Data”
> __________________________________________________________________
>

On these browsers, the sequence is

about:about

first. This gives you a validated set of stuff.

about:
about:support
about:telemetry

You can open the telemetry one, but then be puzzled about which
one to open.

Environment Data

Then if there are too many entries, enter "dl" without the
quotes, in the Search box on the right, to select a particular
entry.

This is similar to the usage of

about:config

configuration system, which has more settings than the
GUI "Preferences" would have. In about:config, you can
enter parts of a string to reduce the visible settings
and work on a setting that interests you. For example, on
some weird hardware, you might have to turn off something
related to "accel" or hardware acceleration, to get a good
looking result on the screen.

Do *NOT* delete lines from about:config . There is no
"Shall I save this?" in the interface. Changes are
instantaneous and permanent. You would make a backup
of the profile before hand (with browser exited), if
you suspected what you planned would cause damage.

*******

Many other browsers are chrome-alikes. You can start with

chrome:
msedge:

and while typing that in the box, the browser will suggests
four items you might be interested in. And that will
kick you off into their scheme.

Paul

"Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote

| > | When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
| I use DuckDuckgo. When Water starts, Google wants to connect, Google
| Fonts and Google Images also want a connection.
|

I looked into this more, setting up Wireshark on Win10. Here
are the domaains visited in FF:

mozgcp.net
firefox.com
example.org
getpocket.com
elb.amazonaws.com
combinatronics.io
amazontrust.com
ublockorigin.pages.dev
dscq.akamai.net

In Waterfox:

youtobe
google
zscaler.com
googleapis.com
cdn.mozilla.net
use-application-dns.net
services.mozilla.com
mozaws.net
phicdn.net
edgecastcdn.net
54.148.157.250
13.225.214.86

Crazy stuff. I don't even use youtube. But then I
carefully went over the settings for privacy and
removed all URLs in the prefs settings. Both browsers
still went out on startup, but it was mainly these
destinations:

mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com
13.35.73.63 Amazon
104.16.248.249 Cloudflare

They don't seem to be calling DNS first. And I found
Amazon domain text in xul.dll,as well as an sqlite file
in the profile folder. Both destinations seem to be
capacity providers, but why do the browsers need to
call them when I haven't actually done anything but
start the pograms? I don't know.

So if you set it up for privacy you should be OK with
either browser, but even if you don't enable "pockets",
whatever that is, something might call that website if
you don't remove the URLs from prefs.

On 3/26/22 5:46 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote
>
> | > | When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
> | I use DuckDuckgo. When Water starts, Google wants to connect, Google
> | Fonts and Google Images also want a connection.
> |
>
> I looked into this more, setting up Wireshark on Win10. Here
> are the domaains visited in FF:
>
> mozgcp.net
> firefox.com
> example.org
> getpocket.com
> elb.amazonaws.com
> combinatronics.io
> amazontrust.com
> ublockorigin.pages.dev
> dscq.akamai.net
>
> In Waterfox:
>
> youtobe
> google
> zscaler.com
> googleapis.com
> cdn.mozilla.net
> use-application-dns.net
> services.mozilla.com
> mozaws.net
> phicdn.net
> edgecastcdn.net
> 54.148.157.250
> 13.225.214.86
>
> Crazy stuff. I don't even use youtube. But then I
> carefully went over the settings for privacy and
> removed all URLs in the prefs settings. Both browsers
> still went out on startup, but it was mainly these
> destinations:
>
> mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com
> 13.35.73.63 Amazon
> 104.16.248.249 Cloudflare
>
> They don't seem to be calling DNS first. And I found
> Amazon domain text in xul.dll,as well as an sqlite file
> in the profile folder. Both destinations seem to be
> capacity providers, but why do the browsers need to
> call them when I haven't actually done anything but
> start the pograms? I don't know.
>
> So if you set it up for privacy you should be OK with
> either browser, but even if you don't enable "pockets",
> whatever that is, something might call that website if
> you don't remove the URLs from prefs.
>
>
On a side note Wireshark works great in Linux.

What are your thoughts about:PaleMoon?

So what have you deduced?

Is there some pattern that follows your key presses in order to better
serve you?

I wonder how many ways can a person interact with the internet?

"Nic" <Nic@none.net> wrote

| What are your thoughts about:PaleMoon?
|

I like PM and New Moon. But they don't seem to work so well
with overproduced sites built on things like reactJS. There seem to
be an increasing number of sites that are multiple wrappers, with
complex script creating interactive webpages. The authors apparently
don't actually know how to code. So it gets very complicated.
Just yesterday I tried to get to my doctor's medical report with
New Moon. The page is blank with CSS and broken without it. It
just doesn't work.

It's my understanding that PM/NM is based on a different rendering
engine. Goanna instead of Gecko. Then there seem to be some
sites that people report only working in Chrome. Web assembly?
Frankly I've just lost track. It used to be that I coul look at webpage
code if there was a problem. Today it's gobs of crap, obfuscated
code, written by WYSIWYG editors by kids who don't know how to
code, and pulling in vast script libraries from numerous sources.
They're borrowing functionality from all kinds of places. (My doctor
is subject to HIPAA privact rules, but their website has Google Analytics
and half a dozen other companies getting connected via script!)

Long story short, I find it impossible to figure out which browsers
actually work where. That's compounded by the fact that I rarely
visit interactive pages and rarely allow script. The Internet is gradually
turning into a place where people connect to spyware corporate
services. And those services are running as large software programs.

| So what have you deduced?
|

About the tests? I wanted to see whether there was truly spyware
that I should be concerned about. As near as I can tell, both FF
and Waterfox are fairly clean, but you really have to go through
all the settings to get it cean. They're catering to that growing segment
who don't care about privacy or security and just want their Facebook
or Instagram to work.

Mayayana wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>>
>> What are your thoughts about:PaleMoon?
>
> I like PM and New Moon. But they don't seem to work so well
> with overproduced sites built on things like reactJS. There seem to
> be an increasing number of sites that are multiple wrappers, with
> complex script creating interactive webpages. The authors apparently
> don't actually know how to code. So it gets very complicated.
> Just yesterday I tried to get to my doctor's medical report with
> New Moon. The page is blank with CSS and broken without it. It
> just doesn't work.
>
> It's my understanding that PM/NM is based on a different rendering
> engine. Goanna instead of Gecko. Then there seem to be some
> sites that people report only working in Chrome. Web assembly?
> Frankly I've just lost track. It used to be that I coul look at webpage
> code if there was a problem. Today it's gobs of crap, obfuscated
> code, written by WYSIWYG editors by kids who don't know how to
> code, and pulling in vast script libraries from numerous sources.
> They're borrowing functionality from all kinds of places. (My doctor
> is subject to HIPAA privact rules, but their website has Google Analytics
> and half a dozen other companies getting connected via script!)

My primary care physician's office is always after me to create an
online account so that I can access my records and schedule
appointments, but whenever they do that I give the following standard
reply: "I refuse to conduct business of a confidential nature on the
internet. In my personal opinion, it's far too insecure of a venue for
doing so."

> Long story short, I find it impossible to figure out which browsers
> actually work where. That's compounded by the fact that I rarely
> visit interactive pages and rarely allow script. The Internet is gradually
> turning into a place where people connect to spyware corporate
> services. And those services are running as large software programs.
>
>> So what have you deduced?
>
> About the tests? I wanted to see whether there was truly spyware
> that I should be concerned about. As near as I can tell, both FF
> and Waterfox are fairly clean, but you really have to go through
> all the settings to get it cean. They're catering to that growing segment
> who don't care about privacy or security and just want their Facebook
> or Instagram to work.

--
John C. BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, pirated,
share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares for me please. I filter out
posts made from Google Groups and cross-posted (sent to more than one
newsgroup at a time) messages. I recommend you do likewise.

Mayayana wrote:

> mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com
> They don't seem to be calling DNS first.

sounds like you've enabled DNSoverHTTPS in preferences/connection settings

On 3/27/2022 2:07 AM, John C. wrote:
> Mayayana wrote:
>> Nic wrote:
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts about:PaleMoon?
>>
>> I like PM and New Moon. But they don't seem to work so well
>> with overproduced sites built on things like reactJS. There seem to
>> be an increasing number of sites that are multiple wrappers, with
>> complex script creating interactive webpages. The authors apparently
>> don't actually know how to code. So it gets very complicated.
>> Just yesterday I tried to get to my doctor's medical report with
>> New Moon. The page is blank with CSS and broken without it. It
>> just doesn't work.
>>
>> It's my understanding that PM/NM is based on a different rendering
>> engine. Goanna instead of Gecko. Then there seem to be some
>> sites that people report only working in Chrome. Web assembly?
>> Frankly I've just lost track. It used to be that I coul look at webpage
>> code if there was a problem. Today it's gobs of crap, obfuscated
>> code, written by WYSIWYG editors by kids who don't know how to
>> code, and pulling in vast script libraries from numerous sources.
>> They're borrowing functionality from all kinds of places. (My doctor
>> is subject to HIPAA privact rules, but their website has Google Analytics
>> and half a dozen other companies getting connected via script!)
>
> My primary care physician's office is always after me to create an
> online account so that I can access my records and schedule
> appointments, but whenever they do that I give the following standard
> reply: "I refuse to conduct business of a confidential nature on the
> internet. In my personal opinion, it's far too insecure of a venue for
> doing so."

Without writing a lot of stuff, it can improve the quality of
your experience with the factory medical system. A portal cannot
correct all the deficiencies, but any little bit of improvement, helps.

I can see my labs, the same day the doctor sees them.
By reading them in advance of my next appointment, I
can have my list of questions ready. If I see "creatinine: marginal",
I can ask the doctor whether I'm in trouble or not.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/creatinine-test/about/pac-20384646

"A creatinine test is a measure of how well
your kidneys are performing their job"

The portal session is protected via https, for in-flight protection.
Your ISP cannot read the packets.

Even if there wasn't a portal, ransomware can still attack the
electronic records keeping system your doctor uses. It's not like
the risk magically becomes zero, because there is no portal.

Paul

On 3/26/22 8:30 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Nic" <Nic@none.net> wrote
>
> | What are your thoughts about:PaleMoon?
> |
>
> I like PM and New Moon. But they don't seem to work so well
> with overproduced sites built on things like reactJS. There seem to
> be an increasing number of sites that are multiple wrappers, with
> complex script creating interactive webpages. The authors apparently
> don't actually know how to code. So it gets very complicated.
> Just yesterday I tried to get to my doctor's medical report with
> New Moon. The page is blank with CSS and broken without it. It
> just doesn't work.
>
> It's my understanding that PM/NM is based on a different rendering
> engine. Goanna instead of Gecko. Then there seem to be some
> sites that people report only working in Chrome. Web assembly?
> Frankly I've just lost track. It used to be that I coul look at webpage
> code if there was a problem. Today it's gobs of crap, obfuscated
> code, written by WYSIWYG editors by kids who don't know how to
> code, and pulling in vast script libraries from numerous sources.
> They're borrowing functionality from all kinds of places. (My doctor
> is subject to HIPAA privact rules, but their website has Google Analytics
> and half a dozen other companies getting connected via script!)
>
> Long story short, I find it impossible to figure out which browsers
> actually work where. That's compounded by the fact that I rarely
> visit interactive pages and rarely allow script. The Internet is gradually
> turning into a place where people connect to spyware corporate
> services. And those services are running as large software programs.
>
>
> | So what have you deduced?
> |
>
> About the tests? I wanted to see whether there was truly spyware
> that I should be concerned about. As near as I can tell, both FF
> and Waterfox are fairly clean, but you really have to go through
> all the settings to get it cean. They're catering to that growing segment
> who don't care about privacy or security and just want their Facebook
> or Instagram to work.
>
>
It is good that you are doing the work and posting your results. Thank You.

There are people who do care and would prefer to not contribute to the
monstrous marketing machine.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:46:41 -0400
"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> "Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote
>
> | > | When Waterfox starts, Google and mozilla.push.services start.
> | I use DuckDuckgo. When Water starts, Google wants to connect,
> Google | Fonts and Google Images also want a connection.
> |
>
> I looked into this more, setting up Wireshark on Win10. Here
> are the domaains visited in FF:
>
> mozgcp.net
> firefox.com
> example.org
> getpocket.com
> elb.amazonaws.com
> combinatronics.io
> amazontrust.com
> ublockorigin.pages.dev
> dscq.akamai.net
>
> In Waterfox:
>
> youtobe
> google
> zscaler.com
> googleapis.com
> cdn.mozilla.net
> use-application-dns.net
> services.mozilla.com
> mozaws.net
> phicdn.net
> edgecastcdn.net
> 54.148.157.250
> 13.225.214.86
>
> Crazy stuff. I don't even use youtube. But then I
> carefully went over the settings for privacy and
> removed all URLs in the prefs settings. Both browsers
> still went out on startup, but it was mainly these
> destinations:
>
> mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com
> 13.35.73.63 Amazon
> 104.16.248.249 Cloudflare
>
> They don't seem to be calling DNS first. And I found
> Amazon domain text in xul.dll,as well as an sqlite file
> in the profile folder. Both destinations seem to be
> capacity providers, but why do the browsers need to
> call them when I haven't actually done anything but
> start the pograms? I don't know.
>
> So if you set it up for privacy you should be OK with
> either browser, but even if you don't enable "pockets",
> whatever that is, something might call that website if
> you don't remove the URLs from prefs.
>
>

I noticed the other day when I was still using Waterfox, that a new
version of NoScript was installed. That is not supposed to happen with
a Linux operating system. All updates are manually installed and
require a password. Somehow Waterfox managed to install that update.

I'm now using Debian and Firefox ESR. I went through all the security,
and privacy settings, and disabled that DNS hijacker Cloudflare,
that's the best I can do.

I went here, https://www.top10vpn.com/tools/what-is-my-dns-server/ to
make sure AT&T was my DNS server and not Cloudflare.

Mozilla is sneaky. When you first install Firefox ESR and go to
network settings, Enable DNS over HTTPS is not checked, and Cloudflare
is grayed out, which makes you think you are not using Cloudflare. If
you just sit there about a minute and watch the settings, Cloudflare
becomes the DNS server. Most people would probably just see that DNS
over HTTPS is not enabled, and move on, not knowing they would be using
Cloudflare.

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 2:46:41 PM, Mayayana wrote:

> I looked into this more, setting up Wireshark on Win10. Here
> are the domaains visited in FF

Will it help to put Firefox/Waterfox leaked domains into the hosts file?
# Firefox startup domain leaks
127.0.0.1 mozgcp.net
127.0.0.1 firefox.com
127.0.0.1 example.org
127.0.0.1 getpocket.com
127.0.0.1 elb.amazonaws.com
127.0.0.1 combinatronics.io
127.0.0.1 amazontrust.com
127.0.0.1 ublockorigin.pages.dev
127.0.0.1 dscq.akamai.net
#
# Waterfox startup domain leaks
127.0.0.1 youtobe.com
127.0.0.1 google.com
127.0.0.1 zscaler.com
127.0.0.1 googleapis.com
127.0.0.1 cdn.mozilla.net
127.0.0.1 use-application-dns.net
127.0.0.1 services.mozilla.com
127.0.0.1 mozaws.net
127.0.0.1 phicdn.net
127.0.0.1 edgecastcdn.net
127.0.0.1 54.148.157.250
127.0.0.1 13.225.214.86
#
127.0.0.1 mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com
127.0.0.1 13.35.73.63 # Amazon
127.0.0.1 104.16.248.249 # Cloudflare

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:30:04 PM, Mayayana wrote:

> I like PM and New Moon.

Where do you get the New Moon port of Pale Moon for Windows 10?
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=where+download+new+moon+browser+windows+10]

Thomas wrote:

> Will it help to put Firefox/Waterfox leaked domains into the hosts file?

depends what you want to break ... e.g. if you've installed uBlock, then
stopping it update its lists is probably harmful, similarly if you have DNSoHTTP
then blocking cloudflaredns w isn't good, unless you turn off DNSoHTTP first.

"Thomas" <canope234@gmail.com> wrote

| Where do you get the New Moon port of Pale Moon for Windows 10?
| [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=where+download+new+moon+browser+windows+10]

It's Windows software. There's no port. But you don't
need New Moon. It's just a 32-bit version of Pale Moon
that supports XP. The PM people dropped 32-bit support.