On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 11:55:50 -0500, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid>
wrote:

>On 3/29/22 10:56, Char Jackson wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> AFAIK, you can't manually remove the default gateway if you're using
>> DHCP, so it's an either/or situation. I'm not sure if a script can still
>> make changes, though. I don't use DHCP here.
>
>You could always change to static addressing, and then have control over
>those things.

Of course.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:09:01 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> DNS wouldn't be my preferred approach. DNS doesn't affect WAN
>> connectivity, so any WAN destinations that are IP-hardcoded or already
>> cached would still be reachable. That's why I like the default gateway
>> approach.
>
>Did you mean DNS or DHCP

I meant DNS.

>when you said DNS doesn't affect IP-hardcoded WAN addresses?

Hardcoded IP WAN destinations don't use DNS. Windows reportedly has a
bunch of those, and I believe I've seen reports of other various
software applications that do likewise.

Speaking loosely, DNS is like the old fashioned phonebook that phone
companies used to distribute to each home. If you lose your phonebook,
you can still call people if you've memorized their number or you've
written it down somewhere. Likewise, if you mess up your DNS
configuration, you can still connect to WAN destinations if you know
their IP address (or if your browser or your PC has cached the IP
address). So messing up your DNS settings isn't a good way to disable
WAN access. It's not good at all.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:09:19 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> I don't want to disable the local network with the software switch.
>>>>> I want to turn on and off only the wide area network to the internet.
>>>>
>>>> You could disable WAN access by turning off power to your modem. of
>>>> disconnecting the cable.
>>>
>>> That would work if I could log into the modem.
>>> Do they allow me to change the settings inside the modem?
>>
>> I have connected to my modem, but the only thing I can change there is
>> to reboot it, not turn if off. However, why would you need to log in to
>> physically unplug it?
>
>Most of the suggestions made already give me what I asked for, with the only
>issue left is that they're multiple steps, not a single software on/off
>toggle for the WAN on a specific PC (but not for the rest of the PCs).
>Block with Gateway
>Block with DNS
>Block with Windows Firewall
>Block with Proxy
>Block with Network Adapter
>
>Each of these suggestions makes use of a software trick to disable & then
>reenable the WAN while sitting at any one PC on the LAN (wifi or wired).
>
>A hardware switch can't do anything like that as far as anyone has said.
>
>Since most of the suggestions worked in my tests, what I am doing now is
>trying to test which works better in a script for a one step on/off toggle.
>
>I'm currently working with https://www.sordum.org/9660/net-disabler-v1-1/
>which has software switches that can be toggled on and off and back on in
>multiple steps but I think I can put them into a script which a shortcut can
>point to that allows for an on/off and then off/on resettable toggle switch.
>
>Usage: <command>
>Commands:
>/E : Enable Internet
>/D : Disable Internet
>/T : Target Action ( 1=Drive, 2=DNS, 3=Proxy, 4=Firewall )
>/Q : Queries the Internet Blocked Status
>
>Examples:
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /E
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /D
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /Q
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /D /T 1
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /D /T 12
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /D /T 13
>NetDisabler_x64.exe /D /T 1234

What does "Disable Internet" actually mean? What does that option do?
Does it disable the NIC? Does it reconfigure the default route or
perhaps the default gateway?

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> What does "Disable Internet" actually mean? What does that option do?
> Does it disable the NIC? Does it reconfigure the default route or
> perhaps the default gateway?.

Each of those options does something different - but all do something.
But like you I was surprised they each did it a different way.
With different results.

I can't explain it any better than the windows club does though.

Net Disabler lets you completely turn Internet On or Off with a click
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/net-disabler-turn-internet-on-off

Or Ghacks

Net Disabler: disable the Internet connection temporarily
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/22/net-disabler/

Or Major Geeks
Net Disabler is a simple portable tool for quickly blocking access, for
whatever reason, to the internet.
https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/net_disabler.html

On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 04:02:34 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> What does "Disable Internet" actually mean? What does that option do?
>> Does it disable the NIC? Does it reconfigure the default route or
>> perhaps the default gateway?.
>
>Each of those options does something different - but all do something.
>But like you I was surprised they each did it a different way.
>With different results.
>
>I can't explain it any better than the windows club does though.
>
>Net Disabler lets you completely turn Internet On or Off with a click
>https://www.thewindowsclub.com/net-disabler-turn-internet-on-off
>
>Or Ghacks
>
>Net Disabler: disable the Internet connection temporarily
>https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/22/net-disabler/
>
>Or Major Geeks
>Net Disabler is a simple portable tool for quickly blocking access, for
>whatever reason, to the internet.
>https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/net_disabler.html

OK, thanks. I didn't like any of those explanations. I was hoping to see
something more technical.

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> OK, thanks. I didn't like any of those explanations. I was hoping to see
> something more technical.

I can't explain it better than the developer does.
https://www.sordum.org/9660/net-disabler-v1-1/

But just in case, here is another review with another description.
https://www.accuratereviews.com/how-to-temporarily-disable-your-internet-connection/

And this is a description by tech tips review.
https://techtipsnreview.com/on-off-and-manage-the-internet-on-your-computer-with-net-disabler/

This is the "The Windows Club" description of each option.
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/net-disabler-turn-internet-on-off

Disable Devices: This method disables all the selected network devices so
that there is no communication between your computer and the internet. In
this mode, Windows will respond as if there is no wireless or LAN connection
on your computer.

Block with DNS: Net Disabler will change system-wide DNS settings so that
the users cannot access any website. Overcoming this type of security is
very easy. It can be done by simply plugging in the IP address values rather
than the website names. And in this type of setup, Windows will connect to
wireless or other networks but websites will not be accessible.

Block with Proxy: Proxy is used to block the internet.

Block with Windows Firewall: Under this method, Windows Firewall settings
are altered in such a way that no program can access internet on the
computer. Windows will connect to wireless and other networks in this setup
as well.

Peter used his or her keyboard to write :

> Do you have a network on/off switch that can be double clicked to turn the
> network off and then double clicked to turn the network back on?

nettoggle.lnk
C:\Windows\System32\schtasks.exe /run /TN "task nettoggle"
~
taskschd.msc
task nettoggle
Run with highest privileges = checked
Action = Start a program
Program/script = %comspec%
Add arguments = /c start "" c:\pathto\nettoggle.bat

nettoggle.bat
@echo off
set defgw=192.168.1.1
set "ip="
for /f "tokens=2,3 delims={,}" %%a in ('"WMIC NICConfig where IPEnabled="True" get DefaultIPGateway /value | find "I" "') do if not defined ip set ip=%%~a
IF "%ip%"=="%defgw%" ( %comspec% /c %windir%\system32\route.exe delete 0.0.0.0 %defgw%) ELSE ( %comspec% /c %windir%\system32\route.exe add 0.0.0.0 mask 0.0.0.0 %defgw%)
exit

Peter <occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
> > In other words, if you physically unplug the cable from
> > one computer, that doesn't affect the other computers
> > with their own connection to the router. It just means
> > that you can't exchange files with those computers.
>
> The goal is a one click intelligent software on/off network switch.
> If there's a WAN on that PC, it disables it. If not, it enables it.
>
> All the solutions I'm testing will already do that toggle.
> But without the intelligence of the if-then-else knowledge.

Just 'ping' a known host by IP address. If it succeeds, WAN is on. If
it fails, WAN is off. (N.B. You'll probably will have to set a time-out
('-w') or/and check if 'ping' reported the round trip times, otherwise
'ping' can report "Lost = 0 (0% loss)" even if the network is off.)

> An example is the "Net Disabler" tool wasbit had suggested.
> https://www.accuratereviews.com/how-to-temporarily-disable-your-internet-connection/
>
> Another example is the "Kill Switch" tool Char Jackson had suggested.
> https://www.raymond.cc/blog/download/did/3746/
>
> Another example are "NETSH" & "WMIC" tools that someone else had suggested.
> https://www.action1.com/how-to-enable-disable-or-restart-network-adapter/
>
> All work.
> All require manual intervention.
>
> There are too many solutions right now.
> I need to focus on improving the intelligence of just one of them.
>
> Which do you think has the best chance of distilling into a single click
> network on/off toggle? (If the network is on, turn it off, and vice versa.)

You aren't Arlen Holder's twin brother - or himself - by any chance?

On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 05:27:51 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> OK, thanks. I didn't like any of those explanations. I was hoping to see
>> something more technical.
>
>I can't explain it better than the developer does.
>https://www.sordum.org/9660/net-disabler-v1-1/
>
>But just in case, here is another review with another description.
>https://www.accuratereviews.com/how-to-temporarily-disable-your-internet-connection/
>
>And this is a description by tech tips review.
>https://techtipsnreview.com/on-off-and-manage-the-internet-on-your-computer-with-net-disabler/
>
>This is the "The Windows Club" description of each option.
>https://www.thewindowsclub.com/net-disabler-turn-internet-on-off
>
>Disable Devices: This method disables all the selected network devices so
>that there is no communication between your computer and the internet. In
>this mode, Windows will respond as if there is no wireless or LAN connection
>on your computer.

Looks like that option simply disables the relevant network adapters
(NICs). You definitely don't want that option since it kills LAN access
along with WAN access.

>Block with DNS: Net Disabler will change system-wide DNS settings so that
>the users cannot access any website. Overcoming this type of security is
>very easy. It can be done by simply plugging in the IP address values rather
>than the website names. And in this type of setup, Windows will connect to
>wireless or other networks but websites will not be accessible.

You definitely don't want that option but my objection to the
'explanation' above is that it's far too vague and quite a bit of it is
simply incorrect. Still, we know that the DNS approach is a poor choice.

>Block with Proxy: Proxy is used to block the internet.

It would be equally true to say that "Proxy is used to access the
internet." Their non-explanation is beyond vague.

>Block with Windows Firewall: Under this method, Windows Firewall settings
>are altered in such a way that no program can access internet on the
>computer. Windows will connect to wireless and other networks in this setup
>as well.

Per the description, this option has possibilities, but what's missing
is the technical explanation that I was looking for. These guys are zero
for 4 on technical explanations. I'd have to actually install the
program to see what each of the options does, but I don't want to do
that.

Maybe the little batch file posted by FTR is what you're looking for.

[snip]

> But AFAIK he does not want to disable WAN access for the other
> computers. I.e. everything should stay as it is, only no WAN access for
> one computer.
>
> OTOH, as I said, his requirements seem to be/keep changing, so ...
>
>> [snip]

Some routers can filter internet access from a particular LAP IP. That's
a software solution, but at more secure since it isn't in the same
computer as the questionable software.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The church is a bank that is continually receiving deposits but never
pays a dividend." [Lemuel K. Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And
Other Essays_]

On 3/29/22 13:30, T wrote:

[snip]

> DSL modems usually (watch the weasel word) have the
> three (modem, router, hub) combined.  Cable and
> fiber usually are separate.

When you're talking about combined things, don't forget the WiFi access
point (some systems have 2 or 3).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The church is a bank that is continually receiving deposits but never
pays a dividend." [Lemuel K. Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And
Other Essays_]

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> Maybe the little batch file posted by FTR is what you're looking for.

What batch file is that?

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 01:27:04 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Maybe the little batch file posted by FTR is what you're looking for.
>
>What batch file is that?

FromTheRafters posted a small batch file in Message-ID:
<t20nbj$kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>. Give that a try.

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

>>> Maybe the little batch file posted by FTR is what you're looking for.
>>
>>What batch file is that?
>
> FromTheRafters posted a small batch file in Message-ID:
> <t20nbj$kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>. Give that a try.

It has been a long time since I used that lookup http://al.howardknight.net/
but I finally found what you were trying to tell me about.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct20nbj%24kr%241%40gioia.aioe.org%3E

Seems to have all the steps described. Have you tried it yet?

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 04:40:40 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Maybe the little batch file posted by FTR is what you're looking for.
>>>
>>>What batch file is that?
>>
>> FromTheRafters posted a small batch file in Message-ID:
>> <t20nbj$kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>. Give that a try.
>
>It has been a long time since I used that lookup http://al.howardknight.net/
>but I finally found what you were trying to tell me about.
>http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct20nbj%24kr%241%40gioia.aioe.org%3E

I saw that you're using Forte Agent, so I assumed that you'd simply
double click the MID to open its post. I didn't expect you to use a
lookup site.

>Seems to have all the steps described. Have you tried it yet?

No, I wasn't planning to, but please let us know if it meets your needs.

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

>>Seems to have all the steps described. Have you tried it yet?
>
> No, I wasn't planning to, but please let us know if it meets your needs.

The solution worked great the first time.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 05:41:41 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>Seems to have all the steps described. Have you tried it yet?
>>
>> No, I wasn't planning to, but please let us know if it meets your needs.
>
>The solution worked great the first time.

Excellent. Credit to FromTheRafters for providing the script.

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

>>The solution worked great the first time.
>
> Excellent. Credit to FromTheRafters for providing the script.

I wonder why Windows doesn't come with this useful switch?

Touch the FTR icon once and the wan goes off (the lan stays on).
Touch the FTR icon again and the wan comes back on (the lan stays on).

If already using vpn then touch it once and the lan and wan still work.
But if the vpn is killed the wan goes off with it (but not the lan).

Pretty much it's perfect.
So perfect it should be part of Windows.

Peter wrote:

> I wonder why Windows doesn't come with this useful switch?

Because most users wouldn't understand when or why they should press the button.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>> I wonder why Windows doesn't come with this useful switch?
>
> Because most users wouldn't understand when or why they should press the button.

Did you try the FTR method?
There's no complexity at all to using it.
It's a simple on/off/on/off/on/off... toggle switch for the wan.

The hardest part of using it is remembering where you put the FTR icon. :-->

Peter wrote:

> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>>> I wonder why Windows doesn't come with this useful switch?
>>
>> Because most users wouldn't understand when or why they should press the button.
>
> Did you try the FTR method?

no need, i could tell what it was doing, and someone else says that it works

> There's no complexity at all to using it.

The complexity (not for people who have the nouse to be on usenet) is knowing
that you might ever want to be on the LAN but not on the WAN.

> It's a simple on/off/on/off/on/off... toggle switch for the wan.
>
> The hardest part of using it is remembering where you put the FTR icon. :-->

"Peter" <occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote

| Did you try the FTR method?
| There's no complexity at all to using it.
| It's a simple on/off/on/off/on/off... toggle switch for the wan.
| | The hardest part of using it is remembering where you put the FTR icon.
:-->

I haven't tried it and have no use for it, but one minor
point for people who want to use it: The default gateway
is hardcoded as 192.168.1.1. Mine happens to be 192.168.0.1.
If I didn't know that it could be very confusing trying to use
the toggle.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> The complexity (not for people who have the nouse to be on usenet) is knowing
> that you might ever want to be on the LAN but not on the WAN.

Would be nice to improve the on/off icon changing color in context.
Have you ever done something like that?
How can an icon be told to change from one icon color to another?

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 18:27:52 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>> The complexity (not for people who have the nouse to be on usenet) is knowing
>> that you might ever want to be on the LAN but not on the WAN.
>
>Would be nice to improve the on/off icon changing color in context.
>Have you ever done something like that?
>How can an icon be told to change from one icon color to another?

Feature creep... :-)

On 31/03/2022 18:24, Mayayana wrote:

> I haven't tried it and have no use for it, but one minor
> point for people who want to use it: The default gateway
> is hardcoded as 192.168.1.1. Mine happens to be 192.168.0.1.
> If I didn't know that it could be very confusing trying to use
> the toggle.

It could be re-written to automatically get the default gateway ip addy.
Regards,
Martin Brown