www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-ceo-talks-shortages-next-gen-pi

I was reading an article this weekend where Eben Upton said he thinks the
Raspberry Pi shortages should be all fixed in a years time - now that isn't
tomorrow, and I still have a bit of an attitude w/ RPi because they were always
supposed to be a tinkerer/maker device and a big part of the shortage problem
is because they choose to sell to businesses over US; I can understand them
wanting to support industrial and corporate customers, but I think some
percentage of Pi's should ONLY be for hobbyists.

At any rate, I am still itching to get my hands on a Pi Zero 2W as I haven't
been able to give one a run since it came out... for me, its size and better
performance are really appealing - at the normal retail price. :P

And, of course, I'd love to see the RPi 5 - the SBC market has been heating up
and there are lots of SBCs that are pulling ahead. Both for specific uses, such
as boards w/ SATA connections for NAS builds and other chipsets that are
finally giving the Pi 4 a run for its money - to x86 SBCs that are l00king
really nice IMO - Odroid H3+...

At any rate, I'll be really happy when the Pi shortage IS over and we can just
order @ Adafruit for retail prices... the above article (and video) is a good
read - what Pi will you order first, when you can?

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paul lee wrote:

> the SBC market has been heating up

Yes, the Rock 5B and other RK3588 based boards seem to be trickling out now, not
cheap though.

AB> Yes, the Rock 5B and other RK3588 based boards seem to be trickling out
AB> now, not cheap though.

Keep yer eye on the Orange Pi 5 - RK3588 @ $60; pre-order only ATM @ AliX.

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On 15/11/2022 04:01, paul lee wrote:
> AB> Yes, the Rock 5B and other RK3588 based boards seem to be trickling out
> AB> now, not cheap though.
>
> Keep yer eye on the Orange Pi 5 - RK3588 @ $60; pre-order only ATM @ AliX.
>
>

A quick look at CPU comparison sites suggest the RK3588 is as powerful
as my Desktop PC (Intel 2500k), 10 Years old, but no slouch. Indeed, I
have put off buying a new PC because modern performance advantages seem
slight, many recent NUC style PCs are still slower than the 2500K.

<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4906vs804/Rockchip-RK3588-vs-Intel-i5-2500K>

Is the RK3588 really that impressive, i.e. a genuine desktop replacement
candidate?

On 14/11/2022 02:55, paul lee wrote:
> www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-ceo-talks-shortages-next-gen-pi
>
> I was reading an article this weekend where Eben Upton said he thinks the
> Raspberry Pi shortages should be all fixed in a years time

Seems worse than ever at the moment.

In November last year I was able to get a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W, and in
April this year I got a Pi 4 1GB to use as a web server.

I had to look hard for a week or two in each case but I just never see
anything available in the UK now. Not even the Raspberry Pi 400 that was
for a long time by far the easiest Pi to get.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> A quick look at CPU comparison sites suggest the RK3588 is as powerful
> as my Desktop PC (Intel 2500k), 10 Years old, but no slouch. Indeed, I
> have put off buying a new PC because modern performance advantages seem
> slight, many recent NUC style PCs are still slower than the 2500K.

Perhaps it depends on your workload. My last three home-desktop CPUs have
been, from oldest to newest:

* Core 2 Quad Q6600, purchased in 2008
* Core i5 4690K, probably purchased around 2014-2015
* Ryzen 7 3800X, purchased in 2020

Each upgrade has been a significant performance boost over its predecessor
that has significantly reduced time needed to (for instance) transcode video
or compile software. Perhaps a less strenuous workload would still be
within reach of the older chips (I donated the Core 2 Quad to my employer,
who continued using it daily until around 2018 or 2019), but I kinda like
having a computer that can boot to the desktop in under 10 seconds*. :)

* Not counting POST, though that adds maybe 3-4 seconds. I just rebooted my
Framework Laptop (with a Core i7-1165G7) to see how long it'd take. From
GRUB to the login prompt took about 7 seconds, and from hitting Enter on
my password to the KDE desktop was maybe a bit under 2 seconds more.

--
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(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>> A quick look at CPU comparison sites suggest the RK3588 is as powerful
>> as my Desktop PC (Intel 2500k), 10 Years old, but no slouch. Indeed, I
>> have put off buying a new PC because modern performance advantages seem
>> slight, many recent NUC style PCs are still slower than the 2500K.
>
> Perhaps it depends on your workload. My last three home-desktop CPUs have
> been, from oldest to newest:
>
> * Core 2 Quad Q6600, purchased in 2008
> * Core i5 4690K, probably purchased around 2014-2015
> * Ryzen 7 3800X, purchased in 2020

All of those are faster than any of the computers that I currently
use at home, so I guess it depends on something. But then I'm well
aware that a Pi4, and many other SBCs, have been plenty fast enough
for my usage for years, so that's no longer really a point of note.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:

> * Not counting POST, though that adds maybe 3-4 seconds.  I just rebooted
> my Framework Laptop (with a Core i7-1165G7) to see how long it'd take.
> From GRUB to the login prompt took about 7 seconds, and from hitting Enter
> on my password to the KDE desktop was maybe a bit under 2 seconds more.

you are may be aware that using SSD or NVMe in recent years boosted the boot
time, right? So I wonder why you did not mention what disk you used inside.

In fact a x386 Geod (333Mhz CPU) from 2007 here boots in 10secs from a CF
card and consumes at max. 12W. I couldn't find replacement. I tried Orange
PI with two network cards. It turned out the second one is connected to the
USB bus and with pure debian stable it stops working for unknown reason
after 1-2 days. I now ordered one more expensive based on intel.

So it actually depends on the use case. Well you can still buy Bently and
keep it in the garage or drive it 30km/h, or even once a month go and drive
200. What I am trying to say that one should look for balance in price,
productivity and power consumption. Actually for desktop use the newer i5
and later CPUs are very comfortable. I did not see the need to buy i7 yet.
Not even on windows.

On 18-11-2022 07:56, Deloptes wrote:
> In fact a x386 Geod (333Mhz CPU) from 2007 here boots in 10secs from a CF
> card and consumes at max. 12W. I couldn't find replacement. I tried Orange
> PI with two network cards. It turned out the second one is connected to the
> USB bus and with pure debian stable it stops working for unknown reason
> after 1-2 days. I now ordered one more expensive based on intel.

Is it the Lattepanda 3 Delta? That one seems interesting if just a bit
expensive for an impulse buy (so, not for me at the moment). And it's a
shame the embedded microcontroller isn't a bit more powerful.

Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
>
>> * Not counting POST, though that adds maybe 3-4 seconds.  I just rebooted
>> my Framework Laptop (with a Core i7-1165G7) to see how long it'd take.
>> From GRUB to the login prompt took about 7 seconds, and from hitting Enter
>> on my password to the KDE desktop was maybe a bit under 2 seconds more..
>
> you are may be aware that using SSD or NVMe in recent years boosted the boot
> time, right? So I wonder why you did not mention what disk you used inside.

SSDs boost the speed of just about everything. I even managed to get one
running in an ancient G4 Mac mini to some small benefit, though the bigger
benefit is arguably the removal of a mechanical device subject to breakage.
As SSDs were becoming cheaper (and more common), I saw how they were
squeezing more life out of older computers by keeping them usable a little
bit longer.

As for the aforementioned Framework, it uses a 1TB SK Hynix Gold P31. I
didn't mention it because computers have shipped with SSDs as standard
equipment for several years. The Framework replaced a six-year-old Dell
Latitude 7370, and even that shipped with an M.2 SSD (SATA, though I
replaced it with a larger NVMe stick fairly early).

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article <AWOdL.4320$TlS4.524@fx11.iad>,
<scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
> Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> > scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:

> SSDs boost the speed of just about everything. I even managed to
> get one running in an ancient G4 Mac mini to some small benefit,
> though the bigger benefit is arguably the removal of a mechanical
> device subject to breakage. As SSDs were becoming cheaper (and more
> common), I saw how they were squeezing more life out of older
> computers by keeping them usable a little bit longer.

I replaced the hard drive with an SSD on my old Acer Aspire 5741G
laptop which has made a big improvement - absolutely worth doing to
improve performance and keep older PCs going for longer.

scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:

> SSDs boost the speed of just about everything.  I even managed to get one
> running in an ancient G4 Mac mini to some small benefit, though the bigger
> benefit is arguably the removal of a mechanical device subject to
> breakage. As SSDs were becoming cheaper (and more common), I saw how they
> were squeezing more life out of older computers by keeping them usable a
> little bit longer.
>

well SSDs have advantages and disadvantages.
1. if it dies, most likely you can not recover any data out of it
2. the price is a factor. I calculated recently the benefit of replacing the
WD Red spinning disk with SSDs (2 TB in RAID pairs). The conclusion was
that the power saved does not rectify the replacement - the price of the
SSD is still too high. So I just left the spinning rust inside. Some of
them are running for 8-10y already

So no, I do not think it is always best choice. I have a problem with SSDs
in single mode. It depends highly on the use case, but if using SSD in
single mode one should take care of (more) regular backups.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 15:03:33 +0100
Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2. the price is a factor. I calculated recently the benefit of replacing
> the WD Red spinning disk with SSDs (2 TB in RAID pairs). The conclusion
> was that the power saved does not rectify the replacement - the price of
> the SSD is still too high. So I just left the spinning rust inside. Some
> of them are running for 8-10y already

It was even less favourable when I compared it with my array of
second hand 2TB 3.5" SAS drives.

For flat out performance there's nothing to beat a mirror of high
end NVMe SSDs like the ones outfits like EMC put in their most expensive
storage servers - but you need at least a 10gb backbone and probably 25gb
to see the full advantage across a LAN - oh and a pretty fruity server to
host them. If price matters don't go anywhere near this.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

BG> In November last year I was able to get a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W, and in
BG> April this year I got a Pi 4 1GB to use as a web server.

I still haven't been able to score a Pi Zero 2 W. Sure, I don't scour the
interwebs to find one, but... I really wanna take a look at them.

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On 21/11/2022 03:54, paul lee wrote:
> BG> In November last year I was able to get a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W, and in
> BG> April this year I got a Pi 4 1GB to use as a web server.
>
> I still haven't been able to score a Pi Zero 2 W. Sure, I don't scour the
> interwebs to find one, but... I really wanna take a look at them.
>
>
>
> |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
> |08.........
>
Me too. Handy devices

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

paul lee <nospam.paul.lee@f420.n105.z1.fidonet.org> wrote:
> BG> In November last year I was able to get a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W, and in
> BG> April this year I got a Pi 4 1GB to use as a web server.
>
> I still haven't been able to score a Pi Zero 2 W. Sure, I don't scour the
> interwebs to find one, but... I really wanna take a look at them.

https://rpilocator.com/feed/

Put this in your RSS reader and you'll see which vendors get which products
when they get them. I've gotten a Pi Zero 2W that way (and a couple of
CM4s, too).

--
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/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?