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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Chrome Browser data vs Site data

SubjectAuthor
* Chrome Browser data vs Site datawolfgang kern
`* Re: Chrome Browser data vs Site dataVanguardLH
 `- Re: Chrome Browser data vs Site dataVanguardLH

1
Chrome Browser data vs Site data

<t3msij$1mv3$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: nowh...@nospicedham.never.at (wolfgang kern)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Chrome Browser data vs Site data
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:47:15 +0200
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 by: wolfgang kern - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:47 UTC

In Chrome I have a startup tab set to clear Browser data
chrome://settings/clearBrowserData

And another tab set to clear site data
chrome://settings/siteData

But what's the difference between them?

Clearing one does not clear the other even as every item is selected to be
cleared in both.

The clearBrowserData lists (advanced, all time)
browsing history
download history
cookies and other site data
cached images and files
passwords and other sign-in data
autofill form data
site settings
hoststed app data

The siteData lists
www.google.com Local storage

Why isn't the "www.google.com locally stored data" not removed when you
clear browser data? Why does it always need an extra step?

Re: Chrome Browser data vs Site data

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Chrome Browser data vs Site data
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:40:29 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 22:40 UTC

wolfgang kern wrote:

> In Chrome I have a startup tab set to clear Browser data
> chrome://settings/clearBrowserData
>
> And another tab set to clear site data
> chrome://settings/siteData
>
> But what's the difference between them?
>
> Clearing one does not clear the other even as every item is selected to be
> cleared in both.
>
> The clearBrowserData lists (advanced, all time)
> browsing history
> download history
> cookies and other site data
> cached images and files
> passwords and other sign-in data
> autofill form data
> site settings
> hoststed app data
>
> The siteData lists
> www.google.com Local storage
>
> Why isn't the "www.google.com locally stored data" not removed when you
> clear browser data? Why does it always need an extra step?

Sites can store files local to your host. For example, when doing a
crossword puzzle, the site can download the table of answers to your
host, and let the page's script use the now-local table to check if your
input matches the answers. This is much faster than using a script
event on character entry to pass the character up to the server to then
have the server's script validate the input, and then issue a response
as to whether you input the correct character. You might want to
retrieve your purchase history, and look at it later in another web
session, and the still-valid data that was downloaded can be reused
rather than having the server recompile your purchase history. There
are lots of uses for sites to download and retain data on your host, and
the intent is for that data to survive across web sessions.

Cookies (text files) can only store a few kilobytes of data for reuse in
the next web session with the same site. Local storage can store
megabytes of data, and it is faster to access the local cache than to
re-retrieve the data. Quite often the data are preferences of your
account when you are logged in, or the state of your web session, and
cookies just cannot hold all that data, so local storage is used.
Instead of the server maintaining some huge list of items you added to
an order, and because it really shouldn't be the onus of the server to
track what you intended to order but didn't complete, the order could be
stored in local data for reuse when you revisit the site to continue
with the order. You might want to delete cookies (mostly for logins)
and other locally cached data, but retain the site data stored locally
for the next web session with the same site.

Site data also stores your preferences with a site that have nothing to
do with anything the site would retain. For example, you might
configure Firefox to prompt anytime a site wants your geo location, but
it can be a nuisance to answer the prompt every time you revisit a site
to again allow it to have geo permission. The server writes cookies
files, but your browser-specific preferences are not part of any cookie,
so those preferences get save in a local cache used by the browser to
know what you previously selected for preferences at the site.

Site preferences is what YOU specified to use when [re]visiting the same
site. Since the intent is to reuse those preferences when you next
visit the same site, it is not appropriate to include them when deleting
locally cached data unless YOU want to start from scratch again on your
next revisit to set your preferences again. Perhaps you do want
preferences to be per-session only. Site preferences is included in the
browser data that you mention. Your choice to purge it, or not.

Sites can also download data to your browser to retain locally for reuse
later. As mentioned, cookies are small, so they would be inappropiate
to store a database or any large data set. Site data used to be called
DOM Storate or local storage; see:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Storage_API

DOM Storage is used by the server to save data on your host that is
relevant to your account, order, state, or other data appropriate to
when you visited a site. For example, when visiting a crossword site,
they may download a table of entries for each Across or Down entry along
with the answer. The page script can then use the table to check your
input, like to show if a letter is correct or not, or to verify a word
you entered was correct. Having to send each character when input to
the server to have the server check a table up there and then send a
response back regarding status would be far slower, and make response on
the crossword puzzle appear very slow. This is considered user data: it
is the table for the crossword you are solving. Accessing a local copy
of the crossword is far faster than doing verification up to and back
from the server.

You can clean ALL locally stored data on Firefox's exit. Go to
about:preferences#privacy -> History -> Settings, and select all data
types.

"Site settings" are what YOU decided to specify when you visited a site,
and can be reused on your next revisit to the same site. Up to you if
you want to reuse those setting to avoid having to specify them again,
or purge them to start all over with setting preferences at the site.
"Offline website data" is DOM Storage aka local storage.

My personal choice is to configure Firefox to purge ALL of its locally
cached data on its exit: history (browsing & download, cookies, active
logins (*note), [web page] cache, form & search history, and I include
site settings (preferences YOU specified, if any) and offline website
data (DOM/local storage). That also means I start from scratch when I
revisit a site, but it also prevents tracking between web sessions. I
rarely alter site preferences (i.e., allow geolocation), but I may need
it during a web session to navigate around the site, but I don't want it
remembered in the next web session to the site. DOM/local storage is to
save user data on your host that is far too large to store in cookies.

https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/cookies-vs-local-storage-2f3732c7d977

User-specified preferences is small, not appropriate to store in
cookies, and don't need to use local storage (for huge data sets), so
preferences are stored in a local cache.

No idea why you present the data clearing pages when you start Firefox
and where you have to manually do the purging rather than having Firefox
purge the same data you selected on its exit.

Despite clearing all locally cached data (either your way on startup, or
my way on exit), that is a purge operation, and does not affect what
gets stored DURING a web session. That you saw Google listed under
SiteData means you visited there since you loaded Firefox, you are using
the home page feature of showing recently visited sites, and one was
Google, or an add-on is accessing Google (e.g., Google's SafeBrowsing
feature in Firefox). Purging doesn't prevent regathering the data
during a web session. Plus, we don't know if you added exclusions to
the purging selections.

Re: Chrome Browser data vs Site data

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Chrome Browser data vs Site data
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:49:05 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 22:49 UTC

VanguardLH wrote:

> wolfgang kern wrote:
>
>> In Chrome I have a startup tab set to clear Browser data
>> chrome://settings/clearBrowserData
>>
>> And another tab set to clear site data
>> chrome://settings/siteData
>>
>> But what's the difference between them?
>>
>> Clearing one does not clear the other even as every item is selected to be
>> cleared in both.
>>
>> The clearBrowserData lists (advanced, all time)
>> browsing history
>> download history
>> cookies and other site data
>> cached images and files
>> passwords and other sign-in data
>> autofill form data
>> site settings
>> hoststed app data
>>
>> The siteData lists
>> www.google.com Local storage
>>
>> Why isn't the "www.google.com locally stored data" not removed when you
>> clear browser data? Why does it always need an extra step?
>
> Sites can store files local to your host. For example, when doing a
> crossword puzzle, the site can download the table of answers to your
> host, and let the page's script use the now-local table to check if your
> input matches the answers. This is much faster than using a script
> event on character entry to pass the character up to the server to then
> have the server's script validate the input, and then issue a response
> as to whether you input the correct character. You might want to
> retrieve your purchase history, and look at it later in another web
> session, and the still-valid data that was downloaded can be reused
> rather than having the server recompile your purchase history. There
> are lots of uses for sites to download and retain data on your host, and
> the intent is for that data to survive across web sessions.
>
> Cookies (text files) can only store a few kilobytes of data for reuse in
> the next web session with the same site. Local storage can store
> megabytes of data, and it is faster to access the local cache than to
> re-retrieve the data. Quite often the data are preferences of your
> account when you are logged in, or the state of your web session, and
> cookies just cannot hold all that data, so local storage is used.
> Instead of the server maintaining some huge list of items you added to
> an order, and because it really shouldn't be the onus of the server to
> track what you intended to order but didn't complete, the order could be
> stored in local data for reuse when you revisit the site to continue
> with the order. You might want to delete cookies (mostly for logins)
> and other locally cached data, but retain the site data stored locally
> for the next web session with the same site.
>
> Site data also stores your preferences with a site that have nothing to
> do with anything the site would retain. For example, you might
> configure Firefox to prompt anytime a site wants your geo location, but
> it can be a nuisance to answer the prompt every time you revisit a site
> to again allow it to have geo permission. The server writes cookies
> files, but your browser-specific preferences are not part of any cookie,
> so those preferences get save in a local cache used by the browser to
> know what you previously selected for preferences at the site.
>
> Site preferences is what YOU specified to use when [re]visiting the same
> site. Since the intent is to reuse those preferences when you next
> visit the same site, it is not appropriate to include them when deleting
> locally cached data unless YOU want to start from scratch again on your
> next revisit to set your preferences again. Perhaps you do want
> preferences to be per-session only. Site preferences is included in the
> browser data that you mention. Your choice to purge it, or not.
>
> Sites can also download data to your browser to retain locally for reuse
> later. As mentioned, cookies are small, so they would be inappropiate
> to store a database or any large data set. Site data used to be called
> DOM Storate or local storage; see:
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Storage_API
>
> DOM Storage is used by the server to save data on your host that is
> relevant to your account, order, state, or other data appropriate to
> when you visited a site. For example, when visiting a crossword site,
> they may download a table of entries for each Across or Down entry along
> with the answer. The page script can then use the table to check your
> input, like to show if a letter is correct or not, or to verify a word
> you entered was correct. Having to send each character when input to
> the server to have the server check a table up there and then send a
> response back regarding status would be far slower, and make response on
> the crossword puzzle appear very slow. This is considered user data: it
> is the table for the crossword you are solving. Accessing a local copy
> of the crossword is far faster than doing verification up to and back
> from the server.
>
> You can clean ALL locally stored data on Firefox's exit. Go to
> about:preferences#privacy -> History -> Settings, and select all data
> types.
>
> "Site settings" are what YOU decided to specify when you visited a site,
> and can be reused on your next revisit to the same site. Up to you if
> you want to reuse those setting to avoid having to specify them again,
> or purge them to start all over with setting preferences at the site.
> "Offline website data" is DOM Storage aka local storage.
>
> My personal choice is to configure Firefox to purge ALL of its locally
> cached data on its exit: history (browsing & download, cookies, active
> logins (*note), [web page] cache, form & search history, and I include
> site settings (preferences YOU specified, if any) and offline website
> data (DOM/local storage). That also means I start from scratch when I
> revisit a site, but it also prevents tracking between web sessions. I
> rarely alter site preferences (i.e., allow geolocation), but I may need
> it during a web session to navigate around the site, but I don't want it
> remembered in the next web session to the site. DOM/local storage is to
> save user data on your host that is far too large to store in cookies.
>
> https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/cookies-vs-local-storage-2f3732c7d977
>
> User-specified preferences is small, not appropriate to store in
> cookies, and don't need to use local storage (for huge data sets), so
> preferences are stored in a local cache.
>
> No idea why you present the data clearing pages when you start Firefox
> and where you have to manually do the purging rather than having Firefox
> purge the same data you selected on its exit.
>
> Despite clearing all locally cached data (either your way on startup, or
> my way on exit), that is a purge operation, and does not affect what
> gets stored DURING a web session. That you saw Google listed under
> SiteData means you visited there since you loaded Firefox, you are using
> the home page feature of showing recently visited sites, and one was
> Google, or an add-on is accessing Google (e.g., Google's SafeBrowsing
> feature in Firefox). Purging doesn't prevent regathering the data
> during a web session. Plus, we don't know if you added exclusions to
> the purging selections.

Oops, see you chose to use Google Chrome. That doesn't have an option
to purge locally cached data on its exit. You need to install an add-on
to do that, like Click&Clean. Google's Chrome doesn't permit add-ons
from purging locally cached data on exit, so add-ons have to pend the
cleanup until the next load of Chrome for when the add-on also gets
loaded. So, you doing the front-end cleanup is similar to how add-ons
have to do front-end cleanup.

Site preferences are still a browser cache of settings you specified for
a site. DOM/local storage is also used by Chrome. I don't think any
web browser doesn't support DOM Storage unless it is very old, or is
specifically for minimalistic use, like Lynx (text only web browser).
Despite you purging the local data, that doesn't prevent it from
accumulating again in your next web session. Since you are using
Google's web browser, you probably don't even have to visit a Google
site nor does any add-on need to access Google. The browser itself
could be connecting to Google, and why you see Google showing up as soon
as you load Chrome. Firefox has an article on how to kill most of its
telemetry and other connections when it starts up. I don't know what
can be done to Chrome to force it to make no connections when simply
loading it (without going to any web site specified by the user).

1
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