In article <t2bjgn$o32$1@gioia.aioe.org>, R.Wieser
<address@not.available> wrote:

> IOW, all I have been talking about is how to get at the actual posts.

you were told how to get at the actual posts.

> I did not specify how, or made any suggestions in a direction that Facebook
> should change its ways to accomodate me (would not mind if they did though

the only changes facebook (and other sites) will make is to actively
block people like you, who try to get around the security they've put
in place, for reasons that should be obvious.

> Heck, my initial post even mentioned the possiblity that some proxy website
> would do the extraction for, and just deliver the (plain text with a
> possible touch of HTML) result to me.

such a site would require javascript, which rules you out. it would
also require logging into facebook to access restricted content, which
also rules you out. such a site violates facebook's terms of service,
which means if it did exist, facebook would almost certainly take
action to shut it down.

> Yes, I did mention a few times that all I got was a page full of JS

that should be the first clue that you're doing something very wrong.

In article <t2bsru$i1f$2@gioia.aioe.org>, R.Wieser
<address@not.available> wrote:

> > Andy is explaining to you, that Facebook is such a fortress.
>
> And I asked how I could penetrate the de walls of that fortress.

and you were told that you cannot.

if that were possible, then facebook's security would be worthless.

> In fact,
> I already suggested that someone could just go in for me, grab the goods and
> than bring them out. That would suffice for my needs. Penetration
> accomplished. :-)

that's your solution. ask someone who uses facebook to access the posts
and send you screen shots.

>
> > Let's try another strawman.
> >
> > "Hey guys, I thought it would be cool to dump all the bank
> > balances of the customers at my bank."
>
> Yeah, sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to get at there.

you do understand that you're trying to bypass the security that the
website has put in place, which is also a violation of the terms of
service and is also illegal, right?

In article <t2bsrv$i1f$3@gioia.aioe.org>, R.Wieser
<address@not.available> wrote:

> > Sorry, I thought you wanted to 'extract' the content?
>
> Nope, just read it.

which requires extracting it first.

> I will probably have to mimic some of Facebooks own
> extraction process to be able to do that though.

good luck on that. you've already said you can't read or understand
javascript, which means reimplementing what it does is going to be
extraordinarily difficult.

> > Why would anyone offer that? Can't see it being to many people's benefit.
>
> Why do people have hobbies ? Why do people look at movies or listen to
> music ? Why do people create collections of worthless stuff (teabag
> labels, sigar bands, stamps, you name it) All a great waste of time if you
> ask me.

there's a difference between a hobby and trying to reimplement facebook.

> On the other hand ... someone here already posted about exactly such a site
> for Twitter.

twitter is not facebook.

unlike facebook, nearly all content on twitter is public, without the
need to have an account or log in. twitter also has an api to access
tweets, which is how there are numerous third party twitter apps as
well as such sites.

> As I have
> zero experinece with VMs (and probably not running an OS on which I can do
> that) I thought about a dedicated OS install on a Raspberry Pi. Even
> better, as it than has absolutily no chance of leaking information (thru the
> VMs walls - in either way) anywhere.

simply using a vm will still leak information to facebook.

facebook knows all of the tricks and then some. trying to outsmart it
is extremely difficult and it only takes *one* slip to shatter any
walls.

> > What you're asking for is generally known as pissing into the wind ...
>
> Yeah, you're probably right.

not probably. he *is* right.

> I should tell my country (EU) that they
> should just drop those customer privacy laws too. I mean, who can really
> withstand those big companies, right ?

you should tell your country that you are actively trying to violate
those privacy laws by accessing content to which you are not entitled
and likely violating numerous other laws as well.

In article <t2c821$1m8p$2@gioia.aioe.org>, R.Wieser
<address@not.available> wrote:

> Its funny though : when 'puters got harddisks /everyone/ was warned *not* to
> just copy stuff from another computer onto a floppy and run it on their own
> computers. Nowerdays people who took that warning to heart (like me) are
> considered oddities ...

no, they were warned to not copy stuff from *untrusted* *sources*.

that's very different than downloading from established developers,
which includes visiting their web sites.

> > So yes, you can have a web link which will load a Facebook page or group
> > post
>
> So no.

he is right. you are not.

it *is* possible to have a link to facebook content that does not
require logging in and in some cases, without needing javascript.

it's not common, but it's certainly possible.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| There are no good or evil tools. You can put an
| engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee, Radio Times
| 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.

He was writing some years ago about the problem of "silos",
or closed systems online. But I think it's actually worse than that.
Companies have websites, services, advertising, devices all tied
together. I'd like to see Berners-Lee take a more active role.

On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 13:06:34 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:

> In article <t2ai5q$j2c$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana wrote...
>>
>> "Philip Herlihy" <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote
>>
>>| A great deal of what you say has truth in it (as I've come to expect).
>> But
>>| I've seen a lot of good done in social media, and Facebook in particular.
>>
>> I have nothing against social media as a concept. The trouble
>> is with exploitive, commercial venues. But I expect that will never
>> be solved. Most people just don't want to run their own life if
>> they can find someone else to do it for them.
>>
>>| If you're interested, the Values, etc can be found here:
>>| http://leytonstone.life/
>>

Hmm; that site looks like a lot of effort has been put into it - was
it worth it? The population of Leytonstone (60k or so - Wikipedia)
must be suitably grateful. Perhaps other areas nearby (Woodford,
even Chingford) should have similar websites put up - volunteers?

In article <1chjpoa6mgv3r.dlg@example1357.net>, mechanic wrote...
>
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 13:06:34 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>
> > In article <t2ai5q$j2c$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana wrote...
> >>
> >> "Philip Herlihy" <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote
> >>
> >>| A great deal of what you say has truth in it (as I've come to expect).
> >> But
> >>| I've seen a lot of good done in social media, and Facebook in particular.
> >>
> >> I have nothing against social media as a concept. The trouble
> >> is with exploitive, commercial venues. But I expect that will never
> >> be solved. Most people just don't want to run their own life if
> >> they can find someone else to do it for them.
> >>
> >>| If you're interested, the Values, etc can be found here:
> >>| http://leytonstone.life/
> >>
>
> Hmm; that site looks like a lot of effort has been put into it - was
> it worth it? The population of Leytonstone (60k or so - Wikipedia)
> must be suitably grateful. Perhaps other areas nearby (Woodford,
> even Chingford) should have similar websites put up - volunteers?

I did the work, both devising the principles, putting the site up and for six
years acting as principal administrator. Yes, I think it was worth it. Online
communities can go sour very quickly, and we've maintainted standards of
conduct that other local groups have struggled with.

--

Phil, London

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote in
news:t2bsrv$i1f$3@gioia.aioe.org:

>> Can't you setup a "readonly" VM where you'll allow
>> yourself to run a browser with JS enabled, then shut it
>> down after you've read what you want?
>
> See, you /can/ think of possibilities when you put your
> mind to it. :-)

LOL....so something that violates one of your ABSOLUTE requirements *is* a possibility?

DanS,

> LOL....so something that violates one of your ABSOLUTE
> requirements *is* a possibility?

Lol ! You have no clue what "in context" means, right ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On 4/16/2022 9:07 AM, DanS wrote:
> "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote in
> news:t2bsrv$i1f$3@gioia.aioe.org:
>
>
>>> Can't you setup a "readonly" VM where you'll allow
>>> yourself to run a browser with JS enabled, then shut it
>>> down after you've read what you want?
>>
>> See, you /can/ think of possibilities when you put your
>> mind to it. :-)
>
> LOL....so something that violates one of your ABSOLUTE requirements *is* a possibility?
>

The VMs don't even have to be visible (rooted).

In this example, the second Firefox is a Linux one :-)

https://i.postimg.cc/1zbdH9mP/two-different-firefoxes.gif

I just got that working yesterday. The XClock in the picture,
some Microsoft article suggested it would be fun to run that,
so I did.

On Windows 7 Pro, "WinXP Mode" runs rootless. Which is the last
time I had a rootless setup.

Paul

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote in news:t3ei4v$t4h$1@gioia.aioe.org:

> DanS,
>
>> LOL....so something that violates one of your ABSOLUTE
>> requirements *is* a possibility?
>
> Lol ! You have no clue what "in context" means, right ?

The "context" was that you absolutely refused to want to run any *random* scripts inside
a browser.

DanS,

>> Lol ! You have no clue what "in context" means, right ?
>
> The "context" was that you absolutely refused to want to run any
> *random* scripts inside a browser.

Thats *your* context, not mine as in the post you replied to. Try again.

Hint, read a few posts going back up this subthread. You might notice that
Andy tried to make it sound as if there was /but one/ solution - enable JS
in my browser. Even though other possibilities where already mentioned.

And I give you another hint : the difference is, as shown in this post, my
"my browser" against your "a browser". just two letters making a world of
difference.

Heck, in the post you replied to I mentioned that I had already considered
using a Raspberry Pi as a dedicated machine for it. But somehow you
absolutily missed (all of) that ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote in
news:t3h4c2$nem$1@gioia.aioe.org:

> DanS,
>
>>> Lol ! You have no clue what "in context" means, right ?
>>
>> The "context" was that you absolutely refused to want to
>> run any *random* scripts inside a browser.
>
> Thats *your* context, not mine as in the post you replied
> to. Try again.

You're a liar. That was your main crybaby whine.

I've read far too much of this entrie thread. You repetetively repeated this requirement
following post after post telling you not using JS is virtually impossible for what you
wanted to do.

>And I give you another hint : the difference is, as shown in this post, my
>"my browser" against your "a browser". just two letters making a world of
>difference.

Your "hints" are just another way for you to backlpeddle and be good little Usenet troll
moving the goal posts, and being cryptic and ambiguous.

I'm done with you.

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote

| > Thats *your* context, not mine as in the post you replied
| > to. Try again.
| | You're a liar. That was your main crybaby whine.
|

He's actually a talented programmer, but he enjoys
being adversarial and likes an impossible challenge. So
he does things like ask in the scripting group how one
can have sex via command line while using a VBScript
to edit the 7th layer of a Paint Shop Pro image. We try
to explain that WSH doesn't recognize .PSP format, but
he won't listen. He just answers, "That's not what I
asked, fool! Go away, little boy, if you can't say anything
helpful!" :)

DanS,

> You're a liar.

Prove it. You only need to quote what I said and than how I later said
something else. That should be easy, right ? Good luck. I won't hold my
breath though. Make a wild guess why.

And while you are at it, also try to respond to my "Andy tried to make it
sound as if there was /but one/ solution" statement, like by quoting where
he said *something different* than 'just enable JS' (and no, thats not a
quote).

> You repetetively repeated this requirement following post after
> post telling you not using JS is virtually impossible for what you
> wanted to do.

:-) Kid, people with no skills whatsoever will declare *everything* is
impossible.

Like you. You have zero idea about how it could be done differently, so you
tell me that its "virtually impossible"(1) - fully (purposely?) ignoring the
times people (including myself) have already mentioned something different.

And yes, I "repetetively repeated this requirement" to those nitwits who
kept "suggesting" that I use JS anyway.

I could give you another hint to look a few posts back to find someone
mentioning something to circumvent twitters login + JS requirement (similar
to facebook), but as you seem to be allergic to hints I won't. :-)

(1) Quite a nice "escape hatch" you build yourself there. Now if someone
comes by with a solution or when I create one myself you yourself can always
backpeddle by pointing that that, right ? :-p

> Your "hints" are just another way for you to backlpeddle and be
> good little Usenet troll moving the goal posts, and being cryptic
> and ambiguous.

You're free to quote where and how I was/am "moving the goal posts". Up
until that you're just one of those "claim a lot, prove nothing" blowhards.

So, I expect that your next post contains proof of your accusations. When
not or you try to backpeddle yourself I won't hesitate to call you out on
it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Mayayana,

> he enjoys being adversarial and likes an impossible
> challenge.

:-) If it was only that ...

Most of what I ask is something stupid I run into while trying to accomplish
something else.

> So he does things like ask in the scripting group how one
> can have sex via command line while using a VBScript
> to edit the 7th layer of a Paint Shop Pro image.

:-) I do not even have PSP, but I get the gist of it.

By the way, which subject was that ? Somehow I now want to read that
back...

> We try to explain that WSH doesn't recognize .PSP format,
> but he won't listen.

As a (hobby) programmer I know that pretty-much nothing computer-related is
impossible, it just takes more time, energy and/or knowledge.

> He just answers, "That's not what I asked, fool! Go away,
> little boy, if you can't say anything helpful!" :)

True, I do not respond well to "I don't know how to do it, so its impossible
that someone else will be able to" or "I've never heard of it, so it doesn't
exist" kind of replies - especially not when I get told that several times
over in the same thread (like now).

What I normally ask for is /suggestions/. Maybe something I forgot to take
into consideration, or something I did not know existed. You know,
*possibilities*. I can wel do without the "you should not even /want/ to do
that" responders. :-(

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote

| > So he does things like ask in the scripting group how one
| > can have sex via command line while using a VBScript
| > to edit the 7th layer of a Paint Shop Pro image.
| | :-) I do not even have PSP, but I get the gist of it.
| | By the way, which subject was that ? Somehow I now want to read that
| back...
|

I'm not going to tell you how to have sex via command line.
Then everyone would want to do it.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote

> | > So he does things like ask in the scripting group how one
> | > can have sex via command line while using a VBScript
> | > to edit the 7th layer of a Paint Shop Pro image.
> |
> | :-) I do not even have PSP, but I get the gist of it.
> |
> | By the way, which subject was that ? Somehow I now want to read that
> | back...
> |

> I'm not going to tell you how to have sex via command line.
> Then everyone would want to do it.

unzip; strip; touch; finger; grep; mount; fsck; more; yes; fsck; fsck; umount; clean; sleep
--
Yesterday was still kind of crowded outside. The Batman was overrated!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Mayayana,

> I'm not going to tell you how to have sex via command line.
> Then everyone would want to do it.

:-p

But seriously, if you can remember where you think I pulled such shennigans
I would like to re-read it - if only to see if I can, looking back,
recognise in it what you said.

You see, I might be a bit direct (focussed on getting a problem solved or at
least getting to know why it can't be solved), but normally have no
intention being offensive.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote

| But seriously, if you can remember where you think I pulled such
shennigans
| I would like to re-read it - if only to see if I can, looking back,
| recognise in it what you said.
| | You see, I might be a bit direct (focussed on getting a problem solved or
at
| least getting to know why it can't be solved), but normally have no
| intention being offensive.

You're almost always offensive. That's OK. Everyone seems
to be a bit more Aspergers online.

Mayayana,

> You're almost always offensive.

I can't say I enjoy hearing that ... As said, not my intention.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In article <t3o9hm$1omu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, R.Wieser wrote...
>
> Mayayana,
>
> > You're almost always offensive.
>
> I can't say I enjoy hearing that ... As said, not my intention.
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

If you mean that, then a little diplomacy will avoid a lot of unpleasantness,
which itself is a distraction from the issue at hand.

Most people responding (most of the time) are trying to be helpful.

If you are carrying some misapprehension, someone who points that out is doing
you a favour, and one I've learned to value.

If you allow yourself to get heated, then you're more likely to damage your own
reputation than to "score" any meaningful "points" in any argument.

Here, I think much of the friction, and your (understandable) impatience
actually arose from a lack of the right emphasis in your original question. We
understand now that you prefer (strongly, it seems) not to allow JS to run in
your browser. That's becoming less common, even among those with the expertise
to understand the issues involved, but most people would still readily accept
that as a premise for your question - provided it's importance to you is
signalled clearly. I'll readily admit that your reference to "random scripts"
went right over my head. Was that my fault for not stopping to ponder what you
must mean by that, or your fault for expressing your preference obliquely?
Most likely both.

Usenet (or whatever we should call these groups these days) is not an arena for
competition but for cooperation - for sharing, and for mutual help. So let's
all be a bit kinder to our fellow-travellers here.

--

Phil, London

Philip,

> If you mean that, then a little diplomacy will avoid a lot of
> unpleasantness, which itself is a distraction from the issue at hand.

If you have a suggestion to how to deal with people who refuse to even read
the question - or think they can just discard requirements mentioned in it
because its inconvenient to them - than I'm all ears.

> Most people responding (most of the time) are trying to be helpful.

I've got a different experience. Just take the number of people here who
just tried to convince me to enable JS in my browser and be done with it.
Not the kind of "help" I asked for or need.

> That's becoming less common, even among those with the expertise
> to understand the issues involved, but most people would still readily
> accept
> that as a premise for your question - provided it's importance to you is
> signalled clearly.

I mentioned not wanting to run random scripts as one of just two conditions
in my initial question/post. I assumed that that would be enough to
indicate its importance to me. But if you have a suggestion to how to
express such a thing better, I'm again all ears.

> I'll readily admit that your reference to "random scripts" went right
> over my head. Was that my fault for not stopping to ponder what you
> must mean by that, or your fault for expressing your preference obliquely?
> Most likely both.

:-) There is no way anyone can express himself in such a way that
/everyone/ will be able to understand it. That is why a question is
normally the start of a dialog.

I have to ask though : even if the "random" in it was not clear enough for
you, how come you missed the "no scripts" (in my browser) part ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote

| > You're almost always offensive.
| | I can't say I enjoy hearing that ... As said, not my intention.
|

I'm not easily offended, so it was meant partially as a joke.
But it doesn't take much to set off a lot of people. Then we get
long arguments about whose grandmother wears army boots.

I'm afraid we're all getting old. And Windows is no longer
worth fixing. And far fewer people are doing independent
programming. So we're left with arguments about grandmothers
wearing army boot... and John Gilliver occasionally scolding us
for not performing British politeness.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 at 16:07:07, Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote
>
>| > You're almost always offensive.
>|
>| I can't say I enjoy hearing that ... As said, not my intention.
>|
>
> I'm not easily offended, so it was meant partially as a joke.
>But it doesn't take much to set off a lot of people. Then we get
>long arguments about whose grandmother wears army boots.
>
> I'm afraid we're all getting old. And Windows is no longer
>worth fixing. And far fewer people are doing independent
>programming. So we're left with arguments about grandmothers
>wearing army boot... and John Gilliver occasionally scolding us
>for not performing British politeness.
>
Wow, never thought of myself in that role! I can lapse into rudeness
too, I'm afraid - I'm sure I have with you occasionally, for example,
for which I apologise (and in advance as I'll probably do it again).
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in
silencing the one than the one - if he had the power - would be justified in
silencing mankind. -John Stuart Mill, philosopher and economist (1806-1873)