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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: Defender Remastered

SubjectAuthor
* Defender RemasteredSpalls Hurgenson
+- Re: Defender RemasteredAnt
+* Re: Defender RemasteredJAB
|`* Re: Defender RemasteredWerner P.
| `- Re: Defender RemasteredSpalls Hurgenson
+* Re: Defender RemasteredWerner P.
|`- Re: Defender RemasteredSpalls Hurgenson
`* Re: Defender RemasteredAnssi Saari
 +* Re: Defender RemasteredJustisaur
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 |`* Re: Defender RemasteredWerner P.
 | `* Re: Defender RemasteredJAB
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 |    +- Re: Defender RemasteredAnt
 |    `- Re: Defender RemasteredWerner P.
 `- Re: Defender RemasteredJAB

1
Defender Remastered

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Defender Remastered
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 20:19:53 -0500
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 01:19 UTC

So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
https://tank-king.itch.io/defender

I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
share the link.

As I've mentioned in the past, I never delved too deeply into the
arcade scene, instead transitioning to home PCs. Still, even on home
PCs you couldn't escape the arcade, and many games - including
Defender, were ported to the 8-bit computers. In fact, it was only
years later that I learned that "Defender" actually did originate in
the arcade; although I knew that games like "Asteroids" and "Pac-Man"
and even "Street Fighter" started out on the quarter-munching
cabinets, it never occurred to me that "Defender" shared the same
origin story.

And - back in the day - "Defender" was probably one of the action
games I enjoyed the most. It probably helped that it scrolled
horizontally, which better fit the shape of a computer monitor; games
like "Space Invaders" always felt crowded on our screens. I also
really enjoyed the variety of having to rescue the little humans in
addition to just shooting things; it added more depth to the
simplistic gameplay. The version I played - on the Apple ][ I think -
also had a special 'hyperspace mode' between levels where you flew
through space in an entirely different game mode.

Still, I'm in no immediate rush to go back and play this old classic,
'remastered' or not. If I need a space-shooter fix, I'll just fire up
"Wing Commander" or something. Same basic concept, better sound and
graphics. ;-)

Re: Defender Remastered

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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
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 by: Ant - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 04:44 UTC

PW <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Feb 2022 20:19:53 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> >So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
> >https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
> >
> >I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
> >number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
> >share the link.
> >
> >As I've mentioned in the past, I never delved too deeply into the
> >arcade scene, instead transitioning to home PCs. Still, even on home
> >PCs you couldn't escape the arcade, and many games - including
> >Defender, were ported to the 8-bit computers. In fact, it was only
> >years later that I learned that "Defender" actually did originate in
> >the arcade; although I knew that games like "Asteroids" and "Pac-Man"
> >and even "Street Fighter" started out on the quarter-munching
> >cabinets, it never occurred to me that "Defender" shared the same
> >origin story.
> >
> >And - back in the day - "Defender" was probably one of the action
> >games I enjoyed the most. It probably helped that it scrolled
> >horizontally, which better fit the shape of a computer monitor; games
> >like "Space Invaders" always felt crowded on our screens. I also
> >really enjoyed the variety of having to rescue the little humans in
> >addition to just shooting things; it added more depth to the
> >simplistic gameplay. The version I played - on the Apple ][ I think -
> >also had a special 'hyperspace mode' between levels where you flew
> >through space in an entirely different game mode.
> >
> >Still, I'm in no immediate rush to go back and play this old classic,
> >'remastered' or not. If I need a space-shooter fix, I'll just fire up
> >"Wing Commander" or something. Same basic concept, better sound and
> >graphics. ;-)
> >
> >

> *---

> Oh boy. I can't even remember how many rolls of quarters I put into
> this game!

I don't even remember playing it in the arcade. I do remember playing it
on Atari 2600 and my Apple //c!

> What company came out with it? Was it MidWay?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defender_%281981_video_game%29 says
Williams Electronics.

--
:) (L/C)NY (h2o tiger) & Black History Mo. Dang tiredness, sickness, bodies, works, times, colony, nest, tech, life, issues, etc. When will this groundhog day end? :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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Re: Defender Remastered

<stln8u$naq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: now...@co.uk (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 11:32:44 +0000
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 by: JAB - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 11:32 UTC

On 04/02/2022 01:19, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
> https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
>
> I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
> number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
> share the link.
>

[snip]

It's certainly an icon of the arcade scene (at least in the UK) and it
was one of the very few games I remember where you'd have multiple
cabinets in the same arcade.

Personally though, I can't say I ever got into it although I saw it
played a lot as one was next to R-Type which is on my all time list of
great arcade games. I still remember what was dubbed Defender stance
which was a 'special' way of standing while playing. Those where the days!

Overall I have a lot of nostalgia for what I think of the era that was
the golden age of arcades combined with the first affordable home
computers. The problem is that nostalgia can't get me over the part of
me which says the games just aren't that much fun.

Re: Defender Remastered

<stm82d$vnv$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:19:25 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 16:19 UTC

Am 04.02.22 um 02:19 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
> https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
Not sure whether I like that one or not, given it does not update the
graphics at all. One of the PS4 Launchtitles was an excellent defender
inspired game, I just cannot remember its name. But instead of going
for a clone without updated graphics I would look for that one.

Re: Defender Remastered

<stm87n$vnv$2@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:22:15 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 16:22 UTC

Am 05.02.22 um 12:32 schrieb JAB:
>
> Overall I have a lot of nostalgia for what I think of the era that was
> the golden age of arcades combined with the first affordable home
> computers. The problem is that nostalgia can't get me over the part of
> me which says the games just aren't that much fun.
Yes indeed, nowadays most of those games would be called mini games,
they were fun back then because we did not know any better, but once I
played the first story based games, the arcades were over for me.
I still love to play those games for nostalgia reasons but only a
handful really still can hold the candle nowadays regarding fun, Moon
Patrol is one of them, Defender being close to the border of fun, Pacman
definitely, also I really like what Sega made out of Pitfall 2, but many
arcade games from the 90s are so repetetive and clonish, that I never
got into them later on (90s were basically brawlers shooters and racers
and thats it)

Re: Defender Remastered

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:29 UTC

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:22:15 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>Am 05.02.22 um 12:32 schrieb JAB:

>> Overall I have a lot of nostalgia for what I think of the era that was
>> the golden age of arcades combined with the first affordable home
>> computers. The problem is that nostalgia can't get me over the part of
>> me which says the games just aren't that much fun.

>Yes indeed, nowadays most of those games would be called mini games,
>they were fun back then because we did not know any better, but once I
>played the first story based games, the arcades were over for me.
>I still love to play those games for nostalgia reasons but only a
>handful really still can hold the candle nowadays regarding fun, Moon
>Patrol is one of them, Defender being close to the border of fun, Pacman
>definitely, also I really like what Sega made out of Pitfall 2, but many
>arcade games from the 90s are so repetetive and clonish, that I never
>got into them later on (90s were basically brawlers shooters and racers
>and thats it)

I really remember only a handful of the 'big name' arcade games of the
time: Pong, Pac-Man (and spin offs), Moon Patrol, Spy Hunter, Pole
Position, and Space Invaders are the ones that immediately come to
mind. Which is not to say I don't know of other gamers but I don't
associate them with arcades, and thus those games don't trigger that
sort of nostalgia. They don't have that same sort of historical
relevance; they were just some quickly-forgotten experience I played
on an 8-bit computer that was rapidly superseded by more advanced
games.

I think I've said before, I was only briefly into the arcade scene,
and that only at the start. So "Pong" resonates with me a lot, but
"Afterburner"? That was a console game, right? Oh, it was a huge
arcade hit first? Who knew.

And the arcade sensibilities quickly lost their luster after I
discovered computer games, which were more interested in creating an
experience rather than swallowing quarters. They challenged my mind
more than my reflexes, and often felt more fair. I still played ports
of arcade games (often never knowing that's what they were), but they
were the 'in-between' games I used to cleanse my palette between the
Ultimas and Zorks and Star Treks. As such, while I remember playing
stuff like "Joust" and "Robotron" and "Night Driver", I have far less
emotional attachment to them, and much less incentive to replay the
old classics.

But there's still a part of me that looks quite fondly on "Pong", and
yearns for the simplicity of playing games like "Zork", even if I know
that I really wouldn't enjoy them very much. I've been spoiled by the
added complexities of modern games.

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2022 12:32:09 -0500
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:32 UTC

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:19:25 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 04.02.22 um 02:19 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
>> https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
>Not sure whether I like that one or not, given it does not update the
>graphics at all. One of the PS4 Launchtitles was an excellent defender
>inspired game, I just cannot remember its name. But instead of going
>for a clone without updated graphics I would look for that one.

Well, if you want updated graphics, there's always "Defender 2000",
which came out on the Atari Jaguar.

Of course, then you'd have to play an Atari Jaguar game. Just looking
at its controller makes my hands hurt. ;-)

Re: Defender Remastered

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From: as...@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2022 23:33:40 +0200
Organization: An impatient and LOUD arachnid
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 by: Anssi Saari - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 21:33 UTC

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
> https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
>
> I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
> number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
> share the link.

So... Is it just me or is this remaster really hard? Was the original
this hard too, I've not played it much and can't really remember?

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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 02:56 UTC

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:33:42 PM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
> > https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
> >
> > I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
> > number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
> > share the link.
> So... Is it just me or is this remaster really hard? Was the original
> this hard too, I've not played it much and can't really remember?

Yes insanely hard, the fastest quarter muncher I remember.
A very few people got good at it, which inspired everyone else
to keep pumping those quarters.

- Justisaur

Re: Defender Remastered

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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
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 by: Ant - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 03:46 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:33:42 PM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
> > > https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
> > >
> > > I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
> > > number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
> > > share the link.
> > So... Is it just me or is this remaster really hard? Was the original
> > this hard too, I've not played it much and can't really remember?

> Yes insanely hard, the fastest quarter muncher I remember.
> A very few people got good at it, which inspired everyone else
> to keep pumping those quarters.

Original was hard for me!
--
Beijing's Olympics are back again! ^-^ (L/C)NY (h2o tiger) & Black History Mo. Dang tiredness, sickness, bodies, works, times, colony, nest, tech, life, issues, etc. When will this groundhog day end? :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Re: Defender Remastered

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 05:21:06 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 05:21 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yes insanely hard, the fastest quarter muncher I remember.
>A very few people got good at it, which inspired everyone else
>to keep pumping those quarters.

I remember seeing people play Defender, thinking it looked really hard.
I eventually got the courage to give it a try, but I never played it
again after that. It was even harder than I thought.

Personally I never saw the attraction of really hard games like that.
I mean, sure maybe, I might get half-decent at it eventually, but would
take way more quarters than I was willing to spend.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //

Re: Defender Remastered

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From: now...@co.uk (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 09:16:28 +0000
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 by: JAB - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 09:16 UTC

On 05/02/2022 21:33, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
>> https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
>>
>> I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
>> number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
>> share the link.
>
> So... Is it just me or is this remaster really hard? Was the original
> this hard too, I've not played it much and can't really remember?

Even by the standards of the day it was hard. In looked much like a
sideways shooter but was actually a bit different. So it was faced paced
and you needed to develop a nice rhythm to handle the action. Then
there's the controls. More than normal and you do need to know where
they all are without looking. Then there the height level and reverse
button combo. You really need to learn now only how use the level gently
(quite different from most games) but also do it while keeping your left
thumb free to use reverse.

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From: now...@co.uk (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 09:29:02 +0000
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 by: JAB - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 09:29 UTC

On 06/02/2022 02:56, Justisaur wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:33:42 PM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> So, somebody made a remastered version of Defender.
>>> https://tank-king.itch.io/defender
>>>
>>> I'm not particularly excited by this news, but I know there are a
>>> number of people who enjoy these old arcade shooters, so I thought I'd
>>> share the link.
>> So... Is it just me or is this remaster really hard? Was the original
>> this hard too, I've not played it much and can't really remember?
>
> Yes insanely hard, the fastest quarter muncher I remember.
> A very few people got good at it, which inspired everyone else
> to keep pumping those quarters.
>

I think that was part of the problem of it - yes pretty much all arcade
games were hard, at least by current standards, but it was one you
really had to put the effort in to learn how to play it. With other
games it tended to be a more linear progression of you get a little bit
better for each 10p you put in.

Re: Defender Remastered

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 10:31:41 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 09:31 UTC

Am 06.02.22 um 03:56 schrieb Justisaur:

> Yes insanely hard, the fastest quarter muncher I remember.
> A very few people got good at it, which inspired everyone else
> to keep pumping those quarters.
>
Yes brutally hard, did not help at that time that the game I think had
4-6 buttons...
But it is a very good game nevertheless (not my beer though) it
basically was the first really fast shmup and one of the first arcade
games which were blazingly fast. Sort of a predecessor to the bullet
hell shooter genre.

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From: now...@co.uk (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 11:44:05 +0000
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 by: JAB - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 11:44 UTC

On 06/02/2022 09:31, Werner P. wrote:
> Am 06.02.22 um 03:56 schrieb Justisaur:
>
>> Yes insanely hard, the fastest quarter muncher I remember.
>> A very few people got good at it, which inspired everyone else
>> to keep pumping those quarters.
>>
> Yes brutally hard, did not help at that time that the game I think had
> 4-6 buttons...
> But it is a very good game nevertheless (not my beer though) it
> basically was the first really fast shmup and one of the first arcade
> games which were blazingly fast. Sort of a predecessor to the bullet
> hell shooter genre.
>

Arcade games in general were hard. My favourite, R-Type, was hard but in
a very different way. A lot of the 'skill' can from remembering where
the enemies come from a how to deal with them. The problem came with
boss fights where there would be certain way (non-obvious) way to beat
them and you couldn't just rely on your co-ordination. The problem was
if you died you lost all your power-ups. As you progressed through the
game it came to a certain point where losing a life was pretty much
equivalent to losing all your lives. It was quite an interesting formula
as you'd get to the bad guy, die and the temptation was just another 10p
as you want to try a different approach.

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2022 20:02:17 +0200
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 by: Anssi Saari - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 18:02 UTC

JAB <noway@co.uk> writes:

> Arcade games in general were hard. My favourite, R-Type, was hard but
> in a very different way.

R-Type is one of my old faves too. I actually tried to beat it in Mame
some time ago but I don't think I got past level four, even using
saves. Back in the '80s and '90s I think I made it to level six a couple
of times, the game had eight levels. And of course it was really tedious
to play near-perfectly through all the levels just to try something
where you got stuck the last time...

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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 12:05:09 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 20:05 UTC

On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 10:02:19 AM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
> JAB <no...@co.uk> writes:
>
> > Arcade games in general were hard. My favourite, R-Type, was hard but
> > in a very different way.
> R-Type is one of my old faves too. I actually tried to beat it in Mame
> some time ago but I don't think I got past level four, even using
> saves. Back in the '80s and '90s I think I made it to level six a couple
> of times, the game had eight levels. And of course it was really tedious
> to play near-perfectly through all the levels just to try something
> where you got stuck the last time...

R-Type was a good one. I wouldn't say I loved it, or it would make a top 10
for me for arcade games, but it was up there. I might give it a #1 for
side scrolling shooter though, I can't think of anything better.

- Justisaur

Re: Defender Remastered

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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
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 by: Ant - Mon, 7 Feb 2022 01:30 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 10:02:19 AM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > JAB <no...@co.uk> writes:
> >
> > > Arcade games in general were hard. My favourite, R-Type, was hard but
> > > in a very different way.
> > R-Type is one of my old faves too. I actually tried to beat it in Mame
> > some time ago but I don't think I got past level four, even using
> > saves. Back in the '80s and '90s I think I made it to level six a couple
> > of times, the game had eight levels. And of course it was really tedious
> > to play near-perfectly through all the levels just to try something
> > where you got stuck the last time...

> R-Type was a good one. I wouldn't say I loved it, or it would make a top 10
> for me for arcade games, but it was up there. I might give it a #1 for
> side scrolling shooter though, I can't think of anything better.

Ditto.
--
Beijing's Olympics are back again, but its 2022 opening ceremony wasn't good as its 2008. (L/C)NY (h2o tiger) & Black History Mo. Dang tiredness, sickness, bodies, works, times, colony, nest, tech, life, issues, etc. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Re: Defender Remastered

<str4r6$2a6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
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Subject: Re: Defender Remastered
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 13:55:02 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:55 UTC

Am 06.02.22 um 21:05 schrieb Justisaur:

> R-Type was a good one. I wouldn't say I loved it, or it would make a top 10
> for me for arcade games, but it was up there. I might give it a #1 for
> side scrolling shooter though, I can't think of anything better.
>

Well one of the most famous sidescrolling shooters of the late 80s til
mid 90s era definitely.
R-Type is in the top 10 along with Ghost and Ghoblins and others...

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