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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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* Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
 `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
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     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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        |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?David Brooks
        |   |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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        |   | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris
        |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |      `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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        |    |   ||  | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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        |    |   ||  | |  |   `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |      +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Zaidy036
        |    |   ||  | |      |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |       |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | ||`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?J. P. Gilliver (John)
        |    |   ||     || | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris

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Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<jtus6ht9k2pb1cpk5uaks51os108bgjem7@4ax.com>

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Message-ID: <jtus6ht9k2pb1cpk5uaks51os108bgjem7@4ax.com>
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 by: Joel - Sun, 1 May 2022 12:24 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>> they do actually cost less, especially since graphics chips are being
>>> sold for exorbitant prices. Manufacturers are also a lot better than
>>> most end-users when it comes to cable management.
>>
>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>
>You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>yourself.

I did look. I considered buying a Dell, and other brands. None of
them made the sale. Newegg, however, had parts to build *precisely*
the machine I wanted.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<jd7l56Fbc70U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62072&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62072

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From: rlam...@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 09:52:30 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:52 UTC

On 2022-05-01 6:51 a.m., Joel wrote:
> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> Nope, very few people, statistically speaking, do what I did. Most
>>>>> people who assemble their own computers are buying resold product keys
>>>>> from a third party, but I wouldn't be comfortable with that, even
>>>>> though it's so cheap.
>>>>
>>>> How would you have any idea of the statistics on this? I've never
>>>> bought a "resold product key"...
>>>
>>> It's pretty obvious, there are a lot of product keys for Windows 10
>>> that Microsoft sold to various businesses, and when they go unused,
>>> people will buy them in bulk for next to nothing, and resell them for
>>> a tidy but small profit per key. I could've gotten my key that way,
>>> last year, but I'm not obsessed with saving money. I actually want
>>> Microsoft to have the $200.
>>
>> But what you said was "Most people who assemble their own computers are
>> buying resold product keys from a third party".
>
>
> Right, because self-assemblers are aware of the option, generally.
> They're into computers enough to have heard about this. I just don't
> trust that kind of deal, tough. I *know* for a *fact* that my product
> key is truly only mine, because I bought it directly from Microsoft.
>

I have been building my own machines since 1997, Not only mine but
numerous machines for friends and family, My last 2 builds are about 2
years old, Never had a problem.
Building my own gives me the advantage of using whatever parts I want
and also knowing where every part goes and what it does.

Each machine I build gets a legitimate *full* Microsoft operating
system, bought and paid for.

Wouldn't have it any other way.

Rene

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<0jct6hd2k6ulifc7eda6svonjl66jkc8l9@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 09:18:52 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:18 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 04:34:04 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-30 6:33 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The upgrade to 11 is free you idiot.
>>>
>>> LOL. Indeed it is. The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11 are
>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your machine
>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and then buy
>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>
>>Who buys a machine in one piece?! I did once, my first computer. I ordered it with no OS. I didn't want the thing full of adware. Also it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD. It's called recycling.
>
>
>Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>"just work" when they turn it on the first time.

Yes, but I would change the first word of that sentence from "many" to
"most." I think it's the great majority.

Only techies don't, and some techies even do.

>This is one reason
>Microsoft sells Windows Home so inexpensively on such computers, not
>only does the OEM handle supporting it, but it helps sell their
>product in general - less techie customers get a complete package of
>hardware and software. If everyone had to install Windows themselves,
>it'd put a damper on the market for it (and thus Office and other
>Microsoft software, for that matter).

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:15 UTC

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>>Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>>"just work" when they turn it on the first time.
>
>Yes, but I would change the first word of that sentence from "many" to
>"most." I think it's the great majority.

You're essentially right, yeah. Self-assembled and customized
preassembled machines are a big industry, but not on the scale of Dell
et al.

>Only techies don't, and some techies even do.

True.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<9jqt6hdihv2lcmdhafvbs0r0b4d4c6g9ek@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:16 UTC

Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:

>> I *know* for a *fact* that my product
>> key is truly only mine, because I bought it directly from Microsoft.
>
>I have been building my own machines since 1997, Not only mine but
>numerous machines for friends and family, My last 2 builds are about 2
>years old, Never had a problem.
>Building my own gives me the advantage of using whatever parts I want
>and also knowing where every part goes and what it does.
>
>Each machine I build gets a legitimate *full* Microsoft operating
>system, bought and paid for.
>
>Wouldn't have it any other way.

Absolutely.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1liu6h10mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 2 May 2022 03:40 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-01 4:24 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-04-30 6:33 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:26:57 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/30/2022 6:22 AM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> If no one bought Windows, you'd be stuck with Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or just the last version of Windows. Win-10 suits me fine.
>>>>
>>>> The upgrade to 11 is free you idiot.
>>>
>>> LOL. Indeed it is. The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11 are
>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your machine
>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and then buy
>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>
>> Who buys a machine in one piece?! I did once, my first computer. I
>> ordered it with no OS. I didn't want the thing full of adware. Also
>> it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD. It's called recycling.
>
> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
> they do actually cost less,

Impossible. Your own one you pay for parts. Theirs you pay for the same parts plus the assembly labour.

> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.

And the builder magically doesn't pay more?

> Manufacturers are also a lot better than most end-users when it comes to cable management.

That's the biggest load of shite I've ever heard. I used to (as a hobby) build high end gaming machines (to ther user's spec if they wanted, after I gave them sensible options) and sell them on Ebay. Mine were 5 times neater inside than anything you could buy in a shop, and I sold them £100 cheaper, while making £100 for myself. So £200 cheaper.

I also repaired machines, I was brought those so-called professionally built ones from shops, with cables caught in fan blades! I was the only person I've ever seen who fitted a guard over the CPU fan. I was brought one where it kept going exceedingly slowly. The CPU heatsink had actually fallen off and it was severely thermally throttling.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1liy17jcmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62093&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62093

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 2 May 2022 05:04 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 10:46:19 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 09:29:08 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:41:04 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-30 7:59 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, Microsoft just wants you to pay once. It's a sensible thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not what Microsoft wants; it's merely what it does to counter
>>>>>> Apple's own decision. If they could get away with it, they'd charge for
>>>>>> the upgrade from 8.1 to 10, then the one to 11 and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually don't think so. Even when Windows 8 was released, they had
>>>>> an introductory price, to get the Pro edition upgrade, for $40, which
>>>>> I did. And then, 10 was a free upgrade over 7 and 8. I think
>>>>> Microsoft has recognized that new versions are just a type of update,
>>>>> at the end of the day - they want people to use the most recent
>>>>> version, presuming their hardware supports it.
>>>>
>>>> This wasn't always the case.
>>>
>>> I realize that, I suggested as much.
>>
>> I clarified your waffle, you may thank me with a beer.
>
> There was nothing "clarify", dumbfuck, what I said was entirely
> correct.

But 6 times longer. Go be a politician.

> You can stick to being an expert at using warez.

Actually it's easier than the real thing. I've never come across the upgrading to windows 8.1 loses your serial number nonsense for a start. Can't lose what you don't have.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<MiKbK.21277$sdfb.6228@fx41.iad>

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 by: Bill - Mon, 2 May 2022 05:50 UTC

On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:

>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>
> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
> yourself.
>
>

The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
warranty--though I never had to use it. All of the other parts have a
warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an incentive
for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
did have to replace its GPU last year).

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1li2d6d7mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:16 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>
>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>
>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>> yourself.
>
> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
> warranty--though I never had to use it. All of the other parts have a
> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an incentive
> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
> did have to replace its GPU last year).

And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they would honour a 10 year warranty. The shop probably wouldn't even exist by then.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1li2fpjxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:17 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 21:15:20 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>>> Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>>> "just work" when they turn it on the first time.
>>
>> Yes, but I would change the first word of that sentence from "many" to
>> "most." I think it's the great majority.
>
> You're essentially right, yeah. Self-assembled and customized
> preassembled machines are a big industry, but not on the scale of Dell
> et al.

Dell is for offices. And they suck.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1li2ghh7mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62099&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62099

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 07:18:07 +0100
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:18 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 17:18:52 +0100, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 01 May 2022 04:34:04 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-30 6:33 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The upgrade to 11 is free you idiot.
>>>>
>>>> LOL. Indeed it is. The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11 are
>>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your machine
>>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and then buy
>>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>>
>>> Who buys a machine in one piece?! I did once, my first computer. I ordered it with no OS. I didn't want the thing full of adware. Also it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD. It's called recycling.
>>
>>
>> Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>> "just work" when they turn it on the first time.
>
> Yes, but I would change the first word of that sentence from "many" to
> "most." I think it's the great majority.

The majority of people are stupid, that doesn't mean they're right. This is why democracy fails.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<kVPbK.671397$mF2.112197@fx11.iad>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62109&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62109

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 by: rabidR04CH - Mon, 2 May 2022 12:13 UTC

On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-01 4:24 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-04-30 6:33 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:26:57 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/30/2022 6:22 AM, Joel wrote:
>>>>>> If no one bought Windows, you'd be stuck with Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or just the last version of Windows.  Win-10 suits me fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> The upgrade to 11 is free you idiot.
>>>>
>>>> LOL. Indeed it is. The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11
>>>> are
>>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your machine
>>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and then buy
>>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>>
>>> Who buys a machine in one piece?!  I did once, my first computer.  I
>>> ordered it with no OS.  I didn't want the thing full of adware.  Also
>>> it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD.  It's called recycling.
>>
>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>> they do actually cost less,
>
> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
> same parts plus the assembly labour.

Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.

>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>
> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?

See above.

>> Manufacturers are also a lot better than most end-users when it comes
>> to cable management.
>
> That's the biggest load of shite I've ever heard.  I used to (as a
> hobby) build high end gaming machines (to ther user's spec if they
> wanted, after I gave them sensible options) and sell them on Ebay.  Mine
> were 5 times neater inside than anything you could buy in a shop, and I
> sold them £100 cheaper, while making £100 for myself.  So £200 cheaper.
>
> I also repaired machines, I was brought those so-called professionally
> built ones from shops, with cables caught in fan blades!  I was the only
> person I've ever seen who fitted a guard over the CPU fan.  I was
> brought one where it kept going exceedingly slowly.  The CPU heatsink
> had actually fallen off and it was severely thermally throttling.

I don't believe you at all.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<DWPbK.671398$mF2.463578@fx11.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62110&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62110

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 by: rabidR04CH - Mon, 2 May 2022 12:14 UTC

On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>
>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>
>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>> yourself.
>>
>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>> warranty--though I never had to use it.  All of the other parts have a
>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an incentive
>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>
> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
> would honour a 10 year warranty.  The shop probably wouldn't even exist
> by then.

I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
elsewhere, friend.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<rtiv6h5o5d73lose80ri7v9dob00fgm4l6@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62111&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62111

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Mon, 2 May 2022 12:18 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>
>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>> warranty--though I never had to use it.  All of the other parts have a
>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an incentive
>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>
>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>> would honour a 10 year warranty.  The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>> by then.
>
>I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>elsewhere, friend.

Welcome to the joys of debating the Commander.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<r0jv6hlipucnvoug7rus47et0lpe85t4pk@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62112&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62112

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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References: <op.1kwebzkfmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <3plu5hdljdi048vkng9p3frhmahm2199v8@4ax.com> <op.1k5bvnr2mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <q95d6h5o1e76o9s4kh88h2irnvmelct63a@4ax.com> <op.1lfikndqmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <7t2q6h9qrb4fmffbadj9vqecge3qt136ft@4ax.com> <S98bK.17955$zkv4.5169@fx39.iad> <op.1lfoxbf4mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <zj9bK.161501$Kdf.94056@fx96.iad> <op.1lhdmzgxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <yLubK.387965$f2a5.144253@fx48.iad> <op.1liu6h10mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <kVPbK.671397$mF2.112197@fx11.iad>
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 by: Joel - Mon, 2 May 2022 12:20 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>> they do actually cost less,
>>
>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>
>Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
>they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>
>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>>
>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>
>See above.

Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<J8RbK.690636$LN2.324888@fx13.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62114&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62114

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 by: rabidR04CH - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:37 UTC

On 2022-05-02 2:17 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2022 21:15:20 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>>>> "just work" when they turn it on the first time.
>>>
>>> Yes, but I would change the first word of that sentence from "many" to
>>> "most." I think it's the great majority.
>>
>> You're essentially right, yeah.  Self-assembled and customized
>> preassembled machines are a big industry, but not on the scale of Dell
>> et al.
>
> Dell is for offices.  And they suck.

I have to agree that Dell sucks. Of course, just about everything
manufactured in the United States is garbage.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<PaRbK.690637$LN2.570742@fx13.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62115&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62115

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Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
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<op.1lfoxbf4mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <zj9bK.161501$Kdf.94056@fx96.iad>
<op.1lhdmzgxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <yLubK.387965$f2a5.144253@fx48.iad>
<op.1liu6h10mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <kVPbK.671397$mF2.112197@fx11.iad>
<r0jv6hlipucnvoug7rus47et0lpe85t4pk@4ax.com>
From: rab...@r04.ch (rabidR04CH)
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Organization: blocknews - www.blocknews.net
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:39:59 -0400
X-Received-Bytes: 2998
 by: rabidR04CH - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:39 UTC

On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>
>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>
>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>
>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>>>
>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>
>> See above.
>
>
> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.

Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<vtRbK.21409$sdfb.16935@fx41.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62116&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62116

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
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<PaRbK.690637$LN2.570742@fx13.iad>
From: nonegi...@att.net (Bill)
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 by: Bill - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:59 UTC

On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>
>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>
>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>
>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>>>>
>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>
>>> See above.
>>
>>
>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>
> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
> thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
> poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.
>
>
I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago. They made
critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the motherboard.
They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even put in a weaker PSU
than the one I requested.
It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me with the
extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a computer at
least as well if you care at all because you'll take the time to get the
details right.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t7pv6h5t9ltrpud0350bhtia7ll94p2qdl@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62117&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62117

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Message-ID: <t7pv6h5t9ltrpud0350bhtia7ll94p2qdl@4ax.com>
References: <op.1k5bvnr2mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <q95d6h5o1e76o9s4kh88h2irnvmelct63a@4ax.com> <op.1lfikndqmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <7t2q6h9qrb4fmffbadj9vqecge3qt136ft@4ax.com> <S98bK.17955$zkv4.5169@fx39.iad> <op.1lfoxbf4mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <zj9bK.161501$Kdf.94056@fx96.iad> <op.1lhdmzgxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <yLubK.387965$f2a5.144253@fx48.iad> <op.1liu6h10mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <kVPbK.671397$mF2.112197@fx11.iad> <r0jv6hlipucnvoug7rus47et0lpe85t4pk@4ax.com> <PaRbK.690637$LN2.570742@fx13.iad>
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 by: Joel - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:06 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>
>Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
>thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
>poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.

That's fair - I would still self-build, even if I wanted a video card,
but your point is well-taken that you can get a better deal on that
specific part from an OEM.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<diSbK.170456$Kdf.101987@fx96.iad>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62118&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62118

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Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 10:56:09 -0400
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 by: rabidR04CH - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:56 UTC

On 2022-05-02 9:59 a.m., Bill wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>
>>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>
>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>
>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>
>>>> See above.
>>>
>>>
>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>
>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of
>> the thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they
>> do poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if
>> necessary.
>>
>>
> I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago.  They made
> critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the motherboard.
> They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even put in a weaker PSU
> than the one I requested.
> It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
> I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me with the
> extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a computer at
> least as well if you care at all because you'll take the time to get the
> details right.

Lesson learned: don't buy eMachines. :)
--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<trvv6h5l5ant7gr93tvtqtn0lvjq32f764@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62120&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62120

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:07:00 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:07 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:37:44 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>I have to agree that Dell sucks.

I don't agree. No, they're not the best computers you can buy, but
they're not too bad. I don't use one, but my wife does and it's been
fine. I also know many other people who are happy with their Dell
computers.

Dell's top-of-the-line models are sold under the brand name
"Alienware," and as far as I'm concerned, they are among the best
pre-built OEM computers you can buy.

>Of course, just about everything
>manufactured in the United States is garbage.

I disagree with that too. Yes, a lot of it is very poor, but far from
"just about everything."

My computer is custom built from components I selected. Almost all the
components were built in the US, and I think it's very good.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<jh007h9bcdtrjf09ic912ft46l3l1dlu5d@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:18:04 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:18 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:59:53 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

>On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>
>>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>
>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>
>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>
>>>> See above.
>>>
>>>
>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>
>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
>> thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
>> poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.
>>
>>
>I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago. They made
>critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the motherboard.
>They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even put in a weaker PSU
>than the one I requested.
>It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
>I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me with the
>extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a computer at
>least as well if you care at all because you'll take the time to get the
>details right.

You apparently can, and many others can, but not everyone. For
example, I'm 84, and all thumbs these days. Moreover I know a whole
lot more about software than I do about hardware and how to build a
computer. I've built a couple of computers years ago, but those skills
are behind me now.

My current computer is custom-built (last October) from parts I
selected with help from friends and people in the newsgroups. I didn't
build it myself, but I had a friend (younger, and much better with
hardware than I am) build it for me. If I didn't have his help, I
would probably have bought a pre-built computer, probably Alienware.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:30:18 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:30 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 10:06:22 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>
>>Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
>>thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>>result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>>being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>>manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>>better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>>optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
>>poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.
>
>
>That's fair - I would still self-build, even if I wanted a video card,
>but your point is well-taken that you can get a better deal on that
>specific part from an OEM.

One of the problems with an OEM machine is that can you seldom choose
the specific part you want. You have to accept the part (brand and
model) they chose and bought in bulk at a good price. The part they
bought in bulk is almost never a top-of-the-line part. It isn't always
bad, but it's usually far from the best.

If you're willing to spend the extra money, yes, you can usually get a
better machine if it's custom-built, either by you or by someone else
for you. That doesn't mean an OEM machine is terrible; it's not just
as good as a custom-built one.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62123&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62123

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:30 UTC

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:37:44 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>>I have to agree that Dell sucks.
>
>I don't agree. No, they're not the best computers you can buy, but
>they're not too bad. I don't use one, but my wife does and it's been
>fine. I also know many other people who are happy with their Dell
>computers.
>
>Dell's top-of-the-line models are sold under the brand name
>"Alienware," and as far as I'm concerned, they are among the best
>pre-built OEM computers you can buy.

Yeah, those Alienware machines are insane. I would buy one if I
wanted a high end laptop, but I'd still rather self-assemble a
desktop.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:52:08 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:52 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 12:30:22 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:37:44 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>I have to agree that Dell sucks.
>>
>>I don't agree. No, they're not the best computers you can buy, but
>>they're not too bad. I don't use one, but my wife does and it's been
>>fine. I also know many other people who are happy with their Dell
>>computers.
>>
>>Dell's top-of-the-line models are sold under the brand name
>>"Alienware," and as far as I'm concerned, they are among the best
>>pre-built OEM computers you can buy.
>
>
>Yeah, those Alienware machines are insane. I would buy one if I
>wanted a high end laptop, but I'd still rather self-assemble a
>desktop.

Sure. Assuming that you choose the best components, there's no
question that a custom-built computer is better than a pre-built
one--Alienware or any other brand.

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