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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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* Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
 `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
   +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
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      |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?David Brooks
        |   |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris
        |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |      `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
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        |    |   ||  | |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |  |   `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |      +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Zaidy036
        |    |   ||  | |      |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |       |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | ||`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?J. P. Gilliver (John)
        |    |   ||     || | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris

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Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<qge07h1kegjpobe168ko0so38lm7gteu67@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62129&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62129

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Char Jackson - Mon, 2 May 2022 20:20 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 09:07:00 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:37:44 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>>I have to agree that Dell sucks.
>
>I don't agree. No, they're not the best computers you can buy, but
>they're not too bad. I don't use one, but my wife does and it's been
>fine. I also know many other people who are happy with their Dell
>computers.

My primary laptop is a Dell Inspiron, circa 2012/2013, and it has been
fine. It has been better than fine, actually. It has traveled with me
nearly every week for over 7 years, getting bumped around incessantly,
but I've never had a problem with it. For upgrades, I replaced the 2x2GB
RAM modules (4GB RAM) with 2x8GB (16GB RAM). I also replaced the
spinning disk with an SSD, and I replaced the CD/DVD writer with a
second SSD. Other than that, it's stock and it runs fine.

>Dell's top-of-the-line models are sold under the brand name
>"Alienware," and as far as I'm concerned, they are among the best
>pre-built OEM computers you can buy.

My son has an Alienware laptop and he loves it.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t4pj7l$jkb$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62131&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62131

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 17:42:13 -0400
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 by: Paul - Mon, 2 May 2022 21:42 UTC

On 5/2/2022 12:30 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 10:06:22 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>
>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
>>> thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>>> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>>> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
>>> poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.
>>
>>
>> That's fair - I would still self-build, even if I wanted a video card,
>> but your point is well-taken that you can get a better deal on that
>> specific part from an OEM.
>
>
> One of the problems with an OEM machine is that can you seldom choose
> the specific part you want. You have to accept the part (brand and
> model) they chose and bought in bulk at a good price. The part they
> bought in bulk is almost never a top-of-the-line part. It isn't always
> bad, but it's usually far from the best.
>
> If you're willing to spend the extra money, yes, you can usually get a
> better machine if it's custom-built, either by you or by someone else
> for you. That doesn't mean an OEM machine is terrible; it's not just
> as good as a custom-built one.
>

Except in the Bad Cap era, the Dell hardware was adequate.

It's some of their BIOS designs, that will have you cursing
and swearing on a continuous basis. Updating the BIOS won't
help, because the squirrel behavior is "Design Intent".
Retail motherboards, are so much better.

Paul

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:05 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:14:27 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>
>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>> warranty--though I never had to use it. All of the other parts have a
>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an incentive
>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>
>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>> would honour a 10 year warranty. The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>> by then.
>
> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
> elsewhere, friend.

Wow, such stupidity. Let's make this simpler shall we?

Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers. We think it's better to build our own.

Now you know which side of the argument you're on, lets see if you can argue against the right people?

I was agreeing with you - it's best to build your own and buy the 10 year warranty PSU rather than the shop built one which is either a Chinese PSU with Chinese amps, or a Corsair where you'll lose access to the warranty when the shop goes under.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lkq0la5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:06 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:18:14 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>
>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>
>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it. All of the other parts have a
>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an incentive
>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>
>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>> would honour a 10 year warranty. The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>>> by then.
>>
>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>> elsewhere, friend.
>
> Welcome to the joys of debating the Commander.

I feel like I'm arguing with 10 year olds. Neither of you can follow a simple train of thought.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:26 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers. We think it's better to build our own.

No, I did build my own, more than once, idiot.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lksdud5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:35 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 05:26:17 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers. We think it's better to build our own.
>
> No, I did build my own, more than once, idiot.

Well we'll never know since you snipped it, but I believe Bill is at fault for poking his nose in and confusing matters. Perhaps all involved could state their point more precisely to avoid your little brains getting mixed up.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lkshcqrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:37 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 10:50:44 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 09:34:04 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11 are
>>>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your machine
>>>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and then buy
>>>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>>>
>>>> Who buys a machine in one piece?! I did once, my first computer. I ordered it with no OS. I didn't want the thing full of adware. Also it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD. It's called recycling.
>>>
>>> Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>>> "just work" when they turn it on the first time. This is one reason
>>> Microsoft sells Windows Home so inexpensively on such computers, not
>>> only does the OEM handle supporting it,
>>
>> And if you install it yourself Microsoft supports it? I don't think so. OEM Windows doesn't cost MS any less.
>
> Support in this context refers to tech support, not just updates. OEMs
> are required to handle such tech support for their customers. If you
> buy Windows as a standalone product, you either get support from
> Microsoft, if it's retail (like what I bought), or you have to take
> your chances without tech support, if you buy the System Builder OEM
> copies. The latter option would be fine with me, I bought Windows 7
> that way, but I didn't care about saving the money on it when I bought
> Windows 10 last year, I wanted to get my product key instantly from
> Microsoft.

There's fuck all support from MS either way, actually there's lots, but it's all the wrong answers, just cut and paste stock answers. And they don't ask your serial number when you ask a question. So you get the same support from MS with an OEM product.

>>> but it helps sell their
>>> product in general - less techie customers get a complete package of
>>> hardware and software. If everyone had to install Windows themselves,
>>> it'd put a damper on the market for it (and thus Office and other
>>> Microsoft software, for that matter).
>>
>> But it's cheaper to install it yourself.
>
> If you're pirating it, sure.

Precisely what I was referring to.

The day MS make an OS without any bugs is the day I'll pay for it.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<ad3cK.960130$aT3.658117@fx09.iad>

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 by: Bill - Tue, 3 May 2022 05:38 UTC

On 5/2/2022 10:56 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-05-02 9:59 a.m., Bill wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>>
>>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order
>>>>> parts,
>>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant
>>>>>>> prices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>>
>>>>> See above.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>
>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of
>>> the thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as
>>> a result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the
>>> time being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they
>>> do poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>>
>> I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago.  They made
>> critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the
>> motherboard. They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even put
>> in a weaker PSU than the one I requested.
>> It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
>> I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me with
>> the extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a computer
>> at least as well if you care at all because you'll take the time to
>> get the details right.
>
> Lesson learned: don't buy eMachines. :)

At the time, I was a "newbie" and afraid of getting it wrong.. ha!

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<dV9cK.19908$aLT.5140@fx05.iad>

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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:14 UTC

On 2022-05-03 12:05 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:14:27 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>
>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>
>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it.  All of the other parts have a
>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an
>>>> incentive
>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>
>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>> would honour a 10 year warranty.  The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>>> by then.
>>
>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>> elsewhere, friend.
>
> Wow, such stupidity.  Let's make this simpler shall we?

Let's not. In fact, feel discouraged to respond to me. Your posts have
are of no worth and since you are an admitted pirate, I have no reason
to respect you as an individual either.

> Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers.  We think it's
> better to build our own.
>
> Now you know which side of the argument you're on, lets see if you can
> argue against the right people?
>
> I was agreeing with you - it's best to build your own and buy the 10
> year warranty PSU rather than the shop built one which is either a
> Chinese PSU with Chinese amps, or a Corsair where you'll lose access to
> the warranty when the shop goes under.

A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
fix it myself if absolutely necessary.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<oW9cK.19909$aLT.4264@fx05.iad>

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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:16 UTC

On 2022-05-03 12:06 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:18:14 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same:
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it.  All of the other parts have a
>>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an
>>>>> incentive
>>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old
>>>>> (admittedly I
>>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>>
>>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>>> would honour a 10 year warranty.  The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>>>> by then.
>>>
>>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>>> elsewhere, friend.
>>
>> Welcome to the joys of debating the Commander.
>
> I feel like I'm arguing with 10 year olds.  Neither of you can follow a
> simple train of thought.

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that you deliberately
changed the vocabulary used in an attempt to move goal posts or that you
are simply unclear in the way that you express yourself. He and I are
quite accustomed to dealing with trolls so we know how to detect
dishonesty from posters. The fault is entirely on your side, not ours.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<_X9cK.962522$aT3.876088@fx09.iad>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62150&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62150

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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:17 UTC

On 2022-05-03 12:37 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2022 10:50:44 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 09:34:04 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11 are
>>>>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your
>>>>>> machine
>>>>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and
>>>>>> then buy
>>>>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who buys a machine in one piece?!  I did once, my first computer.
>>>>> I ordered it with no OS.  I didn't want the thing full of adware.
>>>>> Also it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD.  It's called recycling.
>>>>
>>>> Many people buy prefab desktop machines, or laptops, and want it to
>>>> "just work" when they turn it on the first time.  This is one reason
>>>> Microsoft sells Windows Home so inexpensively on such computers, not
>>>> only does the OEM handle supporting it,
>>>
>>> And if you install it yourself Microsoft supports it?  I don't think
>>> so.  OEM Windows doesn't cost MS any less.
>>
>> Support in this context refers to tech support, not just updates. OEMs
>> are required to handle such tech support for their customers.  If you
>> buy Windows as a standalone product, you either get support from
>> Microsoft, if it's retail (like what I bought), or you have to take
>> your chances without tech support, if you buy the System Builder OEM
>> copies.  The latter option would be fine with me, I bought Windows 7
>> that way, but I didn't care about saving the money on it when I bought
>> Windows 10 last year, I wanted to get my product key instantly from
>> Microsoft.
>
> There's fuck all support from MS either way, actually there's lots, but
> it's all the wrong answers, just cut and paste stock answers.  And they
> don't ask your serial number when you ask a question.  So you get the
> same support from MS with an OEM product.
>
>>>> but it helps sell their
>>>> product in general - less techie customers get a complete package of
>>>> hardware and software.  If everyone had to install Windows themselves,
>>>> it'd put a damper on the market for it (and thus Office and other
>>>> Microsoft software, for that matter).
>>>
>>> But it's cheaper to install it yourself.
>>
>> If you're pirating it, sure.
>
> Precisely what I was referring to.
>
> The day MS make an OS without any bugs is the day I'll pay for it.

Out of curiosity, how effective would you be at squashing bugs in a
product that is expected to work and be stable on an unlimited amount of
computer configurations like Windows is?

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<EY9cK.962523$aT3.235590@fx09.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62151&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62151

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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:18 UTC

On 2022-05-03 1:38 a.m., Bill wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 10:56 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-02 9:59 a.m., Bill wrote:
>>> On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for the
>>>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order
>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant
>>>>>>>> prices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of
>>>> the thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as
>>>> a result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the
>>>> time being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>>>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>>>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>>>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find
>>>> they do poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if
>>>> necessary.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago.  They made
>>> critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the
>>> motherboard. They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even put
>>> in a weaker PSU than the one I requested.
>>> It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
>>> I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me with
>>> the extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a
>>> computer at least as well if you care at all because you'll take the
>>> time to get the details right.
>>
>> Lesson learned: don't buy eMachines. :)
>
> At the time, I was a "newbie" and afraid of getting it wrong.. ha!

Are you not surprised that I knew it was an eMachine from the
description? :)

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<1NacK.683920$mF2.256152@fx11.iad>

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 by: Bill - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:14 UTC

On 5/3/2022 9:14 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-05-03 12:05 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:14:27 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same:
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it.  All of the other parts have a
>>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an
>>>>> incentive
>>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old
>>>>> (admittedly I
>>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>>
>>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>>> would honour a 10 year warranty.  The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>>>> by then.
>>>
>>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>>> elsewhere, friend.
>>
>> Wow, such stupidity.  Let's make this simpler shall we?
>
> Let's not. In fact, feel discouraged to respond to me. Your posts have
> are of no worth and since you are an admitted pirate, I have no reason
> to respect you as an individual either.
>
>> Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers.  We think it's
>> better to build our own.
>>
>> Now you know which side of the argument you're on, lets see if you can
>> argue against the right people?
>>
>> I was agreeing with you - it's best to build your own and buy the 10
>> year warranty PSU rather than the shop built one which is either a
>> Chinese PSU with Chinese amps, or a Corsair where you'll lose access
>> to the warranty when the shop goes under.
>
> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>

FWIW, I buy the Corsair PSUs with the 10 year warranty, NOT because of
the warranty, but of their confidence in their product. Like you, I
don't want to have to "jump through hoops", and that's why I buy quality
parts from the onset--I jump through hoops to reduce my probability of
disappointment from the build, and onward. From what I've seen of
computer shops so far, they don't know more than me. A "computer shop"
did not find the extra spacer under the motherboard that I mentioned
earlier, and they charged me $40 or $50 anyway. But I eventually fixed
it (I felt like I should have gone back and asked for my money back).
It's a tough business, and they went out of business after a couple years.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<4OacK.683994$mF2.318336@fx11.iad>

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From: nonegi...@att.net (Bill)
In-Reply-To: <EY9cK.962523$aT3.235590@fx09.iad>
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 by: Bill - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:15 UTC

On 5/3/2022 9:18 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-05-03 1:38 a.m., Bill wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 10:56 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-02 9:59 a.m., Bill wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made
>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order
>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant
>>>>>>>>> prices.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines,
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you
>>>>>> want a
>>>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning
>>>>> of the thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily
>>>>> expensive as a result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting
>>>>> better, for the time being, but I would still opt to get a machine
>>>>> directly from a manufacturer to save money on that part, to take
>>>>> advantage of much better cable management than I could manage on my
>>>>> own and for the optimizations these people inevitably make. The one
>>>>> thing I find they do poorly is apply thermal compound and I can
>>>>> easily redo it if necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago.  They made
>>>> critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the
>>>> motherboard. They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even put
>>>> in a weaker PSU than the one I requested.
>>>> It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
>>>> I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me with
>>>> the extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a
>>>> computer at least as well if you care at all because you'll take the
>>>> time to get the details right.
>>>
>>> Lesson learned: don't buy eMachines. :)
>>
>> At the time, I was a "newbie" and afraid of getting it wrong.. ha!
>
> Are you not surprised that I knew it was an eMachine from the
> description? :)
>

Is eMachine a brand? If so, it wasn't the company I bought from, but it
was probably similar.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<iie27hdf6ff8lu785lsdl14qsnhovm7h50@4ax.com>

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:22 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>>> And if you install it yourself Microsoft supports it? I don't think so. OEM Windows doesn't cost MS any less.
>>
>> Support in this context refers to tech support, not just updates. OEMs
>> are required to handle such tech support for their customers. If you
>> buy Windows as a standalone product, you either get support from
>> Microsoft, if it's retail (like what I bought), or you have to take
>> your chances without tech support, if you buy the System Builder OEM
>> copies. The latter option would be fine with me, I bought Windows 7
>> that way, but I didn't care about saving the money on it when I bought
>> Windows 10 last year, I wanted to get my product key instantly from
>> Microsoft.
>
>There's fuck all support from MS either way, actually there's lots, but it's all the wrong answers, just cut and paste stock answers. And they don't ask your serial number when you ask a question. So you get the same support from MS with an OEM product.

Actually, they do ask for the product ID (which is derived from the
key) - the OEM copies don't qualify for Microsoft tech support. Not
that I disagree that it's worthless, however, I didn't buy my retail
key with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
to buy, I had the money.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<ose27hh0cbqscfb04egc4v77c4819n4eug@4ax.com>

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:27 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>fix it myself if absolutely necessary.

That's very reasonable, and most would feel the same. I actually
prefer to have a warranty on the individual parts, because I prefer to
handle hardware changes myself, but I'm not the average user.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: rlam...@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 09:45:07 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:45 UTC

On 2022-05-03 9:27 a.m., Joel wrote:
> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>
>
> That's very reasonable, and most would feel the same. I actually
> prefer to have a warranty on the individual parts, because I prefer to
> handle hardware changes myself, but I'm not the average user.
>

I built 2 computers in 2010, one with an 850 watt Cooler master and one
with an
850 watt Corsair PSU.
When I rebuilt them a year and a half ago I reused both power supplies
and they are still going strong now.
It pays to buy premium parts even if they are more expensive, over the
long haul they may turn out to be cheaper.

Rene

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: nonegi...@att.net (Bill)
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 by: Bill - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:51 UTC

On 5/3/2022 9:14 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:

> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>

I told a family member that standing in line at the Apple store would
make me gag! : )

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<vug27hlfcol1iqe2l5vpv4tkvq1p1avmkr@4ax.com>

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:02 UTC

Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:
>On 2022-05-03 9:27 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>>> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>>> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>>> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>
>> That's very reasonable, and most would feel the same. I actually
>> prefer to have a warranty on the individual parts, because I prefer to
>> handle hardware changes myself, but I'm not the average user.
>
>I built 2 computers in 2010, one with an 850 watt Cooler master and one
>with an
> 850 watt Corsair PSU.
>When I rebuilt them a year and a half ago I reused both power supplies
>and they are still going strong now.
>It pays to buy premium parts even if they are more expensive, over the
>long haul they may turn out to be cheaper.

Exactly.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<mvg27hpc97nh2ko29fuhisn8bs1613eehr@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 08:04:45 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:04 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 09:45:07 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>On 2022-05-03 9:27 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>>> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>>> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>>> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>
>>
>> That's very reasonable, and most would feel the same. I actually
>> prefer to have a warranty on the individual parts, because I prefer to
>> handle hardware changes myself, but I'm not the average user.
>>
>
>I built 2 computers in 2010, one with an 850 watt Cooler master and one
>with an
> 850 watt Corsair PSU.
>When I rebuilt them a year and a half ago I reused both power supplies
>and they are still going strong now.
>It pays to buy premium parts even if they are more expensive, over the
>long haul they may turn out to be cheaper.

I generally agree with that last sentence, especially with the word
"may" in it. It's not always the case.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<5DbcK.253$bTp1.54@fx44.iad>

 copy mid

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Organization: blocknews - www.blocknews.net
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 11:12:00 -0400
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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:12 UTC

On 2022-05-03 10:14 a.m., Bill wrote:
> On 5/3/2022 9:14 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-03 12:05 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:14:27 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine,
>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same:
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year
>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it.  All of the other parts
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an
>>>>>> incentive
>>>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old
>>>>>> (admittedly I
>>>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>>>
>>>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>>>> would honour a 10 year warranty.  The shop probably wouldn't even
>>>>> exist
>>>>> by then.
>>>>
>>>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>>>> elsewhere, friend.
>>>
>>> Wow, such stupidity.  Let's make this simpler shall we?
>>
>> Let's not. In fact, feel discouraged to respond to me. Your posts have
>> are of no worth and since you are an admitted pirate, I have no reason
>> to respect you as an individual either.
>>
>>> Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers.  We think it's
>>> better to build our own.
>>>
>>> Now you know which side of the argument you're on, lets see if you
>>> can argue against the right people?
>>>
>>> I was agreeing with you - it's best to build your own and buy the 10
>>> year warranty PSU rather than the shop built one which is either a
>>> Chinese PSU with Chinese amps, or a Corsair where you'll lose access
>>> to the warranty when the shop goes under.
>>
>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the
>> place of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is
>> within the first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I
>> only want to fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>
>
> FWIW, I buy the Corsair PSUs with the 10 year warranty, NOT because of
> the warranty, but of their confidence in their product.  Like you, I
> don't want to have to "jump through hoops", and that's why I buy quality
> parts from the onset--I jump through hoops to reduce my probability of
> disappointment from the build, and onward. From what I've seen of
> computer shops so far, they don't know more than me. A "computer shop"
> did not find the extra spacer under the motherboard that I mentioned
> earlier, and they charged me $40 or $50 anyway. But I eventually fixed
> it (I felt like I should have gone back and asked for my money back).
> It's a tough business, and they went out of business after a couple years.

I too have to admit that I've never been disappointed in a Corsair
product. I believe that every power supply I've purchased since 2010 was
from that company and not only did they deliver the power I needed, I
believe that the power supply is doing its job even today for the person
who has since inherited the machine.

The reasoning is sound, either way: if a manufacturer is ready to
provide a lifetime or 10-year warranty, they definitely deserve your
business.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<9EbcK.254$bTp1.89@fx44.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62161&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62161

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Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 11:13:08 -0400
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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:13 UTC

On 2022-05-03 10:15 a.m., Bill wrote:
> On 5/3/2022 9:18 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-03 1:38 a.m., Bill wrote:
>>> On 5/2/2022 10:56 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-02 9:59 a.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>> On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made
>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Impossible.  Your own one you pay for parts.  Theirs you pay
>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order
>>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant
>>>>>>>>>> prices.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines,
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you
>>>>>>> want a
>>>>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning
>>>>>> of the thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily
>>>>>> expensive as a result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting
>>>>>> better, for the time being, but I would still opt to get a machine
>>>>>> directly from a manufacturer to save money on that part, to take
>>>>>> advantage of much better cable management than I could manage on
>>>>>> my own and for the optimizations these people inevitably make. The
>>>>>> one thing I find they do poorly is apply thermal compound and I
>>>>>> can easily redo it if necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago.  They
>>>>> made critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the
>>>>> motherboard. They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even
>>>>> put in a weaker PSU than the one I requested.
>>>>> It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
>>>>> I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me
>>>>> with the extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a
>>>>> computer at least as well if you care at all because you'll take
>>>>> the time to get the details right.
>>>>
>>>> Lesson learned: don't buy eMachines. :)
>>>
>>> At the time, I was a "newbie" and afraid of getting it wrong.. ha!
>>
>> Are you not surprised that I knew it was an eMachine from the
>> description? :)
>>
>
> Is eMachine a brand?  If so, it wasn't the company I bought from, but it
> was probably similar.

It was. I don't know if they still exist but I would hope not. The
manufacturer's name pretty much tells you what you can expect from them:
an economical machine which cuts corners and probably hires the least
expensive builder and technician they can. I've never owned one myself
but I wouldn't expect their machines to be any good for even the most
basic of tasks.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<8FbcK.257$bTp1.20@fx44.iad>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62162&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62162

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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:14 UTC

On 2022-05-03 10:22 a.m., Joel wrote:
> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>> And if you install it yourself Microsoft supports it? I don't think so. OEM Windows doesn't cost MS any less.
>>>
>>> Support in this context refers to tech support, not just updates. OEMs
>>> are required to handle such tech support for their customers. If you
>>> buy Windows as a standalone product, you either get support from
>>> Microsoft, if it's retail (like what I bought), or you have to take
>>> your chances without tech support, if you buy the System Builder OEM
>>> copies. The latter option would be fine with me, I bought Windows 7
>>> that way, but I didn't care about saving the money on it when I bought
>>> Windows 10 last year, I wanted to get my product key instantly from
>>> Microsoft.
>>
>> There's fuck all support from MS either way, actually there's lots, but it's all the wrong answers, just cut and paste stock answers. And they don't ask your serial number when you ask a question. So you get the same support from MS with an OEM product.
>
>
> Actually, they do ask for the product ID (which is derived from the
> key) - the OEM copies don't qualify for Microsoft tech support. Not
> that I disagree that it's worthless, however, I didn't buy my retail
> key with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
> to buy, I had the money.

You seem to live by the same moral code that I do. I too don't need to
buy a lot of the things I do (including movies and TV shows) but do so
simply because I feel that they deserve to be compensated for it.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<uFbcK.258$bTp1.200@fx44.iad>

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 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:14 UTC

On 2022-05-03 10:45 a.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2022-05-03 9:27 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>>> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>>> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>>> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>
>>
>> That's very reasonable, and most would feel the same.  I actually
>> prefer to have a warranty on the individual parts, because I prefer to
>> handle hardware changes myself, but I'm not the average user.
>>
>
> I built 2 computers in 2010, one  with an 850 watt Cooler master and one
> with an
>  850 watt Corsair PSU.
> When I rebuilt them  a year and a half ago I reused both power supplies
> and they are still going strong now.
> It pays to buy premium parts even if they are more expensive, over the
> long haul they may turn out to be cheaper.

+1

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<qkh27hd58edebbloic7ujn9a9d7iblfggj@4ax.com>

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 by: Joel - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:14 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>I too have to admit that I've never been disappointed in a Corsair
>product. I believe that every power supply I've purchased since 2010 was
>from that company and not only did they deliver the power I needed, I
>believe that the power supply is doing its job even today for the person
>who has since inherited the machine.
>
>The reasoning is sound, either way: if a manufacturer is ready to
>provide a lifetime or 10-year warranty, they definitely deserve your
>business.

Absolutely right. Anyone who's assembled a computer knows that
replacing a power supply is the most annoying task. I overbought my
Corsair power supply, because I am 99% sure it will outlive my use of
the machine, as the high end power supply in my old computer did.

--
Joel Crump

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