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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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* Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
 `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
   +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?%
      |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?%
      |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?David Brooks
        |   |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris
        |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |      `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |  |   `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |      +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Zaidy036
        |    |   ||  | |      |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |       |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | ||`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?J. P. Gilliver (John)
        |    |   ||     || | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris

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Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62368&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62368

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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References: <5ols6hprptemq75rhmfhdcb8h5lqb9db3m@4ax.com> <op.1lkshcqrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <_X9cK.962522$aT3.876088@fx09.iad> <op.1ltnhpx7mvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <102e7htsnleu2dvrl51d9bk3c7dpr4d19f@4ax.com> <t3rf7h5vqh2biodi1hghjlbvogp3j5gn3k@4ax.com> <921g7hl0cisvdj0onllgbkrha0qm7vffc3@4ax.com> <kpai7h96mka9if95g7t1282698n0uc1ctj@4ax.com> <d1ci7h10uuh4pgdogb5i70553fdfqnlnaa@4ax.com> <op.1lwt84lhmvhs6z@ryzen.lan> <gnii7h5bsni024cl62sqc4sdtgjn29rlkt@4ax.com> <op.1lw53wr5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>
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 by: Joel - Tue, 10 May 2022 02:05 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 09 May 2022 18:11:07 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 May 2022 16:16:39 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thinking abut this some more, how big is what you call a "large text
>>>>> file"? Can you put a number on it, even if approximate? I use Notepad
>>>>> to edit my autohotkey file, which is 151KB. It works without a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Multi-megabyte.
>>>
>>> It's never been designed for that. But how hard would it be for it to just say "no, too big", instead of trying and hanging?
>>
>> It had always worked, before. Notepad was a useful, and included,
>> app. Not anymore.
>
>Notepad has never handled large files.

It did the ones in question.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<j6ij7hd8dd95af6l8d6ie1gn6j5skqvbjq@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62370&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62370

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Tue, 10 May 2022 02:10 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>>> Of course it's [pirating Windows] victimless. Re-read what I wrote and use a calculator if necessary. "If I changed to Linux, they'd still get no money form me."
>>
>> Then put your (lack of) money where your mouth is - switch to Linux.
>> But you won't do that, will you? You're just a shameless warezer.
>
>I've already explained to you that switching to Linux wouldn't profit MS, so why should I do it?

Because that would be the right thing to do, if you don't want to pay
for software.

>>>> Nope, very few people, statistically speaking, do what I did [pay the retail price for Windows].
>>>
>>> Because very few people are as stupid as you.
>>
>> And again, insulting people who do the honorable thing. Utter stupidity.
>
>Honourable. And yes it's stupid to do something that costs you money.

Nope, it's being honest.

>>>> Most people who assemble their own computers are buying resold product keys
>>>> from a third party, but I wouldn't be comfortable with that, even
>>>> though it's so cheap.
>>>
>>> Apparently that's a bit naughty - the place I bought 100 of those from (for building machines for others) was told by Microsoft to "please stop doing that".
>>
>> Good point, apparently I was right not to go that route.
>
>Since the shop was not charged, it was just MS throwing it's weight around.

Sure, but I'd still rather avoid such a scene.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t5cufe$jst$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Paul - Tue, 10 May 2022 05:50 UTC

On 5/9/2022 5:03 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 09 May 2022 18:11:07 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 May 2022 16:16:39 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thinking abut this some more, how big is what you call a  "large text
>>>>> file"? Can you put a number on it, even if approximate? I use Notepad
>>>>> to edit my autohotkey file, which is 151KB. It works without a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Multi-megabyte.
>>>
>>> It's never been designed for that.  But how hard would it be for it to just say "no, too big", instead of trying and hanging?
>>
>>
>> It had always worked, before.  Notepad was a useful, and included,
>> app.  Not anymore.
>
> Notepad has never handled large files.   Neither does the one that comes with Ubuntu.  Which being Linux, it stupidly tries to use to open executable files if you haven't "given them permission" to be an executable file.

It's easy to work out a rough theoretical limit.

It uses a 32-bit data structure, even when the executable is
nominally 64-bit (PE32+). This means the memory will be limited
to around 1800 MB.

The characters are stored as double-byte. This cuts the max
characters down to around 900 MB worth. You might have to go
back a long way, to find it storing ASCII, but in such a time,
other arch limits prevented such large files from working.

So far, I see no sign of pure 64-bitness on that puppy.

The 1800 is a rough approximation. The limit might be 2 GB,
but some of that space is used by code or something, so the
space is pared down a bit. My "representative number" (like
if discussing Photoshop behavior), is to call that limit
1800 MB, plus or minus.

And Notepad will tell you, if the file turns out to be too big.

With the ability to make arbitrary sized text file, using
two commands in Command Prompt, it shouldn't take long to
characterize to your satisfaction.

*******

Text Widgets started a long time ago, with TeachText
as an example. It had a 32KB limitation. It was intended
to be "demo code" of some sort. But doing this sort of
thing ("demo-ing") is a mistake, because it holds back
the technology for decades. This is why it took so long
for decent RAMDisks to show up on Windows. The demo code
destroyed any motivation to work on it, for developers.

So when you write code for chuckles, instead of writing
code for people to get work done, this has all sorts
of unintended consequences. It's pretty obvious the people
at Microsoft, neither know nor care about the disposition
of Notepad. This is why the Win10 improved version was
such a shock. Like having ice cold water thrown on you.
Never in a million years, did I expect them to put an ounce
of effort into it. But they did. Then W11 went back
to the status quo, of "don't care and don't wanna know".

Paul

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1ly9uegumvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 00:19 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:22:50 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>> And if you install it yourself Microsoft supports it? I don't think so. OEM Windows doesn't cost MS any less.
>>>
>>> Support in this context refers to tech support, not just updates. OEMs
>>> are required to handle such tech support for their customers. If you
>>> buy Windows as a standalone product, you either get support from
>>> Microsoft, if it's retail (like what I bought), or you have to take
>>> your chances without tech support, if you buy the System Builder OEM
>>> copies. The latter option would be fine with me, I bought Windows 7
>>> that way, but I didn't care about saving the money on it when I bought
>>> Windows 10 last year, I wanted to get my product key instantly from
>>> Microsoft.
>>
>> There's fuck all support from MS either way, actually there's lots, but it's all the wrong answers, just cut and paste stock answers. And they don't ask your serial number when you ask a question. So you get the same support from MS with an OEM product.
>
>
> Actually, they do ask for the product ID (which is derived from the
> key)

They've never asked me.

> - the OEM copies don't qualify for Microsoft tech support. Not
> that I disagree that it's worthless,

[recalculating.....]

"I agree it's worthless"

> however, I didn't buy my retail
> key with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
> to buy, I had the money.

How is it easier? You click on the one you want.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1ly9vmozmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 00:20 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 16:14:12 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-03 10:22 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> And if you install it yourself Microsoft supports it? I don't think so. OEM Windows doesn't cost MS any less.
>>>>
>>>> Support in this context refers to tech support, not just updates. OEMs
>>>> are required to handle such tech support for their customers. If you
>>>> buy Windows as a standalone product, you either get support from
>>>> Microsoft, if it's retail (like what I bought), or you have to take
>>>> your chances without tech support, if you buy the System Builder OEM
>>>> copies. The latter option would be fine with me, I bought Windows 7
>>>> that way, but I didn't care about saving the money on it when I bought
>>>> Windows 10 last year, I wanted to get my product key instantly from
>>>> Microsoft.
>>>
>>> There's fuck all support from MS either way, actually there's lots, but it's all the wrong answers, just cut and paste stock answers. And they don't ask your serial number when you ask a question. So you get the same support from MS with an OEM product.
>>
>>
>> Actually, they do ask for the product ID (which is derived from the
>> key) - the OEM copies don't qualify for Microsoft tech support. Not
>> that I disagree that it's worthless, however, I didn't buy my retail
>> key with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>> to buy, I had the money.
>
> You seem to live by the same moral code that I do. I too don't need to
> buy a lot of the things I do (including movies and TV shows) but do so
> simply because I feel that they deserve to be compensated for it.

Take the money you "donate" to MS and instead donate it to a real charity, save lives. So you're not actually moral at all.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1ly9w81dmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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<5ols6hprptemq75rhmfhdcb8h5lqb9db3m@4ax.com> <op.1lkshcqrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 00:20 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 16:39:22 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>>> Actually, they do ask for the product ID (which is derived from the
>>> key) - the OEM copies don't qualify for Microsoft tech support. Not
>>> that I disagree that it's worthless, however, I didn't buy my retail
>>> key with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>
>> You seem to live by the same moral code that I do. I too don't need to
>> buy a lot of the things I do (including movies and TV shows) but do so
>> simply because I feel that they deserve to be compensated for it.
>
>
> I have a large collection of pirated music, but I stopped adding to it
> after the first time I did so since the Win11 upgrade, when it did
> something to let me know it saw what I had done.

Absolute fucking shite. The OS does not tell you you're a naughty boy.

> I don't use offshore
> streaming sites for movies/TV, I rent stuff from Amazon Prime Video if
> I want. I'm willing to pay for the content I want, going forward.

I watch Amazon Prime Video on Piratebay so there.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Wed, 11 May 2022 00:22 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 03 May 2022 16:39:22 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>> Actually, they do ask for the product ID (which is derived from the
>>>> key) - the OEM copies don't qualify for Microsoft tech support. Not
>>>> that I disagree that it's worthless, however, I didn't buy my retail
>>>> key with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>>
>>> You seem to live by the same moral code that I do. I too don't need to
>>> buy a lot of the things I do (including movies and TV shows) but do so
>>> simply because I feel that they deserve to be compensated for it.
>>
>> I have a large collection of pirated music, but I stopped adding to it
>> after the first time I did so since the Win11 upgrade, when it did
>> something to let me know it saw what I had done.
>
>Absolute fucking shite. The OS does not tell you you're a naughty boy.

Yeah, you would fucking know, dumbfuck.

>> I don't use offshore
>> streaming sites for movies/TV, I rent stuff from Amazon Prime Video if
>> I want. I'm willing to pay for the content I want, going forward.
>
>I watch Amazon Prime Video on Piratebay so there.

Good for you, then.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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 by: Joel - Wed, 11 May 2022 00:25 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>> however, I didn't buy my retail
>> key [instead of an OEM copy] with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>> to buy, I had the money.
>
>How is it easier? You click on the one you want.

I got my key *instantly*, entirely online, not having a worthless
DVD-ROM shipped to me. I couldn't care less, about the money I
would've saved, by getting the cheaper OEM copy.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lzbqoxomvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 01:00 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:13:04 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-01 4:24 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:45:35 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-04-30 6:33 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:26:57 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/30/2022 6:22 AM, Joel wrote:
>>>>>>> If no one bought Windows, you'd be stuck with Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or just the last version of Windows. Win-10 suits me fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The upgrade to 11 is free you idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL. Indeed it is. The only ones who pay for either Windows 10 or 11
>>>>> are
>>>>> builders. Otherwise, the operating system just comes with your machine
>>>>> the way it does on a Mac. The days of having to buy the OS and then buy
>>>>> the upgrade are long gone.
>>>>
>>>> Who buys a machine in one piece?! I did once, my first computer. I
>>>> ordered it with no OS. I didn't want the thing full of adware. Also
>>>> it's cheaper to borrow someone else's CD. It's called recycling.
>>>
>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>> they do actually cost less,
>>
>> Impossible. Your own one you pay for parts. Theirs you pay for the
>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>
> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.

But still pay more when they go up in price. And no, I can get bulk prices only buying a few.

>>> Manufacturers are also a lot better than most end-users when it comes
>>> to cable management.
>>
>> That's the biggest load of shite I've ever heard. I used to (as a
>> hobby) build high end gaming machines (to ther user's spec if they
>> wanted, after I gave them sensible options) and sell them on Ebay. Mine
>> were 5 times neater inside than anything you could buy in a shop, and I
>> sold them £100 cheaper, while making £100 for myself. So £200 cheaper.
>>
>> I also repaired machines, I was brought those so-called professionally
>> built ones from shops, with cables caught in fan blades! I was the only
>> person I've ever seen who fitted a guard over the CPU fan. I was
>> brought one where it kept going exceedingly slowly. The CPU heatsink
>> had actually fallen off and it was severely thermally throttling.
>
> I don't believe you at all.

Which part?

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 01:00 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 14:39:59 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made since
>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>
>>>> Impossible. Your own one you pay for parts. Theirs you pay for the
>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>
>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order parts,
>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>
>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant prices.
>>>>
>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>
>>> See above.
>>
>>
>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>
> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
> thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
> poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.

Bitcoin has been going on for ages, you can't blame that for a shortage.

And be more precise will you? Bitcoin is on ASICs. You must mean an altcoin or other.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lzbtkgumvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62439&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62439

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 01:01 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 22:42:13 +0100, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 5/2/2022 12:30 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 10:06:22 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
>>>> thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>>>> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>>>> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>>>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>>>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>>>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
>>>> poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's fair - I would still self-build, even if I wanted a video card,
>>> but your point is well-taken that you can get a better deal on that
>>> specific part from an OEM.
>>
>>
>> One of the problems with an OEM machine is that can you seldom choose
>> the specific part you want. You have to accept the part (brand and
>> model) they chose and bought in bulk at a good price. The part they
>> bought in bulk is almost never a top-of-the-line part. It isn't always
>> bad, but it's usually far from the best.
>>
>> If you're willing to spend the extra money, yes, you can usually get a
>> better machine if it's custom-built, either by you or by someone else
>> for you. That doesn't mean an OEM machine is terrible; it's not just
>> as good as a custom-built one.
>>
>
> Except in the Bad Cap era, the Dell hardware was adequate.
>
> It's some of their BIOS designs, that will have you cursing
> and swearing on a continuous basis. Updating the BIOS won't
> help, because the squirrel behavior is "Design Intent".
> Retail motherboards, are so much better.

That is enough to avoid them.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lzbu3mkmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62440&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62440

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 01:02 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 22:42:13 +0100, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 5/2/2022 12:30 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 10:06:22 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines, using
>>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you want a
>>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning of the
>>>> thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily expensive as a
>>>> result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting better, for the time
>>>> being, but I would still opt to get a machine directly from a
>>>> manufacturer to save money on that part, to take advantage of much
>>>> better cable management than I could manage on my own and for the
>>>> optimizations these people inevitably make. The one thing I find they do
>>>> poorly is apply thermal compound and I can easily redo it if necessary.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's fair - I would still self-build, even if I wanted a video card,
>>> but your point is well-taken that you can get a better deal on that
>>> specific part from an OEM.
>>
>>
>> One of the problems with an OEM machine is that can you seldom choose
>> the specific part you want. You have to accept the part (brand and
>> model) they chose and bought in bulk at a good price. The part they
>> bought in bulk is almost never a top-of-the-line part. It isn't always
>> bad, but it's usually far from the best.
>>
>> If you're willing to spend the extra money, yes, you can usually get a
>> better machine if it's custom-built, either by you or by someone else
>> for you. That doesn't mean an OEM machine is terrible; it's not just
>> as good as a custom-built one.
>>
>
> Except in the Bad Cap era, the Dell hardware was adequate.
>
> It's some of their BIOS designs, that will have you cursing
> and swearing on a continuous basis. Updating the BIOS won't
> help, because the squirrel behavior is "Design Intent".
> Retail motherboards, are so much better.

Why do Dell presumably spend a lot of money reinventing the wheel and making it worse? The best thing for them to do would be to select the best of each part, just normal nice everyday compatible parts, and assemble them.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lzdda2emvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62441&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62441

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 01:35 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 16:13:08 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-03 10:15 a.m., Bill wrote:
>> On 5/3/2022 9:18 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-03 1:38 a.m., Bill wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/2022 10:56 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-02 9:59 a.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/2/2022 9:39 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-02 8:20 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 11:40 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:09:02 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nowadays, you're actually better off buying a machine pre-made
>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>> they do actually cost less,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Impossible. Your own one you pay for parts. Theirs you pay
>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>> same parts plus the assembly labour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Except that you disregard the fact that when manufacturers order
>>>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>>>> they do so in bulk and therefore pay less per unit than you do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> especially since graphics chips are being sold for exorbitant
>>>>>>>>>>> prices.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the builder magically doesn't pay more?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> See above.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right, to be as clear as possible, I was comparing OEM machines,
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> CPU-integrated video, to building my own with the same - if you
>>>>>>>> want a
>>>>>>>> video card, it's a great expense as a part, these days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's what I thought I was comparing at the very beginning
>>>>>>> of the thread when I mentioned the GPU being unnecessarily
>>>>>>> expensive as a result of bitcoin miners. It seems to be getting
>>>>>>> better, for the time being, but I would still opt to get a machine
>>>>>>> directly from a manufacturer to save money on that part, to take
>>>>>>> advantage of much better cable management than I could manage on
>>>>>>> my own and for the optimizations these people inevitably make. The
>>>>>>> one thing I find they do poorly is apply thermal compound and I
>>>>>>> can easily redo it if necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bought a "semi-built" computer once about 20 years ago. They
>>>>>> made critical errors--mainly they put an extra spacer under the
>>>>>> motherboard. They also put the RAM in the wrong slots. They even
>>>>>> put in a weaker PSU than the one I requested.
>>>>>> It took me weeks (months?) to figure why my computer was shorting out.
>>>>>> I spent $80 to send it back to them, and they returned it to me
>>>>>> with the extra spacer still under the motherboard. You can build a
>>>>>> computer at least as well if you care at all because you'll take
>>>>>> the time to get the details right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lesson learned: don't buy eMachines. :)
>>>>
>>>> At the time, I was a "newbie" and afraid of getting it wrong.. ha!
>>>
>>> Are you not surprised that I knew it was an eMachine from the
>>> description? :)
>>>
>>
>> Is eMachine a brand? If so, it wasn't the company I bought from, but it
>> was probably similar.
>
> It was. I don't know if they still exist but I would hope not. The
> manufacturer's name pretty much tells you what you can expect from them:
> an economical machine which cuts corners and probably hires the least
> expensive builder and technician they can. I've never owned one myself
> but I wouldn't expect their machines to be any good for even the most
> basic of tasks.

E could stand for many words.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lzenilumvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:03 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 14:14:48 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-03 12:05 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:14:27 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for the
>>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same: it's
>>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with the
>>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it. All of the other parts have a
>>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an
>>>>> incentive
>>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old (admittedly I
>>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>>
>>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>>> would honour a 10 year warranty. The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>>>> by then.
>>>
>>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>>> elsewhere, friend.
>>
>> Wow, such stupidity. Let's make this simpler shall we?
>
> Let's not. In fact, feel discouraged to respond to me. Your posts have
> are of no worth and since you are an admitted pirate, I have no reason
> to respect you as an individual either.

I have no reason to respect someone who still believes in god. What century do you live in?

>> Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers. We think it's
>> better to build our own.
>>
>> Now you know which side of the argument you're on, lets see if you can
>> argue against the right people?
>>
>> I was agreeing with you - it's best to build your own and buy the 10
>> year warranty PSU rather than the shop built one which is either a
>> Chinese PSU with Chinese amps, or a Corsair where you'll lose access to
>> the warranty when the shop goes under.
>
> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
> hoops to get that part replaced.

Bullshit. It's very easy.

> I would rather go straight to the place
> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty.

And if they're bust?

> I only want to fix it myself if absolutely necessary.

Fixing something yourself should always be the first option.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1lzeovzjmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 03:03:57 +0100
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:03 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:45:07 +0100, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-05-03 9:27 a.m., Joel wrote:
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>>> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>>> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>>> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>
>>
>> That's very reasonable, and most would feel the same. I actually
>> prefer to have a warranty on the individual parts, because I prefer to
>> handle hardware changes myself, but I'm not the average user.
>>
>
> I built 2 computers in 2010, one with an 850 watt Cooler master and one
> with an
> 850 watt Corsair PSU.
> When I rebuilt them a year and a half ago I reused both power supplies
> and they are still going strong now.
> It pays to buy premium parts even if they are more expensive, over the
> long haul they may turn out to be cheaper.

You can buy a cheap Chinese PSU and just assume it's half what it's rated at, then it's reliable. They make decent stuff, they just lie about the specs.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<yyNeK.4262$pqKf.1147@fx12.iad>

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 by: rabidR04CH - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:59 UTC

On 2022-05-10 8:25 p.m., Joel wrote:
> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>> however, I didn't buy my retail
>>> key [instead of an OEM copy] with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>
>> How is it easier? You click on the one you want.
>
>
> I got my key *instantly*, entirely online, not having a worthless
> DVD-ROM shipped to me. I couldn't care less, about the money I
> would've saved, by getting the cheaper OEM copy.

I was able to get Office 2021 Pro Plus for $50 a few days ago by opting
for the "send me the key" approach as well. It's a legitimate copy too.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<em9n7hlq7s8v03im84s37ffgvo0tb74qd9@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62452&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62452

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:07 UTC

rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>I was able to get Office 2021 Pro Plus for $50 a few days ago by opting
>for the "send me the key" approach as well. It's a legitimate copy too.

Interesting, is that different from the subscription to Office they're
promoting now? It sounds like it'd have all the same apps, although I
guess you don't automatically get new versions that way.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<f2on7hpeb9jt2uie35pnvnqi7q9vioi09i@4ax.com>

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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:13 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 07:59:26 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>On 2022-05-10 8:25 p.m., Joel wrote:
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> however, I didn't buy my retail
>>>> key [instead of an OEM copy] with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>>
>>> How is it easier? You click on the one you want.
>>
>>
>> I got my key *instantly*, entirely online, not having a worthless
>> DVD-ROM shipped to me. I couldn't care less, about the money I
>> would've saved, by getting the cheaper OEM copy.
>
>I was able to get Office 2021 Pro Plus for $50 a few days ago by opting
>for the "send me the key" approach as well. It's a legitimate copy too.

Is that *Microsoft* Office or some other product? If it's Microsoft
Office, where did you get it and how do you know it's legitimate?

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<gkSeK.6$SWc6.4@fx44.iad>

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 by: Bill - Wed, 11 May 2022 17:25 UTC

On 5/11/2022 7:59 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:

> I was able to get Office 2021 Pro Plus for $50 a few days ago by opting
> for the "send me the key" approach as well. It's a legitimate copy too.
>
>
Just curious. I'm still using Office 2010. What stands out in the
newer version that might make it worth an upgrade?

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1l0m34j9mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:03 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 01:25:49 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>> however, I didn't buy my retail
>>> key [instead of an OEM copy] with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>
>> How is it easier? You click on the one you want.
>
>
> I got my key *instantly*, entirely online, not having a worthless
> DVD-ROM shipped to me. I couldn't care less, about the money I
> would've saved, by getting the cheaper OEM copy.

But you have nothing concrete. What do you do when it fucks up?

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1l0m4px3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62459&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62459

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:03 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 12:59:26 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-10 8:25 p.m., Joel wrote:
>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> however, I didn't buy my retail
>>>> key [instead of an OEM copy] with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>>
>>> How is it easier? You click on the one you want.
>>
>>
>> I got my key *instantly*, entirely online, not having a worthless
>> DVD-ROM shipped to me. I couldn't care less, about the money I
>> would've saved, by getting the cheaper OEM copy.
>
> I was able to get Office 2021 Pro Plus for $50 a few days ago by opting
> for the "send me the key" approach as well. It's a legitimate copy too.

I got it instantly too, on Piratebay.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1l0m5gjsmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:04 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 18:25:31 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

> On 5/11/2022 7:59 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>
>> I was able to get Office 2021 Pro Plus for $50 a few days ago by opting
>> for the "send me the key" approach as well. It's a legitimate copy too.
>>
> Just curious. I'm still using Office 2010. What stands out in the
> newer version that might make it worth an upgrade?

More bugs obviously. What do you think "2021" means?

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<4k0o7hp2sp3mhbbnbf81slvptbpf95kku6@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62461&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62461

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Joel - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:40 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>>>> however, I didn't buy my retail
>>>> key [instead of an OEM copy] with any chance I'd use the tech support, I simply found it easier
>>>> to buy, I had the money.
>>>
>>> How is it easier? You click on the one you want.
>>
>> I got my key *instantly*, entirely online, not having a worthless
>> DVD-ROM shipped to me. I couldn't care less, about the money I
>> would've saved, by getting the cheaper OEM copy.
>
>But you have nothing concrete. What do you do when it fucks up?

I downloaded the Win10 installer to a USB drive, genius. I didn't
need Microsoft or Newegg to ship me that or a DVD-ROM. All I'd need
to do, if my SSD dies, is replace the drive, and boot the USB of Win11
21H2, and install.

--
Joel Crump

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1l0vdbm8mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62465&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62465

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 21:01 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 16:16:26 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-03 10:51 a.m., Bill wrote:
>> On 5/3/2022 9:14 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>
>>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the
>>> place of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is
>>> within the first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I
>>> only want to fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>>
>>
>> I told a family member that standing in line at the Apple store would
>> make me gag! : )
>
> If I didn't play games at all, I would feel comfortable buying an Apple
> laptop. Their warranty is magnificent and anyone requiring a repair is
> generally well treated and receives a repair in a respectable amount of
> time.

But you would have paid twice as much to buy it. And it's incompatible with everyone else.

> With this laptop, if ever I require a repair, I know that I am
> likely to be without a machine for weeks at a time so I can only hope
> that it doesn't break prematurely.

Don't stand on it like my neighbour does, which only involves her paying me 50 quid to replace the screen.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1l0ya9jymvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62467&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62467

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 11 May 2022 22:05 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:14:19 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

> On 5/3/2022 9:14 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-03 12:05 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:14:27 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-05-02 2:16 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 06:50:35 +0100, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/1/2022 8:21 AM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-01 8:11 a.m., Joel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would not have gotten anywhere near as killer of a machine, for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> money, from an OEM, compared to what I built from parts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You would have, it was just a matter of looking. A lot of media
>>>>>>> companies have done the research over the years to determine whether
>>>>>>> building it yourself is better and the result is always the same:
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> not. Besides, the OEM gives you a warranty of at least a year with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> purchase of their machine whereas you get nothing when you build it
>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Corsair PSUs I build into my machines come with a 10-year
>>>>>> warranty--though I never had to use it. All of the other parts have a
>>>>>> warranty too. Makers of prebuilt systems don't seem to have an
>>>>>> incentive
>>>>>> for their systems to last much longer than the 1 year warranty period
>>>>>> you mentioned. The computer I am using now is 7 years old
>>>>>> (admittedly I
>>>>>> did have to replace its GPU last year).
>>>>>
>>>>> And I doubt even if there was a Corsair in the shop bought PC, they
>>>>> would honour a 10 year warranty. The shop probably wouldn't even exist
>>>>> by then.
>>>>
>>>> I clearly said manufacturers, not shops. Go move the goalposts
>>>> elsewhere, friend.
>>>
>>> Wow, such stupidity. Let's make this simpler shall we?
>>
>> Let's not. In fact, feel discouraged to respond to me. Your posts have
>> are of no worth and since you are an admitted pirate, I have no reason
>> to respect you as an individual either.
>>
>>> Joel thinks shops are a good place to get computers. We think it's
>>> better to build our own.
>>>
>>> Now you know which side of the argument you're on, lets see if you can
>>> argue against the right people?
>>>
>>> I was agreeing with you - it's best to build your own and buy the 10
>>> year warranty PSU rather than the shop built one which is either a
>>> Chinese PSU with Chinese amps, or a Corsair where you'll lose access
>>> to the warranty when the shop goes under.
>>
>> A manufacturer warranty basically means that you have to jump through
>> hoops to get that part replaced. I would rather go straight to the place
>> of purchase and have them take care of whatever issue it is within the
>> first year or longer if I purchased an extended warranty. I only want to
>> fix it myself if absolutely necessary.
>>
>
> FWIW, I buy the Corsair PSUs with the 10 year warranty, NOT because of
> the warranty, but of their confidence in their product. Like you, I
> don't want to have to "jump through hoops", and that's why I buy quality
> parts from the onset--I jump through hoops to reduce my probability of
> disappointment from the build, and onward. From what I've seen of
> computer shops so far, they don't know more than me. A "computer shop"
> did not find the extra spacer under the motherboard that I mentioned
> earlier, and they charged me $40 or $50 anyway. But I eventually fixed
> it (I felt like I should have gone back and asked for my money back).
> It's a tough business, and they went out of business after a couple years.

I bought about 30 Alpine PSUs (now bankrupt) and deliberately ran them at full power for 24 hours to test them. I tell a lie, they actually lasted less than 1 minute, with a loud explosion and lots of smoke. When will the Chinese learn what an amp is?

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