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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: asrock?

SubjectAuthor
* asrock?T
+* Re: asrock?Rene Lamontagne
|+* Re: asrock?T
||`* Re: asrock?Rene Lamontagne
|| `* Re: asrock?T
||  `* Re: asrock?T
||   +- Re: asrock?Rene Lamontagne
||   `* Re: asrock?Paul
||    `* Re: asrock?T
||     +- Re: asrock?Paul
||     `- Re: asrock?Rene Lamontagne
|`- Re: asrock?Ken Blake
+- Re: asrock?DMP
+* Re: asrock?s|b
|`* Re: asrock?T
| +* Re: asrock?Paul
| |`* Re: asrock?T
| | `* Re: asrock?Paul
| |  `* Re: asrock?Char Jackson
| |   `* Re: asrock?Ken Blake
| |    `* Re: asrock?Paul
| |     +- Re: asrock?...winston
| |     +- Re: asrock?Chris
| |     `* Re: asrock?T
| |      `- Re: asrock?Paul
| `* Re: asrock?s|b
|  `- Re: asrock?T
`- Re: asrock?Ant

Pages:12
asrock?

<t5ccu3$d9l$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:51:13 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 00:51 UTC

Hi All,

Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
motherboards and their quality and tech support?

Been looking at:

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications

Many thanks,
-T

Re: asrock?

<jdtsefFit8nU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlam...@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 20:11:44 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Tue, 10 May 2022 01:11 UTC

On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>
> Been looking at:
>
> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>
>
> Many thanks,
> -T
>

Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what I
have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable, they are
up there with the top 2 or 3.

Someone who actually has one may be of more help.

They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus, They
are also made in Taiwan.'

Rene

Re: asrock?

<t5cfgf$v5i$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62366&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62366

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 18:35:10 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 01:35 UTC

On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>
>> Been looking at:
>>
>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> -T
>>
>
> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what I
> have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable, they are
> up there with the top 2 or 3.
>
> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>
>  They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus, They
> are also made in Taiwan.'
>
> Rene
>
Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
Thank you for your review.
I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
and sales ghosts you when you call and support
ticket them, so ...
I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
has been going on since the work at home started.
Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
I have a home office, if I did that, my business
would be dead in two weeks

Re: asrock?

<jdtucrFj8cpU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlam...@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 20:45:00 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Tue, 10 May 2022 01:45 UTC

On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>
>>> Been looking at:
>>>
>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> -T
>>>
>>
>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what I
>> have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable, they
>> are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>
>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>
>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus,
>> They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>
>> Rene
>>
>
> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>
> Thank you for your review.
>
> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
> ticket them, so ...
>
> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
> has been going on since the work at home started.
> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>
> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
> would be dead in two weeks

I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
Amazon .com $283
Newegg.com $221
Other prices probably vary a lot.
Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?

Rene

Re: asrock?

<t5chcs$9ge$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 19:07:24 -0700
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 02:07 UTC

On 5/9/22 18:45, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
>> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>>
>>>> Been looking at:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> -T
>>>>
>>>
>>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what I
>>> have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable, they
>>> are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>>
>>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>>
>>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus,
>>> They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>>
>>> Rene
>>>
>>
>> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>>
>> Thank you for your review.
>>
>> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
>> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
>> ticket them, so ...
>>
>> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
>> has been going on since the work at home started.
>> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>>
>> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
>> would be dead in two weeks
>
> I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
>  Amazon .com $283
>  Newegg.com   $221
> Other prices probably vary a lot.
> Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?
>
> Rene
It is for a customer's high end workstation. I will
probably get it through ASI.
I still have to go over the internal connectors to see
if the USB ports will match my previous designs.
If the customer wants cheap, I usually tell to go elsewhere.
This board support ECC memory.

Re: asrock?

<t5cir7$jdh$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 19:32:05 -0700
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 02:32 UTC

On 5/9/22 19:07, T wrote:
> On 5/9/22 18:45, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
>>> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>>>
>>>>> Been looking at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>> -T
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what
>>>> I have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable,
>>>> they are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>>>
>>>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>>>
>>>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus,
>>>> They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>>>
>>>> Rene
>>>>
>>>
>>> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your review.
>>>
>>> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
>>> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
>>> ticket them, so ...
>>>
>>> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
>>> has been going on since the work at home started.
>>> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>>>
>>> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
>>> would be dead in two weeks
>>
>> I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
>>   Amazon .com $283
>>   Newegg.com   $221
>> Other prices probably vary a lot.
>> Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?
>>
>> Rene
>
> It is for a customer's high end workstation.  I will
> probably get it through ASI.
>
> I still have to go over the internal connectors to see
> if the USB ports will match my previous designs.
>
> If the customer wants cheap, I usually tell to go elsewhere.
>
> This board support ECC memory.

Looking over the manual, The internal USB 3 connect
is too weird I can not connect anythng to it:
The internal speaker header does not fit the
cable for the front panel speaker connector
on my In Win case.
Poop!
Looks like I will go with Gigabyte's C246M-WU4
and hope I never have to connect with their
tech support of sales department
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/C246M-WU4-rev-1x#kf

Re: asrock?

<jdu4ibFkavcU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlam...@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 22:30:20 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Tue, 10 May 2022 03:30 UTC

On 2022-05-09 9:32 p.m., T wrote:
> On 5/9/22 19:07, T wrote:
>> On 5/9/22 18:45, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Been looking at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>> -T
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what
>>>>> I have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable,
>>>>> they are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>>>>
>>>>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus,
>>>>> They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>>>>
>>>>> Rene
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your review.
>>>>
>>>> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
>>>> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
>>>> ticket them, so ...
>>>>
>>>> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
>>>> has been going on since the work at home started.
>>>> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>>>>
>>>> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
>>>> would be dead in two weeks
>>>
>>> I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
>>>   Amazon .com $283
>>>   Newegg.com   $221
>>> Other prices probably vary a lot.
>>> Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?
>>>
>>> Rene
>>
>> It is for a customer's high end workstation.  I will
>> probably get it through ASI.
>>
>> I still have to go over the internal connectors to see
>> if the USB ports will match my previous designs.
>>
>> If the customer wants cheap, I usually tell to go elsewhere.
>>
>> This board support ECC memory.
>
>
> Looking over the manual, The internal USB 3 connect
> is too weird  I can not connect anythng to it:
>
> The internal speaker header does not fit the
> cable for the front panel speaker connector
> on my In Win case.
>
> Poop!
>
> Looks like I will go with Gigabyte's C246M-WU4
> and hope I never have to connect with their
> tech support of sales department
>
> https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/C246M-WU4-rev-1x#kf

That is indeed a weird USB3 connector, New one on me, all the ones I've
seen are the standard 10 pin with one pin blocked, Wonder where and when
that one crept in.

Rene

Re: asrock?

<t5csib$8q3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
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 by: Paul - Tue, 10 May 2022 05:18 UTC

On 5/9/2022 10:32 PM, T wrote:
> On 5/9/22 19:07, T wrote:
>> On 5/9/22 18:45, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Been looking at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>> -T
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what I have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable, they are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>>>>
>>>>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus, They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>>>>
>>>>> Rene
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your review.
>>>>
>>>> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
>>>> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
>>>> ticket them, so ...
>>>>
>>>> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
>>>> has been going on since the work at home started.
>>>> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>>>>
>>>> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
>>>> would be dead in two weeks
>>>
>>> I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
>>>   Amazon .com $283
>>>   Newegg.com   $221
>>> Other prices probably vary a lot.
>>> Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?
>>>
>>> Rene
>>
>> It is for a customer's high end workstation.  I will
>> probably get it through ASI.
>>
>> I still have to go over the internal connectors to see
>> if the USB ports will match my previous designs.
>>
>> If the customer wants cheap, I usually tell to go elsewhere.
>>
>> This board support ECC memory.
>
>
> Looking over the manual, The internal USB 3 connect
> is too weird  I can not connect anythng to it:
>
> The internal speaker header does not fit the
> cable for the front panel speaker connector
> on my In Win case.
>
> Poop!
>
> Looks like I will go with Gigabyte's C246M-WU4
> and hope I never have to connect with their
> tech support of sales department
>
> https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/C246M-WU4-rev-1x#kf

I would download the manual in each case, and check the ECC
support in the BIOS. I don't see a section for that in the
Asrock one.

There can be settings like "background Scrub" for ECC, where
the locations are checked in mechanical order, for correctness.
This requires initializing the entire memory at startup, so
that all locations have valid ECC and can be scrubbed to keep
it that way.

I'm very suspicion of Intel when it comes to ECC, after
receiving a product with ECC support... which was pinned off.
The companies were careful not to attract Intels temper,
by mentioning the ECC was busted in any public way.

This means I have to pass that along to chumps who think
they are getting ECC, then it doesn't work. When I don't
see an ECC setting in the manual, the worry begins.

It's true, that on some boards, the BIOS ECC "magically appears"
when ECC DIMMs are plugged in. But if you won't document that
shit in the manual (*no picture*), the ole spidey sense is a-tingling.
Hey, thanks Intel.

*******

The second thing I'd be interested in, is what power level
does that Xeon run at, under "Turbo" ? The Vcore regulator
looks kinda small, and you know how Intel likes stuff like
28 seconds at 224 Watts. These Xeons aren't going to be that
bad, but without a clearly stated spec, how will you ever
figure that out ? When some of the specs on equipment, only
get revealed in "reviews", what kind of engineering
operation does that ?

Must we buy product and return it, over and over again,
to get what we want ???

Paul

Re: asrock?

<t5ctvh$gvk$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62376&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62376

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 22:42:08 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 90
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 05:42 UTC

On 5/9/22 22:18, Paul wrote:
> On 5/9/2022 10:32 PM, T wrote:
>> On 5/9/22 19:07, T wrote:
>>> On 5/9/22 18:45, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Been looking at:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>> -T
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from
>>>>>> what I have read they are good boards, well built and quite
>>>>>> reliable, they are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus,
>>>>>> They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rene
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your review.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
>>>>> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
>>>>> ticket them, so ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
>>>>> has been going on since the work at home started.
>>>>> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
>>>>> would be dead in two weeks
>>>>
>>>> I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
>>>>   Amazon .com $283
>>>>   Newegg.com   $221
>>>> Other prices probably vary a lot.
>>>> Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?
>>>>
>>>> Rene
>>>
>>> It is for a customer's high end workstation.  I will
>>> probably get it through ASI.
>>>
>>> I still have to go over the internal connectors to see
>>> if the USB ports will match my previous designs.
>>>
>>> If the customer wants cheap, I usually tell to go elsewhere.
>>>
>>> This board support ECC memory.
>>
>>
>> Looking over the manual, The internal USB 3 connect
>> is too weird  I can not connect anythng to it:
>>
>> The internal speaker header does not fit the
>> cable for the front panel speaker connector
>> on my In Win case.
>>
>> Poop!
>>
>> Looks like I will go with Gigabyte's C246M-WU4
>> and hope I never have to connect with their
>> tech support of sales department
>>
>> https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/C246M-WU4-rev-1x#kf
>
> I would download the manual in each case, and check the ECC
> support in the BIOS. I don't see a section for that in the
> Asrock one.
>
> There can be settings like "background Scrub" for ECC, where
> the locations are checked in mechanical order, for correctness.
> This requires initializing the entire memory at startup, so
> that all locations have valid ECC and can be scrubbed to keep
> it that way.
>
> I'm very suspicion of Intel when it comes to ECC, after
> receiving a product with ECC support... which was pinned off.
> The companies were careful not to attract Intels temper,
> by mentioning the ECC was busted in any public way.
>
> This means I have to pass that along to chumps who think
> they are getting ECC, then it doesn't work. When I don't
> see an ECC setting in the manual, the worry begins.
>
> It's true, that on some boards, the BIOS ECC "magically appears"
> when ECC DIMMs are plugged in. But if you won't document that
> shit in the manual (*no picture*), the ole spidey sense is a-tingling.
> Hey, thanks Intel.
>
> *******
>
> The second thing I'd be interested in, is what power level
> does that Xeon run at, under "Turbo" ? The Vcore regulator
> looks kinda small, and you know how Intel likes stuff like
> 28 seconds at 224 Watts. These Xeons aren't going to be that
> bad, but without a clearly stated spec, how will you ever
> figure that out ? When some of the specs on equipment, only
> get revealed in "reviews", what kind of engineering
> operation does that ?
>
> Must we buy product and return it, over and over again,
> to get what we want ???
>
>    Paul
Since it would be returned to me, I have to make
sure it is right to start with.
I have the manuals for both boards. It is Standard
procedure.
On the AS Rock I found 7 hits on ECC. One hit
on the Gigabayte.
The processor (E-2324G) is only going to be four
cores. Windows 10/11 can't really use much more
than that effectively and you are throwing you
money away.
The goal is fast (NVMe) and long lived.
I do not like reading review on line. They are such
bull s***. Most are paid reviews. When I ask
here, I get honest answers. No one is paying anyone on
this list to answer Todd.

Re: asrock?

<t5dfmc$eod$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62384&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62384

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From: mungem...@nospam.com (DMP)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 06:44:25 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: DMP - Tue, 10 May 2022 10:44 UTC

On 5/9/2022 8:51 PM, T wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>
> Been looking at:
>
> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>
>
> Many thanks,
> -T
>

I have had two Asrock boards. The quality is decent and neither was
defective. Their forum is pretty active and any questions I had were
answered there. My recollection is that tech support actively
participates in the forum from what I remember. I can't say how they are
about the return of problem products however.

D.

Re: asrock?

<t5domc$rpm$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62387&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62387

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 09:18:03 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul - Tue, 10 May 2022 13:18 UTC

On 5/10/2022 1:42 AM, T wrote:

> Since it would be returned to me, I have to make
> sure it is right to start with.
>
> I have the manuals for both boards.  It is Standard
> procedure.
>
> On the AS Rock I found 7 hits on ECC.  One hit
> on the Gigabayte.
>
> The processor (E-2324G) is only going to be four
> cores.  Windows 10/11 can't really use much more
> than that effectively and you are throwing you
> money away.
>
> The goal is fast (NVMe) and long lived.
>
> I do not like reading review on line.  They are such
> bull s***.  Most are paid reviews.  When I ask
> here, I get honest answers.  No one is paying anyone on
> this list to answer Todd.

The Asrock board I had was OK.

One question, would be whether it was a good idea
to be getting Xeon boards, from non-server companies.

Alternates would be Tyan, Mitac, SuperMicro and so on.

Gigabyte may have made some server-like items, before
Asrock started doing it. Asus makes some too, but the
hardware content looks suspiciously similar to Asrock
(Same chips, different layout).

I don't know what's happened to the rest of the
motherboard companies. Every year I might see
a couple ECS offerings, but I don't know what
has happened to them lately.

Paul

Re: asrock?

<jdv9jrFr3rcU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62388&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62388

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From: rlam...@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 09:02:36 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Tue, 10 May 2022 14:02 UTC

On 2022-05-10 12:42 a.m., T wrote:
> On 5/9/22 22:18, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/9/2022 10:32 PM, T wrote:
>>> On 5/9/22 19:07, T wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/22 18:45, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-09 8:35 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/9/22 18:11, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>>>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Been looking at:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>> -T
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from
>>>>>>> what I have read they are good boards, well built and quite
>>>>>>> reliable, they are up there with the top 2 or 3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   They are now a company in their own right and not owned by
>>>>>>> Asus, They are also made in Taiwan.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rene
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great stuff comes out of Taiwan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your review.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like Gigabyte too, but their tech support
>>>>>> and sales ghosts you when you call and support
>>>>>> ticket them, so ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am really getting tired of the ghosting that
>>>>>> has been going on since the work at home started.
>>>>>> Geez, get a pay check and do nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a home office, if I did that, my business
>>>>>> would be dead in two weeks
>>>>>
>>>>> I looks like a pretty good fairly high end item, not a cheapie,
>>>>>   Amazon .com $283
>>>>>   Newegg.com   $221
>>>>> Other prices probably vary a lot.
>>>>> Do you plan to use this as a new Server, or other ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rene
>>>>
>>>> It is for a customer's high end workstation.  I will
>>>> probably get it through ASI.
>>>>
>>>> I still have to go over the internal connectors to see
>>>> if the USB ports will match my previous designs.
>>>>
>>>> If the customer wants cheap, I usually tell to go elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> This board support ECC memory.
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking over the manual, The internal USB 3 connect
>>> is too weird  I can not connect anythng to it:
>>>
>>> The internal speaker header does not fit the
>>> cable for the front panel speaker connector
>>> on my In Win case.
>>>
>>> Poop!
>>>
>>> Looks like I will go with Gigabyte's C246M-WU4
>>> and hope I never have to connect with their
>>> tech support of sales department
>>>
>>> https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/C246M-WU4-rev-1x#kf
>>
>> I would download the manual in each case, and check the ECC
>> support in the BIOS. I don't see a section for that in the
>> Asrock one.
>>
>> There can be settings like "background Scrub" for ECC, where
>> the locations are checked in mechanical order, for correctness.
>> This requires initializing the entire memory at startup, so
>> that all locations have valid ECC and can be scrubbed to keep
>> it that way.
>>
>> I'm very suspicion of Intel when it comes to ECC, after
>> receiving a product with ECC support... which was pinned off.
>> The companies were careful not to attract Intels temper,
>> by mentioning the ECC was busted in any public way.
>>
>> This means I have to pass that along to chumps who think
>> they are getting ECC, then it doesn't work. When I don't
>> see an ECC setting in the manual, the worry begins.
>>
>> It's true, that on some boards, the BIOS ECC "magically appears"
>> when ECC DIMMs are plugged in. But if you won't document that
>> shit in the manual (*no picture*), the ole spidey sense is a-tingling.
>> Hey, thanks Intel.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> The second thing I'd be interested in, is what power level
>> does that Xeon run at, under "Turbo" ? The Vcore regulator
>> looks kinda small, and you know how Intel likes stuff like
>> 28 seconds at 224 Watts. These Xeons aren't going to be that
>> bad, but without a clearly stated spec, how will you ever
>> figure that out ? When some of the specs on equipment, only
>> get revealed in "reviews", what kind of engineering
>> operation does that ?
>>
>> Must we buy product and return it, over and over again,
>> to get what we want ???
>>
>>     Paul
>
> Since it would be returned to me, I have to make
> sure it is right to start with.
>
> I have the manuals for both boards.  It is Standard
> procedure.
>
> On the AS Rock I found 7 hits on ECC.  One hit
> on the Gigabayte.
>
> The processor (E-2324G) is only going to be four
> cores.  Windows 10/11 can't really use much more
> than that effectively and you are throwing you
> money away.
>
> The goal is fast (NVMe) and long lived.
>
> I do not like reading review on line.  They are such
> bull s***.  Most are paid reviews.  When I ask
> here, I get honest answers.  No one is paying anyone on
> this list to answer Todd.
>

The weird USB3 connector that Asrock uses is actually 2 standard 10 pin
headers end to end on the same socket, dunno why!

Rene

Re: asrock?

<el2l7h17d3rqdrqsb0g71j634nbntr9fjh@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 08:55:50 -0700
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <el2l7h17d3rqdrqsb0g71j634nbntr9fjh@4ax.com>
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 10 May 2022 15:55 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 20:11:44 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>On 2022-05-09 7:51 p.m., T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>
>> Been looking at:
>>
>> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> -T
>>
>
>Opinion only, Never having used one to give a review, but from what I
>have read they are good boards, well built and quite reliable, they are
>up there with the top 2 or 3.

I don't have a lot of experience with them, but my previous computer
had an Asrock motherboard and it was very good and very reliable.

>
>Someone who actually has one may be of more help.
>
> They are now a company in their own right and not owned by Asus, They
>are also made in Taiwan.'
>
>Rene

Re: asrock?

<jdvsncF5t1U1@mid.individual.net>

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Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 21:28:44 +0200
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 by: s|b - Tue, 10 May 2022 19:28 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:51:13 -0700, T wrote:

> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
> motherboards and their quality and tech support?

have you asked in alt.comp.hardware and/or
alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt? They seem dead, but there are still
people lurking.

--
s|b

Re: asrock?

<t5eeuv$ric$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 12:38:07 -0700
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 19:38 UTC

On 5/10/22 12:28, s|b wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:51:13 -0700, T wrote:
>
>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>
> have you asked in alt.comp.hardware and/or
> alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt? They seem dead, but there are still
> people lurking.
>

I asked here because I know all they guys and trust them.
(Well not the turkeys in the kill file, but I can't see them
anyway.)

Re: asrock?

<t5ehhs$hrr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 16:22:19 -0400
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 by: Paul - Tue, 10 May 2022 20:22 UTC

On 5/10/2022 3:38 PM, T wrote:
> On 5/10/22 12:28, s|b wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:51:13 -0700, T wrote:
>>
>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>
>> have you asked in alt.comp.hardware and/or
>> alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt? They seem dead, but there are still
>> people lurking.
>>
>
> I asked here because I know all they guys and trust them.
> (Well not the turkeys in the kill file, but I can't see them
> anyway.)

The attraction of Asrock, would be some niche feature.

Probably the pile of SATA ports, is their attempt in this case.

With FLEXIO in the chipset, the mobo designer can emphasize one
thing over another. Like have fewer M.2 and more SATA.

Sometimes, this causes conflicts, such as if you plug in
an NVMe, a couple of the SATA stop working. A good manual
gives an if-then-else tree of "consequences".

They might also have bifurcation logic (four chips near
primary video), to split the x16 into (2) x8 or whatever.
The mux chips are dual channel, and Broadcom bought the
company that made them, and jacked up the price. Which is
why, for a while, bifurcation logic all but disappeared.

The never-ending influence of Intel, sometimes the (2) x8
mode is switched off so the designer can't use it. I haven't
traced down the details on that, to discover if this is
just Intel bashing, or is for real as a feature. That
they could alter the bring-up behavior so the mode is
not available.

When analyzing the offering, you have to compare
port counts on each product, to spot the "niche feature"
activity at work in the design. At one time, it was PS/2 ports.
But a lot of other companies still toss in a single PS/2
with kbd-mouse (splitter) wiring.

Paul

Re: asrock?

<t5ei74$mv4$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 13:33:38 -0700
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 by: T - Tue, 10 May 2022 20:33 UTC

On 5/10/22 13:22, Paul wrote:
> On 5/10/2022 3:38 PM, T wrote:
>> On 5/10/22 12:28, s|b wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:51:13 -0700, T wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
>>>> motherboards and their quality and tech support?
>>>
>>> have you asked in alt.comp.hardware and/or
>>> alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt? They seem dead, but there are still
>>> people lurking.
>>>
>>
>> I asked here because I know all they guys and trust them.
>> (Well not the turkeys in the kill file, but I can't see them
>> anyway.)
>
> The attraction of Asrock, would be some niche feature.
>
> Probably the pile of SATA ports, is their attempt in this case.
>
> With FLEXIO in the chipset, the mobo designer can emphasize one
> thing over another. Like have fewer M.2 and more SATA.
>
> Sometimes, this causes conflicts, such as if you plug in
> an NVMe, a couple of the SATA stop working. A good manual
> gives an if-then-else tree of "consequences".
>
> They might also have bifurcation logic (four chips near
> primary video), to split the x16 into (2) x8 or whatever.
> The mux chips are dual channel, and Broadcom bought the
> company that made them, and jacked up the price. Which is
> why, for a while, bifurcation logic all but disappeared.
>
> The never-ending influence of Intel, sometimes the (2) x8
> mode is switched off so the designer can't use it. I haven't
> traced down the details on that, to discover if this is
> just Intel bashing, or is for real as a feature. That
> they could alter the bring-up behavior so the mode is
> not available.
>
> When analyzing the offering, you have to compare
> port counts on each product, to spot the "niche feature"
> activity at work in the design. At one time, it was PS/2 ports.
> But a lot of other companies still toss in a single PS/2
> with kbd-mouse (splitter) wiring.
>
>    Paul
Does flex IO also apply to usb ports?
There never seems to be enough, which is why I
add rear bracket USB2 ports to take advantage
of the USB2 on board headers. Some devices
just do not like USB3 still.
I'd personally like less sata port and more NVMe ports.
Here is a question no one else has ever answered for me,
including Samsung's tech support:
Can you use two NVMe drives in RAID 1 (mirror)?
I have heard hints that RAID 0 (spanning) works
but RAID 1 has issues with heat or wear leveling
or something.

Re: asrock?

<t5ftm0$bgr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 04:55:27 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 11 May 2022 08:55 UTC

On 5/10/2022 4:33 PM, T wrote:

> Does flex IO also apply to usb ports?
>
> There never seems to be enough, which is why I
> add rear bracket USB2 ports to take advantage
> of the USB2 on board headers.  Some devices
> just do not like USB3 still.
>
> I'd personally like less sata port and more NVMe ports.
>
> Here is a question no one else has ever answered for me,
> including Samsung's tech support:
>
>    Can you use two NVMe drives in RAID 1 (mirror)?
>
> I have heard hints that RAID 0 (spanning) works
> but RAID 1 has issues with heat or wear leveling
> or something.

I would think software RAID 1 would be possible.

It would not be a good idea though, because of
correlated failure scenarios (don't use two identical
drives, fresh out of the box).

RAID 0 is striping (for speed).

RAID 1 is mirroring (for reliability)

Dynamic Disk does spanning (a Veritas feature used by Microsoft).

And some Storage Thingy Microsoft invented, likely also
does spanning. But it was not perfected enough before
it was thrown onto the side of the road. Storage Spaces ? Dunno.
Char might have played with some of that sort of stuff. I have
no use for large drive sets here (I have no NAS).

Paul

Re: asrock?

<g7nn7hpicd4tlop5a2rpefbkmk1lvk02t8@4ax.com>

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
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 by: Char Jackson - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:05 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 04:55:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 5/10/2022 4:33 PM, T wrote:
>
>> Does flex IO also apply to usb ports?
>>
>> There never seems to be enough, which is why I
>> add rear bracket USB2 ports to take advantage
>> of the USB2 on board headers.  Some devices
>> just do not like USB3 still.
>>
>> I'd personally like less sata port and more NVMe ports.
>>
>> Here is a question no one else has ever answered for me,
>> including Samsung's tech support:
>>
>>    Can you use two NVMe drives in RAID 1 (mirror)?
>>
>> I have heard hints that RAID 0 (spanning) works
>> but RAID 1 has issues with heat or wear leveling
>> or something.
>
>I would think software RAID 1 would be possible.
>
>It would not be a good idea though, because of
>correlated failure scenarios (don't use two identical
>drives, fresh out of the box).
>
>RAID 0 is striping (for speed).
>
>RAID 1 is mirroring (for reliability)
>
>Dynamic Disk does spanning (a Veritas feature used by Microsoft).
>
>And some Storage Thingy Microsoft invented, likely also
>does spanning. But it was not perfected enough before
>it was thrown onto the side of the road. Storage Spaces ? Dunno.
>Char might have played with some of that sort of stuff. I have
>no use for large drive sets here (I have no NAS).

I've only used DriveBender https://www.drivebender.com

They call it drive pooling, AKA spanning. As a result, Windows thinks I
have a 60TB volume on this PC and a 40TB volume on another PC. Files are
always stored on (at least) one drive and can be browsed or recovered by
any disk tool, whether the drive is in the pool or pulled out. Folders
can be designated so that the files within are silently mirrored to a
second drive in the pool.

Re: asrock?

<26on7h5pap0i78lv372hsvonbg4hft8eoe@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:16 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 04:55:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>RAID 0 is striping (for speed).

In theory, for speed. In practice it does nothing in my experience.

>>RAID 1 is mirroring (for reliability)

No, mirroring is not really for reliability.

RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more
drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not
backup. It's used in situations (almost always within corporations,
not in homes) where any downtime can't be tolerated, because the way
it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over seamlessly.

See
https://www.howtogeek.com/346907/backups-vs.-redundancy-what%e2%80%99s-the-difference/
Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, that is
*not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the
original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening
your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus
attacks, theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1
also have a strong external backup plan in place.

"Why RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea"
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29

Re: asrock?

<t5h540$drb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 16:08:31 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 11 May 2022 20:08 UTC

On 5/11/2022 12:16 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2022 04:55:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> RAID 0 is striping (for speed).
>
> In theory, for speed. In practice it does nothing in my experience.
>
>
>>> RAID 1 is mirroring (for reliability)
>
>
> No, mirroring is not really for reliability.
>
> RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more
> drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not
> backup. It's used in situations (almost always within corporations,
> not in homes) where any downtime can't be tolerated, because the way
> it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over seamlessly.
>
> See
> https://www.howtogeek.com/346907/backups-vs.-redundancy-what%e2%80%99s-the-difference/
> Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, that is
> *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the
> original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening
> your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus
> attacks, theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1
> also have a strong external backup plan in place.
>
> "Why RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea"
> http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29
>

OK, let's build a RAID 1.

Now, compute the conditional probability of data loss.

What does that tell you ?

The naive calc (no modeling details included) gives:

One disk = P1 = 0.000001

Two disks = P1 * P2 = 0.000001 * 0.000001 = 0.000000000001 # a smaller risk
# of total data loss

As a hardware block, the two disk set has a higher
reliability number *for total data loss* as compared
to doing the computation for a single disk.

At work, I did just the basics of redundancy for systems,
and could at least note what level of benefits accrue.
We had a PhD with a Markov Chain Model tool he wrote
himself, for working out the details and providing
succinct numbers for customers.

And reliability calcs are "like a Ouija board". Parties
to the calc, try to push the slider with their fingers,
to the "Yes" or "No" position on the board. You do this,
by accepting or rejecting ridiculous failure possibilities.

What I would do, is provide basic lectures for
staff, why we were "putting two of something" in
a system. Then I would explain all the cases where
this was a stupid idea, such as if the building caught
file and the entire grand machine was burned to a crisp.
It's not 0.000000000001 , because the odds of the building
catching fire, are higher than that number.

RAID has a purpose. In a corporate environment.

The justification in a home environment, isn't there.

In a corporate environment, if an array goes Degraded at
2PM, everyone just keeps on working. At 5PM, the IT guy
then works on it (puts a fresh disk in array and does
a rebuild), and he goes home at midnight.

But shit does happen. We lost all disks on a RAID 5
at 2PM in the afternoon. This was caused by a firmware
bug on the RAID controller card. By the RAID being offline,
there was around $500,000 in lost wages. The restore was
done using a tape system, and was ready at 5PM... when
everyone had gone home for the day.

When you draw the markov chain for the RAID 5, there is
a separate entry for "estimated firmware bug rate". And
that influences the overall conditional probability of
data loss.

Moving to software RAID, the markov chain has an
"estimated software bug rate" number, to augment
the basic MTBF numbers of the individual disks.
The reliability of the array drops, once software
or firmware effects are included. Doing it with
software, and a dumb SATA card, doesn't help at all.
It's the same design issue, pushed to a different
subsystem (the OS).

Nobody would ever think of firmware failures as
a possibility, until they get a very expensive example.
Now, go back and read the article on how the
Space Shuttle worked. And why it had five computers.
The rocket scientists don't miss this stuff :-)

But neither can ordinary items have five computers
like the Space Shuttle. That would be too expensive.

You have probably seen reports of Cloud services
going offline for hours or a whole day. A five-way
scheme would likely cause such instances to drop to zero.
Because part of the redundancy there, involves using
two entirely different implementations of the
same software function. If one has a bug, you switch
to the other (working) software.

Paul

Re: asrock?

<gbCdnWxynqaxu-H_nZ2dnUU7-Q2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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Subject: Re: asrock?
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 by: Ant - Wed, 11 May 2022 21:10 UTC

My friend and I built my new upgraded custom primary computer (media
center/home theater/theatre (HTPC), gaming, and workstation box): Intel
Core i5-10400 Comet Lake 2.9GHz 6-Core LGA 1200 CPU (includes Intel UHD
630 GPU), ASRock H510M-HDV/M.2 Intel LGA 1200 microATX motherboard,
Crucial Ballistix Gaming 16GB (2 x 8 GB = 16 GB of RAM) DDR4-3200
PC4-25600 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit BL2K8G32C16U4B, MSI
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti (N750TI-2GD5/OC; 2 GB of VRAM; VGA to KVM and
HDMI to connect to a 21.5" Samsung SyncMaster T22B350ND HDTV), Corsair
Carbide Series 300R ATX mid-tower case, WD Black SN750 1 TB with
Heatsink (WDS100T3XHC) M.2 NVMe Interface PCIe 3.0 x4 Internal Solid
State Drive (SSD) with 3D TLC NAND 2280, WDC WD20EZRX-00D8PB0 SATA 2 TB
HDD for storage/backup/secondary, onboard Intel Ethernet I219-V, onboard
RealTek HD Audio, Sea Sonic S12II Bronze (520 watts) power supply unit
(PSU), a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 PCIe (dual tuners), 2 SATA DVDRW
burner drives (LG HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH24NS50 & Sony NEC Optiarc DVD-RW
AD-7220S), and Logitech Z-2300 speakers (2.1 setup and analog). Running
64-bit Windows 10 Pro. (21H2) since 5/29/2021. So far, it works well. We
haven't had to deal with support yet.

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Hi All,

> Any of you guys have an opinion as to AS Rock's
> motherboards and their quality and tech support?

> Been looking at:

> https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M%20WS#Specifications

> Many thanks,
> -T

--
Not a bad Tuesday. Will hump day be the same? Incoming heat wave starts tomorrow. :O
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Re: asrock?

<t5jcoi$lf$1@dont-email.me>

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From: winston...@gmail.com (...winston)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 12:31:12 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: ...winston - Thu, 12 May 2022 16:31 UTC

Paul wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 12:16 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 04:55:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> RAID 0 is striping (for speed).
>>
>> In theory, for speed. In practice it does nothing in my experience.
>>
>>
>>>> RAID 1 is mirroring (for reliability)
>>
>>
>> No, mirroring is not really for reliability.
>>
>> RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more
>> drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not
>> backup. It's used in situations (almost always within corporations,
>> not in homes) where any downtime can't be tolerated, because the way
>> it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over seamlessly.
>>
>> See
>> https://www.howtogeek.com/346907/backups-vs.-redundancy-what%e2%80%99s-the-difference/
>>
>> Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, that is
>> *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the
>> original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening
>> your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus
>> attacks, theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1
>> also have a strong external backup plan in place.
>>
>> "Why RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea"
>> http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29
>>
>
> OK, let's build a RAID 1.
>
> Now, compute the conditional probability of data loss.
>
> What does that tell you ?
>
> The naive calc (no modeling details included) gives:
>
>    One disk  = P1 = 0.000001
>
>    Two disks = P1 * P2 = 0.000001 * 0.000001 = 0.000000000001  # a
> smaller risk
>                                                                # of
> total data loss
>
> As a hardware block, the two disk set has a higher
> reliability number *for total data loss* as compared
> to doing the computation for a single disk.
>
> At work, I did just the basics of redundancy for systems,
> and could at least note what level of benefits accrue.
> We had a PhD with a Markov Chain Model tool he wrote
> himself, for working out the details and providing
> succinct numbers for customers.
>
> And reliability calcs are "like a Ouija board". Parties
> to the calc, try to push the slider with their fingers,
> to the "Yes" or "No" position on the board. You do this,
> by accepting or rejecting ridiculous failure possibilities.
>
> What I would do, is provide basic lectures for
> staff, why we were "putting two of something" in
> a system. Then I would explain all the cases where
> this was a stupid idea, such as if the building caught
> file and the entire grand machine was burned to a crisp.
> It's not 0.000000000001 ,  because the odds of the building
> catching fire, are higher than that number.
>
> RAID has a purpose. In a corporate environment.
>
> The justification in a home environment, isn't there.
>
> In a corporate environment, if an array goes Degraded at
> 2PM, everyone just keeps on working. At 5PM, the IT guy
> then works on it (puts a fresh disk in array and does
> a rebuild), and he goes home at midnight.
>
> But shit does happen. We lost all disks on a RAID 5
> at 2PM in the afternoon. This was caused by a firmware
> bug on the RAID controller card. By the RAID being offline,
> there was around $500,000 in lost wages. The restore was
> done using a tape system, and was ready at 5PM... when
> everyone had gone home for the day.
>
> When you draw the markov chain for the RAID 5, there is
> a separate entry for "estimated firmware bug rate". And
> that influences the overall conditional probability of
> data loss.
>
> Moving to software RAID, the markov chain has an
> "estimated software bug rate" number, to augment
> the basic MTBF numbers of the individual disks.
> The reliability of the array drops, once software
> or firmware effects are included. Doing it with
> software, and a dumb SATA card, doesn't help at all.
> It's the same design issue, pushed to a different
> subsystem (the OS).
>
> Nobody would ever think of firmware failures as
> a possibility, until they get a very expensive example.
> Now, go back and read the article on how the
> Space Shuttle worked. And why it had five computers.
> The rocket scientists don't miss this stuff :-)
>
> But neither can ordinary items have five computers
> like the Space Shuttle. That would be too expensive.
>
> You have probably seen reports of Cloud services
> going offline for hours or a whole day. A five-way
> scheme would likely cause such instances to drop to zero.
> Because part of the redundancy there, involves using
> two entirely different implementations of the
> same software function. If one has a bug, you switch
> to the other (working) software.
>
>    Paul

For the home user, RAID doesn't make much sense.

I did note the disclaimer on the Puget Systems site's article.
"Always look at the date when you read a hardware article. Some of the
content in this article is most likely out of date, as it was written on
February 5, 2007"

Puget Systems - good company, pricey of late. My last three desktop
devices were built by them. Not one single hardware or system issue,
ever. Life time tech and labor support.

Re: asrock?

<t5jf44$ilt$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

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From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 17:11:32 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Chris - Thu, 12 May 2022 17:11 UTC

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 12:16 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 04:55:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> RAID 0 is striping (for speed).
>>
>> In theory, for speed. In practice it does nothing in my experience.
>>
>>
>>>> RAID 1 is mirroring (for reliability)
>>
>>
>> No, mirroring is not really for reliability.
>>
>> RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more
>> drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not
>> backup. It's used in situations (almost always within corporations,
>> not in homes) where any downtime can't be tolerated, because the way
>> it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over seamlessly.
>>
>> See
>> https://www.howtogeek.com/346907/backups-vs.-redundancy-what%e2%80%99s-the-difference/
>> Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, that is
>> *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the
>> original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening
>> your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus
>> attacks, theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1
>> also have a strong external backup plan in place.
>>
>> "Why RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea"
>> http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29
>>
>
> OK, let's build a RAID 1.
>
> Now, compute the conditional probability of data loss.
>
> What does that tell you ?
>
> The naive calc (no modeling details included) gives:
>
> One disk = P1 = 0.000001

I presume that's a probability of failure at time t.

> Two disks = P1 * P2 = 0.000001 * 0.000001 = 0.000000000001 # a smaller risk
> # of total data loss
>
> As a hardware block, the two disk set has a higher
> reliability number *for total data loss* as compared
> to doing the computation for a single disk.

That's assuming that disk failure is uncorrelated. It isn't. It is very
correlated which is why the real world failure rates of RAID are higher
than the naive assumption. RAID only works if it's supported by active
monitoring.

> Nobody would ever think of firmware failures as
> a possibility, until they get a very expensive example.
> Now, go back and read the article on how the
> Space Shuttle worked. And why it had five computers.
> The rocket scientists don't miss this stuff :-)
>
> But neither can ordinary items have five computers
> like the Space Shuttle. That would be too expensive.
>
> You have probably seen reports of Cloud services
> going offline for hours or a whole day. A five-way
> scheme would likely cause such instances to drop to zero.
> Because part of the redundancy there, involves using
> two entirely different implementations of the
> same software function. If one has a bug, you switch
> to the other (working) software.

These big outages often ignore the human element. The Facebook one was
caused by human error, but made worse by their systems. Facebook built
everything on the same system that when it went down the maintenance team
couldn't get into the server warehouse because their swipe cards didn't
work.

Like you say in different words avoid any and all single points of failure.

Re: asrock?

<t5l6la$f3t$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62493&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62493

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: asrock?
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 01:59:20 -0700
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 by: T - Fri, 13 May 2022 08:59 UTC

On 5/11/22 13:08, Paul wrote:
> RAID has a purpose. In a corporate environment.
>
> The justification in a home environment, isn't there.
I use RSTe RAID 1 on small business computers that
can not afford the downtime.
I like it where they use a dedicated workstation as
their file server. I do that a lot. Windows Server
are such s***.
The main problem I have with RSTe RAID 1 is that
I threaten them to every morning check the RSTe icon
in the notification area for a green check mark.
Only one one customer actually does. The rest just
ignore it and call me when all three drives (hot
spare) drop out. I have to go into RSTe bios
and re-enable the drives and rebuild them. But
it works and take about an hour and they are back up.
They also SELDOM check their backup reports. They
consider them to be spam. Giving the hell over it
only works for a few weeks.

I have never attempted RSTe RAID 1 with dual NVMe
drives. The newer mother boards now have two NVMe
slots. On the other hand, two slots make cloning
a lot easier.
I am not getting clear information on RSTe RAID 1
and NVMe drives from anywhere.

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