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computers / alt.os.linux.mint / Re: Who do I blame?

SubjectAuthor
* Who do I blame?pinnerite
+* Re: Who do I blame?Dan Purgert
|`* Re: Who do I blame?pinnerite
| +* Re: Who do I blame?pinnerite
| |`* Re: Who do I blame?Dan Purgert
| | `- Re: Who do I blame?Paul
| `* Re: Who do I blame?Paul
|  `- Re: Who do I blame?Big Al
+- Re: Who do I blame?Jack Lemmon
`* Re: Who do I blame?pinnerite
 +- Re: Who do I blame?Mike Easter
 +* Re: Who do I blame?stepore
 |`* Re: Who do I blame?pinnerite
 | +- Re: Who do I blame?Big Al
 | `* Re: Who do I blame?stepore
 |  +- Re: Who do I blame?Ramos
 |  `* Re: Who do I blame?RonB
 |   `* Re: Who do I blame?stepore
 |    `- Re: Who do I blame?RonB
 `- Re: Who do I blame?Mark Bourne

1
Who do I blame?

<20230606153854.65d9a773d168ffedbd54d849@gmail.com>

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Who do I blame?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 15:38:54 +0100
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 by: pinnerite - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:38 UTC

This is a chicken and egg conundrum.

Until a few weeks ago i was running Linux Mint 20.3 and VirtualBox 6.1.12.
My Windows XP guest was able to access a USB connected Fujitsu scanner.

I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same Windows XP guest.
Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.

Both systems had VB extensions and guest extensions added.

The user in both systems was included in the vboxuser group.

Who do I blame?

--
Mint 21.1, kernel 5.15.0-73-generic, Cinnamon 5.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 16GB of DRAM.

Re: Who do I blame?

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From: dan...@djph.net (Dan Purgert)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58:01 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Dan Purgert - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58 UTC

On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
> [...]
> I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same
> Windows XP guest. Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
>
> Who do I blame?

Vbox.

Make sure it's passing the USB device through in the (vbox) config for
that VM .

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

Re: Who do I blame?

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:28:41 +0100
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 by: pinnerite - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 15:28 UTC

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58:01 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:

> On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
> > [...]
> > I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same
> > Windows XP guest. Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
> >
> > Who do I blame?
>
> Vbox.
>
> Make sure it's passing the USB device through in the (vbox) config for
> that VM .
>

I had it set for USB 2.0 so tried it for USB 1.1.

Made no difference.

Re: Who do I blame?

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:47:17 +0100
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 by: pinnerite - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 15:47 UTC

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:28:41 +0100
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58:01 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same
> > > Windows XP guest. Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
> > >
> > > Who do I blame?
> >
> > Vbox.
> >
> > Make sure it's passing the USB device through in the (vbox) config for
> > that VM .
> >
>
> I had it set for USB 2.0 so tried it for USB 1.1.
>
> Made no difference.

I just added a specific filter for the Fujitsu fi-6130, vendor code 0c45 and product code 1141.

Still made no difference.

--
sed (GNU sed) 4.8
Packaged by Debian
Copyright © 2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
Licence GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>.
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Written by Jay Fenlason, Tom Lord, Ken Pizzini,
Paolo Bonzini, Jim Meyering, and Assaf Gordon.

This sed program was built with SELinux support.
SELinux is disabled on this system.

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General help using GNU software: <https://www.gnu.org/gethelp/>.
E-mail bug reports to: <bug-sed@gnu.org>.

Re: Who do I blame?

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
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 by: Dan Purgert - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:05 UTC

On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:28:41 +0100
> pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58:01 -0000 (UTC)
>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
>> > > [...]
>> > > I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same
>> > > Windows XP guest. Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
>> > >
>> > > Who do I blame?
>> >
>> > Vbox.
>> >
>> > Make sure it's passing the USB device through in the (vbox) config for
>> > that VM .
>> >
>>
>> I had it set for USB 2.0 so tried it for USB 1.1.
>>
>> Made no difference.
>
> I just added a specific filter for the Fujitsu fi-6130, vendor code
> 0c45 and product code 1141.
> Still made no difference.

No difference how? You are telling the config to forward the USB
directly to the guest, right?

Also, it works under linux? Just to rule out bad connection (or missing
drivers, etc.)

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

Re: Who do I blame?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 12:25:44 -0400
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 by: Paul - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:25 UTC

On 6/6/2023 11:28 AM, pinnerite wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58:01 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same
>>> Windows XP guest. Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
>>>
>>> Who do I blame?
>>
>> Vbox.
>>
>> Make sure it's passing the USB device through in the (vbox) config for
>> that VM .
>>
>
> I had it set for USB 2.0 so tried it for USB 1.1.
>
> Made no difference.
>

So why did you bump it to VBox 7 ?

VirtualBox has a support matrix, and every time they
increment the release number, there are fewer Guest Windows
OS versions supported.

That does not mean "WinXP is guaranteed to break". What it
means is, when they release a new Host version, they no longer test
that their reference WinXP guest runs in it. The support
list has become so short now, it might be just Win10 and Win11.
And definitely, some of the missing items still work.

The one that was always hard for VirtualBox to keep running,
was Win2K. That's a Guest OS, that if the Host is not "tuned"
every time for Win2K, Win2K is never going to run properly.
Official Win2K support stopped some time ago, and there's no
way it would work properly today if you tried it out. What it
does, is it rails on one virtual core, even when the Guest OS is idle.

WinXP is not like that, because WinXP was a refined version of
Win2K, for the parts that were breaking. WinXP has better ACPI
support (but not by much), and also has working IOAPIC behavior
(and that could be the weak part of Win2K).

If you'd asked me for my opinion of the more modern VBox versions,
I would tell you to "stall for time" :-) As it is, I hardly ever
user the VBox on this machine, because of the bustedness. But my
V5.2 on the other machine, that's what I rely on when I need to
simulate something. And I use VMWare on this machine, but only to
run a Windows 11 Guest that I rewind after every usage. I run a
Windows 11 Guest, so I won't mess up the physical Windows 11 install.

*******

By bumping to V7, you'd want the V7 ExtPack.

Does your user account belong to "vboxusers" group ?
There's supposed to be an "addgroup" command so your
user account can run VBox. This is similar to SAMBA
needing a group membership as well.

Paul

Re: Who do I blame?

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From: Bea...@invalid.com (Big Al)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
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 by: Big Al - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:07 UTC

On 6/6/23 12:25, this is what Paul wrote:
> And I use VMWare on this machine, but only to
> run a Windows 11 Guest that I rewind after every usage. I run a
> Windows 11 Guest, so I won't mess up the physical Windows 11 install.
It's a great practice. I do it on VBox but the same thing, copy the vdi file, play with the OS and mess around, put the
copy back and you've rewound the system. Not much of a better backup/imaging tool around.
--
Linux Mint 21.1 Cinnamon 5.6.8
Al

Re: Who do I blame?

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 by: Jack Lemmon - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:41 UTC

On 06/06/2023 15:38, pinnerite wrote:
>
> Who do I blame?
>

Blame your mum for not making you independent to be able to resolve
problems without coming here and crying about it.

You need to learn to solve the problems yourself.

Did you create a backup before upgrading your system? Can you not make
use of that backup to make your system work again so that you can go to
Oracle website and see if there are problems with their latest
incarnation. It's quite simple if you think about it.

Re: Who do I blame?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 18:28:03 -0400
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 by: Paul - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 22:28 UTC

On 6/6/2023 12:05 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:28:41 +0100
>> pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:58:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-06-06, pinnerite wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same
>>>>> Windows XP guest. Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who do I blame?
>>>>
>>>> Vbox.
>>>>
>>>> Make sure it's passing the USB device through in the (vbox) config for
>>>> that VM .
>>>>
>>>
>>> I had it set for USB 2.0 so tried it for USB 1.1.
>>>
>>> Made no difference.
>>
>> I just added a specific filter for the Fujitsu fi-6130, vendor code
>> 0c45 and product code 1141.
>> Still made no difference.
>
> No difference how? You are telling the config to forward the USB
> directly to the guest, right?
>
> Also, it works under linux? Just to rule out bad connection (or missing
> drivers, etc.)
>
He is Linux Host, WinXP Guest. So he is spared any HyperV shenanigans
on the Host side. It should be a working configuration, just missing
the notion of "official" support, because of the age of the Guest.

Passthru USB is done at USB packet level, unlike some other hosting
softwares. Some hosting softwares, only support "storage" over USB,
so it's a kind of "class emulation". Whereas VirtualBox has the nice
feature of working at the packet level, and then it does not care
what kind of device is on the USB port. It can be a USB flash stick,
it can be a cut-sheet scanner, the passthru does not care.

But the trick is, you're installing a filter driver. and this
does not always work smoothly. Maybe the first time I tried to
get this working, it took three attempts at installation before
it just decided to work. It does not seem to be that bad today,
but the improvement never seemed to be an abrupt change in the
state of affairs. It's only "gradually" got better at it, working
a bit more often on the first installation attempt.

If the filter driver is working, then you see USB1.1, USB2, USB3 as
click-able options in Settings for your Guest. On WinXP you don't
click USB3, unless you have a driver to add to the Guest OS.

If the install process was more transparent (generated a log),
then you might get some idea if the ExtPack stage was fluffed.
And it's possible there is a log file for this, somewhere in there.
While the installer or the web page might still mention DKMS,
it installs much too quickly today, for it to still be using
DKMS, so something has changed. And that was the last time
I tested this for Alan.

Paul

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 by: pinnerite - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 22:32 UTC

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 15:38:54 +0100
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a chicken and egg conundrum.
>
> Until a few weeks ago i was running Linux Mint 20.3 and VirtualBox 6.1.12.
> My Windows XP guest was able to access a USB connected Fujitsu scanner.
>
> I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same Windows XP guest.
> Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
>
> Both systems had VB extensions and guest extensions added.
>
> The user in both systems was included in the vboxuser group.
>
> Who do I blame?

It is working. The solution came from the Virtualbox forum.
Bear in mind that prevously it 'just worked'.
The only steps I had not taken were to:

a) set up a filter for the USB device I was using
b) unplug it.
c) boot up XP from VBOX
d) once it came up, plug in the device.

It still worked without steps b) and d) on subsequent boot ups.

Aren't computers mysterious?

>
> --
> Mint 21.1, kernel 5.15.0-73-generic, Cinnamon 5.6.7
> running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 16GB of DRAM.

--

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 by: Mike Easter - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 22:46 UTC

pinnerite wrote:
> a) set up a filter for the USB device I was using
> b) unplug it.
> c) boot up XP from VBOX
> d) once it came up, plug in the device.
>
> It still worked without steps b) and d) on subsequent boot ups.
>
> Aren't computers mysterious?
>
The conditions under which I might have to 'replug' a USB are
'unpredictable'.

I have an old desktop which can't boot from USB natively. I don't use
it very often, but when I do, I use it w/ a Plop CD which gives me
access to a USB boot.

Somewhere along the way, the ('new') requirement became:

- unplug the usb
- turn on the machine
- boot to the CD's Plop boot screen
- *then* plug in the usb
- select the usb to boot

--
Mike Easter

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 by: stepore - Wed, 7 Jun 2023 02:16 UTC

On 6/6/23 15:32, pinnerite wrote:
> Aren't computers mysterious?

No; not one bit.

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 by: pinnerite - Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:01 UTC

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:16:23 -0700
stepore <stepore@be.here.now> wrote:

> On 6/6/23 15:32, pinnerite wrote:
> > Aren't computers mysterious?
>
> No; not one bit.
>

For those using Vbox and wishing to note the full list of steps to resolve USB issues, here is the link:

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=82639

Those who already know everything, please ignore.

:)

Alan

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 by: Big Al - Wed, 7 Jun 2023 13:44 UTC

On 6/7/23 06:01, this is what pinnerite wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:16:23 -0700
> stepore <stepore@be.here.now> wrote:
>
>> On 6/6/23 15:32, pinnerite wrote:
>>> Aren't computers mysterious?
>>
>> No; not one bit.
>>
>
> For those using Vbox and wishing to note the full list of steps to resolve USB issues, here is the link:
>
> https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=82639
>
> Those who already know everything, please ignore.
>
> :)
>
> Alan
Thanks.
--
Linux Mint 21.1 Cinnamon 5.6.8
Al

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 by: stepore - Thu, 8 Jun 2023 02:24 UTC

On 6/7/23 03:01, pinnerite wrote:
> Those who already know everything, please ignore.

Ha! I have never claimed that.
I just don't find computers at all mysterious.

Religion, dark matter, dark energy. Now those things, they're mysterious.
Religion is fake, but that's another matter. Pun fully intended. :-)

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 by: Ramos - Thu, 8 Jun 2023 04:12 UTC

On 08/06/2023 03:24, stepore wrote:
>
> Religion, dark matter, dark energy. Now those things, they're mysterious.
> Religion is fake, but that's another matter. Pun fully intended. :-)
>

Virgin birth is real!!

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65834167>

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 by: RonB - Thu, 8 Jun 2023 04:31 UTC

On 2023-06-08, stepore <stepore@be.here.now> wrote:
> On 6/7/23 03:01, pinnerite wrote:
>> Those who already know everything, please ignore.
>
> Ha! I have never claimed that.
> I just don't find computers at all mysterious.
>
> Religion, dark matter, dark energy. Now those things, they're mysterious.
> Religion is fake, but that's another matter. Pun fully intended. :-)

Your OPINION noted.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

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 by: Mark Bourne - Thu, 8 Jun 2023 20:15 UTC

pinnerite wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 15:38:54 +0100
> pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a chicken and egg conundrum.
>>
>> Until a few weeks ago i was running Linux Mint 20.3 and VirtualBox 6.1.12.
>> My Windows XP guest was able to access a USB connected Fujitsu scanner.
>>
>> I am now running Linux Mint 21.1 and VirtualBox 7.0.8 with the same Windows XP guest.
>> Now however XP cannot "find" the scanner.
>>
>> Both systems had VB extensions and guest extensions added.
>>
>> The user in both systems was included in the vboxuser group.
>>
>> Who do I blame?
>
> It is working. The solution came from the Virtualbox forum.
> Bear in mind that prevously it 'just worked'.
> The only steps I had not taken were to:
>
> a) set up a filter for the USB device I was using
> b) unplug it.
> c) boot up XP from VBOX
> d) once it came up, plug in the device.
>
> It still worked without steps b) and d) on subsequent boot ups.
>
> Aren't computers mysterious?

When you say "subsequent boot ups", is that subsequent boots of the host
or just the guest?

If it carries on working across reboots of the guest without
unplugging/plugging the device, but not after rebooting the host, that
could make sense. Something like:
* When the host first boots, the filter driver (on the host) isn't
configured to capture the device, so if it's plugged in at that point,
it gets attached to the normal driver on the host.
* Booting the XP guest configures the filter driver to capture the device.
* If the device is plugged in at this point, it gets captured by the
filter driver and passed through to the XP guest.
* Even if the XP guest is shut down and restarted, the device is still
captured by the filter driver, so continues to work in the guest without
needing to unplug/plug again.

Thanks for posting that link to the forum post, by the way. I don't
currently use USB passthrough for anything in VirtualBox, but it looks
like that link has some useful information if I ever find I need to - so
bookmarked for future reference.

--
Mark.

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 by: stepore - Fri, 9 Jun 2023 02:12 UTC

On 6/7/23 21:31, RonB wrote:

> Your OPINION noted.
>

Prove it! :)

Re: Who do I blame?

<u611p6$27dpe$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=6280&group=alt.os.linux.mint#6280

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From: ronb02NO...@gmail.com (RonB)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: Who do I blame?
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2023 05:30:14 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: RonB - Sat, 10 Jun 2023 05:30 UTC

On 2023-06-09, stepore <stepore@be.here.now> wrote:
> On 6/7/23 21:31, RonB wrote:
>
>> Your OPINION noted.
>>
>
> Prove it! :)

I can't prove your opinion. It just is.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

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