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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

SubjectAuthor
* Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
 `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
   +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?%
      |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?%
      |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?David Brooks
        |   |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |   |    |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |   |    `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris
        |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |  |      `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |  |   `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||  | |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |      +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Zaidy036
        |    |   ||  | |      |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||  | |       |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||  |      `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  |       `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Paul
        |    |   ||  |        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||  `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||   |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   || `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||   ||  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     ||`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | ||`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Joel
        |    |   ||     || | |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?J. P. Gilliver (John)
        |    |   ||     || | |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     || | | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  +* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  |+- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    |   ||     || | |  | +- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | |  | `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     || | |  `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || | `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     || `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   ||     |+* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Bill
        |    |   ||     |`- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   ||     `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        |    |   |`* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Ken Blake
        |    |   `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?rabidR04CH
        |    `* Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Commander Kinsey
        `- Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?Chris

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Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<dre78hpnp92int2vtvlv7mkdfsks6t20i0@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62687&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62687

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 08:19:25 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:19 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>one installed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Similarly, I used to always have 3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>haven't had any.
>>>>
>>>>The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>
>>>I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>
>>That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>
>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>
>>
>>We're all different.
>>
>>>I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>people kept theirs longer,
>>
>>Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>
>>Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>
>A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>so for me the decision was an easy one.

OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
do. My current computer has a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<8MQgK.48059$JSxf.20409@fx11.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62696&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62696

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
References: <jcpt7h1d9mbt81mopjthdg3jm8cvt76g18@4ax.com>
<kaEfK.4219$i7Ab.490@fx05.iad> <qeEfK.19157$JSxf.13298@fx11.iad>
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<rs628hl28rl5tple7dg3poag2pdlq9pibt@4ax.com>
<jeclumFdnfeU1@mid.individual.net>
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From: rab...@r04.ch (rabidR04CH)
In-Reply-To: <dre78hpnp92int2vtvlv7mkdfsks6t20i0@4ax.com>
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Organization: blocknews - www.blocknews.net
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400
X-Received-Bytes: 5685
 by: rabidR04CH - Tue, 17 May 2022 17:16 UTC

On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have 3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>
>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> We're all different.
>>>
>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>
>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>
>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>
>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>
> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
> do. My current computer has a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.

I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<6ha88h9aj2mjlo7qg0rneirs9ago9gp699@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62699&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62699

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Message-ID: <6ha88h9aj2mjlo7qg0rneirs9ago9gp699@4ax.com>
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 by: Char Jackson - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:06 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

>On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have 3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>
>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We're all different.
>>>>
>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>
>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>
>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>
>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>
>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>> do. My current computer has a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>
>I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.

I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<fka88hl6mi401vg4hf3donsscqa29ik9hq@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62700&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62700

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Message-ID: <fka88hl6mi401vg4hf3donsscqa29ik9hq@4ax.com>
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 by: Char Jackson - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:12 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:54:53 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:35:42 -0400
>rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>> When we had this town house built, we didn't ask for it but they ran
>> CAT5e Ethernet cables through the walls to end in six different areas
>> of the house. They didn't have ports but the cables were there so
>> when I found out, I completed the cables myself and there are now six
>> very reliable Ethernet entries anyone can use. Of course, she and I
>> both prefer the convenience of wireless.
>
>So you have six Ethernet sockets in various areas in the house? How
>on earth do you keep track of the connections possible in such a
>layout? Labels maybe.

I've added multiple Ethernet jacks to each of my last 3 homes. I didn't
know there was a possibility for confusion. I just 'home run' all of the
cables back to a single convenient spot, preferably in my office, but
two houses ago my office wasn't practical so I pulled the cables to the
furnace/laundry room in the basement. Once the cables have been pulled
and properly terminated, simply connecting an 8-port switch at the
common point lights everything up.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<jMXgK.12473$C7G6.3427@fx46.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62702&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62702

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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From: rab...@r04.ch (rabidR04CH)
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 by: rabidR04CH - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:14 UTC

On 2022-05-17 7:12 p.m., Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:54:53 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:35:42 -0400
>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> When we had this town house built, we didn't ask for it but they ran
>>> CAT5e Ethernet cables through the walls to end in six different areas
>>> of the house. They didn't have ports but the cables were there so
>>> when I found out, I completed the cables myself and there are now six
>>> very reliable Ethernet entries anyone can use. Of course, she and I
>>> both prefer the convenience of wireless.
>>
>> So you have six Ethernet sockets in various areas in the house? How
>> on earth do you keep track of the connections possible in such a
>> layout? Labels maybe.
>
> I've added multiple Ethernet jacks to each of my last 3 homes. I didn't
> know there was a possibility for confusion. I just 'home run' all of the
> cables back to a single convenient spot, preferably in my office, but
> two houses ago my office wasn't practical so I pulled the cables to the
> furnace/laundry room in the basement. Once the cables have been pulled
> and properly terminated, simply connecting an 8-port switch at the
> common point lights everything up.

I seem to have missed the original message from mechanic. When I first
made the connectors, I had to test them and didn't actually know where
any of the cables led to. In a tall town house like mine, that results
in me running up to three flights of stairs and testing to see if
there's a signal every time I plug in a cable. When I was able to
determine which cable went where, I put cheap labels (basically just
green painter's tape) around the cables with a word to tell me where it
went (Mezz for Mezzanine, Living for Living Room and so on).

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<EQYgK.14444$hAre.1394@fx08.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62705&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62705

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 by: Bill - Wed, 18 May 2022 02:27 UTC

On 5/17/2022 7:06 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have 3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We're all different.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>>
>>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>>
>>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>>
>>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>>> do. My current computer has a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>>
>> I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>> them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.
>
> I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
> any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.
>

Good luck finding a nice case with room for a DVD/CD Drive these days.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t61o98$2un$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62706&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62706

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 23:13:45 -0400
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Paul - Wed, 18 May 2022 03:13 UTC

On 5/17/2022 9:14 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
> On 2022-05-17 7:12 p.m., Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:54:53 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:35:42 -0400
>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When we had this town house built, we didn't ask for it but they ran
>>>> CAT5e Ethernet cables through the walls to end in six different areas
>>>> of the house. They didn't have ports but the cables were there so
>>>> when I found out, I completed the cables myself and there are now six
>>>> very reliable Ethernet entries anyone can use. Of course, she and I
>>>> both prefer the convenience of wireless.
>>>
>>> So you have six Ethernet sockets in various areas in the house? How
>>> on earth do you keep track of the connections possible in such a
>>> layout? Labels maybe.
>>
>> I've added multiple Ethernet jacks to each of my last 3 homes. I didn't
>> know there was a possibility for confusion. I just 'home run' all of the
>> cables back to a single convenient spot, preferably in my office, but
>> two houses ago my office wasn't practical so I pulled the cables to the
>> furnace/laundry room in the basement. Once the cables have been pulled
>> and properly terminated, simply connecting an 8-port switch at the
>> common point lights everything up.
>
> I seem to have missed the original message from mechanic. When I first made the connectors, I had to test them and didn't actually know where any of the cables led to. In a tall town house like mine, that results in me running up to three flights of stairs and testing to see if there's a signal every time I plug in a cable. When I was able to determine which cable went where, I put cheap labels (basically just green painter's tape) around the cables with a word to tell me where it went (Mezz for Mezzanine, Living for Living Room and so on).
>

Normally, there's some topology to the wiring plan.

A star (like Char describes, suited to use with an 8-port switch).

A mesh (maybe for someone too cheap to buy a switch :-) )
An electrician will not volunteer to do a mesh.

Perhaps a ring topology. Room1 to Room2. Room2 to Room3. Room3 to Room1.
Do network sharing from a master machine. Requires lots of machines
to remain running.

A few wires run vertically in a tall building, could be
used to connect Access Points from the broadband modem
in the basement.

But someone has to have a rationale and a plan, to be
running wires. Electricians want their wires to follow
the ribs of the building, in a way that is easy to do
and makes sense. If the user asks to "make spaghetti",
the electrician is going to give the customer the
"evil eye".

Paul

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t61pvn$vus$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=62707&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#62707

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 23:42:47 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 18 May 2022 03:42 UTC

On 5/17/2022 10:27 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 7:06 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers.  "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer.  It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have  3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're all different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>>>
>>>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>>>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>>>
>>>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>>>> do. My current computer has  a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>>>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>>>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>>>
>>> I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>>> them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.
>>
>> I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
>> any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.
>>
>
> Good luck finding a nice case with room for a DVD/CD Drive these days.

You can put a few optical drives in this.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053

I like the huge fan in the door. Maybe that
will be suitable for the next generation
of "600W" video cards. You know, the video cards
that cost as much as a motorcycle.

Paul

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<_D_gK.61469$qMI1.2231@fx96.iad>

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From: nonegi...@att.net (Bill)
In-Reply-To: <t61pvn$vus$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Bill - Wed, 18 May 2022 04:30 UTC

On 5/17/2022 11:42 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 10:27 PM, Bill wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 7:06 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake
>>>>>>>> <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
>>>>>>>>> <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel
>>>>>>>>>>> <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "going out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> money (at
>>>>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer.  It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need
>>>>>>>>>>> mine to
>>>>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are
>>>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I
>>>>>>>>>>> might need
>>>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those
>>>>>>>>>>> (you
>>>>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had
>>>>>>>>>>> a DVD
>>>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities
>>>>>>>>>> that I use
>>>>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will
>>>>>>>>>> always have
>>>>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have  3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old
>>>>>>>>> diskettes and
>>>>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without
>>>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent
>>>>>>>>> computers
>>>>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these
>>>>>>>>> days, but
>>>>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years
>>>>>>>> ago. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We're all different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard
>>>>>> drive,
>>>>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>>>>> do. My current computer has  a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>>>>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>>>>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>>>>
>>>> I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>>>> them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.
>>>
>>> I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
>>> any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.
>>>
>>
>> Good luck finding a nice case with room for a DVD/CD Drive these days.
>
> You can put a few optical drives in this.
>
> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053
>
> I like the huge fan in the door. Maybe that
> will be suitable for the next generation
> of "600W" video cards. You know, the video cards
> that cost as much as a motorcycle.
>
>    Paul
>


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<rs098h16ojmdr8p1uojd4vvr87auin9q7b@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Char Jackson - Wed, 18 May 2022 05:30 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 23:13:45 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 5/17/2022 9:14 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-17 7:12 p.m., Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:54:53 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:35:42 -0400
>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When we had this town house built, we didn't ask for it but they ran
>>>>> CAT5e Ethernet cables through the walls to end in six different areas
>>>>> of the house. They didn't have ports but the cables were there so
>>>>> when I found out, I completed the cables myself and there are now six
>>>>> very reliable Ethernet entries anyone can use. Of course, she and I
>>>>> both prefer the convenience of wireless.
>>>>
>>>> So you have six Ethernet sockets in various areas in the house? How
>>>> on earth do you keep track of the connections possible in such a
>>>> layout? Labels maybe.
>>>
>>> I've added multiple Ethernet jacks to each of my last 3 homes. I didn't
>>> know there was a possibility for confusion. I just 'home run' all of the
>>> cables back to a single convenient spot, preferably in my office, but
>>> two houses ago my office wasn't practical so I pulled the cables to the
>>> furnace/laundry room in the basement. Once the cables have been pulled
>>> and properly terminated, simply connecting an 8-port switch at the
>>> common point lights everything up.
>>
>> I seem to have missed the original message from mechanic. When I first made the connectors, I had to test them and didn't actually know where any of the cables led to. In a tall town house like mine, that results in me running up to three flights of stairs and testing to see if there's a signal every time I plug in a cable. When I was able to determine which cable went where, I put cheap labels (basically just green painter's tape) around the cables with a word to tell me where it went (Mezz for Mezzanine, Living for Living Room and so on).
>>
>
>Normally, there's some topology to the wiring plan.
>
>A star (like Char describes, suited to use with an 8-port switch).
>
>A mesh (maybe for someone too cheap to buy a switch :-) )
> An electrician will not volunteer to do a mesh.
>
>Perhaps a ring topology. Room1 to Room2. Room2 to Room3. Room3 to Room1.
>Do network sharing from a master machine. Requires lots of machines
>to remain running.
>
>A few wires run vertically in a tall building, could be
>used to connect Access Points from the broadband modem
>in the basement.
>
>But someone has to have a rationale and a plan, to be
>running wires. Electricians want their wires to follow
>the ribs of the building, in a way that is easy to do
>and makes sense. If the user asks to "make spaghetti",
>the electrician is going to give the customer the
>"evil eye".

An electrician to pull Ethernet cables? I don't think they'd take a job
like that, at least not that I've heard of. There are AV specialists or
security folks who'll run cables, but it's not a difficult task (in my
limited experience) so I just do it myself.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t6228i$r0e$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Paul - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:04 UTC

On 5/18/2022 12:30 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 11:42 PM, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 10:27 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2022 7:06 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer.  It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have  3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>>>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We're all different.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>>>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>>>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>>>>>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>>>>>> do. My current computer has  a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>>>>>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>>>>>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>>>>> them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.
>>>>
>>>> I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
>>>> any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good luck finding a nice case with room for a DVD/CD Drive these days.
>>
>> You can put a few optical drives in this.
>>
>> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053
>>
>> I like the huge fan in the door. Maybe that
>> will be suitable for the next generation
>> of "600W" video cards. You know, the video cards
>> that cost as much as a motorcycle.
>>
>>     Paul
>>
>
> It has a 230mm front fan. I didn't know they made them that big.
> I am hoping that there will be a "video card glut!"--it could happen, maybe. Most people only use one card at a time...

The scalpers will eventually scale back and stop attacking everything.

There might still be scalping of cards known to be available
in limited quantity. If a 4090 were to come out this minute,
the scalpers would buy all of them. Even though not planning
on selling to coin miners particularly. They would sell them
to impatient gamers and make $1000 profit off each.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t624bu$7hf$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 02:39:58 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:39 UTC

On 5/18/2022 1:30 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

>
> An electrician to pull Ethernet cables? I don't think they'd take a job
> like that, at least not that I've heard of. There are AV specialists or
> security folks who'll run cables, but it's not a difficult task (in my
> limited experience) so I just do it myself.

I was thinking along the line of house construction, and
asking an electrician to install Ethernet at the same time
as the rest of the electrical panel and wiring.

Even popping in some conduit for the future would be
better than nothing. But you still need a plan.

Paul

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<t625r4$ghc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: jbb...@notatt.com (Jeff Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Jeff Barnett - Wed, 18 May 2022 07:05 UTC

On 5/18/2022 12:39 AM, Paul wrote:
> On 5/18/2022 1:30 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>
>>
>> An electrician to pull Ethernet cables? I don't think they'd take a job
>> like that, at least not that I've heard of. There are AV specialists or
>> security folks who'll run cables, but it's not a difficult task (in my
>> limited experience) so I just do it myself.
>
> I was thinking along the line of house construction, and
> asking an electrician to install Ethernet at the same time
> as the rest of the electrical panel and wiring.
>
> Even popping in some conduit for the future would be
> better than nothing. But you still need a plan.
Some electricians are now doing "LAN" cabling. They have skills to break
into walls as necessary and know the secret incantations of mucking
about in attics covered with itch insulation and crawl spaces covered
with god knows what. Running Ethernet is easy enough unless you need odd
cable lengths that require soldering. Similarly with coax - putting
connectors on cables is easy the 20th time you do it. The first time
usually doesn't go so well. Another advantage of using an electrician
that is practiced in this stuff (assuming you want a neat installation)
is they are MUCH less likely to mess up other wiring such as your
internal power cables. And if they do make a mess, they know better than
most of us how to clean up after themselves.
--
Jeff Barnett

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: rabidR04CH - Wed, 18 May 2022 14:40 UTC

On 2022-05-17 11:13 p.m., Paul wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 9:14 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-17 7:12 p.m., Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:54:53 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:35:42 -0400
>>>> rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When we had this town house built, we didn't ask for it but they ran
>>>>> CAT5e Ethernet cables through the walls to end in six different areas
>>>>> of the house. They didn't have ports but the cables were there so
>>>>> when I found out, I completed the cables myself and there are now six
>>>>> very reliable Ethernet entries anyone can use. Of course, she and I
>>>>> both prefer the convenience of wireless.
>>>>
>>>> So you have six Ethernet sockets in various areas in the house? How
>>>> on earth do you keep track of the connections possible in such a
>>>> layout? Labels maybe.
>>>
>>> I've added multiple Ethernet jacks to each of my last 3 homes. I didn't
>>> know there was a possibility for confusion. I just 'home run' all of the
>>> cables back to a single convenient spot, preferably in my office, but
>>> two houses ago my office wasn't practical so I pulled the cables to the
>>> furnace/laundry room in the basement. Once the cables have been pulled
>>> and properly terminated, simply connecting an 8-port switch at the
>>> common point lights everything up.
>>
>> I seem to have missed the original message from mechanic. When I first
>> made the connectors, I had to test them and didn't actually know where
>> any of the cables led to. In a tall town house like mine, that results
>> in me running up to three flights of stairs and testing to see if
>> there's a signal every time I plug in a cable. When I was able to
>> determine which cable went where, I put cheap labels (basically just
>> green painter's tape) around the cables with a word to tell me where
>> it went (Mezz for Mezzanine, Living for Living Room and so on).
>>
>
> Normally, there's some topology to the wiring plan.
>
> A star (like Char describes, suited to use with an 8-port switch).
>
> A mesh (maybe for someone too cheap to buy a switch :-) )
>    An electrician will not volunteer to do a mesh.
>
> Perhaps a ring topology. Room1 to Room2. Room2 to Room3. Room3 to Room1.
> Do network sharing from a master machine. Requires lots of machines
> to remain running.
>
> A few wires run vertically in a tall building, could be
> used to connect Access Points from the broadband modem
> in the basement.
>
> But someone has to have a rationale and a plan, to be
> running wires. Electricians want their wires to follow
> the ribs of the building, in a way that is easy to do
> and makes sense. If the user asks to "make spaghetti",
> the electrician is going to give the customer the
> "evil eye".

The cables in this town house were basically installed while the house
was being built so it was only logical that they would go from bottom to
top. All of them were set up to end in the garage where the cable and
telephone entrances are from the outside and one wire goes to the
basement, one to the living room, one to each bedroom (3) and one to the
upstairs mezzanine. The set-up makes sense and allowed me to create a
decent extension to the wireless signal when the original router our ISP
provided us showed that its coverage was awful.

--
rabidR04CH
Encrypt. Avoid social media. Stay sane.
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Windows 11
https://retalk.com/invite/rabidR04CH

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<9k5a8h9kmhmcft5ur25ebbc8h2eelt6sib@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 08:54:38 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 18 May 2022 15:54 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:06:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

>On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have 3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We're all different.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>>
>>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>>
>>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>>
>>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>>> do. My current computer has a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>>
>>I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>>them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.
>
>I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
>any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.

Internal drives work best for everyone, unless they are being used for
backup.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 18 May 2022 15:57 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 22:27:47 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

>Good luck finding a nice case with room for a DVD/CD Drive these days.

???? There are many-- for example, mine: a Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full
Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: winston...@gmail.com (...winston)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: ...winston - Wed, 18 May 2022 17:29 UTC

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:06:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
>> any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.
>
>
> Internal drives work best for everyone, unless they are being used for
> backup.
>
Most Internal and External drives deploy the same mechanism,
electronics, and optional sizes.

The only practical difference for most is the higher transfer rate for
internal since externals usually involve an interface change(SATA to USB
connection) which also introduces some additional latency.

Reliability wise, not much difference even though externals have been
known to have a higher failure rate, not necessarily from design but two
factors - location(placed on a desk and exposed to higher level of
possible user caused damage and handling) and the SATA to USB
converter(often misinterpreted as drive failure).

From a backup perspective - nothing wrong with using one or both
types(redundant) - backup to internal and/or both.
- if the pc fails for some reason, neither internal or external are
available yet both can still provide a means for backup restoration to
the same or another device.

The only real benefit for externals is a modest or perceived increase in
data security, portability(rarely done in single or dual pc consumer
environment), and no need for internal installation.

With prices reasonably low, no reliability differences it's easy to make
a case for redundancy and flexibility - backup to a spare internal and
external.
...but as Char noted, favoring internal over not having external
drives is more than adequate for consumers not matter what anyone else
may say.

My personal approach.
Internal 2 SSDs - Operating system and software on one(256 GB, 75 GB
used), everything else on the other SSD(1TB, 350 GB used). One spare
internal 4TB SATA and a 4TB WD Passport USB-C external.
- with Acronis 2020 and Macrium, in less than 30 minutes, can
backup/image the o/s drive to both internal and external and routinely
once a month backup everything else to both internal and external via a
script without active hour pc use concern.

Since forever(well, over 35 yrs) - Apple and Windows devices one single
hard drive failure - 28 yrs ago -Windows 95 era(HP computer with a
Connor HD[Seagate product])

--
....winston

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Char Jackson - Wed, 18 May 2022 18:02 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 02:39:58 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 5/18/2022 1:30 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>
>>
>> An electrician to pull Ethernet cables? I don't think they'd take a job
>> like that, at least not that I've heard of. There are AV specialists or
>> security folks who'll run cables, but it's not a difficult task (in my
>> limited experience) so I just do it myself.
>
>I was thinking along the line of house construction, and
>asking an electrician to install Ethernet at the same time
>as the rest of the electrical panel and wiring.

The problem is that it's just the wrong trade. Electricians only want to
do electrical work, and this isn't that. When it comes to new home
construction, stepping outside of your trade, even if you had the best
intentions, can be a problem when it comes to inspections and approvals.

When my current house was being built in 2019, I saw that coax cable was
on the punch list. I wanted to know what kind of coax was going to be
installed and who was going to do it. I was worried that it might be the
electricians, which would be a problem because they don't normally do
that kind of work. They probably aren't aware that you destroy the
electrical characteristics of the coax if you bend it too sharply or if
you staple it too tightly to a stud, for example.

It turned out that the work was going to be done by the local cable
company and they were going to use what they always use for new home
construction, which they wouldn't tell me what it was. I was worried
that it would be RG58 or RG59, since this is a backwoods area and I
figured they might not have heard that those two went out of favor back
in the 1980's.

So they did install RG6, which was good, but it's RG6 dual shield with
copper clad steel center conductor. That's trash, compared to RG6 quad
shield with solid copper center conductor. I had most of a 1000 ft roll
of the good stuff available and offered to donate it, free of charge, if
they'd install it in my house. They declined. Next, I asked for Ethernet
cable or fiber optic cable or at least conduit, but they said no to all
of those. At least no one bothered to install twisted pair phone cable,
so I guess that memo made its way out here.

>Even popping in some conduit for the future would be
>better than nothing. But you still need a plan.

A plan goes a long way.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Char Jackson - Wed, 18 May 2022 18:16 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 01:05:00 -0600, Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> wrote:

>On 5/18/2022 12:39 AM, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/18/2022 1:30 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> An electrician to pull Ethernet cables? I don't think they'd take a job
>>> like that, at least not that I've heard of. There are AV specialists or
>>> security folks who'll run cables, but it's not a difficult task (in my
>>> limited experience) so I just do it myself.
>>
>> I was thinking along the line of house construction, and
>> asking an electrician to install Ethernet at the same time
>> as the rest of the electrical panel and wiring.
>>
>> Even popping in some conduit for the future would be
>> better than nothing. But you still need a plan.
>Some electricians are now doing "LAN" cabling.

That would scare me, since they don't have the formal training to do
that. That puts them in with the handyman category, IMO.

>They have skills to break
>into walls as necessary and know the secret incantations of mucking
>about in attics covered with itch insulation and crawl spaces covered
>with god knows what.

All of that is straightforward. Most homeowners should know how to make
a hole in drywall and patch it, and there's nothing special about
attics, basements, and crawlspaces.

>Running Ethernet is easy enough unless you need odd
>cable lengths that require soldering.

There's no soldering when it comes to Ethernet. That's not even an
option. If you're doing custom lengths, you start with a bulk roll, pull
off what you need, pull it through the walls, etc., and finally you
terminate the ends by *crimping* the proper connector. Tools and
supplies are commonly available, including testers that tell you that
you've got all of the cable pairs matched up properly.

>Similarly with coax - putting
>connectors on cables is easy the 20th time you do it. The first time
>usually doesn't go so well.

Where I've seen people get into trouble is when they try to use twist-on
connectors, or crimp connectors without the proper crimp tool. All of
that is garbage, though. For the past 20+ years only compression style
coax connectors should be used. Besides being better than twist and
crimp in every way, they are pretty foolproof.

>Another advantage of using an electrician
>that is practiced in this stuff (assuming you want a neat installation)
>is they are MUCH less likely to mess up other wiring such as your
>internal power cables. And if they do make a mess, they know better than
>most of us how to clean up after themselves.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that, either. That hasn't been my experience
at all.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 19:55:52 +0100
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 18 May 2022 18:55 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 02:04:01, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 5/18/2022 12:30 AM, Bill wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 11:42 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2022 10:27 PM, Bill wrote:
[BIIG snip!]
>>>> Good luck finding a nice case with room for a DVD/CD Drive these days.
>>>
>>> You can put a few optical drives in this.
>>>
>>> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053

(I haven't looked at that one, but:) Watch out. My friend wanted a card
reader; since I had the manual for her case, and could see that the
internal metalwork had space for three optical-size drives (i. e. "5¼"
size"), I got her one that would fit in one of those - I thought it
would look neater and so on, than having an external one. But when I
came to fit it, the fancy plastic front had only one slot in it (which
was already occupied by the optical drive, which she wanted). No, not
even any sections to knock out. The top space was even obscured by the
45 degree or so sloping panel with the power and reset buttons and a
couple of USB slots. Seemed very silly to me to make such a chassis and
then block it!
[]
>The nice thing about hard drives, is when Windows is scanning,
>scanning, scanning, I don't have to worry about wear on writes.
>They can knock themselves out with the scanning. When the
>scanning stops, I'll put the NVMe back :-)
>
> Paul
>
Yes, but in Windows they never stop ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

he was eventually struck off by the BMA in 1968 for not knowing his gluteus
maximus from his humerus.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 15:30:05 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 18 May 2022 19:30 UTC

On 5/18/2022 11:54 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:06:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:16:50 -0400, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-17 11:19 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:40:17 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:35 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:32:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:52:55 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-15 10:33 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:23:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2022 10:55 PM, rabidR04CH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-13 10:12 p.m., Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From this I conclude that $23 for a USB DVD Drive is a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment for a new computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How the heck did you come to that conclusion based on what I said?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will enjoy using MS Office and other apps that I have on DVD, rather
>>>>>>>>>>>> then succumbing to the subscription model which appears to be being
>>>>>>>>>>>> pushed out next. You may have noticed that DVD's have been "going out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> style", and aren't present on many prebuilt computers. "$23" just
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be the price of the USB DVD drive that is on my Amazon wish
>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To Bill: Why is it on your wish list? $23 isn't a lot of money (at
>>>>>>>>>> least not to most people). Why not just buy and install it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>>>>>>>>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>>>>>>>>>> anything, anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's a giant overstatement, as far as I'm concerned. I need mine to
>>>>>>>>>> read the many CDs and DVDs I still have, some of which are need to
>>>>>>>>>> reinstall a program, should it be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Granted, I don't use mine often, but I never know when I might need
>>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also granted that we're not all the same, and there are those (you
>>>>>>>>>> apparently, for example) who don't need it. But it's not true that
>>>>>>>>>> nobody needs one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When my new (Oct 2021) computer was built, I made sure it had a DVD
>>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Likewise , I don't use it often but still have some utilities that I use
>>>>>>>>> and a a few old programs that I access so for $25.00 I will always have
>>>>>>>>> one installed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Similarly, I used to always have 3.5" and 5.25" diskette drives
>>>>>>>> installed on the theory that I still had a bunch of old diskettes and
>>>>>>>> I might need one some day. After several years went by without ever
>>>>>>>> using either one, I stopped having them, and all my recent computers
>>>>>>>> haven't had any.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The same will probably be true of DVD/CD drives one of these days, but
>>>>>>>> as far as I'm concerned, we're not there yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't had an optical drive installed since about 2008 but I still
>>>>>>> have one in a drawer, in case I ever need it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's just as good as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't needed it, so I
>>>>>>> guess as far as I'm concerned we got there over a dozen years ago. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're all different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I pulled out my floppy drives around 1998/1999 and I'm guessing some
>>>>>>> people kept theirs longer,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much longer (ten or 15 years longer) for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did you pull them out? I can understand not having one in a new
>>>>>> computer, but how does it hurt to leave it there, even if unused?
>>>>>
>>>>> A floppy drive uses a drive bay that can be better used by a hard drive,
>>>>> so for me the decision was an easy one.
>>>>
>>>> OK, understood. I guess I never think about having as many HDs as you
>>>> do. My current computer has a big case. It has one NVMe drive and two
>>>> HDs, and I think I have room for two more NVMEs, one SSD, and three
>>>> more HDs. It's highly unlikely that I will ever use any of that space.
>>>
>>> I'm with you. I don't mind having the extra drives but I'd prefer for
>>> them to be external. I only really need one internal SSD.
>>
>> I have successfully avoided the need for external drives so far. With
>> any luck, that will hold. Internal works best for me.
>
>
> Internal drives work best for everyone, unless they are being used for
> backup.
>

If you have a side-mount drive bay, internals are easy to remove
and replace. The drive bays even come with trays, so they slide
into the bay easily.

This holds four internal drives. The top position has
poor cooling, leaving three useful levels to slide the
trays in. (If the drives went all the way to the bottom
of that area, that's too hard on the SATA connectors
and cabling.)

https://img.hexus.net/v2/cases/antec/sonata3/4.3.s.jpg

There is a front mount 5.25 at the top, where I keep
the DVD writer.

Based on the usefulness of that feature, if I needed to
buy another case, I'd at least want some side-mount
storage spots for drives.

For the machine sitting next to me, I made my own
drive bay. Out of four threaded rods, and bits of wood.
That setup holds three drives, and generally for work
here, I get by with three drive spots. By using threaded
rods, you can adjust the spacing between drives as you
like. Up to two 80mm fans can be strapped to the
side of the stack for cooling.

Because SMART works on all those internals, I can tell
quickly whether a drive has developed a problem or not.

They also make purpose built slide-in drive systems,
complete with a key to lock the drive in place. But you
would not be likely to find such items as stock in 2022.

Paul

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

<op.1mejdkl7mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 19 May 2022 06:09 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:21:59 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>> I deliberately bought a case with no spaces for optical drives,
>>> leaving my BD-RE in my old computer. It's just not needed for
>>> anything, anymore.
>>
>> Except fixing the fucked OS. And passing several GB to a friend.
>
> I installed Win10 from a USB drive, and could use that for physical
> media to give files to someone else.

Show me where you can buy a large USB drive that isn't a fake. They seem to be so easy to reprogram.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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Subject: Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 19 May 2022 06:09 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:33:50 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 22:32:55 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Nearly everything important is encrypted before it even reaches the
>>>>> WiFi chip.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's mostly what comes "out" of your wifi chip that you have to
>>>> worry about... But you're the "pro". ; )
>>>
>>> How is anyone going to decrypt it, to get anything of value out of it?
>>> How worried about that do I need to be, in a peaceful neighborhood?
>>
>> Me driving past your house with a laptop.
>
> Laughable.

Where else would I download porn?

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 19 May 2022 06:10 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:35:36 +0100, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Wifi is for phones.
>>>
>>> I have just as stable a connection over WiFi as I would with a wire.
>>
>> ROTFPMSL! The day Wifi works reliably is the day hell freezes over (I think that's one of those god phrases you morons like). Most routers can't even select an unused channel by themselves! I went to fix a neighbour's wireless and found her and both next door neighbours were all on channel 1!
>
> Maybe your experience is such, the router we have is fine.

How close are you to any other router?

>>> And I can't run a wire here, anyway.
>>
>> Are you that incompetant? Running a wire has to be one of life's easiest things to do.
>
> That isn't the issue.

Then state what is, duh.

>>> WiFi is what I've used for many years, going back to before my mom
>>
>> Mum. Mother isn't pronounced like moth.
>>
>>> and I moved from the old neighborhood.
>>
>> The ghetto?
>
> No.

Where then? This is like getting blood out of a stone.

Re: Two GPUs, one way more power efficient? How?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 19 May 2022 06:33 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 12:51:23 +0100, rabidR04CH <rabid@r04.ch> wrote:

> On 2022-05-15 5:32 p.m., Joel wrote:
>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I have just as stable a connection over WiFi as I would with a wire.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Stable" maybe, depending on what you mean by that, but arguably not as
>>>>> "secure".
>>>>
>>>> Nearly everything important is encrypted before it even reaches the
>>>> WiFi chip.
>>>
>>> I think it's mostly what comes "out" of your wifi chip that you have to
>>> worry about... But you're the "pro". ; )
>>
>>
>> How is anyone going to decrypt it, to get anything of value out of it?
>> How worried about that do I need to be, in a peaceful neighborhood?
>
> Very. The criminals generally target the unsuspecting.

Like my idiot neighbour who left his boot (trunk if you're a fucked up yank who can't speak English) open with expensive golf clubs in it. They disappeared. Nice street, shame about the council houses 5 minutes walk away. Or probably 2 minutes leg it for a chav.

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