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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

SubjectAuthor
* Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Andy Burnelli
+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &Andy Burns
|+- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?YK
|`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
| `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
|  +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &Chris
|  |+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?dan
|  ||`- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
|  |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
|  | +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Gronk
|  | |`- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
|  | `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
|  |  +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &Andy Burns
|  |  |`- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
|  |  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
|  |   `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
|  |    `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
|  |     `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
|  `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?RonTheGuy
`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 |+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &Sam Hill
 |||+- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?CDB
 |||+- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 |||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Hiram T Schwantz
 ||| `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?J.B. Wood
 ||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 || +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Heron
 || |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 || | `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?allen
 || |  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 || |   `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?allen
 || |    `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 || `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||  +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Thomas
 ||  |`- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||   +- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?John Robertson
 ||   `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||    +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?mike
 ||    |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||    | `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?wolfgang kern
 ||    |  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||    |   `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?John
 ||    `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||     `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||      +- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Rudolph Rhein
 ||      `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||       `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||        `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         |+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||+- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?nospam
 ||         ||+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         |||+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||||+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         |||||+- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &jjb
 ||         |||||`- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?nospam
 ||         |||| `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         |||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         ||| `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         |||  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         |||   `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         ||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         || `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &Andy Burns
 ||         ||   +- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||   `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         |+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?nospam
 ||         ||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         || +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Ken Blake
 ||         || |`- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &...winston
 ||         || `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?nospam
 ||         ||  +- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||  `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         |+* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxAdam H. Kerman
 ||         ||`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         || +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?RJH
 ||         || |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         || | `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         || `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Adam H. Kerman
 ||         ||  `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||         ||   `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Adam H. Kerman
 ||         |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         | `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||         |  `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||         `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||          +- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 ||          `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||           `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 ||            `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 ||             `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?R.Wieser
 |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on FirefoxChris
 | +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?FromTheRafters
 | |+- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Adam H. Kerman
 | |`* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &Andy Burns
 | | +- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?JAB
 | | `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Frank Slootweg
 | +* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Algernon Goss-Custard
 | `* Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &The Real Bev
 `- Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?Jerry

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Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6j0b0.eps.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: thi...@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: 24 May 2022 14:15:35 GMT
Organization: NOYB
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Message-ID: <t6j0b0.eps.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
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X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: Frank Slootweg - Tue, 24 May 2022 14:15 UTC

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Algernon Goss-Custard <Ben@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> posted
> > [...]
> >>>> Try here
> >>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-gmail
> >>>
> >>> That page exemplifies precisely what TRB means. It explicitly says that
> >>> oAuth is required as of May 30, 2022, whereas other pages (including
> >>> some from Google) do not say that, they say or imply that app passwords
> >>> will continue to work with POP3.
> >>
> >> I don't see how. Google explicitly says app passwords are disappearing. It
> >> doesn't matter whether it's POP or IMAP.
> >
> > Where does Google say app passwords are disappearing? I haven't gotten
> > any such notification and haven't seen such a reference. (Have you
> > gotton any such notification from Google, you being in Europe and all
> > that?)
>
> Turns out I was wrong.

Yeah, I saw Andy Burns' corrections. (That) Case closed.

> > It would be rather stupid for Google to remove the App Password
> > functionality, because it breaks 'old' (read non-OAuth2) clients for no
> > good reason.
>
> Other than better security?

Whether OAuth2's security is 'better' is - quite - debatable, but
anyway, 'better' security should be optional/an_alternative, not the
only game in town. Compatibility and all that.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6j1td.bv4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: thi...@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: 24 May 2022 14:42:32 GMT
Organization: NOYB
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X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 220524-2, 5/24/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: Frank Slootweg - Tue, 24 May 2022 14:42 UTC

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 05/23/2022 01:02 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> > The Real Bev wrote:
[...]
> >> (b) might or might not require an IMAP account
> >
> > old thunderbirds support IMAP+oAuth
> > newer thunderbirds also support POP+oAuth
> >
> >> which I don't want; and (c) might require sending text messages to
> >> my phone each time I want to check my email or start Thunderbird or
> >> SOMETHING
> >
> > neither oAuth or app-passwords will require text messages sent to anything
> > every time you want to read email.
>
> We'll see. I've seen no authoritative statement to that effect, and
> some indications that text messaging is essential to the process.

As you want to keep your old Thunderbird and want to use POP3, OAuth2
is not an option.

That leaves (Google) App Passwords. "text messaging", i.e. SMS, is one
of the options for 2-Step Verification, which is needed to create App
Passwords. There are several other options, just look in the 2-Step
Verification part of the Security section of your Google Account. But
even if you *do* select the SMS option, only *one single* SMS message is
required if you tick the "Don't ask again on this computer." box.

FYI, I've been using App Passwords with an old non-OAuth2 (for POP3)
Thunderbird version and POP3 for a little over three years. No dramas
whatsoever.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6irj2$q91$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Jer...@JerryThinks.com (Jerry)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 07:54:49 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Jerry - Tue, 24 May 2022 14:54 UTC

On 24 May 2022 14:15:35 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>> Other than better security?
>
> Whether OAuth2's security is 'better' is - quite - debatable, but
> anyway, 'better' security should be optional/an_alternative, not the
> only game in town. Compatibility and all that.

It seems some of us are confused, and I'm similarly confused.
If we don't want to use 2fa then we have to go with oauth, is that right?
Do Firefox & Thunderbird both run oauth to Google's June 1st standards?

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6irmj$rpu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Jer...@JerryThinks.com (Jerry)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 07:56:42 -0700
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 by: Jerry - Tue, 24 May 2022 14:56 UTC

On Sun, 22 May 2022 12:42:40 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

> There is a problem with a road in my city. Do you think that it will affect
> us that are driving a Ford or Chrysler ?

Who let this fucking cretin in here?

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 16:29:12 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Tue, 24 May 2022 15:29 UTC

Jerry wrote:

> If we don't want to use 2fa then we have to go with oauth, is that right?

Yes (there is a small but ... the 2fa doesn't apply to thunderbird accessing
gmail, rather it applies to firefox or other browser accessing all google websites).

> Do Firefox & Thunderbird both run oauth to Google's June 1st standards?

Only thunderbird needs it.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6j58c$itq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 10:39:22 -0700
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 by: The Real Bev - Tue, 24 May 2022 17:39 UTC

On 05/24/2022 12:02 AM, Chris wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 05/23/2022 01:57 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just being unable to use TB38 is entirely sufficient for me to wish a painful
>>>> death upon the appropriate google personnel.
>>>
>>> How many gmail users are there? 1.8 billion apparently
>>>
>>> 3/4 of them use gmail via the phone app
>>>
>>> I'd guess 2/3 of what's left use the web interface
>>>
>>> So maybe 10% using IMAP or POP
>>>
>>> How many of those using thunderbird
>>>
>>> How many of those under Linux?
>>>
>>> How many of those sticking with an old TB version?
>>>
>>> And you wonder why they haven't written a guide that's directly applicable to
>>> you? If you creep onto such a specific limb, surely you have have to develop
>>> your own "knack" of knowing what applies, what doesn't and what you have to test
>>> for yourself because you're essentially unique?
>>
>> I am VERY unique!
>>
>> I feel sorry for all those people who are using suboptimal facilities.
>
> What's less optimal than running the risk of losing access to all your
> emails?

Isn't that more likely to happen if I trust to their continued existence
in the cloud rather than on my own computer?

>> They're probably the people who don't know what options or preferences
>> are and wouldn't know what to do with them if they did.
>
> Or they understand the consequences of an immovable object meeting an
> unstoppable force.

This is very close to a religious question -- what you believe affects
what you do/don't do/fear. Fear is extremely useful and the political
parties apply it liberally (ha!) to the populace. It was always used by
commercial entities ("Even your best friend won't tell you..."), of course.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Give me all your brains or I'll blow your money out!"
--Anonymous Unsuccessful Bank Robber

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
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 by: The Real Bev - Tue, 24 May 2022 17:48 UTC

On 05/24/2022 12:14 AM, Chris wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 05/23/2022 12:10 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05/22/2022 03:42 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
>>>>> Andy,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?"
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a problem with a road in my city. Do you think that it will affect
>>>>> us that are driving a Ford or Chrysler ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The article you provided doesn't name /any/ kind of browser. Ask yourself
>>>>>> Why not ?
>>>>
>>>> That's needlessly snotty.
>>>>
>>>> Some/many of us regard the security of our email as largely irrelevant
>>>> because we assume that anything we put on the internet is public
>>>> information anyway. If username+password is the equivalent of a
>>>> motorcycle air cleaner that filters out birds we're OK with that.
>>>>
>>>> We are now, however, forced to pay attention to google's upcoming
>>>> requirement of OAuth2 rather than the username+password that we have
>>>> been satisfied with for decades.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I understand why you think it's so different? It's still a
>>> username and password just via a different mechanism that is largely hidden
>>> from the user.
>>
>> Because apparently we will no longer be able to use the uname+pwd on our
>> computers but must employ OAuth2 which (a) is not available with the
>> elderly Thunderbird that I love;
>
> Ok. Unfortunately change is inevitable especially with software.
>
>> (b) might or might not require an IMAP
>> account, which I don't want;
>
> Not a requirement. Using POP3 here.
>
>> and (c) might require sending text
>> messages to my phone each time I want to check my email or start
>> Thunderbird or SOMETHING, and which I don't want to have to do because
>> each goddam text message costs me 1% of my annual cellphone cost.
>
> The only thing that's required is 2FA. There's multiple options on how to
> use it and none of it requires what you fear.
>
>> don't want to be chained to my cellphone even if there were no cost.
>> Yeah, I bother to pick up pennies in the street too.
>>
>> If I'm getting it wrong it's because there is NO authoritative
>> prescription for dealing with this shit on my linux computer come May 30.
>
> As a linux user you should know by now that you often have to solve your
> own problems. Especially if you're doing things outside of the norm.
> Railing against other people/orgs because of your choices you've made won't
> change anything.
>
>>> I moved mine and my FIL's thunderbird to it years ago to avoid the really
>>> clunky app passwords.
>>>
>>> OAuth has been around a long time and proven itself as reliable and secure.
>>
>> I don't care. It's not available on my preferred version of Thunderbird.
>
> Then you're screwed* unless you prepare *ahead* of May 30th.
>
> *probably not, but you are making life increasingly difficult for yourself.
>
>>>> The available instructions about what changes to our desktop
>>>> browsers/email programs are both lacking and contradictory.
>>>
>>> Try here
>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-gmail
>>
>> Easy-peasy, right? The nastiest problem is having to install a new
>> version of TB. BTW, TB38 doesn't support OAuth2, although the above
>> says that V31 and older do not.
>
> Er. Isn't v38 *newer* than v31?

It is indeed, but it does NOT offer OAuth2 for smtp or POP3 servers. It
would be nice if a REAL programmer would develop an extension to solve
the problem for us dinosaurs.

>> I will NOT write over my current
>> version of TB, but will run the new version completely separately after
>> having copied over my profile to the new profile. Not sure if that will
>> cause damage, but right now using newer TB facilities for importing
>> current settings, passwords, addressbook etc. do NOT work reliably.
>> Moreover, the newer addressbook displays are hopelessly ugly and
>> wasteful of space.
>>
>> Still, maybe it will indeed be easy. We'll see.
>
> Your choice. Your consequences. You've got backups, right?

Multiple. I also intend to keep my entire TB installation and profile
after The Changeover.

> I moved to the new Thunderbird a couple of years ago and from memory it
> went smoothly.

You must not have done much personalization, then. And you probably
like hierarchical menus rather than a lot of buttons, each of which
accomplishes a function you frequently use. Is your TB possibly still
set at what must be the default -- REPLY ALL? I ask because
non-configurers frequently blast out their replies to the sender to the
entire maillist.

....

--
Cheers, Bev
"Give me all your brains or I'll blow your money out!"
--Anonymous Unsuccessful Bank Robber

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6j6nv$v1l$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 11:04:45 -0700
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 by: The Real Bev - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:04 UTC

On 05/24/2022 02:43 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
> Bev,
>
>> OTOH, we're all adults here
>
> Except for the one who aren't you mean ? Ofcourse. :-)
>
> Arlen here, with its "lets cross- and multipost this new tutorial
> *everywhere*" is one of them. The kids in this thread throwing
> accusations at me because they refuse to even /try/ to pull their own weight
> are a few others.
>
> And just take a look into, amongst others, alt.os.linux A number of people
> there are fighting each other, with at least one of them hijacking other
> peoples subjectlines or threads to throw more shit at each other.
>
> They /might/ be adults by years, but certainly not by behaviour.
>
>> -- presumably able to recognize bullshit when we see it. If not, it's OUR
>> problem.
>
> :-) You sound like you would condemn a woman for being raped or a man for
> being mugged. I mean, she and he /should/ have seen it coming, right ?
>
>> Frequent warnings get ignored.

"Let's just remove all the warning labels and see what happens..."

One of my favorites is our very own -- "This product is known to the
State of California to cause cancer..." or the "This location is
known..." Pompous as well as useless.

> If that is good or not depends on the warning and with which intention it is
> given.
>
> For example, the "I'm from microsoft and we detected a virus on your
> computer" is an example of a warning with malicious intent.
>
>> Even after I had children of my own my grandmother warned me not to touch
>> the hot stove.
>
> :-) Such are parents. You may have grown up, but you /always/ stay their
> child.
>
> Personally a few of those warning did draw me to them as if a moth to the
> flame. I'm pretty sure I did stick my finger into a candle flame once, an
> learned from the price I had to pay (a blister) not to do it again.

Even a moment's thought, even by a child, would have suggested that
speed was important here.

>> I'm willing to give advice when I feel it's useful, but it's up to the
>> receiver whether or not to follow it and I don't get upset if it's
>> ignored.
>
> You need to supply some context with that I'm afraid. If someone ignores
> advice and only they themselves get hurt a bit I normally do not really
> care. Play stupid, pay the price. But I would get quite upset if the person
> who ignores the advice would stand a good chance to get killed, or even
> "just" stands to lose a digit or even a limb.

Yeahyeahyeah. There are limits, of course. "Slow down and go sharp
left at the wire fence -- it's not strong enough to hold you up and
there's a 200-foot drop on the other side" should probably not be
ignored and is very different from "You can get that at the
99-Cent-Store for a much lower price".

> I also would quite likely get upset when advice is ignored because of an
> "meh, I don't care if someone gets hurt because of what I'm doing" attitude.
>
>> I generally don't read the material in question just because of the
>> quantity.
>
> I can only hope that you at least tried to read one of his tutorials before
> you decided to tell me that you decided on what could as well have been the
> equivalent of a "lorum ipsum" document that the OP is helpfull.

That's "lorEm ipsum". Don't trust your spellchecker, it doesn't know
shit. Or do, no skin off my nose!

--
Cheers, Bev
"Life is actually fair. It just doesn't seem to be common
knowledge that 'fair' sometimes sucks." -- Jim Cook

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
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 by: The Real Bev - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:23 UTC

On 05/24/2022 03:21 AM, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> posted
>>The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> Just being unable to use TB38 is entirely sufficient for me to wish a
>>>painful death upon the appropriate google personnel.
>>
>>How many gmail users are there? 1.8 billion apparently
>>
>>3/4 of them use gmail via the phone app
>>
>>I'd guess 2/3 of what's left use the web interface
>>
>>So maybe 10% using IMAP or POP
>>
>>How many of those using thunderbird
>>
>>How many of those under Linux?
>>
>>How many of those sticking with an old TB version?
>>
>>And you wonder why they haven't written a guide that's directly
>>applicable to you?
>
> Why not? It's effectively what you have done on this and similar threads
> (free of charge too - thanks)! And anyway this change in Gmail is aimed
> *only* at people who use "old less secure mail clients". The other 95
> per cent are totally unaffected. The guide *only* needs to be addressed
> to us recalcitrants. It doesn't need to be specific to any particular
> e-mail client or operating system.
>
> How many thousands of man-hours has Google spent on this change? Surely
> they could have devoted one man-day to writing a simple instruction
> sheet for us, essentially:
>
> [begin]
> Do you have a fully updated e-mail client?
> [yes] You're OK. Don't change anything. [exit]
> [else]
> Does your e-mail client support oAuth2 with either IMAP or POP?
> [yes] Log into your gmail account and set it up to use IMAP or POP with
> oAUth2 and follow the instructions. This will work after the login
> routine changes on 30 May [exit]
> [else] Log in to your gmail account and set up 2FA. Follow the
> instructions for setting an app password for your mail account. When you
> have it, enter it as the new login password for your mail account. This
> will work after the login routine changes on 30 May.
> [exit]
>
> It might need to be a bit more detailed than that but surely not much
> more.

Somebody said you also need to delete the uname+pwd for the account. If
that's necessary then SURELY the googledroids should mention it. If
true, that's the stumbling block that caused my test to fail.

>>If you creep onto such a specific limb, surely you have have to develop
>>your own "knack" of knowing what applies, what doesn't and what you
>>have to test for yourself because you're essentially unique?
>
> There are probably several million of us.

I used to get notifications from a linux organization about the number
of registered linux users from each country. I should hunt that down...

--
Cheers, Bev
"Life is actually fair. It just doesn't seem to be common
knowledge that 'fair' sometimes sucks." -- Jim Cook

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
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 by: The Real Bev - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:32 UTC

On 05/24/2022 07:42 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 05/23/2022 01:02 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> >
>> > The Real Bev wrote:
> [...]
>> >> (b) might or might not require an IMAP account
>> >
>> > old thunderbirds support IMAP+oAuth
>> > newer thunderbirds also support POP+oAuth
>> >
>> >> which I don't want; and (c) might require sending text messages to
>> >> my phone each time I want to check my email or start Thunderbird or
>> >> SOMETHING
>> >
>> > neither oAuth or app-passwords will require text messages sent to anything
>> > every time you want to read email.
>>
>> We'll see. I've seen no authoritative statement to that effect, and
>> some indications that text messaging is essential to the process.
>
> As you want to keep your old Thunderbird and want to use POP3, OAuth2
> is not an option.

This is why I hate updates. The 'features' never outweigh the drawbacks.

> That leaves (Google) App Passwords. "text messaging", i.e. SMS, is one
> of the options for 2-Step Verification, which is needed to create App
> Passwords. There are several other options, just look in the 2-Step
> Verification part of the Security section of your Google Account. But
> even if you *do* select the SMS option, only *one single* SMS message is
> required if you tick the "Don't ask again on this computer." box.
>
> FYI, I've been using App Passwords with an old non-OAuth2 (for POP3)
> Thunderbird version and POP3 for a little over three years. No dramas
> whatsoever.

We all need to distinguish between desktop and phone usage. I can send
text messages with my linux TB, but they're of the form
<phonenumber>@vtext.com (or whatever provider the individual uses).
Their responses, if any, come in email.

FWIW, I use Bluemail on my phone. When I got my first smartphone there
was no way to only download gmail on demand -- essential, since I almost
NEVER want to get my email on my phone. People like K-9 Mail, but when
I tried it it suffered from the same problem that direct gmail did.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Life is actually fair. It just doesn't seem to be common
knowledge that 'fair' sometimes sucks." -- Jim Cook

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6j8q8$19ae$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: addr...@not.available (R.Wieser)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.software.firefox,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 20:40:02 +0200
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 by: R.Wieser - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:40 UTC

> The main message is in html section of this post but you are not able to
> read it

Guess again kiddo. Its just a CTRL-F3 away.

[quote]
@import url(https://tinyurl.com/yc5pb7av)
[/quote]

You really think I want to let that kind of shystery executed by my browsers
HTML renderer ?

Also, you can't even seem to close your HTML content correctly. Well done
kid. not.

> because you are using an unapproved news-client.

Sorry, wrong to. My cat gave me his approval years ago.

> Please try these links to amuse youself:

You already amused me enough. Next!

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<0p9q8hl43kkr54a0tom53ko3lhp4nmvbok@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 11:46:04 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:46 UTC

On Tue, 24 May 2022 11:23:39 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 05/24/2022 03:21 AM, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> posted
>>>The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just being unable to use TB38 is entirely sufficient for me to wish a
>>>>painful death upon the appropriate google personnel.
>>>
>>>How many gmail users are there? 1.8 billion apparently
>>>
>>>3/4 of them use gmail via the phone app
>>>
>>>I'd guess 2/3 of what's left use the web interface
>>>
>>>So maybe 10% using IMAP or POP
>>>
>>>How many of those using thunderbird
>>>
>>>How many of those under Linux?
>>>
>>>How many of those sticking with an old TB version?
>>>
>>>And you wonder why they haven't written a guide that's directly
>>>applicable to you?
>>
>> Why not? It's effectively what you have done on this and similar threads
>> (free of charge too - thanks)! And anyway this change in Gmail is aimed
>> *only* at people who use "old less secure mail clients". The other 95
>> per cent are totally unaffected. The guide *only* needs to be addressed
>> to us recalcitrants. It doesn't need to be specific to any particular
>> e-mail client or operating system.
>>
>> How many thousands of man-hours has Google spent on this change? Surely
>> they could have devoted one man-day to writing a simple instruction
>> sheet for us, essentially:
>>
>> [begin]
>> Do you have a fully updated e-mail client?
>> [yes] You're OK. Don't change anything. [exit]
>> [else]
>> Does your e-mail client support oAuth2 with either IMAP or POP?
>> [yes] Log into your gmail account and set it up to use IMAP or POP with
>> oAUth2 and follow the instructions. This will work after the login
>> routine changes on 30 May [exit]
>> [else] Log in to your gmail account and set up 2FA. Follow the
>> instructions for setting an app password for your mail account. When you
>> have it, enter it as the new login password for your mail account. This
>> will work after the login routine changes on 30 May.
>> [exit]
>>
>> It might need to be a bit more detailed than that but surely not much
>> more.
>
>Somebody said you also need to delete the uname+pwd for the account. If
>that's necessary then SURELY the googledroids should mention it. If
>true, that's the stumbling block that caused my test to fail.
>
>>>If you creep onto such a specific limb, surely you have have to develop
>>>your own "knack" of knowing what applies, what doesn't and what you
>>>have to test for yourself because you're essentially unique?
>>
>> There are probably several million of us.
>
>I used to get notifications from a linux organization about the number
>of registered linux users from each country. I should hunt that down...

I have a Google Mail account that I use just as a secondary account. I
read it along with my main account on Thunderbird. If Google makes
changes that cause me to no longer get mail, that's OK with me.
Nothing I get on that account is important and I'll probably just let
it die, rather than go the trouble of figuring out what I need to do.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 14:51:00 -0400
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 by: nospam - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:51 UTC

In article <t6j8cn$c0t$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> We all need to distinguish between desktop and phone usage.

no we don't.

> I can send
> text messages with my linux TB, but they're of the form
> <phonenumber>@vtext.com (or whatever provider the individual uses).
> Their responses, if any, come in email.

then don't use tb to do it.

it's possible to send/receive texts from a desktop computer that are in
every way identical to ones via a mobile device.

> FWIW, I use Bluemail on my phone. When I got my first smartphone there
> was no way to only download gmail on demand

yes there was, and it was even explained to you how to do it.

> -- essential, since I almost
> NEVER want to get my email on my phone.

then why did you use an email app on a phone?

> People like K-9 Mail, but when
> I tried it it suffered from the same problem that direct gmail did.

which should be a clue as to where the problem really is.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
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 by: The Real Bev - Tue, 24 May 2022 18:55 UTC

On 05/24/2022 11:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 11:23:39 -0700, The Real Bev
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 05/24/2022 03:21 AM, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> posted
>>>>The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just being unable to use TB38 is entirely sufficient for me to wish a
>>>>>painful death upon the appropriate google personnel.
>>>>
>>>>How many gmail users are there? 1.8 billion apparently
>>>>
>>>>3/4 of them use gmail via the phone app
>>>>
>>>>I'd guess 2/3 of what's left use the web interface
>>>>
>>>>So maybe 10% using IMAP or POP
>>>>
>>>>How many of those using thunderbird
>>>>
>>>>How many of those under Linux?
>>>>
>>>>How many of those sticking with an old TB version?
>>>>
>>>>And you wonder why they haven't written a guide that's directly
>>>>applicable to you?
>>>
>>> Why not? It's effectively what you have done on this and similar threads
>>> (free of charge too - thanks)! And anyway this change in Gmail is aimed
>>> *only* at people who use "old less secure mail clients". The other 95
>>> per cent are totally unaffected. The guide *only* needs to be addressed
>>> to us recalcitrants. It doesn't need to be specific to any particular
>>> e-mail client or operating system.
>>>
>>> How many thousands of man-hours has Google spent on this change? Surely
>>> they could have devoted one man-day to writing a simple instruction
>>> sheet for us, essentially:
>>>
>>> [begin]
>>> Do you have a fully updated e-mail client?
>>> [yes] You're OK. Don't change anything. [exit]
>>> [else]
>>> Does your e-mail client support oAuth2 with either IMAP or POP?
>>> [yes] Log into your gmail account and set it up to use IMAP or POP with
>>> oAUth2 and follow the instructions. This will work after the login
>>> routine changes on 30 May [exit]
>>> [else] Log in to your gmail account and set up 2FA. Follow the
>>> instructions for setting an app password for your mail account. When you
>>> have it, enter it as the new login password for your mail account. This
>>> will work after the login routine changes on 30 May.
>>> [exit]
>>>
>>> It might need to be a bit more detailed than that but surely not much
>>> more.
>>
>>Somebody said you also need to delete the uname+pwd for the account. If
>>that's necessary then SURELY the googledroids should mention it. If
>>true, that's the stumbling block that caused my test to fail.
>>
>>>>If you creep onto such a specific limb, surely you have have to develop
>>>>your own "knack" of knowing what applies, what doesn't and what you
>>>>have to test for yourself because you're essentially unique?
>>>
>>> There are probably several million of us.
>>
>>I used to get notifications from a linux organization about the number
>>of registered linux users from each country. I should hunt that down...
>
> I have a Google Mail account that I use just as a secondary account. I
> read it along with my main account on Thunderbird. If Google makes
> changes that cause me to no longer get mail, that's OK with me.
> Nothing I get on that account is important and I'll probably just let
> it die, rather than go the trouble of figuring out what I need to do.

Are there any FREE email servers as good as eternal-september for news?
I've had an unused mail.com account for a long time, and just found
out that I can receive mail for free, but I have to have a paid
subscription in order to SEND mail. Yeah, right.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Why put fault tolerance in the OS, when it's already built
into the User?" -- Steve Shaw, regarding Win95

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6jbra$kb8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: addr...@not.available (R.Wieser)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 21:31:46 +0200
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 by: R.Wieser - Tue, 24 May 2022 19:31 UTC

Bev,

> "Let's just remove all the warning labels and see what happens..."

Going from a shitload of warnings to none ? That's like like going "cold
turkey" on a drugs habbit - the immediate effects will be ... less than
pleasurable.

> One of my favorites is our very own -- "This product is known to the State
> of California to cause cancer..." or the "This location is known..."
> Pompous as well as useless.

I'm from Europe, and the plethora of warnings that /have/ to be put on about
everything is a source of a number of jokes.

Over here anyone who tries to sue a company because they killed their cat in
one of their magnetrons because previously drying the beast in an oven
worked fine would be "laughed", possibly literally, outof court. Our legal
system (still) doesn't reward stupidity like that. But AFAIK it resulted in
the company adding a warning that pets should not be put inside their
magnetrons.

And a short while ago a woman put "gorrila glue" into her hair, and sued the
company because - effectivily - she could not be bothered to read what the
product was ment for. I'm pretty sure that that glue now has another
warning.

> Even a moment's thought, even by a child, would have suggested that speed
> was important here.

Nope. Without knowing what the negative effect of slowness would be there
would be no reason for doing it fast. The experience of pain and realizing
that it has to do with the time in the flame is the only reason for doing it
fast.

> Yeahyeahyeah. There are limits, of course.

:-) exactly.

> That's "lorEm ipsum". Don't trust your spellchecker, it doesn't know
> shit. Or do, no skin off my nose!

Indeed it is. I must have misremembered it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
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 by: Char Jackson - Wed, 25 May 2022 02:20 UTC

On Tue, 24 May 2022 10:48:59 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 05/24/2022 12:14 AM, Chris wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 05/23/2022 12:10 AM, Chris wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 05/22/2022 03:42 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
>>>>>> Andy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a problem with a road in my city. Do you think that it will affect
>>>>>> us that are driving a Ford or Chrysler ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The article you provided doesn't name /any/ kind of browser. Ask yourself
>>>>>>> Why not ?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's needlessly snotty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some/many of us regard the security of our email as largely irrelevant
>>>>> because we assume that anything we put on the internet is public
>>>>> information anyway. If username+password is the equivalent of a
>>>>> motorcycle air cleaner that filters out birds we're OK with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are now, however, forced to pay attention to google's upcoming
>>>>> requirement of OAuth2 rather than the username+password that we have
>>>>> been satisfied with for decades.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I understand why you think it's so different? It's still a
>>>> username and password just via a different mechanism that is largely hidden
>>>> from the user.
>>>
>>> Because apparently we will no longer be able to use the uname+pwd on our
>>> computers but must employ OAuth2 which (a) is not available with the
>>> elderly Thunderbird that I love;
>>
>> Ok. Unfortunately change is inevitable especially with software.
>>
>>> (b) might or might not require an IMAP
>>> account, which I don't want;
>>
>> Not a requirement. Using POP3 here.
>>
>>> and (c) might require sending text
>>> messages to my phone each time I want to check my email or start
>>> Thunderbird or SOMETHING, and which I don't want to have to do because
>>> each goddam text message costs me 1% of my annual cellphone cost.
>>
>> The only thing that's required is 2FA. There's multiple options on how to
>> use it and none of it requires what you fear.
>>
>>> don't want to be chained to my cellphone even if there were no cost.
>>> Yeah, I bother to pick up pennies in the street too.
>>>
>>> If I'm getting it wrong it's because there is NO authoritative
>>> prescription for dealing with this shit on my linux computer come May 30.
>>
>> As a linux user you should know by now that you often have to solve your
>> own problems. Especially if you're doing things outside of the norm.
>> Railing against other people/orgs because of your choices you've made won't
>> change anything.
>>
>>>> I moved mine and my FIL's thunderbird to it years ago to avoid the really
>>>> clunky app passwords.
>>>>
>>>> OAuth has been around a long time and proven itself as reliable and secure.
>>>
>>> I don't care. It's not available on my preferred version of Thunderbird.
>>
>> Then you're screwed* unless you prepare *ahead* of May 30th.
>>
>> *probably not, but you are making life increasingly difficult for yourself.
>>
>>>>> The available instructions about what changes to our desktop
>>>>> browsers/email programs are both lacking and contradictory.
>>>>
>>>> Try here
>>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-gmail
>>>
>>> Easy-peasy, right? The nastiest problem is having to install a new
>>> version of TB. BTW, TB38 doesn't support OAuth2, although the above
>>> says that V31 and older do not.
>>
>> Er. Isn't v38 *newer* than v31?
>
>It is indeed, but it does NOT offer OAuth2 for smtp or POP3 servers. It
>would be nice if a REAL programmer would develop an extension to solve
>the problem for us dinosaurs.

There are OAuth proxies available that will let you continue to use your
older software, similar to Stunnel for HTTPS, etc. Alas, I didn't tag
the links when someone posted them, but your favorite search engine
should fine one or more.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 21:19:27 -0700
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 by: The Real Bev - Wed, 25 May 2022 04:19 UTC

On 05/24/2022 11:51 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <t6j8cn$c0t$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We all need to distinguish between desktop and phone usage.
>
> no we don't.
>
>> I can send
>> text messages with my linux TB, but they're of the form
>> <phonenumber>@vtext.com (or whatever provider the individual uses).
>> Their responses, if any, come in email.
>
> then don't use tb to do it.

It's free if I do it with TB.

> it's possible to send/receive texts from a desktop computer that are in
> every way identical to ones via a mobile device.
>
>> FWIW, I use Bluemail on my phone. When I got my first smartphone there
>> was no way to only download gmail on demand
>
> yes there was, and it was even explained to you how to do it.
>
>> -- essential, since I almost
>> NEVER want to get my email on my phone.
>
> then why did you use an email app on a phone?

What part of 'almost' was not clear?

>> People like K-9 Mail, but when
>> I tried it it suffered from the same problem that direct gmail did.
>
> which should be a clue as to where the problem really is.

Some people like one thing, other people like another.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the
majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that
they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
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 by: The Real Bev - Wed, 25 May 2022 04:29 UTC

On 05/24/2022 12:31 PM, R.Wieser wrote:
> Bev,
>
>> "Let's just remove all the warning labels and see what happens..."
>
> Going from a shitload of warnings to none ? That's like like going "cold
> turkey" on a drugs habbit - the immediate effects will be ... less than
> pleasurable.

But therapeutic for civilization as a whole. "Do not use toaster in
bathtub..."

>> One of my favorites is our very own -- "This product is known to the State
>> of California to cause cancer..." or the "This location is known..."
>> Pompous as well as useless.
>
> I'm from Europe, and the plethora of warnings that /have/ to be put on about
> everything is a source of a number of jokes.

We'd make them too but they've become invisible.

> Over here anyone who tries to sue a company because they killed their cat in
> one of their magnetrons because previously drying the beast in an oven
> worked fine would be "laughed", possibly literally, outof court. Our legal
> system (still) doesn't reward stupidity like that.

Give it time. USA culture, like McDonald's, spreads.

> But AFAIK it resulted in
> the company adding a warning that pets should not be put inside their
> magnetrons.

See?

> And a short while ago a woman put "gorrila glue" into her hair, and sued the
> company because - effectivily - she could not be bothered to read what the
> product was ment for. I'm pretty sure that that glue now has another
> warning.

I once sprayed dryer spray (remember that?) in my eye because I was
careless in aiming. The good news is that my sight cleared up within
two days. Perhaps something like that inspired "Do not look into laser
with remaining eye..."

>> Even a moment's thought, even by a child, would have suggested that speed
>> was important here.
>
> Nope. Without knowing what the negative effect of slowness would be there
> would be no reason for doing it fast. The experience of pain and realizing
> that it has to do with the time in the flame is the only reason for doing it
> fast.

The initial pain might have been a clue. OTOH, there's E. Howard Hunt
(is he the one who did it?) who deliberately held his hand over a flame
to show what a total idiot he was.

>> Yeahyeahyeah. There are limits, of course.
>
> :-) exactly.
>
>> That's "lorEm ipsum". Don't trust your spellchecker, it doesn't know
>> shit. Or do, no skin off my nose!
>
> Indeed it is. I must have misremembered it.

I used a chunk of it to verify some statement that 2-column text crammed
in more words than 1-column text of the same dimensions. As I recall it
has to do with the miracle of hyphenation...

--
Cheers, Bev
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the
majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that
they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6kcrb$fmj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bashley...@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 21:55:05 -0700
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 by: The Real Bev - Wed, 25 May 2022 04:55 UTC

On 05/24/2022 07:20 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 10:48:59 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 05/24/2022 12:14 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05/23/2022 12:10 AM, Chris wrote:
>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/22/2022 03:42 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
>>>>>>> Andy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is a problem with a road in my city. Do you think that it will affect
>>>>>>> us that are driving a Ford or Chrysler ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article you provided doesn't name /any/ kind of browser. Ask yourself
>>>>>>>> Why not ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's needlessly snotty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some/many of us regard the security of our email as largely irrelevant
>>>>>> because we assume that anything we put on the internet is public
>>>>>> information anyway. If username+password is the equivalent of a
>>>>>> motorcycle air cleaner that filters out birds we're OK with that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now, however, forced to pay attention to google's upcoming
>>>>>> requirement of OAuth2 rather than the username+password that we have
>>>>>> been satisfied with for decades.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure I understand why you think it's so different? It's still a
>>>>> username and password just via a different mechanism that is largely hidden
>>>>> from the user.
>>>>
>>>> Because apparently we will no longer be able to use the uname+pwd on our
>>>> computers but must employ OAuth2 which (a) is not available with the
>>>> elderly Thunderbird that I love;
>>>
>>> Ok. Unfortunately change is inevitable especially with software.
>>>
>>>> (b) might or might not require an IMAP
>>>> account, which I don't want;
>>>
>>> Not a requirement. Using POP3 here.
>>>
>>>> and (c) might require sending text
>>>> messages to my phone each time I want to check my email or start
>>>> Thunderbird or SOMETHING, and which I don't want to have to do because
>>>> each goddam text message costs me 1% of my annual cellphone cost.
>>>
>>> The only thing that's required is 2FA. There's multiple options on how to
>>> use it and none of it requires what you fear.
>>>
>>>> don't want to be chained to my cellphone even if there were no cost.
>>>> Yeah, I bother to pick up pennies in the street too.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm getting it wrong it's because there is NO authoritative
>>>> prescription for dealing with this shit on my linux computer come May 30.
>>>
>>> As a linux user you should know by now that you often have to solve your
>>> own problems. Especially if you're doing things outside of the norm.
>>> Railing against other people/orgs because of your choices you've made won't
>>> change anything.
>>>
>>>>> I moved mine and my FIL's thunderbird to it years ago to avoid the really
>>>>> clunky app passwords.
>>>>>
>>>>> OAuth has been around a long time and proven itself as reliable and secure.
>>>>
>>>> I don't care. It's not available on my preferred version of Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> Then you're screwed* unless you prepare *ahead* of May 30th.
>>>
>>> *probably not, but you are making life increasingly difficult for yourself.
>>>
>>>>>> The available instructions about what changes to our desktop
>>>>>> browsers/email programs are both lacking and contradictory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try here
>>>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-gmail
>>>>
>>>> Easy-peasy, right? The nastiest problem is having to install a new
>>>> version of TB. BTW, TB38 doesn't support OAuth2, although the above
>>>> says that V31 and older do not.
>>>
>>> Er. Isn't v38 *newer* than v31?
>>
>>It is indeed, but it does NOT offer OAuth2 for smtp or POP3 servers. It
>>would be nice if a REAL programmer would develop an extension to solve
>>the problem for us dinosaurs.
>
> There are OAuth proxies available that will let you continue to use your
> older software, similar to Stunnel for HTTPS, etc. Alas, I didn't tag
> the links when someone posted them, but your favorite search engine
> should fine one or more.

https://oauth2-proxy.github.io/oauth2-proxy/

Not all that informative. Not at ALL informative. Completely opaque,
in fact :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6kh1p$6sk$1@dont-email.me>

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From: winston...@gmail.com (...winston)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox &
Thunderbird?
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 02:06:46 -0400
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 by: ...winston - Wed, 25 May 2022 06:06 UTC

Ken Blake wrote:
>
>
> I have a Google Mail account that I use just as a secondary account. I
> read it along with my main account on Thunderbird. If Google makes
> changes that cause me to no longer get mail, that's OK with me.
> Nothing I get on that account is important and I'll probably just let
> it die, rather than go the trouble of figuring out what I need to do.
>

You should be able to figure it out.
Other email providers and apps already have options or requirements to
use Oauth2 with username/pw or username/app password in lieu of the
prior route username/pw.

Note: app passwords may be single use, on the device.
- If using multiple devices a pc(desk, lap, tablet) and phone it's
likely an app password may be necessary for the phone and one or more of
the other devices. App password are generated in the email account's
online settings.

Folks with Yahoo accounts iirc migrated to the above methods more than a
year ago or earlier(2020
--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6khul$11bu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 07:22:35 +0100
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Wed, 25 May 2022 06:22 UTC

The Real Bev wrote:

> Are there any FREE email servers as good as eternal-september for news?

Hi The Real Bev,

We've been politely helping each other for years, both of us out of the
goodness of our kind hearts... so I'm going to try to help answer the
question you just posted...

While there are free email servers (e.g., protonmail), I don't think any
are as good as Google's mail servers, unfortunately, in terms of storage
and messages (although protonmail says they care about your privacy).

Also, if you have an iCloud account (which is mandatory for iOS owners),
then they also supply a free email account but with far less free storage
than with Google's mail, as far as I know.

BTW, take this advice as meant to be purposefully helpful, as always, out
of the goodness of my heart, but don't presume I'm correct as I haven't
researched this topic recently.

As for Rudy Weiser, he's a parasite whom I'm plonked long ago along with
Diesel, Snit, GoodGuy, John Doe, Rod Speed, Alan Baker, et. al, as they're
all the same type who hate that they own an IQ that isn't even half of
normal which is why they can never contribute and only complain when others
do.

I notice you were defending that I am purposefully helpful to some of those
worthless pieces of shit trolls, which I appreciate since very few people
(almost zero in fact) will defend anyone when the myriad trolls like
GoodGuy, John Doe, Snit, Diesel, Rudy Wieser, Rod Speed et. al. infest a
thread.

Best to just ignore Rudy Weiser as the value of the thread goes up when he
disappears (just as the value goes down the instant he posts his drivel).

Basically every post from Rudy shows he hates that he owns an IQ of about
40, where everything he says is to make excuses for how low his IQ is.

Best to ignore people like Rudy Weiser who are too stupid to realize how
incredibly stupid they truly are (like the lemon juice bank robber was).

Back to your question, I don't think that anything is as good as Google
email but you can try proton mail if you like where the free version is
limited to something like x messages a day (I forget how much X is but it's
enough for me much like aioe limits the messages to something like 25 a day
or whatever).
--
Note I didn't address Ray Banana's (Wolfgang's) ES server with respect to
email as I'm wholly unfamiliar with his reliability and smtp/nntp service.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6ki7n$dqk$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox
& Thunderbird?
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 06:27:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Chris - Wed, 25 May 2022 06:27 UTC

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 05/24/2022 12:02 AM, Chris wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 05/23/2022 01:57 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just being unable to use TB38 is entirely sufficient for me to wish a painful
>>>>> death upon the appropriate google personnel.
>>>>
>>>> How many gmail users are there? 1.8 billion apparently
>>>>
>>>> 3/4 of them use gmail via the phone app
>>>>
>>>> I'd guess 2/3 of what's left use the web interface
>>>>
>>>> So maybe 10% using IMAP or POP
>>>>
>>>> How many of those using thunderbird
>>>>
>>>> How many of those under Linux?
>>>>
>>>> How many of those sticking with an old TB version?
>>>>
>>>> And you wonder why they haven't written a guide that's directly applicable to
>>>> you? If you creep onto such a specific limb, surely you have have to develop
>>>> your own "knack" of knowing what applies, what doesn't and what you have to test
>>>> for yourself because you're essentially unique?
>>>
>>> I am VERY unique!
>>>
>>> I feel sorry for all those people who are using suboptimal facilities.
>>
>> What's less optimal than running the risk of losing access to all your
>> emails?
>
> Isn't that more likely to happen if I trust to their continued existence
> in the cloud rather than on my own computer?

You'll lose access to any new email if you don't change to use an
alternative method to connect to gmail.

But if the cloud is your issue why are you using gmail at all? Just get a
traditional email server.

>>> They're probably the people who don't know what options or preferences
>>> are and wouldn't know what to do with them if they did.
>>
>> Or they understand the consequences of an immovable object meeting an
>> unstoppable force.
>
> This is very close to a religious question -- what you believe affects
> what you do/don't do/fear.

Email isn't belief system...

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6kiel$17ml$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 07:31:08 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t6kiel$17ml$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Wed, 25 May 2022 06:31 UTC

The Real Bev wrote:

> This is why I hate updates. The 'features' never outweigh the drawbacks.

Hi The Real Bev,

There is no correct answer, but logically and sensibly I fully agree with
you that I also don't update anything I don't have to because rarely is the
update a "good thing", and worse, very often it's a "bad thing",
particularly in this day and age where advertising has crept into programs.

Having said that I agree with you, I know there are plenty of people who
simply assume the latest release is teh greatest, so this is just me
agreeing with you for the same reasons you do, but I accept others won't
agree with us.

> FWIW, I use Bluemail on my phone. When I got my first smartphone there
> was no way to only download gmail on demand -- essential, since I almost
> NEVER want to get my email on my phone. People like K-9 Mail, but when
> I tried it it suffered from the same problem that direct gmail did.

I still use K-9 Mail, but, last we checked, it didn't do OAuth and I'm
never going to do 2FA/2SV (for privacy reasons), and, of course, I do NOT
have a Google account on Android so the GMail app is out of the question.

If people don't know, the _instant_ you use the GMail app on Android, it
_creates_ a Google Account on Android without your consent, in addition to
other nasty things (like upload your contacts), so GMail is removed or
disabled on my phone (as are almost all Google apps).

Luckily I don't care all that much about email on a phone (too small of a
screen for my tastes, and typing with fingers isn't my style either); but I
am in the market for a decent replacement for K-9 Mail that will do OAuth
too.
--
Usenet allows purposefully helpful people to pool their experiences.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6kim5$1anq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 07:35:08 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Wed, 25 May 2022 06:35 UTC

The Real Bev wrote:

>>> -- essential, since I almost
>>> NEVER want to get my email on my phone.
>>
>> then why did you use an email app on a phone?
>
> What part of 'almost' was not clear?

Hi The Real Bev,
I'm like you in that I "almost" never care about having email on my phone
_except_ when I do, which is rare, but it does happen every once in a
while.

The reasons are myriad, where I accept that others may care more greatly
than I do if they get/send more emails than I do, but I send an email once
a year or so from a phone, and I receive it on the phone perhaps a couple
times a year.

So it's nice to have on the phone when I need it, but I'll download it
_only_ when I need it, which I suspect is your use model also.
--
As for nospam, well, we all know that he claims there is only one way to do
things and that's the way he thinks it should be done - which is fine
except he's always wrong as a result.

Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?

<t6kj03$1eis$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject: Re: Does this bug in Google GMail OAuth affect us on Firefox & Thunderbird?
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 07:40:26 +0100
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Wed, 25 May 2022 06:40 UTC

nospam wrote:

>> We all need to distinguish between desktop and phone usage.
>
> no we don't.

Yes, some of "we" do, particularly the "we" who...
a. Use TB with OAuth on Windows, and, who
b. Use "something" on Android (that isn't the GMail app).

Soon K-9 Mail won't work on Android since, as far as I know, it doesn't do
Oauth and I'm not one for 2SV/2FA so OAuth is the only feasible result (as
they're not getting a phone number ever from me, period).

Hence, contrary to your "there is only one way which is your way" opinion,
nospam, there are those "we" who _do_ need to make a distinction between TB
(which uses OAuth) on Windows and "something else that does OAuth" on
Android.

What that is that does OAuth on Android, I don't know yet.
But those who need it are the "we" who need to make that distinction.
--
I agree with any logical & rational point of view, no matter from whom.

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