On 11/3/2021 8:02 PM, 1p166 wrote:

>   Goebbels ... Goring's interests rarely strayed from killing
>   people .......

Goebbels was a good propagandist. Goering (former fighter ace) was
more of a junkie who was self-important. His was a perceptive observation:

> Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.
> Hermann Goring

On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:

> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)

Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
> slavery.

We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 04/11/2021 01:02, 1p166 wrote:
> On 11/3/21 3:26 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 00:27:54 -0400
>> 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>>
>>>     The Big Money people had this figured out LONG
>>>     ago - centuries ago actually. Even Machivelli
>>>     understood the utility of cultivating those
>>>     fake "sides".
>>
>>     Sadly this and all above it is all too true - the lessons of
>> Machiavelli and Sun Tzu are well understood by the major players and have
>> been polished for centuries into a smooth art. In a similar vein I fairly
>> recently re-read Orwell's 1984 and found it shockingly simplistic and
>> naive,
>> that was a sobering discovery.
>
>   It used to be the politicians/priesthood, but then
>   the ADVERTISERS came - and post-WW2 undertook what
>   you might call the "science of salesmanship", lots
>   of psych experiments designed to yield objective
>   data. What motivates people, in what ways, how much,
>   how long ... they made manipulation a science.  And
>   then the politicians/priesthood (esp evangelicals)
>   borrowed all that data.
>

Black magic, meet science.

>   I'll rec a somewhat old book to you - it can still
>   be had. It was writ in the late 50s by a polymath
>   named Jaques Ellul and called "The Technological
>   Society". It was not about computers - it was about
>   the growth of science-informed psychological
>   manipulation by State and private entities. The
>   original was in French, but the English translation
>   is perfectly readable, albeit with some rather odd
>   wording at times.
>
>   Hmm ... I wonder what Obama's "Brain Initiative" was
>   REALLY supposed to find out  :-)
>
>
>>     The indoctrination for it starts in the earliest school with "What's
>> your favourite colour" and gets strengthened outside the classroom with
>> "Who do you support".
>>
>>     I remain thankful that Hermann Göring's astute observation on the
>> ease of raising war fever is not widely utilised today - I remain
>> slightly
>> suspicious about the Falkland's War being a field test of the
>> principle, it
>> was certainly a good demonstration if not.
>>
>
>   Goebbels ... Goring's interests rarely strayed from killing
>   people .......
>
>   Goebbels was a very GOOD propagandist ... but fortunately
>   his instincts and insights were mostly limited to German
>   culture. His stuff never translated very well.
>
>   But if Goebbels had the wealth of scientific data the
>   Mad Men compiled ...
>
>   Anyway, the MS/Apple "duality" is a sort of deliberate
>   scam. You pick a side and are encouraged to feel all
>   superior about it, hurl distain at "those OTHERS".
>   Meanwhile the big investors buy stock in BOTH companies
>   and encourage the 'competition' illusion.
>
And I hold stock in the big investors.

>   Besides we Linux people know WE are the best  :-)

From a certain technological point of view, yes.

But it ain't the only point of view.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 04/11/2021 05:01, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 11/3/2021 8:02 PM, 1p166 wrote:
>
>>    Goebbels ... Goring's interests rarely strayed from killing
>>    people .......
>
> Goebbels was a good propagandist. Goering (former fighter ace) was more
> of a junkie who was self-important. His was a perceptive observation:
>
>> Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is
>> the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a
>> simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or
>> a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
>> Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
>> the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are
>> being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
>> exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.
>> Hermann Goring
>
Goering or Göring - not Goring. That's what bulls do.

--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 05:01:56 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>
> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)

+1

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 11:09:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 04/11/2021 05:01, Dave Garland wrote:
>> On 11/3/2021 8:02 PM, 1p166 wrote:
>>
>>>    Goebbels ... Goring's interests rarely strayed from killing
>>>    people .......
>>
>> Goebbels was a good propagandist. Goering (former fighter ace) was more
>> of a junkie who was self-important. His was a perceptive observation:
>>
>>> Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is
>>> the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a
>>> simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or
>>> a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
>>> Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
>>> the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are
>>> being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
>>> exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.
>>> Hermann Goring
>>
> Goering or Göring - not Goring. That's what bulls do.

Or a place in Sussex.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
>On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 05:01:56 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>>
>> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>
>+1

-2.

See the pdp10 usenet group for a recent example of where BSD falls down.

SVR4 forever! :-)

On 2021-11-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and
>> reinvent slavery.
>
> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.

Yes, as through this world I've wandered
I've seen lots of funny men.
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.

And as through your live you travel,
Yes, as through your life you roam,
You won't never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home.

-- Woody Guthrie: Pretty Boy Floyd

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
> >On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 05:01:56 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
> >>
> >> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
> >
> >+1
>
> -2.
>
> See the pdp10 usenet group for a recent example of where BSD falls down.
>
> SVR4 forever! :-)

+1

--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen

On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>> slavery.
>
> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>

It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom

gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>> slavery.
>>
>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>
>
> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>

Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest swapped one
ruling class for another.

--
Pete

On 2021-11-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>>> slavery.
>>>
>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>
>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>
> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest swapped
> one ruling class for another.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
-- The Who

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin

On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
> 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>
> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)

"Close competitor" :-)

Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined".
You have to do about 50% more work to achieve the
same results.

Some may see that as good, but there could be some
debate on that subject.

On 11/3/21 10:02 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 11/2/21 22:26, 1p166 wrote:
>
>

>>    Got a bad shock today trying to upgrade my Buster
>>    to Bullseye ... the apt full-upgrade hit an error
>>    halfway through and trashed it. Cannot find any
>>    option that really says "ignore ALL errors and
>>    keep going". Fortunately I'd used gparted to
>>    make a full copy of my existing system. Alas
>>    my Buster is chock-FULL of add-on software
>>    that was meticulously added and tweaked. Really
>>    REALLY don't want to start all over again.
>>    Winders really IS better in this respect, but
>>    maybe ONLY that respect.

>     I will say only that I am sorry to hear of your
> problems with Debian upgrades

It got WORSE today. Made a "blank" BullsEye install and
then brute-forced my Buster home stuff on top of it.

SEEMED ok at first, but a good THIRD of the software
that I regularly use either wasn't in the repo or
just DIDN'T WORK. Hey, TRY to install Lazarus -
infinite BS about the FPC version being wrong and
I tried several versions. VirtualBox said I needed
to sign certain kernal modules (NOT an easy proposition)
so UEFI would be happy - but it's not a UEFI system.

Deb USED to be great about only offering a new version
when it was dead solid.

Hell, I might have to bite it and move back to Mint
after all these years.

Anyway, BullsEye is NOT ready for prime time. Maybe
in six months or so. Deb needs to get it right and
external providers need to get their ports right.

DID encounter a disto that seemed to work pretty
smoothly using BullsEye as a base - MX-21. Always
liked MX ... this laptop is MX. Maybe that'd be
even better than Mint or Lubuntu.

Groovy hepcat Charlie Gibbs was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat, 30
Oct 2021 03:52 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

> On 2021-10-29, 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> Fortunately, it doesn't look like time travel can
>> be realized in the real world.
>
> Too bad. I'd love go to back and see to it that
> Bill Gates' parents never met.

What makes you think they did? I mean..., they must have been together
in the same place at one point; but that doesn't mean they met (in the
social sense). Money changing hands in return for a service could've
been the entire basis of their relationship. :)

--

----- Dig the NEW and IMPROVED news sig!! -----

-------------- Shaggy was here! ---------------
Ain't I'm a dawg!!

On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:51:04 -0400
1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:

> On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
> > 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
> >
> > Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>
> "Close competitor" :-)
>
> Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined".
> You have to do about 50% more work to achieve the
> same results.

BSDs are more industrial style - solid, reliable, consistent. Linux
distributions tend to be more consumer style - flashy, convenient,
constantly changing. I prefer the former.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 07:37:51 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:51:04 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> > On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>> >
>> > Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>>
>> "Close competitor" :-)
>>
>> Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined". You have to do
>> about 50% more work to achieve the same results.
>
> BSDs are more industrial style - solid, reliable, consistent.
Linux
> distributions tend to be more consumer style - flashy, convenient,
> constantly changing. I prefer the former.

+1.

Perhaps Linux is simpler for people to use because many management
operations only need you to know about one thing - systemd.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>>> slavery.
>>>
>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>>
>>
>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>
>
> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest swapped one
> ruling class for another.
>

Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:51:04 -0400
>1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> > On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
>> > 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>> >
>> > Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>>
>> "Close competitor" :-)
>>
>> Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined".
>> You have to do about 50% more work to achieve the
>> same results.
>
> BSDs are more industrial style - solid, reliable, consistent. Linux
>distributions tend to be more consumer style - flashy, convenient,
>constantly changing. I prefer the former.

I give you Redhat Enterprise Linux and SUSE Enterprise Linux Server. Far
more solid, reliable and consistent than any *BSD release. Ever. Hands down.

On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and
>>>>> reinvent
>>>>> slavery.
>>>>
>>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and  debt, not chains.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>
>>
>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>> swapped one
>> ruling class for another.
>>
>
> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
> Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>
Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.

--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

On 05/11/2021 14:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
>> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and
>>>>>> reinvent
>>>>>> slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational
>>>> establishments,
>>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>>> swapped one
>>> ruling class for another.
>>>
>>
>> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great
>> Parasite Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>>
> Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.

You deal with your parasites; i'll deal with mine.

On 11/5/21 08:53, gareth evans wrote:
> On 05/11/2021 14:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
>>> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and
>>>>>>> reinvent
>>>>>>> slavery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and  debt, not chains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational
>>>>> establishments,
>>>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>>>> swapped one
>>>> ruling class for another.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great
>>> Parasite Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>>>
>> Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.
>
> You deal with your parasites; i'll deal with mine.

As for serfdom it is hard to be tied to the land but slavery
where the victim is mere chattel is worse.

If you have parasites administer Ivermectin because that is what it is
intended for. Or have your parasites characterized and pick a
better agent for their removal from your system. In any case parasites
are very effective at survival. Some large number of people may
idolize parasites and only want to imitate them so you can expect
resistance from the host bodies. Check out Brian Lumley's endless
series of novels about parasites from another dimenion who being
at base leeches turn their hosts into horrific vampires.

bliss- -“Nearly any fool can use a GNU/Linux computer. Many do.”
After all here I am...

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 2021-11-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
>
>> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>
>>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>>> swapped one ruling class for another.
>>
>> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
>> Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>
> Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.

Indeed. And at least the royals have entertainment value.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin

On 2021-11-05, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

> Groovy hepcat Charlie Gibbs was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat, 30
> Oct 2021 03:52 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
>
>> On 2021-10-29, 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Fortunately, it doesn't look like time travel can
>>> be realized in the real world.
>>
>> Too bad. I'd love go to back and see to it that
>> Bill Gates' parents never met.
>
> What makes you think they did? I mean..., they must have been together
> in the same place at one point; but that doesn't mean they met (in the
> social sense). Money changing hands in return for a service could've
> been the entire basis of their relationship. :)

If Bill's parents had already realized their offspring's dream of
SaaS (Sex as a Service), perhaps there might be an ongoing stream
of payments somewhere. Let's find the audit trail. :-)

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin