I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.

To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.

The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.

One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
spreadsheets, and images.

Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
I don't see.

knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>
> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>
> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
> spreadsheets, and images.
>
> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
> I don't see.

You want an i7 CPU and to skimp on storage...

No! Storage is not whizbang, but it is CRITICAL. Enter NVMe...

Samsung's 980 Pro 1 TB is $155 on Amazon. Oom, baby! So if I were you and
dead set on getting that computer, I would forget about giving the vendor
$150. Be skeptical of buying NVMe through a PC vendor.

If you cannot get 2 NVMe slots on the motherboard, make sure you have at
least one, and add an expansion card for secondary NVMe drive. Works fine
when in Windows, not as fast outside of Windows (but for most that makes
little difference).

Ideally, you would use a Samsung Pro for both. For most people, the primary
would be smaller, maybe 1/2 the secondary.

Note: Even though "NVMe" might be better called "NVMe SSD", it is WAY faster
than conventional SSD so the "NVMe" terminology is CRITICAL.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>
>I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>
>To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
>The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>
>One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>spreadsheets, and images.
>
>Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>I don't see.

Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.

On 6/14/2022 5:22 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>>
>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>
>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>
>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>
>> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>> I don't see.
>
> Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
> card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
> external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.
>
and what about backup???

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:38:19 -0400, Zaidy036 <Eric@Bloch.com> wrote:

>On 6/14/2022 5:22 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>>>
>>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>>
>>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>>
>>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>>
>>> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>>> I don't see.
>>
>> Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
>> card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
>> external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.
>>
>and what about backup???

Sperate drive. If 1T dies your screwed.

KenW

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:59:21 -0600, KenW <ken1943@invalid.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:38:19 -0400, Zaidy036 <Eric@Bloch.com> wrote:
>
>>On 6/14/2022 5:22 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>>>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>>>>
>>>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>>>
>>>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>>>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>>>
>>>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>>>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>>>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>>>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>>>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>>>
>>>> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>>>> I don't see.
>>>
>>> Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
>>> card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
>>> external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.
>>>
>>and what about backup???
>
>Sperate drive. If 1T dies your screwed.
>
>
>KenW

I wouldn't put anything important on an SD.

KenW

On 6/14/2022 5:38 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:
> On 6/14/2022 5:22 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor
>>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes with  256GB solid
>>> storage.
>>>
>>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>>
>>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>>
>>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters,
>>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>>
>>> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that
>>> I don't see.
>>
>> Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
>> card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
>> external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.
>>
> and what about backup???
OP I did not say but the computer I am looking at is a Laptop.
To answer the question of backup. The computer being consider for
replacement is used on a local lan with a desktop compuer with a 2TB
hard disk. It is back up automatically to an external 1TB hard Drive.
The laptop and desktop are synchronized so that both computer contain
the same information. So the our data is in three places 2 computers
adn the external drive.
So yes it is backed up. The one problem is that normally they are both
in the same house, but when We go away the Laptop goes with us.

Char Jackson wrote:

> I would not use an SD
> card as permanent storage.

Same here, they don't have the same wear levelling as proper SSDs.

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>>
>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>
>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>
>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>
>> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>> I don't see.
>
> Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
> card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
> external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.

I'd agree. I did this years ago when I had Macbook air with only 128GB. It
worked but was noticeably slow plus it was easy to accidentally knock it
and effect the connection. I only used for my music library, but I wouldn't
ever do it again.

For live files? never in a million years. You'll face the risk of corrupt
files all the time.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:41:16 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>>>
>>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>>
>>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>>
>>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>>
>>> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>>> I don't see.
>>
>> Workable? I'd reluctantly say yes, but personally I would not use an SD
>> card as permanent storage. I'd use an SSD or spinning drive, internal or
>> external, or just go with the 1TB option to get started.
>
> I'd agree. I did this years ago when I had Macbook air with only 128GB. It
> worked but was noticeably slow plus it was easy to accidentally knock it
> and effect the connection. I only used for my music library, but I wouldn't
> ever do it again.
>
> For live files? never in a million years. You'll face the risk of corrupt
> files all the time.
>

Also where are you seeing a 1TB SD card for less than $150? I certainly
wouldn't trust a super cheap SD card.

On 6/14/2022 4:41 PM, knuttle wrote:
>
> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes with  256GB solid storage.
>
> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out, and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>
> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters, spreadsheets, and images.
>
> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that I don't see.

The SD does not have as good characteristics as other media.

From worst to best:

Issues: Fraud, static wear leveling, dynamic wear leveling, service life, access speed

USB stick # Can wear out in a year of light usage. Lots of fraud on Ebay/Amazon for these.
SD # Many miserable offerings. Many expensive offerings. Not good value for money.

eMMC # Soldered storage to laptop motherboard, no repair option. Stupid engineers...
SSD # 500MB/sec over SATA III 2.5" form factor. Removable.
NVMe M.2 # 7000MB/sec over PCI express small four lane connector (MLC-like best, TLC, QLC are worse)
# Don't buy the fastest one. Buy the one with good flash on it. The TBW rating is an
# indicator of quality, such as the new Micron Enterprise Flash with ~6x more write cycles.

*******

HDD # 150MB/sec over SATA III, rotating platter and so on.
# The HDD does not need wear leveling, which is partially
# what the other table uses as a metric.

An example of the usage of Enterprise flash. Adata announced one before
TeamGroup, back in the middle of the Chia craze. This has a TBW of 12000,
whereas the NVMe I bought here is around 600 or so. That's part of the
reason they offer such a long warranty on the thing -- it's a bit
harder to wear them out.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/team-group-t-create-expert-2-tb/17.html

But your question immediately brings to mind, the suggestion by Microsoft
of making SSD usage mandatory on Windows 11 OEM computers. It should be
up to the manufacturer to decide what media is cheapest, so they can offer
the lowest cost machine. Microsoft should not be making these calls.

*******

Really, the answer to your question is:

How many storage interfaces does the machine have ?
Does it have sufficient for "two bays" ?
Like, if it had an NVMe slot and a SATA 2.5" bay,
that would be a nice combo.

If all it had was eMMC soldered to the motherboard and no other
storage except SD slot or USB stick, I would take such a product
out back and put it in the burn barrel. Equipment which has only
eMMC, and little in the way of repair prospects, is suited to
immediate landfill delivery.

If you indicate the make and model you are interested in, it
makes it easier to focus on the weaknesses. Like "a person would
have to be out of their freaking mind in 2022, to buy a machine
with 32GB eMMC". As an example of a too-small storage on a modern
computer. I'm sure somebody must still be doing this.

*******

I have bought OEM computers in the past. I always bought them
with removable items, then buy the smallest option possible,
and do my own expansion. Some Mac I bought, came with 256MB RAM,
which I replaced with 2GB of third party sticks. So if a computer
comes with "small storage" or "small RAM", as long as the form factor is
removable, I would shop around and see if the 1TB can be bought
from a third party for less than $150.

This is an example of an economy NVMe.

https://www.newegg.com/team-group-mp33-1tb/p/N82E16820331417

Team Group MP33 M.2 2280 1TB PCIe 3.0 x4 with
NVMe 1.3 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive $70

Terabyte Written 1TB / >600TB <=== 600 TBW (write end to end, 600 times)
1,800 MB/sec read
1,500 MB/sec write

This shows you what happens on NVMe drives having SLC cache concept (TLC flash chips).
This would be similar to the TeamGroup one, but shows you one of the side
effects of going cheap. It's not all that important in normal usage.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16505/the-western-digital-wd-black-sn850-ssd-review/4

By comparison, the difference on this one, is the write speed
is constant on long transfers. It does not slow down because
it does not use the SLC cache concept that the TLC ones use.
SLC cache concept is actually a *bad* idea. This one is "MLC-like"
and does one write cycle when you write it and not two write
cycles like an SLC cache one does. This really has no other
distinguishing features, other than consistent write speed.

https://www.newegg.com/samsung-970-pro-1tb/p/N82E16820147694

SAMSUNG 970 PRO M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen3. X4, NVMe 1.3 64L
V-NAND 2-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive $270

3,500 MB/sec read
2,700 MB/sec write (and does not slow down from SLC cache)

Warrantied TBW for 970 PRO:
600 TBW for 512GB model
1,200 TBW for 1TB model

So it also is rated for twice the writes (but hardly a reason
to pay $270 for it). The 980 has a better price.

https://www.newegg.com/samsung-1tb-980/p/N82E16820147804

The ones with the 12,000 TBW for a 1TB model, they seem to
come out in press releases, but never show up at retail. There
is some amount of deceptive advertising going on, trying to fool
you into thinking some piece of crap is good for 12,000 TBW.
These things (legit advertising copy) could be estimated as
anywhere from $400 a piece to $1200 a piece for 1TB. But if
I can never find an advert with legit advertising copy as
well as a price, we'll never know for sure what they want for them.
It's possible Chia Farmers were buying those direct from the
factory (similar to how some large purchasers were getting
NVidia video cards).

*******

One with Optane would be "best". I just noticed there's one
listed on Newegg. Small and expensive and the module is rather long.
This might not fit in all laptops (a 2280 might fit).

https://www.newegg.ca/intel-optane-ssd-905p-series-380gb/p/N82E16820167466

Intel Optane SSD 905P Series - M.2 22110 380GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4
3D XPoint Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - SSDPEL1D380GAX1 $941

That might be around 5000 TBW. The neat thing about Optane, is
it doesn't have flash pages. It's byte addressable. Which is
why the IOP rate can be quite high and quite believable. The controller
for it, does not have to work nearly as hard as it does on regular
flash. But Intel is getting out of that business, so it won't
be around for much longer. That drive might not be the best
for battery life. But it would kick ass in other respects.
And no, it would not slow down when written from end to end.

I don't think the 960GB version is available as NVMe. If it
was, the TBW is around ~17500 or so, or a bit better than the
vapor-ware Chia ones. The DC power to run a 960GB Optane, would
likely melt the solder on the NVMe stick :-) Optane is a bit
of a power pig on reads and writes. (The PCi Express card
version might have been 17W or so.)

And they are proposing, that the PCI Express revision 5 NVMe
modules (not here yet), will also be power pigs and not
all that practical in computers. There has been the appearance
of fanciful/silly heatsinks for them already (none suited
to laptops). Sooner or later, this madness has to stop
(higher frequencies draw more power).

*******

But that's just to give you some idea, of the span of product out there.
All the way from the cheesy bad, to the cheesy fast/bad :-)
And a few unobtanium thrown in for good measure.

Paul

On 6/14/22 16:41, this is what knuttle wrote:
>
> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes
> with  256GB solid storage.
>
> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out, and I am in not in a location to depend on
> online storage.
>
> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB SD card, that would be semi permanently
> installed in the computer. I would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the 256GB drive and use the
> 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters, spreadsheets, and images.
>
> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that I don't see.
I bought my current laptop with i7 cpu thinking it would be the best. I now would never put the money into an i7
again. i5 yes, i3 never.
I don't do any high end graphics or computational work that needs whatever an i7 can do. i5's would save you money.

If you want additional storage and have a CD drive you can lose, there are CD caddies that let you put a 2.5" hard drive
in them. I did that so I have a 512 MVMe drive with a 1 TB spinner. As much data as I can get, goes on the spinner.
The OS and programs on the NVMe.

Al

On 6/15/2022 10:10 AM, Big Al wrote:
>
> On 6/14/22 16:41, this is what knuttle wrote:
>>
>> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes with  256GB solid storage.
>>
>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>
>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out, and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>
>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters, spreadsheets, and images.
>>
>> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that I don't see.
> I bought my current laptop with i7 cpu thinking it would be the best.   I now would never put the money into an i7 again.  i5 yes, i3 never.
> I don't do any high end graphics or computational work that needs whatever an i7 can do.  i5's would save you money.
>
> If you want additional storage and have a CD drive you can lose, there are CD caddies
> that let you put a 2.5" hard drive in them.  I did that so I have a 512 MVMe drive with
> a 1 TB spinner.   As much data as I can get, goes on the spinner. The OS and programs on the NVMe.
>
> Al

Some of the ones with DVD bays are pretty close to EOL (10th gen).

One of the problems with laptop adverts, is they are downright dishonest
(don't declare storage properly). Or, they miss describing their best
feature. One customer-reviewer here, shows pictures of this one,
and it has a SATA 2.5" bay and an NVMe socket for a 2280. Only the
NVMe is occupied from the factory. The advertising copy completely
misses the fact it has room for a SATA SSD.

https://www.amazon.ca/Acer-Display-Graphics-Keyboard-A515-43-R19L/dp/B07RF1XD36

And going to the "computer store" to shop, is just as disappointing. I was
standing in line, waiting to pay for one item, and a couple came in and
the lady "wanted laptop with 17 inch screen". And of course the laptop
table has only weenie laptops for the people with 20/10 vision. Life is
so full of disappointments. I wanted to scream out "for the love of God lady,
go to the Eurocom and see how they make laptops". Because at least there,
you won't be seeing weenie ones.

https://eurocom.com/ec/configure%282,452,0%29TornadoF7W

five physical drives: 3x M.2 NVMe PCIe x4
2x 2.5" SATA3

Even has an icecube maker.

No, nothing there is cheap. And some of the designs are borderline silly.
That one has a 4K screen option, at 17 inches. You'll have to buy a
book about HiDPI to be able to use that.

Paul

On 2022-06-14 22:41, knuttle wrote:
>
> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor
> 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes with  256GB solid storage.
>
> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>
> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters,
> spreadsheets, and images.
>
> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that
> I don't see.

Problem is, flash cards/sticks are not very reliable, specially if used
"normally", meaning as a normal disk. They are intended for copying (or
writing) files over, not working on them.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 6/15/22 12:11, this is what Paul wrote:
> On 6/15/2022 10:10 AM, Big Al wrote:
>>
>> On 6/14/22 16:41, this is what knuttle wrote:
>>>
>>> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes
>>> with  256GB solid storage.
>>>
>>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>>
>>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out, and I am in not in a location to depend on
>>> online storage.
>>>
>>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB SD card, that would be semi permanently
>>> installed in the computer. I would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the 256GB drive and use
>>> the 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters, spreadsheets, and images.
>>>
>>> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that I don't see.
>> I bought my current laptop with i7 cpu thinking it would be the best.   I now would never put the money into an i7
>> again.  i5 yes, i3 never.
>> I don't do any high end graphics or computational work that needs whatever an i7 can do.  i5's would save you money.
>>
>> If you want additional storage and have a CD drive you can lose, there are CD caddies that let you put a 2.5" hard
>> drive in them.  I did that so I have a 512 MVMe drive with
>> a 1 TB spinner.   As much data as I can get, goes on the spinner. The OS and programs on the NVMe.
>>
>> Al
>
> Some of the ones with DVD bays are pretty close to EOL (10th gen).
>
> One of the problems with laptop adverts, is they are downright dishonest
> (don't declare storage properly). Or, they miss describing their best
> feature. One customer-reviewer here, shows pictures of this one,
> and it has a SATA 2.5" bay and an NVMe socket for a 2280. Only the
> NVMe is occupied from the factory. The advertising copy completely
> misses the fact it has room for a SATA SSD.
>
>    https://www.amazon.ca/Acer-Display-Graphics-Keyboard-A515-43-R19L/dp/B07RF1XD36
>
> And going to the "computer store" to shop, is just as disappointing. I was
> standing in line, waiting to pay for one item, and a couple came in and
> the lady "wanted laptop with 17 inch screen". And of course the laptop
> table has only weenie laptops for the people with 20/10 vision. Life is
> so full of disappointments. I wanted to scream out "for the love of God lady,
> go to the Eurocom and see how they make laptops". Because at least there,
> you won't be seeing weenie ones.
>
>    https://eurocom.com/ec/configure%282,452,0%29TornadoF7W
>
>        five physical drives:  3x M.2 NVMe PCIe x4
>                               2x 2.5" SATA3
>
> Even has an icecube maker.
>
> No, nothing there is cheap. And some of the designs are borderline silly.
> That one has a 4K screen option, at 17 inches. You'll have to buy a
> book about HiDPI to be able to use that.
>
>    Paul
Good God, that laptop has so many drives. I guess it's not super thin huh?!!! LOL

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 14 Jun 2022 21:57:37 -0400, knuttle
<keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Y2FsIGxhbiB3aXRoIGEgZGVza3RvcCBjb21wdWVyIHdpdGggYSAyVEIg
>DQpoYXJkIGRpc2suICAgSXQgaXMgYmFjayB1cCBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IHRvIGFuIGV4dGVy
>bmFsIDFUQiBoYXJkIERyaXZlLg0KDQpUaGUgbGFwdG9wIGFuZCBkZXNrdG9wIGFyZSBzeW5j
>aHJvbml6ZWQgc28gdGhhdCBib3RoIGNvbXB1dGVyIGNvbnRhaW4gDQp0

Are you sure?

On 6/15/2022 10:13 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 14 Jun 2022 21:57:37 -0400, knuttle
> <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Y2FsIGxhbiB3aXRoIGEgZGVza3RvcCBjb21wdWVyIHdpdGggYSAyVEIg
>> DQpoYXJkIGRpc2suICAgSXQgaXMgYmFjayB1cCBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IHRvIGFuIGV4dGVy
>> bmFsIDFUQiBoYXJkIERyaXZlLg0KDQpUaGUgbGFwdG9wIGFuZCBkZXNrdG9wIGFyZSBzeW5j
>> aHJvbml6ZWQgc28gdGhhdCBib3RoIGNvbXB1dGVyIGNvbnRhaW4gDQp0
>
> Are you sure?
>

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct8beag%24p9m%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

Oh, my! My eyes.

Base64 is quite a normal choice for attachments.

But those two lines together like that, asking for 8 bit
transparency, then using base64 encoding of the message body,
is an "unusual" combination of choices. If I was Keith, I'd look
into that if that was not intentional.

For comparison, this is my message in the same thread. There does
not happen to be any content needing UTF-8 particularly. I'm sure
there would be clients that would trip over my choice, but the
content happens to have nothing to trigger a disaster.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct8c5e2%24rpb%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

But we can try and trigger trouble, by injecting something unusual.
Maybe an old version of Forte will trip over this. Feed the <MID>
into Howard and see what it really looks like. It's possible
my client will encode this, rather than just carry it raw.

èèèèààà 💁👌🎍😍

http://al.howardknight.net/

Paul

On 6/15/2022 4:26 PM, Big Al wrote:

> Good God, that laptop has so many drives.   I guess it's not super thin huh?!!! LOL

That laptop is big enough to have its own area code.

Paul

knuttle wrote:
>
> I am looking at a new computer.  The one I like with an i7 processor
> 16GB of ram is a little over $600.    It comes with  256GB solid storage.
>
> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>
> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage.  Letters,
> spreadsheets, and images.
>
> Is this a workable option?   Or would it cause a performance fault that
> I don't see.
Your much better off with the 1TB option than an SD card or if the
opting on the 256 GB SSD then a separate 1TB internal SSD or HD.

While SD cards based on specs, reviews, and commentary(here and
elsewhere) are not as long term reliable or recommended(by most)....
...I've a in a ancient Surface 3 with a 128 GB SSD(as-built). The SD
slot has a Samsung 128 GB EVO Class 3 SDXC card. That card is the data
card for Office files, iTunes, pictures, progams and drivers - it's been
in use for 7 yrs without any issues. That devices SSD and SD card is
routinely imaged(the SSD) and backed up(SD card) to an external 2TB WD
Passport.
i.e. lacking an option or desire for a large SSD at the time of
purchase(2015) the choice of an SD card as the data drive has worked
without any problems for those 7 yrs.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>
> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>
> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>
> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
> spreadsheets, and images.
>
> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
> I don't see.

I don't understand. Wouldn't a - good quality, reasonably fast - 1TB
SD card also be about 150 dollars (US, I presume) or even more? Or do
you need more than 1TB total (256GB SSD + 1TB SD card = 1.25TB)?

If 1TB total is enough, I would go with the "1TB option" at ~$150.
(Which I think is a good deal, assuming it's a good SSD.)

That said, like Winston, I've had good experience with SD cards, which
partly or mostly, get rewritten at least once a day and are working fine
after many, many years. BUT, my SD card is - for today's standards -
small, only 4GB, AND, even more than for normal HDDs/SSDs, make sure you
have good backup.

On 6/16/2022 2:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am looking at a new computer. The one I like with an i7 processor
>> 16GB of ram is a little over $600. It comes with 256GB solid storage.
>>
>> To go with the 1TB option, the cost increases by about $150 dollars.
>>
>> The content of my current computer is greater the 256GB so that is out,
>> and I am in not in a location to depend on online storage.
>>
>> One option I am looking at is go wit 256GB in the computer and buy a 1TB
>> SD card, that would be semi permanently installed in the computer. I
>> would put the programs, ie browsers, mail, office suite etc, on the
>> 256GB drive and use the 1TB SD card for data storage. Letters,
>> spreadsheets, and images.
>>
>> Is this a workable option? Or would it cause a performance fault that
>> I don't see.
>
> I don't understand. Wouldn't a - good quality, reasonably fast - 1TB
> SD card also be about 150 dollars (US, I presume) or even more? Or do
> you need more than 1TB total (256GB SSD + 1TB SD card = 1.25TB)?
>
> If 1TB total is enough, I would go with the "1TB option" at ~$150.
> (Which I think is a good deal, assuming it's a good SSD.)
>
> That said, like Winston, I've had good experience with SD cards, which
> partly or mostly, get rewritten at least once a day and are working fine
> after many, many years. BUT, my SD card is - for today's standards -
> small, only 4GB, AND, even more than for normal HDDs/SSDs, make sure you
> have good backup.
>

Which means your 4GB is SLC or MLC based. Of course it's going to work.
SLC and MLC accept a lot more write cycles, because the
noise margin in the cell is larger.

A 1TB SD would be TLC or QLC. With the level of fraud at that
device size, Amazon and Ebay await your funds :-)

Let's compare some options:

https://www.newegg.com/sandisk-1tb-secure-digital-extended-capacity/p/N82E16820173409

SanDisk Extreme Pro 1TB SDXC UHS-I/U3 V30 Memory Card, $225
Speed Up to 170MB/s (SDSDXXY-1T00-GN4IN) <=== laptop interface won't support this

https://www.newegg.com/samsung-2tb-870-evo-series/p/N82E16820147794

SAMSUNG 870 EVO Series 2.5" 2TB SATA III V-NAND $200 Twice the storage
Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-77E2T0B/AM

Max Sequential Read Up to 560 MBps \____ Expect about 400MB/sec or so... More than 2x the speed.
Max Sequential Write Up to 530 MBps /
TBW 1200TBW 600 writes of end-to-end 2TB of locations

I set the selector to sold and shipped by Newegg, to avoid the bazaar sellers.

The largest reasonably-available SATA SSD is 8TB in size, 2.5" drive.
But it's not cheap. And it may slow down when you do large file transfers.
Some of the smaller drives may be more consistent.

Try to find review articles for flash storage devices, so you have
some idea what shortcomings a given model has got.

Paul

On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 at 04:32:02, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
[]
>But your question immediately brings to mind, the suggestion by Microsoft
>of making SSD usage mandatory on Windows 11 OEM computers. It should be
>up to the manufacturer to decide what media is cheapest, so they can offer
>the lowest cost machine. Microsoft should not be making these calls.
[]
My concern with SSDs (SATA or NVMe) is that software writers -
third-party, OS (Microsoft), or web page programers - will just (ab)use
their greater speed to allow sloppier and more bloated software, so
we're back where we were before the speed increase. (And their
read/write wear will be great because of that.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Q. How much is 2 + 2?
A. Thank you so much for asking your question.
Are you still having this problem? I'll be delighted to help you. Please
restate the problem twice and include your Windows version along with
all error logs.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-1