On 25/02/2022 00:52, PW wrote:
> I just read a review at PC Gamer:
>
> "Elden Ring echoes some of the best fights in the series with towering
> bosses and groups of enemies that force you to make snap judgments
> about which to prioritize, but it also echoes some of the worst,
> giving its late-game enemies and bosses so much health that beating
> them can be laborious instead of fun."
>
> I think I will pass ;-)
>

Well the reviews on Steam are rather mixed and the main issue seems to
be performance. Good old PC Gamer though, they touch on these issues but
give it a 90 anyway.

On 25/02/2022 17:32, PW wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 09:24:09 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2022 00:52, PW wrote:
>>> I just read a review at PC Gamer:
>>>
>>> "Elden Ring echoes some of the best fights in the series with towering
>>> bosses and groups of enemies that force you to make snap judgments
>>> about which to prioritize, but it also echoes some of the worst,
>>> giving its late-game enemies and bosses so much health that beating
>>> them can be laborious instead of fun."
>>>
>>> I think I will pass ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Well the reviews on Steam are rather mixed and the main issue seems to
>> be performance. Good old PC Gamer though, they touch on these issues but
>> give it a 90 anyway.
>
> *--
>
> That is so true of them!! They seem to do it all the time. I can't
> rememberthe other titles they did the same thing with, right now.
>
> But they did give God of War a 90 and I think it deserves higher than
> that :-) Nah, maybe no game does.
>

Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4

>Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4

I sat through this video, and immediately was rolling my eyes at his
rabid dog style of speaking. The entire video is ranting about controller
vs keyboard. It is very common for ports to get confused between the two,
all he had to do was disable or unplug the controller to stop this behavior;
but no, his job is making money off videos and begging for patreon
donations, and trashing the latest AAA game is reliable click bait.

For myself, I also have an xbox controller, and knew I would be using it.
All button prompts matched the layout, and I had no issues. His complaints
about mouse acceleration are a joke, there is an acceleration slider and any
modern mouse has speed settings as well. I started playing the 26th after
the latest small patch, and 1440p max settings are smooth and it looks great
(a high-end 5900X+3080 & SSD). It is very hard, and 'helpful tips' are
either only shown once or *not at all*, and the player must either take
notes or explore, try things, or ask others, or look for guides: But all of
these are part and parcel of Souls games, I probably put more time into
reading Dark Souls 1 lore wiki pages than playing the game, and got
enjoyment from both.

rms

And I'll add a 'tip' related to this video: "settings sound and display
tab and then Device for on screen prompts, set it to PC for keyboard key
prompts"

rms

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:48:56 -0700, "rms"
<rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:

>>Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4
>
> I sat through this video, and immediately was rolling my eyes at his
>rabid dog style of speaking.

I did not sit through the video but I did read some of the comments. I
thought the current top comment was amusing. -->

"It's ridiculous that the best time to buy a PC game is actually more
like 3-5 years after release once it's already been patched, modded,
all the DLC that the content was carved up into is out & you can pick
up a 'complete edition' at a 50%+ discount"

On 2/27/2022 9:33 AM, rms wrote:
>  And I'll add a 'tip' related to this video:  "settings sound and
> display tab and then Device for on screen prompts, set it to PC for
> keyboard key prompts"
>
This tip brought to you by the letters, D, U and H. :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 2/27/2022 10:51 AM, Mike S. wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:48:56 -0700, "rms"
> <rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:
>
>>> Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4
>>
>> I sat through this video, and immediately was rolling my eyes at his
>> rabid dog style of speaking.
>
> I did not sit through the video but I did read some of the comments. I
> thought the current top comment was amusing. -->
>
> "It's ridiculous that the best time to buy a PC game is actually more
> like 3-5 years after release once it's already been patched, modded,
> all the DLC that the content was carved up into is out & you can pick
> up a 'complete edition' at a 50%+ discount"

It helps to realize that everything before that point is Beta Testing.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 27/02/2022 21:52, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 2/27/2022 10:51 AM, Mike S. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:48:56 -0700, "rms"
>> <rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4
>>>
>>>    I sat through this video, and immediately was rolling my eyes at his
>>> rabid dog style of speaking.
>>
>> I did not sit through the video but I did read some of the comments. I
>> thought the current top comment was amusing. -->
>>
>> "It's ridiculous that the best time to buy a PC game is actually more
>> like 3-5 years after release once it's already been patched, modded,
>> all the DLC that the content was carved up into is out & you can pick
>> up a 'complete edition' at a 50%+ discount"
>
> It helps to realize that everything before that point is Beta Testing.
>

Looking at the reviews on Steam it seems at the core of the negative
reviews is not the gameplay but instead that the PC version feels a bit,
let's say, half-hearted in its implementation and in particular
performance issues.

I'm ok with the idea that on release a game will have bugs but this one
seems to cross the line into an unfinished project.

On 27/02/2022 16:48, rms wrote:
>
>> Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4
>
>   I sat through this video, and immediately was rolling my eyes at his
> rabid dog style of speaking.

To pick up on that one, I'm used to accents like that. Indeed there's a
few accents in the UK that it's almost impossible not to sound angry all
the time!

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 08:57:50 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>I'm ok with the idea that on release a game will have bugs but this one
>seems to cross the line into an unfinished project.

<ramble>

It makes me wish that console manufacturers were a bit more strict
with their licensing requirements, specifically with regards to
fit-for-purchase requirements. Microsoft and Sony could very well
limit how many patches are allowed per game, or have a scaling cost
per patch that publishers would have to pay (e.g., $100,000 for first
patch, $200,000 for second, etc.). While this would certainly mean
some games never get fixed, it would also mean that far more games
would release in a playable state rather than requiring day-1 patches
just to work, as is now the norm. Such a move wouldn't directly help
PC games (unless Valve enforced a similar policy) but would indirectly
help by raising the standards for what is acceptable for a released
game.

Of course, there are disadvantages. For instance, smaller developers
would be priced out of the business. It would make crunch worse for
the programmers too, since it raises the requirement of developments
but publishers are unlikely to take this into account when setting
their release schedules. There's also the problem of multiplayer
games, which almost by their nature require more maintenance. But many
of those problems could be worked around. That such things aren't
being consider is solely to benefit the publishers, not the customer.

Of course the cost would ultimately be passed on to customers, which
is ultimately the deal-killer. As a society we're so singularly
focused on cost that we're quite willing to buy shit products - well
knowing they won't work - just because they're a little cheaper. So I
know it will never happen; we're doomed to ever-more buggy day-one
releases that, if we're Very Good Boys And Girls(tm), just may receive
a fix down the line.

But as I've said before, I'm not too worried about it. I'm becoming
increasingly disinterested in newer games because of business
practices like this and am well satisfied with my large library of
legacy titles. And if I do add something new, publishers shouldn't be
surprised if I wait until the price is rock-bottom; I know the value
of their goods.
</ramble>

On 2/28/2022 9:34 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> Of course, there are disadvantages. For instance, smaller developers
> would be priced out of the business. It would make crunch worse for
> the programmers too, since it raises the requirement of developments
> but publishers are unlikely to take this into account when setting
> their release schedules. There's also the problem of multiplayer
> games, which almost by their nature require more maintenance. But many
> of those problems could be worked around. That such things aren't
> being consider is solely to benefit the publishers, not the customer.
>
Regarding release schedules my understanding is that the worst of the
bug-ridden releases aren't because the original schedule was too short
but because the publisher moves the release up. Usually to "tomorrow"
or some time not long after that. So the bugs may have been dealt with
prior to the original release date but the "must make this quarter look
better" management takes the time to do that away.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 2/28/2022 9:34 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> >
> > Of course, there are disadvantages. For instance, smaller developers
> > would be priced out of the business. It would make crunch worse for
> > the programmers too, since it raises the requirement of developments
> > but publishers are unlikely to take this into account when setting
> > their release schedules. There's also the problem of multiplayer
> > games, which almost by their nature require more maintenance. But many
> > of those problems could be worked around. That such things aren't
> > being consider is solely to benefit the publishers, not the customer.
> >
> Regarding release schedules my understanding is that the worst of the
> bug-ridden releases aren't because the original schedule was too short
> but because the publisher moves the release up. Usually to "tomorrow"
> or some time not long after that. So the bugs may have been dealt with
> prior to the original release date but the "must make this quarter look
> better" management takes the time to do that away.

Yep, it's annoying. I hate the forced releases. Same for new versions
with fixes. I miss the old days when developers only released fixes and
not new features. :(

--
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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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( )

On 01/03/2022 04:45, PW wrote:
> Sony did something right. I read a review of God of War and it said
> it is the best version of all.

Unlike their handling of Horizon Forbidden West and its interesting
pricing policy.

On 28/02/2022 17:34, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 08:57:50 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
{snip]

> Of course the cost would ultimately be passed on to customers, which
> is ultimately the deal-killer. As a society we're so singularly
> focused on cost that we're quite willing to buy shit products - well
> knowing they won't work - just because they're a little cheaper. So I
> know it will never happen; we're doomed to ever-more buggy day-one
> releases that, if we're Very Good Boys And Girls(tm), just may receive
> a fix down the line.
>

I just don't do that any more after a few times of thinking heh that's
cheap, what a great deal. If something is to cheap to be true then
there's going to be a reason for it. Probably the exception I make is
for products that are so functionally basic that it's difficult to see
how anything can go wrong with them.

It's one of the things I disliked about eating out in the US. I'd rather
have less, or more expensive, food that I enjoyed eating than more, or
cheaper, food that just managed to be palatable. It's not that we don't
have places like that in the UK (Wetherspoons springs to mind as a prime
example) but it doesn't seem quite so prevalent as my experience in the US.

> But as I've said before, I'm not too worried about it. I'm becoming
> increasingly disinterested in newer games because of business
> practices like this and am well satisfied with my large library of
> legacy titles. And if I do add something new, publishers shouldn't be
> surprised if I wait until the price is rock-bottom; I know the value
> of their goods.
>

That's pretty much the position I'm in but in with respect to the big
titles only. I do buy games on release but they tend to be from smaller
devs. Someone has to pay their wages and I don't mind it being me if
they are producing enjoyable games.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 8:48:59 AM UTC-8, rms wrote:
> >Well here's a somewhat less than positive review.
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eNaEmAtZ4
> I sat through this video, and immediately was rolling my eyes at his
> rabid dog style of speaking. The entire video is ranting about controller
> vs keyboard. It is very common for ports to get confused between the two,
> all he had to do was disable or unplug the controller to stop this behavior;
> but no, his job is making money off videos and begging for patreon
> donations, and trashing the latest AAA game is reliable click bait.
>
> For myself, I also have an xbox controller, and knew I would be using it.
> All button prompts matched the layout, and I had no issues. His complaints
> about mouse acceleration are a joke, there is an acceleration slider and any
> modern mouse has speed settings as well. I started playing the 26th after
> the latest small patch, and 1440p max settings are smooth and it looks great
> (a high-end 5900X+3080 & SSD). It is very hard, and 'helpful tips' are
> either only shown once or *not at all*, and the player must either take
> notes or explore, try things, or ask others, or look for guides: But all of
> these are part and parcel of Souls games, I probably put more time into
> reading Dark Souls 1 lore wiki pages than playing the game, and got
> enjoyment from both.

I'm extremely interested, but I keep hearing about stuttering that can't be fixed
but probably will be with a patch. As well as other general issues that are
chalked up to being a bad/lazy console port, that again will probably be
eventually patched. Being a bad console port that's eventually patched
being the maker's typical MO.

Also my VC probably isn't up to it unless I don't mind playing in 720p and
looking like the game's having a seizure, and VC prices still being out of
what I'm comfortable paying for.

On the other hand multiplayer games tend to be best closer to release,
though I've enjoyed all 3 of the DS games very long after release.

I'm also semi- boycotting as they shut down all the servers for all the DS
games right before this release, and my cynical side says they did it
deliberately to try to get people who really wanted to play DS to buy
the new game, and have no intention of even looking at the issue
until ER is in good working order, if then.

- Justisaur