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computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: Financial inversion?

SubjectAuthor
* Financial inversion?gareth evans
+* Re: Financial inversion?yeti
|+* Re: Financial inversion?gareth evans
||`- Re: Financial inversion?yeti
|`- Re: Financial inversion?A. Dumas
+* Re: Financial inversion?A. Dumas
|`* Re: Financial inversion?gareth evans
| `* Re: Financial inversion?A. Dumas
|  `* Re: Financial inversion?druck
|   `* Re: Financial inversion?The Natural Philosopher
|    `* Re: Financial inversion?gareth evans
|     +* Re: Financial inversion?Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|     |`- Re: Financial inversion?Michael J. Mahon
|     +- Re: Financial inversion?A. Dumas
|     +- Re: Financial inversion?The Natural Philosopher
|     `- Re: Financial inversion?scott
+- Re: Financial inversion?nev young
`* Re: Financial inversion?Ahem A Rivet's Shot
 `* Re: Financial inversion?Charlie Gibbs
  `- Re: Financial inversion?The Natural Philosopher

1
Financial inversion?

<u4qbkq$3qh$1@dont-email.me>

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From: headston...@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Financial inversion?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 14:19:21 +0100
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 by: gareth evans - Fri, 26 May 2023 13:19 UTC

In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K

but now

starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.

Re: Financial inversion?

<87zg5rjkcm.fsf@tilde.institute>

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From: yet...@tilde.institute (yeti)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 13:25:13 +0000
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 by: yeti - Fri, 26 May 2023 13:25 UTC

But the PiPiCo isn't even able to run her own C compiler!
It is far less useful than the PDP was back then.

--
Take Back Control! -- Mesh The Planet!
Do you GNUS too? -- Stop worrying about spam and start to score.

Re: Financial inversion?

<u4qdnf$ag1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: headston...@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 14:54:53 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <87zg5rjkcm.fsf@tilde.institute>
 by: gareth evans - Fri, 26 May 2023 13:54 UTC

On 26/05/2023 14:25, yeti wrote:
> But the PiPiCo isn't even able to run her own C compiler!
> It is far less useful than the PDP was back then.
>

C did not exist in 1972

But are you sure about that, for I did have the
Zorland C compiler that ran under MSDOS?

Re: Financial inversion?

<u4qe8m$ars$1@dont-email.me>

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From: alexan...@dumas.fr.invalid (A. Dumas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 16:04:06 +0200
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 by: A. Dumas - Fri, 26 May 2023 14:04 UTC

On 26-05-2023 15:19, gareth evans wrote:
> In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
> and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
> was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K
>
> but now
>
> starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
> or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.

This doesn't affect your salary to processing power comparison but the
starting salary has "only" doubled: £1320 in 1972 is £14,585.20 now,
according to
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

Re: Financial inversion?

<u4qeiq$aqu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: alexan...@dumas.fr.invalid (A. Dumas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 16:09:30 +0200
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In-Reply-To: <87zg5rjkcm.fsf@tilde.institute>
 by: A. Dumas - Fri, 26 May 2023 14:09 UTC

On 26-05-2023 15:25, yeti wrote:
> But the PiPiCo isn't even able to run her own C compiler!
> It is far less useful than the PDP was back then.
>

But what is "her own C compiler"? It can certainly run *a* C compiler,
even in a shell, with a file system and vi:
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=336843

Re: Financial inversion?

<87pm6njhrv.fsf@tilde.institute>

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From: yet...@tilde.institute (yeti)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
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 by: yeti - Fri, 26 May 2023 14:20 UTC

Ask Wiki-Peter:

C was originally developed at Bell Labs by Ritchie between 1972 and
1973.

(But I mentioned C in the sentence with the PiPiCo...)

--
Take Back Control! -- Mesh The Planet!
Do you GNUS too? -- Stop worrying about spam and start to score.

Re: Financial inversion?

<u4r89t$3f3n$2@dont-email.me>

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From: headston...@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 22:28:28 +0100
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 by: gareth evans - Fri, 26 May 2023 21:28 UTC

On 26/05/2023 15:04, A. Dumas wrote:
> On 26-05-2023 15:19, gareth evans wrote:
>> In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
>> and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
>> was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K
>>
>> but now
>>
>> starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
>> or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.
>
> This doesn't affect your salary to processing power comparison but the
> starting salary has "only" doubled: £1320 in 1972 is £14,585.20 now,
> according to
> https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
>
>

Yes, the one aspect of the Labour Party in government that affects all
of us is that a pound is now only worth a shilling.

Re: Financial inversion?

<u4shcf$bnvt$1@dont-email.me>

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From: alexan...@dumas.fr.invalid (A. Dumas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 11:09:35 +0200
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 by: A. Dumas - Sat, 27 May 2023 09:09 UTC

On 26-05-2023 23:28, gareth evans wrote:
> Yes, the one aspect of the Labour Party in government that affects all
> of us is that a pound is now only worth a shilling.

Tory scum moron,

Those numbers mostly just follow international trends. Labour and Tory
both did sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse than the
EU/USA/World: https://i.imgur.com/dD65VU9.png

From https://www.worlddata.info/europe/united-kingdom/inflation-rates.php

Re: Financial inversion?

<u4v3e2$pma0$2@dont-email.me>

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From: newsforp...@yahoo.co.uk (nev young)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 09:29:54 +0100
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 by: nev young - Sun, 28 May 2023 08:29 UTC

On 26/05/2023 14:19, gareth evans wrote:
> In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
> and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
> was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K
>
> but now
>
> starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
> or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.
>
That's the greasy slope of inflation.
Tell me Moore, Tell me Moore.

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

Re: Financial inversion?

<20230528124443.79b8d13caf4021cc98c4679c@eircom.net>

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 12:44:43 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Sun, 28 May 2023 11:44 UTC

On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:19:21 +0100
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
> and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
> was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K
>
> but now
>
> starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
> or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.

Now if only we could achieve a thousandth of that reduction in the
costs of food and energy production.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: Financial inversion?

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From: cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
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 by: Charlie Gibbs - Sun, 28 May 2023 17:57 UTC

On 2023-05-28, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:19:21 +0100
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
>> and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
>> was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K
>>
>> but now
>>
>> starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
>> or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.
>
> Now if only we could achieve a thousandth of that reduction in the
> costs of food and energy production.

And, better still, pass some of that reduction along to consumers
rather than giving it all to shareholders of the distribution companies.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

Re: Financial inversion?

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 19:09:45 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 28 May 2023 18:09 UTC

On 28/05/2023 18:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-05-28, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:19:21 +0100
>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In 1972 as a raw graduate my starting salary was £1320 pa
>>> and a bare bones PDP11/20 (with no I/O periphals)
>>> was over £5K, ISTR nearer £10K
>>>
>>> but now
>>>
>>> starting salaries are £30K+ pa and the equivalent,
>>> or better, processing power in a RPi Pico is £5.
>>
>> Now if only we could achieve a thousandth of that reduction in the
>> costs of food and energy production.
>
> And, better still, pass some of that reduction along to consumers
> rather than giving it all to shareholders of the distribution companies.
>
I made slightly more money on my Shell shares than I lost due to
exaggerated oil and electricity prices.

--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

Re: Financial inversion?

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From: new...@druck.org.uk (druck)
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Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:31:34 +0100
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 by: druck - Tue, 30 May 2023 20:31 UTC

On 27/05/2023 10:09, A. Dumas wrote:
> On 26-05-2023 23:28, gareth evans wrote:
>> Yes, the one aspect of the Labour Party in government that affects all
>> of us is that a pound is now only worth a shilling.
>
> Tory scum moron,

None of that here, thank you.

---druck

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 10:03:24 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 31 May 2023 09:03 UTC

On 30/05/2023 21:31, druck wrote:
> On 27/05/2023 10:09, A. Dumas wrote:
>> On 26-05-2023 23:28, gareth evans wrote:
>>> Yes, the one aspect of the Labour Party in government that affects all
>>> of us is that a pound is now only worth a shilling.
>>
>> Tory scum moron,
>
> None of that here, thank you.
>
> ---druck
>
The chief function of Marxism, and by definition the Labour party, is to
teach people how to feel justified in indulging in their most negative
emotions 'because They Really Are Doing It to You'.

The real scum are the Angela Rayners of this world. But like the
intellectual children that they are, we forgive them because they "know
not what they do".

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

Re: Financial inversion?

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From: headston...@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
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 by: gareth evans - Wed, 31 May 2023 10:14 UTC

On 31/05/2023 10:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
> The chief function of Marxism, and by definition the Labour party, is to
> teach people how to feel justified in indulging in their most negative
> emotions 'because They Really Are Doing It to You'.

The best way to improve the lot of the untermensch, untouchables,
working class and hoi polloi is for developmental entrepreneurs to
be the leaders and to
feather their own nests by improving the lot of the human race in
general.

Kings queens, lords, ladies and their ilk are not such leaders but
are destructive parasites.

The socialists get it wrong by dragging everybody down.

Re: Financial inversion?

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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Wed, 31 May 2023 10:59 UTC

On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:14:32 +0100
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The best way to improve the lot of the untermensch, untouchables,
> working class and hoi polloi is for developmental entrepreneurs to
> be the leaders and to
> feather their own nests by improving the lot of the human race in
> general.
>
> Kings queens, lords, ladies and their ilk are not such leaders but
> are destructive parasites.

I have listened to more than one member of the British aristocracy
make almost word for word that argument with nobility where you have
"developmental entrepreneurs". It is the standard justification for the
existence of a privileged group, no matter who is in that group.

I don't believe there has ever been a society without a privileged
group so they're probably something we have to accept.

A quick look at history will reveal that the privileged group has
always been split between parasites and benefactors the former being the
price we pay for the existence of the latter. A useful contribution would
be a way to influence the ratio and encourage benefactors. I don't know of
one but using heredity as the entry mechanism certainly wasn't one.

The currently popular one is of course the ability to amass money,
it seems like it ought to be better but there are so many unproductive ways
to amass money.

> The socialists get it wrong by dragging everybody down.

The important thing IMHO is to restrain the excesses at both ends,
we can as easily afford cushions at the bottom as we can feathers at the
top.

Anyone can be unlucky enough to wind up at the bottom no matter
how able. Some can never find a way up some give up trying, we can afford to
be gentle to them and we should because there's one thing the Christians got
right "There but for the grace of god go I". Replace "the grace of god"
with "a bit of luck" if you prefer it's still true.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

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From: alexan...@dumas.fr.invalid (A. Dumas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
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 by: A. Dumas - Wed, 31 May 2023 11:30 UTC

On 31-05-2023 12:14, gareth evans wrote:
> the lot of the untermensch

Ah, it's worse than I thought.

Re: Financial inversion?

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
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Subject: Re: Financial inversion?
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 31 May 2023 12:31 UTC

On 31/05/2023 11:14, gareth evans wrote:
> On 31/05/2023 10:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>> The chief function of Marxism, and by definition the Labour party, is to
>> teach people how to feel justified in indulging in their most negative
>> emotions 'because They Really Are Doing It to You'.
>
> The best way to improve the lot of the untermensch, untouchables,
> working class and hoi polloi is for developmental entrepreneurs to
> be the leaders and to
> feather their own nests by improving the lot of the human race in
> general.
>
Not sure that that always works, especially in a post modern society

> Kings queens, lords, ladies and their ilk are not such leaders but
> are destructive parasites.
>
I am more sanguine. In England if you visit an ex royal Tudor residence,
once you see the lack of central heating, and the shit down a pipe to
the outside en suite toilets., you realise that they were in fact the
pioneers of the affluent lifetstyle. They set the example of what it
meant to 'live like a king' and by an large today we all do.

> The socialists get it wrong by dragging everybody down.
>
Socialists always get everything wrong. They get carried away by
adherence to faux principles and impossible ideals.

The utterly stupid idea that we are all the same, and everyone should
e.g. receive the same education and pay levels, regardless of aptitude
and competence, would, taken to its ultimate conclusion, have deaf dumb
and blind idiots doing brain surgery

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

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 by: sco...@alfter.diespammersdie.us - Wed, 31 May 2023 23:32 UTC

gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 31/05/2023 10:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>> The chief function of Marxism, and by definition the Labour party, is to
>> teach people how to feel justified in indulging in their most negative
>> emotions 'because They Really Are Doing It to You'.
>
> The best way to improve the lot of the untermensch, untouchables,
> working class and hoi polloi is for developmental entrepreneurs to
> be the leaders and to
> feather their own nests by improving the lot of the human race in
> general.
>
> Kings queens, lords, ladies and their ilk are not such leaders but
> are destructive parasites.
>
> The socialists get it wrong by dragging everybody down.

Dragging everybody down is about all that socialists can do. Winston
Churchill said it better than anybody:

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy."

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

"I do not at all wonder that British youth is in revolt against the morbid
doctrine that nothing matters but the equal sharing of miseries, that what
used to be called the 'submerged tenth' can only be rescued by bringing the
other nine-tenths down to their level...”

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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From: mjma...@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon)
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Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2023 19:34:47 +0000
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 by: Michael J. Mahon - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 19:34 UTC

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:14:32 +0100
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> The best way to improve the lot of the untermensch, untouchables,
>> working class and hoi polloi is for developmental entrepreneurs to
>> be the leaders and to
>> feather their own nests by improving the lot of the human race in
>> general.
>>
>> Kings queens, lords, ladies and their ilk are not such leaders but
>> are destructive parasites.
>
> I have listened to more than one member of the British aristocracy
> make almost word for word that argument with nobility where you have
> "developmental entrepreneurs". It is the standard justification for the
> existence of a privileged group, no matter who is in that group.
>
> I don't believe there has ever been a society without a privileged
> group so they're probably something we have to accept.
>
> A quick look at history will reveal that the privileged group has
> always been split between parasites and benefactors the former being the
> price we pay for the existence of the latter. A useful contribution would
> be a way to influence the ratio and encourage benefactors. I don't know of
> one but using heredity as the entry mechanism certainly wasn't one.
>
> The currently popular one is of course the ability to amass money,
> it seems like it ought to be better but there are so many unproductive ways
> to amass money.
>
>> The socialists get it wrong by dragging everybody down.
>
> The important thing IMHO is to restrain the excesses at both ends,
> we can as easily afford cushions at the bottom as we can feathers at the
> top.
>
> Anyone can be unlucky enough to wind up at the bottom no matter
> how able. Some can never find a way up some give up trying, we can afford to
> be gentle to them and we should because there's one thing the Christians got
> right "There but for the grace of god go I". Replace "the grace of god"
> with "a bit of luck" if you prefer it's still true.
>

Well said!

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

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