Directory structures getting blown up:

It was not a bad disk drive, either. I realized this when I started
getting the "bad directory" messages on OTHER drives. I tried a
Macrium restore, and was told that every drive I plugged in had an
unreadable directory for each backup saved.

So I put it in sleep mode, and the next day tried again. Voila! All
the backup drives were readable again. SO, it appears some component,
CPU or memory, is malfunctioning at a certain temperature level.

New computer:

I have transferred over all my frequently used programs and the data
for those. So I am now typing this on the new computer. The only thing
I haven't been able to make work is VirtualBox, which continues to
complain about a missing driver. A friend/neighbor is a high-level
field tech who has volunteered to help me with this when he has time.

This one is now set with sleep mode set for two hours.

New problem:

There is one new problem. The old computer, when we thought the
problem was a bad disk drive, was equipped with a new 1 tb SSD drive,
which made it much faster on everything as compared to this new
computer. So I put that SSD drive in this computer, and tried to
restore with Macrium. Macrium did not offer the restore option, only
"deploy to another system" which doesn't work in Reflect Free.
Besides, I was not restoring to a different computer, just to a newer
disk drive.

I also used Macrium to "image this computer" to another drive. Macrium
did this. I then hooked up that drive in place of the current drive,
and booted. Wham: a host of messages about various Windows items that
needed to be updated or changed. So much for that being an "image."

Question: Is there a better backup/restore program than Macrium that
might actually do these things? Or a different way altogether?

Thanks for all your help the past few years!
-dan z-

--
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On 7/26/2022 9:31 AM, dyno dan wrote:
> Directory structures getting blown up:
>
> It was not a bad disk drive, either. I realized this when I started
> getting the "bad directory" messages on OTHER drives. I tried a
> Macrium restore, and was told that every drive I plugged in had an
> unreadable directory for each backup saved.
>
> So I put it in sleep mode, and the next day tried again. Voila! All
> the backup drives were readable again. SO, it appears some component,
> CPU or memory, is malfunctioning at a certain temperature level.
>
>
> New computer:
>
> I have transferred over all my frequently used programs and the data
> for those. So I am now typing this on the new computer. The only thing
> I haven't been able to make work is VirtualBox, which continues to
> complain about a missing driver. A friend/neighbor is a high-level
> field tech who has volunteered to help me with this when he has time.
>
> This one is now set with sleep mode set for two hours.
>
>
> New problem:
>
> There is one new problem. The old computer, when we thought the
> problem was a bad disk drive, was equipped with a new 1 tb SSD drive,
> which made it much faster on everything as compared to this new
> computer. So I put that SSD drive in this computer, and tried to
> restore with Macrium. Macrium did not offer the restore option, only
> "deploy to another system" which doesn't work in Reflect Free.
> Besides, I was not restoring to a different computer, just to a newer
> disk drive.
>
> I also used Macrium to "image this computer" to another drive. Macrium
> did this. I then hooked up that drive in place of the current drive,
> and booted. Wham: a host of messages about various Windows items that
> needed to be updated or changed. So much for that being an "image."
>
> Question: Is there a better backup/restore program than Macrium that
> might actually do these things? Or a different way altogether?
>
>
> Thanks for all your help the past few years!
> -dan z-

There are other redeploy programs. They cost around $50 per usage.
You do not own the software, you rent it per-PC-move. It is supposed
to come with tech support, so if one program does not transfer
over, someone from the company remotes in and tries to fix it.

Laplink PCMover
Easeus ToDo PCTrans
Zinstall

But it also does not solve licensing issues. A retail OS can be moved
from one machine to another, while an OEM/System-Builder cannot. You
would need to buy a license key for that old OS (Win7). On the other
hand, Win10 should move from one PC to another, and become unlicensed.
Then the Personalization menu stops working.

A Move+Redeploy does not solve all problems, especially on older
OSes with more-cranky licensing. But Win10 might be OK on a move
(from a level of crankiness perspective).

I used the trial version of Easeus and at the time, it does not
do anything, except to list the programs it thinks it is moving. And
it was incapable of making a complete program list at that time.
The others might be at the level of "one program did not move
and needed help".

I've not heard any results of Macrium trying that.

Paul

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 17:36:53 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>There are other redeploy programs. They cost around $50 per usage.
>You do not own the software, you rent it per-PC-move. It is supposed
>to come with tech support, so if one program does not transfer
>over, someone from the company remotes in and tries to fix it.
>
>Laplink PCMover
>Easeus ToDo PCTrans
>Zinstall
>
>But it also does not solve licensing issues. A retail OS can be moved
>from one machine to another, while an OEM/System-Builder cannot. You
>would need to buy a license key for that old OS (Win7). On the other
>hand, Win10 should move from one PC to another, and become unlicensed.
>Then the Personalization menu stops working.
>
>A Move+Redeploy does not solve all problems, especially on older
>OSes with more-cranky licensing. But Win10 might be OK on a move
>(from a level of crankiness perspective).
>
>I used the trial version of Easeus and at the time, it does not
>do anything, except to list the programs it thinks it is moving. And
>it was incapable of making a complete program list at that time.
>The others might be at the level of "one program did not move
>and needed help".
>
>I've not heard any results of Macrium trying that.

I guess I didn't make my self very clear. I am NOT trying to move
Win-10 from the old computer to the new one. The new one has it's own
Win-10. What I am trying to do is replace the spin drive on the new
computer with an SSD drive. Same deal as replacing a drive that has
gone bad, which I had to do twice on the old computer.

However on this new computer, Macrium doesn't seem to recognize that I
am simply replacing the drive. It thinks, apparently, that the new
drive makes it a different computer.

-dan z-

--
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Let the politicians know how you feel.
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>However on this new computer, Macrium doesn't seem to recognize that I
>am simply replacing the drive. It thinks, apparently, that the new
>drive makes it a different computer.
>
>-dan z-

I believe CLONE is what you want to do.

KenW

On 7/27/2022 8:17 AM, dyno dan wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 17:36:53 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> There are other redeploy programs. They cost around $50 per usage.
>> You do not own the software, you rent it per-PC-move. It is supposed
>> to come with tech support, so if one program does not transfer
>> over, someone from the company remotes in and tries to fix it.
>>
>> Laplink PCMover
>> Easeus ToDo PCTrans
>> Zinstall
>>
>> But it also does not solve licensing issues. A retail OS can be moved
>>from one machine to another, while an OEM/System-Builder cannot. You
>> would need to buy a license key for that old OS (Win7). On the other
>> hand, Win10 should move from one PC to another, and become unlicensed.
>> Then the Personalization menu stops working.
>>
>> A Move+Redeploy does not solve all problems, especially on older
>> OSes with more-cranky licensing. But Win10 might be OK on a move
>> (from a level of crankiness perspective).
>>
>> I used the trial version of Easeus and at the time, it does not
>> do anything, except to list the programs it thinks it is moving. And
>> it was incapable of making a complete program list at that time.
>> The others might be at the level of "one program did not move
>> and needed help".
>>
>> I've not heard any results of Macrium trying that.
>
>
> I guess I didn't make my self very clear. I am NOT trying to move
> Win-10 from the old computer to the new one. The new one has it's own
> Win-10. What I am trying to do is replace the spin drive on the new
> computer with an SSD drive. Same deal as replacing a drive that has
> gone bad, which I had to do twice on the old computer.
>
> However on this new computer, Macrium doesn't seem to recognize that I
> am simply replacing the drive. It thinks, apparently, that the new
> drive makes it a different computer.
>
> -dan z-

It could be the order you're doing it in.

I may have run into the same thing here, when
testing a 970 NVMe on my current system.

1) Power off. Install NVMe in tray.
Check BIOS can see it (in case the port has no I/O to it).
2) Boot off hard drive.
Look in Device Manager. Is NVMe detected ?
The device properties in Device Manager should note
an aptly named driver is present for it.
3) What you're doing when you do step (2), is ensuring Win10/Win11
will have driver support for booting when you need it. If Win10/Win11
needs to download a driver, this is the time that it will happen,
during (2). Do not go any further, until NVMe sled has driver.
4) Now as KenW says, while booted from hard drive, select CLONE
in Macrium, from the buttons below that row. Select the (uninitialized)
NVMe as destination. Make sure all the partitions you intended to
check have been ticked. Macrium uses VSS to clone, and the only things
not coming across are Windows.edb (SearchIndexer, can be rebuilt), and
perhaps the odd thing related to System Restore. Doing it from the CD,
probably does not material change things (you don't care about the stuff
it misses transferring).
5) Macrium changes the identifiers on the partitions, plus edits
the BCD, so that the clone "boots to itself". However, you should
also be able to power off after the clone, and unplug the HDD from
the machine. Then try to boot with nothing but NVMe. You could also
boot a modern-enough Macrium CD and do a boot repair of the NVMe, if
the boot does not work out for some reason. Boot repair is ONLY on the CD!
6) The BIOS at this time, may not be scanning the NVMe sled for
boot devices. Check that the BIOS is including the NVMe in the
search order. Mine has a very confusing collection of icons, but
NVMe is in there.

I have some image on my NVMe, and it probably got there via clone,
rather than by backup/restore which is slower. I would not be doing that
for transfer to NVMe. As the HDD is my backup in a sense.

The advantage of Macrium for this, is the changing of identifiers
and fixing the BCD so there is no "boot contamination" from the HDD.
Crude home-made cloning methods, lack this level of sophistication
and get it wrong. And if you use the Macrium CD Boot Repair after
a Clone, using the Boot Repair changes the identifiers once again.
So if a person used dd.exe to clone a drive, they could still use
the Macrium CD Boot Repair and "do it right" by Boot Repairing to
clean up the mistakes made.

Paul

Well, previous diagnoses allowed me to learn a lot, but it turns out
we were all wrong...

Apparently the old Dell has some sort of malware infection, which is
now also manifesting itself on the new computer. That problem is
various icons for programs go white, and then clicking on one of those
to run the program results in a "damaged directory" message.

This can be fixed, for a while, by deleting that directory and then
restoring it from backup, although it has to be restored to a
different directory NAME. Thus the 'firefox" directory is named
"firefox2" by me when restoring. (I'm now at firefox4).

So how do I know that this is not a hardware problem? Because now the
NEW Dell is doing the exact same thing.

I have run scans with Avira and the paid version of MalwareBytes. Both
come up clean.

Two possibilities:

1) Maybe someone here can suggest a way of detecting the malware.

2) I restore the new Dell to the "as received" condition I backed up,
and start over. First install my two essentials, email and firefox.
Wait two or three days to see what happens. If OK, install another
program. Wait two or three days..... etc. When the problem occurs,
backup one step with a restore, and do NOT install that particular
program. I need more backup drives. And a lot of time.

Ain't life fun.

-dan z-

--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887
(use cut and paste to your browser if necessary)

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On 7/29/2022 9:55 AM, dyno dan wrote:
> Well, previous diagnoses allowed me to learn a lot, but it turns out
> we were all wrong...
>
> Apparently the old Dell has some sort of malware infection, which is
> now also manifesting itself on the new computer. That problem is
> various icons for programs go white, and then clicking on one of those
> to run the program results in a "damaged directory" message.
>
> This can be fixed, for a while, by deleting that directory and then
> restoring it from backup, although it has to be restored to a
> different directory NAME. Thus the 'firefox" directory is named
> "firefox2" by me when restoring. (I'm now at firefox4).
>
> So how do I know that this is not a hardware problem? Because now the
> NEW Dell is doing the exact same thing.
>
> I have run scans with Avira and the paid version of MalwareBytes. Both
> come up clean.
>
> Two possibilities:
>
> 1) Maybe someone here can suggest a way of detecting the malware.
>
> 2) I restore the new Dell to the "as received" condition I backed up,
> and start over. First install my two essentials, email and firefox.
> Wait two or three days to see what happens. If OK, install another
> program. Wait two or three days..... etc. When the problem occurs,
> backup one step with a restore, and do NOT install that particular
> program. I need more backup drives. And a lot of time.
>
> Ain't life fun.
>
>
> -dan z-

Kaspersky Rescue Disk (offline scanner) - trust issue...

Bitdefender offline scanner - XWindows problem, it attempts to use modesetting
for Linux graphics, broken. If you set up
an Xorg elsewhere in the room, you can display
the Bitdefender scanning session on a second computer.
Not exactly practical, but I have actually
managed to do a scan with that pig.

And there are probably more disasters like that.

*******

Windows has its own offline scanner, as a built-in.

https://www.howtogeek.com/100289/how-to-create-a-bootable-offline-version-of-windows-defender/

Due to the annoying adverts on the page, here is the
panel with the setting. Perhaps searching for "Offline Scan"
in Settings will find it, you never know.

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/select-offline-scan-then-click-Scan-Now.png?trim=1,1&bg-color=000&pad=1,1

On Win7 and Win8, MSSS is a separate ISO that you burn to
do the offline scan. Windows 10 uses all that fine WinRE
stuff, to have its own separate boot OS and then the
scanner is likely running from that X: drive.

So the idea is, maybe the Windows Offline scanner knows
what the malware is. Even if it can't properly Quarantine it.
I do not expect most tools to work on "current" malware,
because the malware people have their own "excellent tech support" :-/

Paul

On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:56:31 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 7/29/2022 9:55 AM, dyno dan wrote:
>> Well, previous diagnoses allowed me to learn a lot, but it turns out
>> we were all wrong...

And maybe again.

I finally found a web page which had some actual suggestions on
finding this problem. One was to let Windows check the file table:
Bring up File Explorer
Select the drive in question
Click "Properties"
Click "Tools"
Click "Check"

This gives me an error in the MFT that Windows is "unable to repair."

Note that the new computer has not had the disappearing files and
folders problem for about three days now. I ran the same check on it,
and it reported "no problems."

VERY confusing. Why did the problem stop on it's own on the new
computer? What caused it to happen in the first place? Why is my
"downloads" folder empty now, when it had a bunch of files in it a few
days ago?

Proposed solution for old computer:
1) Make Macrium disk backup to another drive.
2) Booting and using Macrium emergency CD...
a) Restore all partitions EXCEPT C: to the main drive. (probably
unnecessary).
(b) Use the "files and folders" restore option to repopulate C:

Think that might work? It seems it would restore all of C: one file at
a time, thus producing a new MFT.

I have a new 1Tb drive arriving today which should give me some room
to save things before trying something new, such as the above.

-dan z-
__

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On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 09:02:52 -0400, dyno dan <logic@is.important>
wrote:

>Proposed solution for old computer:
>1) Make Macrium disk backup to another drive.
>2) Booting and using Macrium emergency CD...
> a) Restore all partitions EXCEPT C: to the main drive. (probably
>unnecessary).
> (b) Use the "files and folders" restore option to repopulate C:

Obviously I didn't think this through. I WILL have to restore the C:
partition, otherwise there won't be any. Will a PE disk then enable me
to delete all the files on that partition?

More news: while I was writing this on the new computer, I was running
the MFT check on the old one again. This time it passed. Problem
solved?

-dan z-

--
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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On 7/30/2022 2:05 PM, dyno dan wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 09:02:52 -0400, dyno dan <logic@is.important>
> wrote:
>
>> Proposed solution for old computer:
>> 1) Make Macrium disk backup to another drive.
>> 2) Booting and using Macrium emergency CD...
>> a) Restore all partitions EXCEPT C: to the main drive. (probably
>> unnecessary).
>> (b) Use the "files and folders" restore option to repopulate C:
>
>
> Obviously I didn't think this through. I WILL have to restore the C:
> partition, otherwise there won't be any. Will a PE disk then enable me
> to delete all the files on that partition?
>
> More news: while I was writing this on the new computer, I was running
> the MFT check on the old one again. This time it passed. Problem
> solved?
>
> -dan z-

Quite possibly.

Sometimes the Lost&Found folder at the top level is
populated with "fragments". And those might correspond to
what used to be in Downloads.

The Files and Folders Restore option is likely to only
work with the licensed version of Macrium. Since that
is the case, only people who bought a copy will have
any experience with this function.

As for $MFT, it is pretty resistant to being "tidied"
or "rewritten". People don't even seem to do that to
partitions which are un-mounted. Entries in the $MFT can
be added, but not removed. You can clear out an entry,
and it just sits there like an empty mail box. It can be
reassigned to a new file, which represents "reuse". But
generally the $MFT does not shrink.

The $MFT can be defragmented, but I would not say this
happens in a way where the user is under control.

It would be a *Lot* more fun to play with the file system,
if we had a utility that could prove "C: == D:" as
this would allow component-level manipulation of D:
until it matched C: .

Of all the utilities I've got for listing the contents of
CL , no two utilities agree on the file list. Every file
list is different.

For example, everything.exe can list files on C: and dump
to a text file. I think I noticed some portion of the Bash shell
in Windows 10, is missing from that listing. This is presumably
a permissions problem. Even the Microsoft nfi.exe utility
is missing a few items.

And VSS shadows and some of the contents of System Volume Information,
should not be "touched" by the user. I had a Windows 7 C: permanently
ruined by being careless. No amount of CHKDSKing would bring it back.
"Severe tire wear" so to speak. Whereas lots of other areas of
the C: are safe to touch.

I've also had utilities foul up the hard links to WinSXS. This
causes C: to be 6GB to 8GB larger when you attempt to make a "copy".
This is why checking sizes after a "clone" is a good idea. Just
in case the utility you use, is really that lame to not handle
hard links properly.

Even the Properties "donut" for C: , in Windows 10 and Windows 11
can be a different claimed size. There was a time, when I would
tell you that the Properties "donut" was the only honest appraisal
of storage size. Due to the double-counting of some structures,
labeling in other parts of File Explorer are wrong.

WinPE and WinRE are miniature versions of Windows. Because these
OSes are component based, you can remove subsystems. WinPE would
not have VSS for making shadows (snapshots) for example. But then again,
the C: partition is not "busy" when WinPE is running, so there isn't
much of a use case for a VSS shadow at that time. When WinPE or WinRE
is running, they run off drive letter X: and X: is the "OS partition"
while they are the boss. Leaving C: for backup or restore, or
for that matter, even CHKDSK C: without having to wait for boot
time for the CHKDSK to run.

Any time you run CHKDSK from a CD or DVD, always try

chkdsk /?

and read the help. It might have been Windows 7, that had
a couple new flags added. And in one case, one of the new
flags actually fixed a partition for me. And that's why I
recommend people check out the help, just in case there
is a gem in there. The HDD CHKDSK and the CD CHKDSK,
don't have the same options!

For me, the Windows 7 CHKDSK is "the best", but it can also be
extremely slow when processing a Windows 10 or Windows 11 partition.
I sometimes suffer "Unix flashbacks" it is so slow.

Paul

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:09:12 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>> More news: while I was writing this on the new computer, I was running
>> the MFT check on the old one again. This time it passed. Problem
>> solved?
>>
>> -dan z-
>
>Quite possibly.

Well, this was no fun at all. I've been tearing my hair out (and
spending money) for weeks. But at least I discovered that my initial
suspicion was correct - a Microsoft problem.

My internet sessions on this problem produced LOTS of entries from
people who had it, but NO useful suggestions on how to fix it. I tried
looking again last week, and finally there was an article with
intelligent suggestions, including the one that worked. Makes me
wonder how many others are now tearing their hair out....

Thanks again for your assistance and suggestions.

-dan z-

--
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Let the politicians know how you feel.
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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 08:37:17 -0400, dyno dan <logic@is.important>
wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:09:12 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>> More news: while I was writing this on the new computer, I was running
>>> the MFT check on the old one again. This time it passed. Problem
>>> solved?
>>>
>>> -dan z-
>>
>>Quite possibly.
>
>Well, this was no fun at all. I've been tearing my hair out (and
>spending money) for weeks. But at least I discovered that my initial
>suspicion was correct - a Microsoft problem.
>
>My internet sessions on this problem produced LOTS of entries from
>people who had it, but NO useful suggestions on how to fix it. I tried
>looking again last week, and finally there was an article with
>intelligent suggestions, including the one that worked. Makes me
>wonder how many others are now tearing their hair out....
>
>
>Thanks again for your assistance and suggestions.
>
>-dan z-

Speaking of Microsoft problems:

1) Both computers suddenly stopped playing music, with no error
messages. Foobar 2000 told me it couldn't find an output device.
Windows sound in the control panel showed an input sound device (i.e.
microphone), but no outbound sound device. I had to install updated
sound drivers on both.

2) The old computer still has the constantly-climbing memory usage by
"Desktop Window Manager." I haven't seen this one on the new
computer. but then I really haven't used it much yet. I actually like
the old one better. It is a smaller case, but packed inside. The new
one looks like a laptop motherboard with a fan blowing across a vast
empty box. The old one has 4 disk/CD-ROM bays, The new one has two
(both full, of course). That's how you use a larger case? The old one
has several USB ports in the rear. The new one has two in the rear and
3 in the front. They advertised at "all the USB ports you will ever
need," even though it has fewer than the older model.

The older one is faster, but this, I'm sure, is due to the SSD C:
drive it now has. The spin drive in the new one seems really slow,
definitely slower than the spin drive that was in the older computer.
Otherwise, they have the same CPU, and memory amount.

And the new one's CD drive is junk. It is so cheap that the whole
assembly flexes when you open or close it. I often have to place a CD
in it two or three times before the computer can actually read it.

Well, live and learn. The websites that recommend Dell as "best,"
"most reliable," etc. might be receiving kickbacks....

Best, longest lived computer I ever had: ASUS. Still have it, with the
Windows 7 that I installed to replace the Windows XP with which it was
originally loaded. Playing with it recently really made me miss
Windows 7. It's all been down hill since then.

Unfortunately... I looked at Dell, ASUS and HP computers before buying
the new Dell. What I discovered is, they all seem pretty much
identical. The pictures of the rear panels, for example, show almost
all connectors in the same place and order. Even the vent panels look
the same. One computer fits all? One manufacturer actually makes all?

-dan z-

Cheers! Until the next problem....

__

--
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