I've been looking at photos of the 80-Axx planar and the design looks
very Japanese. Just look at the silkscreen:

https://computer-retro.de/Bilder/Mainboards/IBM-386-System-Board-FRU-85F0046-PN-33F5571-Intel-A82385-386DX-25MHz-CPU-SX218-4MB-IBM-RAM-Modul-Enhanced-Memory-Expansion-Adapter-inkl-ROM-RAM-IBM-XGA-1-75X5887-Display-Adapter-MCA-SCSI-Controller-IBM-Token-Ring-16-4-Network-1991.jpg

(dear lord, that file name...)

All components have an outline around/under them, most components use
the odd (but helpful) ID/type scheme, and there's also a dedicated space
for the EC # sticker - all typical signs for boards designed by IBM Japan.

It doesn't quite explain the socketed K/B controller, because even if
that was something that IBM Japan liked to do, IBM (US) could simply
drop the socket for boards manufactured in the US. Unless all Axx boards
were actually manufactured in Japan as well...

The two AVE slots (again, a feature exclusive to the 80-Axx board) would
also make more sense. Most, if not all, PS/55 machines (at least from
that era) were equipped with one of the special Japanese Display
Adapters that were necessary to display proper Kanji characters. PS/55
Model 5570 was the Japanese equivalent of "our" PS/2 Model 80:

https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/5570/5570.html

The 5570-Vxx models were equipped with the 25 MHz -Axx planar and the
Display Adapter II card - an AVE adapter! Now, since having one of these
cards was pretty much mandatory for the Japanese market, you would be
left with no empty AVE slots - which would cripple the expandability
somewhat. Later, when the BVE extension was introduced to the MCA world,
IBM Japan moved the DA board to that slot instead. This is known as the
BVEC series:

https://www.ardent-tool.com/sandy55/Video/PS55_DA.html#BVEC

Unlike the older AVEC series, these later adapters have VGA onboard. So,
in this iteration, they could get away with the more typical
configuration of one BVE slot and one AVE slot.

Makes sense?

If this is correct

https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/Timeline.html

then the 5570-V0x was introduced in May 1989, 10 months before the
8580-Axx (March 1990):

https://ardent-tool.com/8580/190-055.txt

On 14.7.2021 11:16, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> I've been looking at photos of the 80-Axx planar and the design looks
> very Japanese. Just look at the silkscreen:
>
> https://computer-retro.de/Bilder/Mainboards/IBM-386-System-Board-FRU-85F0046-PN-33F5571-Intel-A82385-386DX-25MHz-CPU-SX218-4MB-IBM-RAM-Modul-Enhanced-Memory-Expansion-Adapter-inkl-ROM-RAM-IBM-XGA-1-75X5887-Display-Adapter-MCA-SCSI-Controller-IBM-Token-Ring-16-4-Network-1991.jpg
>
> (dear lord, that file name...)
>
> All components have an outline around/under them, most components use
> the odd (but helpful) ID/type scheme, and there's also a dedicated space
> for the EC # sticker - all typical signs for boards designed by IBM Japan.
>
> It doesn't quite explain the socketed K/B controller, because even if
> that was something that IBM Japan liked to do, IBM (US) could simply
> drop the socket for boards manufactured in the US. Unless all Axx boards
> were actually manufactured in Japan as well...
>
> The two AVE slots (again, a feature exclusive to the 80-Axx board) would
> also make more sense. Most, if not all, PS/55 machines (at least from
> that era) were equipped with one of the special Japanese Display
> Adapters that were necessary to display proper Kanji characters. PS/55
> Model 5570 was the Japanese equivalent of "our" PS/2 Model 80:
>
> https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/5570/5570.html
>
> The 5570-Vxx models were equipped with the 25 MHz -Axx planar and the
> Display Adapter II card - an AVE adapter! Now, since having one of these
> cards was pretty much mandatory for the Japanese market, you would be
> left with no empty AVE slots - which would cripple the expandability
> somewhat. Later, when the BVE extension was introduced to the MCA world,
> IBM Japan moved the DA board to that slot instead. This is known as the
> BVEC series:
>
> https://www.ardent-tool.com/sandy55/Video/PS55_DA.html#BVEC
>
> Unlike the older AVEC series, these later adapters have VGA onboard. So,
> in this iteration, they could get away with the more typical
> configuration of one BVE slot and one AVE slot.
>
> Makes sense?
>

Lettuce consider the probable Japanese made significant systems:

8525 Seiko / Epson
P70 / P75
8580-Axx
H/L complexi
9585 X/K/N

On 7/14/2021 05:40, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> If this is correct
>
> https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/Timeline.html
>
> then the 5570-V0x was introduced in May 1989, 10 months before the
> 8580-Axx (March 1990):
>
> https://ardent-tool.com/8580/190-055.txt
>
> On 14.7.2021 11:16, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>> I've been looking at photos of the 80-Axx planar and the design looks
>> very Japanese. Just look at the silkscreen:
>>
>> https://computer-retro.de/Bilder/Mainboards/IBM-386-System-Board-FRU-85F0046-PN-33F5571-Intel-A82385-386DX-25MHz-CPU-SX218-4MB-IBM-RAM-Modul-Enhanced-Memory-Expansion-Adapter-inkl-ROM-RAM-IBM-XGA-1-75X5887-Display-Adapter-MCA-SCSI-Controller-IBM-Token-Ring-16-4-Network-1991.jpg
>>
>> (dear lord, that file name...)
>>
>> All components have an outline around/under them, most components use
>> the odd (but helpful) ID/type scheme, and there's also a dedicated space
>> for the EC # sticker - all typical signs for boards designed by IBM Japan.
>>
>> It doesn't quite explain the socketed K/B controller, because even if
>> that was something that IBM Japan liked to do, IBM (US) could simply
>> drop the socket for boards manufactured in the US. Unless all Axx boards
>> were actually manufactured in Japan as well...
>>
>> The two AVE slots (again, a feature exclusive to the 80-Axx board) would
>> also make more sense. Most, if not all, PS/55 machines (at least from
>> that era) were equipped with one of the special Japanese Display
>> Adapters that were necessary to display proper Kanji characters. PS/55
>> Model 5570 was the Japanese equivalent of "our" PS/2 Model 80:
>>
>> https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/5570/5570.html
>>
>> The 5570-Vxx models were equipped with the 25 MHz -Axx planar and the
>> Display Adapter II card - an AVE adapter! Now, since having one of these
>> cards was pretty much mandatory for the Japanese market, you would be
>> left with no empty AVE slots - which would cripple the expandability
>> somewhat. Later, when the BVE extension was introduced to the MCA world,
>> IBM Japan moved the DA board to that slot instead. This is known as the
>> BVEC series:
>>
>> https://www.ardent-tool.com/sandy55/Video/PS55_DA.html#BVEC
>>
>> Unlike the older AVEC series, these later adapters have VGA onboard. So,
>> in this iteration, they could get away with the more typical
>> configuration of one BVE slot and one AVE slot.
>>
>> Makes sense?
>>
>

I wonder what a Japanese PS/55 Axx KB firmware looks like... Perhaps the
use of Kanji made a socketed KBC worth the extra cost for a socket?

On 7/14/2021 04:16, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> It doesn't quite explain the socketed K/B controller, because even if
> that was something that IBM Japan liked to do, IBM (US) could simply
> drop the socket for boards manufactured in the US. Unless all Axx boards
> were actually manufactured in Japan as well...

On 14.7.2021 16:17, Louis Ohland wrote:
> I wonder what a Japanese PS/55 Axx KB firmware looks like... Perhaps the
> use of Kanji made a socketed KBC worth the extra cost for a socket?
>
> On 7/14/2021 04:16, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>> It doesn't quite explain the socketed K/B controller, because even if
>> that was something that IBM Japan liked to do, IBM (US) could simply
>> drop the socket for boards manufactured in the US. Unless all Axx boards
>> were actually manufactured in Japan as well...
>

I don't know...

I wonder if other PS/55s designed by IBM Japan had the K/B controller
socketed as well... PS/55 photos are hard to come by :(.

On 14.7.2021 16:08, Louis Ohland wrote:
> Lettuce consider the probable Japanese made significant systems:
>
> 8525 Seiko / Epson
> P70 / P75
> 8580-Axx
> H/L complexi
> 9585 X/K/N

The 9585 planars don't look very Japanese, but it's true that the X
planar uses the same chipset as the Japanese DX2-66 Type-A complex (the
K/N reused only the DMA gate array)...

https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/5570/5570.html

PS/55 Model 5570 is the Japanese equivalent of PS/2 Model 80 (8580).

The planar VGA connector is covered by a plastic cap, and PS/55 Display
Adapter-II is installed in the AVE slot.

> Lettuce consider the probable Japanese made significant systems:
>
> 8525 Seiko / Epson
> [snip]

The Model 30 was first - let me also state that I believe the initial Model 30 was designed by Seiko-Epson, not the Model 25. The Model 30 planar is bigger and odd-shaped (with the large power and planar HDB-15 connections) from later designs. Consider that the Model 30 286 case had a audio headset plug opening that fits the exact location that the 8086-based Model 25 had (it could be that the RTC was planned for the riser).

And there is the oddity that the Model 25 and Model 30 components are identified exactly the same on all the 8086-based planar versions...

> > Lettuce consider the probable Japanese made significant systems:
> >
> > 8525 Seiko / Epson
> > [snip]
>
> The Model 30 was first - let me also state that I believe the initial Model 30 was designed by Seiko-Epson, not the Model 25. The Model 30 planar is bigger and odd-shaped (with the large power and planar HDB-15 connections) from later designs. Consider that the Model 30 286 case had a audio headset plug opening that fits the exact location that the 8086-based Model 25 had (it could be that the RTC was planned for the riser).
>
> And there is the oddity that the Model 25 and Model 30 components are identified exactly the same on all the 8086-based planar versions...

The 8086-based Model 30 case is just odd - I almost think the planar was for another system. It clearly wouldn't work in a Model 25 implementation, which changed the design for the 30 286 case as well (smaller planars, drive cables at the edges of the planar.

And "P-Planar" on the original - even the later planars didn't get identified in a 'Type' enumeration like IBM did for other models from the PC line to PS/2s.

I have only now noticed that twin AVE slots were a common thing in the
older (386-era) 5550s!

https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/5550/5550_386.html

That pretty much confirms the true origins of the 8580-A planar...

On 14.7.2021 18:06, Louis Ohland wrote:
> https://ardent-tool.com/sandy55/5570/5570.html
>
> PS/55 Model 5570 is the Japanese equivalent of PS/2 Model 80 (8580).
>
> The planar VGA connector is covered by a plastic cap, and PS/55 Display
> Adapter-II is installed in the AVE slot.
>