Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot of
effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the upgrade
process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way first!

I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS Office
apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the taskbar
(which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never used to
happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.

Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've seen
about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.

It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL that
pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an Excel
spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.

I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from
"bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix it.
Not for me.

Any suggestions?

In message <u934f8$14biq$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28,
NY <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot
>of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the
>upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way
>first!
>
>I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS
>Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the
>taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never
>used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>
>Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've
>seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>
>It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL
>that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an
>Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>
>I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from
>"bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix
>it. Not for me.
>
>Any suggestions?

Not really. Is your taskbar unusual in any way? I have a double-height
one (two rows of "buttons", if that's the right word for the things it
contains corresponding to open software or pinned things), and this does
cause some softwares to have problems. It's consistent though - only the
same softwares sometimes have problems with it. Yours, as it sounds as
if it's happened suddenly, is probably a different cause. I was going to
suggest maybe it's a recent update to the software(s), but you say Excel
too, which I imagine hasn't been updated recently (if you're using W7, I
presume you're not using Office 365 or whatever it's called this week).

As for moving to W10 - noting you've posted here and only here, there
are plenty of us who have no intention of doing so, in some cases ever,
in other cases on current hardware. (Your concerns about the - for
normal users - unstoppable "up"grade process causing problems are
_probably_ mitigating somewhat - I think 10 is approaching where XP and
7 were/are, i. e. only bugfixes, but I still wouldn't change a W7
machine to W10.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Paxman, the man who has never used one sneer when three would do
- Elizabeth Day, RT 2015/5/2-8

On 7/17/2023 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <u934f8$14biq$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28, NY <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way first!
>>
>> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>>
>> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>>
>> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>>
>> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix it. Not for me.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> Not really. Is your taskbar unusual in any way? I have a double-height one (two rows of "buttons", if that's the right word for the things it contains corresponding to open software or pinned things), and this does cause some softwares to have problems. It's consistent though - only the same softwares sometimes have problems with it. Yours, as it sounds as if it's happened suddenly, is probably a different cause. I was going to suggest maybe it's a recent update to the software(s), but you say Excel too, which I imagine hasn't been updated recently (if you're using W7, I presume you're not using Office 365 or whatever it's called this week).
>
> As for moving to W10 - noting you've posted here and only here, there are plenty of us who have no intention of doing so, in some cases ever, in other cases on current hardware. (Your concerns about the - for normal users - unstoppable "up"grade process causing problems are _probably_ mitigating somewhat - I think 10 is approaching where XP and 7 were/are, i. e. only bugfixes, but I still wouldn't change a W7 machine to W10.)

There were weird behaviors with the Task Bar like that, on WinXP.

As for the longevity of Windows 7, two browser suppliers claim their
products no longer will be produced for Windows 7. Whether this is a
switch to Vulkan or something else used for leverage, I don't know.
W7 and W81 were removed, in the same announcement.

If you can function without browsers, then, great.

They will continue to evolve web standards,
for the express purpose of breaking your existing browser.
There are lots of web sites that do "browser sniffing" for
the express purpose of not serving old browsers. The plugin
is presumably provided "by the usual big company".

Paul

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28 +0100
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a
> lot of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not
> *if*) the upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion
> out of the way first!
>
> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS
> Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind
> the taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This
> never used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>
> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've
> seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>
> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL
> that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an
> Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>
> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from
> "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might
> fix it. Not for me.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

I suggest MX Linux. I moved to Linux when Windows 8 came out and have
never regretted it. It's as close to Windows 7 as you will get.

Move the panel to the bottom and you will be comfortable. That can be
done using the MX Tweak tool found in the menu.

XFCE is the best.

https://mxlinux.org/

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 09:58:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 7/17/2023 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <u934f8$14biq$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28, NY <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>>> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way first!
>>>
>>> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>>>
>>> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>>>
>>> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>>>
>>> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix it. Not for me.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Not really. Is your taskbar unusual in any way? I have a double-height one (two rows of "buttons", if that's the right word for the things it contains corresponding to open software or pinned things), and this does cause some softwares to have problems. It's consistent though - only the same softwares sometimes have problems with it. Yours, as it sounds as if it's happened suddenly, is probably a different cause. I was going to suggest maybe it's a recent update to the software(s), but you say Excel too, which I imagine hasn't been updated recently (if you're using W7, I presume you're not using Office 365 or whatever it's called this week).
>>
>> As for moving to W10 - noting you've posted here and only here, there are plenty of us who have no intention of doing so, in some cases ever, in other cases on current hardware. (Your concerns about the - for normal users - unstoppable "up"grade process causing problems are _probably_ mitigating somewhat - I think 10 is approaching where XP and 7 were/are, i. e. only bugfixes, but I still wouldn't change a W7 machine to W10.)
>
>There were weird behaviors with the Task Bar like that, on WinXP.
>
>As for the longevity of Windows 7, two browser suppliers claim their
>products no longer will be produced for Windows 7. Whether this is a
>switch to Vulkan or something else used for leverage, I don't know.
>W7 and W81 were removed, in the same announcement.
>
>If you can function without browsers, then, great.
>
>They will continue to evolve web standards,
>for the express purpose of breaking your existing browser.
>There are lots of web sites that do "browser sniffing" for
>the express purpose of not serving old browsers. The plugin
>is presumably provided "by the usual big company".
>
> Paul

Why is the text running unrestricted to the right in the above posts?
I thought it was because the poster didn't have word wrap set
properly, but J. P. Gilliver should know how to do that as much as he
posts and his post runs over too.

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

On 7/17/2023 10:54 AM, jetjock wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 09:58:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/17/2023 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> In message <u934f8$14biq$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28, NY <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>>>> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way first!
>>>>
>>>> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>>>>
>>>> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>>>>
>>>> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix it. Not for me.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Not really. Is your taskbar unusual in any way? I have a double-height one (two rows of "buttons", if that's the right word for the things it contains corresponding to open software or pinned things), and this does cause some softwares to have problems. It's consistent though - only the same softwares sometimes have problems with it. Yours, as it sounds as if it's happened suddenly, is probably a different cause. I was going to suggest maybe it's a recent update to the software(s), but you say Excel too, which I imagine hasn't been updated recently (if you're using W7, I presume you're not using Office 365 or whatever it's called this week).
>>>
>>> As for moving to W10 - noting you've posted here and only here, there are plenty of us who have no intention of doing so, in some cases ever, in other cases on current hardware. (Your concerns about the - for normal users - unstoppable "up"grade process causing problems are _probably_ mitigating somewhat - I think 10 is approaching where XP and 7 were/are, i. e. only bugfixes, but I still wouldn't change a W7 machine to W10.)
>>
>> There were weird behaviors with the Task Bar like that, on WinXP.
>>
>> As for the longevity of Windows 7, two browser suppliers claim their
>> products no longer will be produced for Windows 7. Whether this is a
>> switch to Vulkan or something else used for leverage, I don't know.
>> W7 and W81 were removed, in the same announcement.
>>
>> If you can function without browsers, then, great.
>>
>> They will continue to evolve web standards,
>> for the express purpose of breaking your existing browser.
>> There are lots of web sites that do "browser sniffing" for
>> the express purpose of not serving old browsers. The plugin
>> is presumably provided "by the usual big company".
>>
>> Paul
>
> Why is the text running unrestricted to the right in the above posts?
> I thought it was because the poster didn't have word wrap set
> properly, but J. P. Gilliver should know how to do that as much as he
> posts and his post runs over too.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>

The first one is format=flowed , but it looks normal in Howard.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cu934f8%2414biq%241%40dont-email.me%3E

The second one is like that too.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CzudKzZHLbTtkFwW3%40255soft.uk%3E

The difference in mine, would be it is set to Format=Flowed plus the word wrap
is set at 1000, whereas the other two posts are set at 72 or so. So I suppose
the text has flowed and is taking advantage of the 1000 setting.

The reason my word-wrap is set to 1000, is so if I draw an ASCII-art
diagram, it is not disturbed by wrap.

And I don't think my changing the setting right now, will have
any impact on the mess in this post.

Paul

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot of
> effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the upgrade
> process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way first!
>
> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS Office
> apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the taskbar
> (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never used to
> happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>
> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've seen
> about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>
> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL that
> pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an Excel
> spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>
> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from
> "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix it.
> Not for me.
>
> Any suggestions?

For the screen size setting in Windows, are you running the monitor at
its native resolution?

Are you running the windows (that underlap the taskbar) at fullscreen?
When ran fullscreen (F11 toggle), the taskbar should disappear. Change
to maximized view to see if its window remains within the screen minus
the taskbar.

When dragging a normal sized window (less than full screen), the app's
window will underlap the taskball. Try to drag up the window so it is
not underneath the taskbar (the entire window is visible within the
screen size less taskbar), exit, and reload to check if the window
position is higher up than before. After dragging the window up, and
you maximize the window (not fullscreen, but just maximize), is the app
still underlapping the taskbar? By reducing the app's window in normal
sized mode to be less than the screen size (minus taskbar), maximize
should keep the app's window within the screen area (minus taskbar).
Anyone can drag down a normal sized app window so it underlaps the
taskbar, so maybe that's what you did before, and forgot to drag it back
up before exiting the app, so Windows remembered the last position you
left the window with it underlapping the taskbar.

Are you using any desktop manager replacements, like OpenShell or
ClassicShell?

On 17/07/2023 11:17, NY wrote:
> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a lot
> of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not *if*) the
> upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion out of the way
> first!
>
> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS
> Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind the
> taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This never
> used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>
> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've
> seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>
> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL
> that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an
> Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>
> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from
> "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might fix
> it. Not for me.
>
> Any suggestions?

Doesn't clicking first on the taskbar and then on the app bring the app
forward so it's in front of the task bar?

It does on my Windows 7 PC.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

In message <l9labilmb6haffi6oom0fnb0fr5u0b49ln@4ax.com> at Mon, 17 Jul
2023 09:54:06, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> writes
>On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 09:58:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 7/17/2023 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>>> As for moving to W10 - noting you've posted here and only here,
>>>there are plenty of us who have no intention of doing so, in some
>>>cases ever, in other cases on current hardware. (Your concerns about
>>>the - for normal users - unstoppable "up"grade process causing
>>>problems are _probably_ mitigating somewhat - I think 10 is
>>>approaching where XP and 7 were/are, i. e. only bugfixes, but I still
>>>wouldn't change a W7 machine to W10.)
>>
>>There were weird behaviors with the Task Bar like that, on WinXP.
>>
>>As for the longevity of Windows 7, two browser suppliers claim their
>>products no longer will be produced for Windows 7. Whether this is a

Updated (-:

>>switch to Vulkan or something else used for leverage, I don't know.
>>W7 and W81 were removed, in the same announcement.
>>
>>If you can function without browsers, then, great.

Well, I'm mostly using Chrome, which I think we were told some time ago
was no longer supported in 7. Quick look: it says

To get future Google Chrome updates, you'll need Windows 10 or later.
This computer is using Windows 7. Learn more
Version 109.0.5414.120 (Official Build) (32-bit)

.. (Doesn't give a date, but I think I've seen that text for some time.)
>>
>>They will continue to evolve web standards,
>>for the express purpose of breaking your existing browser.

I really resent that. It's like developing a new type of petrol
(gasoline), or road surface, that old^Wexisting cars can't use. Of
course, they'll avoid any legal attempts to stop them by ...

>>There are lots of web sites that do "browser sniffing" for
>>the express purpose of not serving old browsers. The plugin
>>is presumably provided "by the usual big company".

.... invoking the great god Security. Which I think is almost entirely a
red herring.
>>
>> Paul
>
>Why is the text running unrestricted to the right in the above posts?
>I thought it was because the poster didn't have word wrap set
>properly, but J. P. Gilliver should know how to do that as much as he
>posts and his post runs over too.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

I (my name's John, by the way) have my outgoing text set to wrap at IIRR
72 (80 for signatures); I also have my newsreader set to autowrap
incoming text. Despite that, some posts still require horizontal
scrolling (sometimes including my own text after it's been out and back
in). I did try to understand it - IIRR it involves "hard and soft
returns" - but gave up. (I tend to ignore some posters.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

J. P. Gilliver wrote on 18/7/23 7:02 am:

<Snip>

> I (my name's John, by the way) have my outgoing text set to wrap at
> IIRR 72 (80 for signatures); I also have my newsreader set to
> autowrap incoming text. Despite that, some posts still require
> horizontal scrolling (sometimes including my own text after it's been
> out and back in). I did try to understand it - IIRR it involves "hard
> and soft returns" - but gave up. (I tend to ignore some posters.)

'IIRR it involves "hard and soft returns"'. As I understand it, the
"IIRR 72 (80 for signatures)" that you refer to, is the 'soft return',
inserted for you by the software you are using, whereas when you hit
'Carriage Return' at the end of a paragraph .. that is a 'hard return'.
--
Daniel

Johnny wrote on 18/7/23 12:15 am:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28 +0100
> "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a
>> lot of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not
>> *if*) the upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion
>> out of the way first!
>>
>> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS
>> Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind
>> the taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off). This
>> never used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
>>
>> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles I've
>> seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
>>
>> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the URL
>> that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab names in an
>> Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
>>
>> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position from
>> "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested might
>> fix it. Not for me.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> I suggest MX Linux. I moved to Linux when Windows 8 came out and have
> never regretted it. It's as close to Windows 7 as you will get.
>
> Move the panel to the bottom and you will be comfortable. That can be
> done using the MX Tweak tool found in the menu.
>
> XFCE is the best.
>
> https://mxlinux.org/
>
It might suit NY to install the Linux OS to Dual-Boot with his Win7 (as
I do) so he can acclimatize to the Linux OS without loosing his Win7
just yet!
--
Daniel

In message <u95u9v$1km9e$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 18 Jul 2023 21:50:24,
Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes
>J. P. Gilliver wrote on 18/7/23 7:02 am:
>
><Snip>
>
>> I (my name's John, by the way) have my outgoing text set to wrap at
>> IIRR 72 (80 for signatures); I also have my newsreader set to
>> autowrap incoming text. Despite that, some posts still require
>> horizontal scrolling (sometimes including my own text after it's been
>> out and back in). I did try to understand it - IIRR it involves "hard
>> and soft returns" - but gave up. (I tend to ignore some posters.)
>
>'IIRR it involves "hard and soft returns"'. As I understand it, the
>"IIRR 72 (80 for signatures)" that you refer to, is the 'soft return',
>inserted for you by the software you are using, whereas when you hit
>'Carriage Return' at the end of a paragraph .. that is a 'hard return'.

Yes, but when _most_ people quote me, and I see their quotes, my line
breaks - whether manually inserted by me or automatically by my software
- are retained. (Once it's gone out, is there any way to tell - apart
from context, of course - which is which anyway?)

That doesn't explain why, with autowrap turned on, some people's posts
still don't (when I'm _reading_).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The average age at which a woman has her first child has passed 30.
Jason Cowley, RT 2016/6/11-17

In message <u95uj8$1knsf$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 18 Jul 2023 21:55:21,
Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes
[]
>It might suit NY to install the Linux OS to Dual-Boot with his Win7 (as
>I do) so he can acclimatize to the Linux OS without loosing his Win7
>just yet!

Losing. (Loosing is what you do when you set the dogs on me for
correcting you.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The average age at which a woman has her first child has passed 30.
Jason Cowley, RT 2016/6/11-17

J. P. Gilliver wrote on 18/7/23 11:29 pm:
> In message <u95u9v$1km9e$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 18 Jul 2023 21:50:24,
> Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes
>> J. P. Gilliver wrote on 18/7/23 7:02 am:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> I (my name's John, by the way) have my outgoing text set to wrap at
>>> IIRR 72 (80 for signatures); I also have my newsreader set to
>>> autowrap incoming text. Despite that, some posts still require
>>> horizontal scrolling (sometimes including my own text after it's been
>>> out and back in). I did try to understand it - IIRR it involves "hard
>>> and soft returns" - but gave up. (I tend to ignore some posters.)
>>
>> 'IIRR it involves "hard and soft returns"'. As I understand it, the
>> "IIRR 72 (80 for signatures)" that you refer to, is the 'soft return',
>> inserted for you by the software you are using, whereas when you hit
>> 'Carriage Return' at the end of a paragraph .. that is a 'hard return'.
>
> Yes, but when _most_ people quote me, and I see their quotes, my line
> breaks - whether manually inserted by me or automatically by my software
> - are retained. (Once it's gone out, is there any way to tell - apart
> from context, of course - which is which anyway?)
>
> That doesn't explain why, with autowrap turned on, some people's posts
> still don't (when I'm _reading_).

And, as I read your reply, my post (to which you were responding) in
your reply showed as two short lines and one long line which then
wrapped at my screen's edge!!

Strange things are happening!!
--
Daniel

J. P. Gilliver wrote on 18/7/23 11:31 pm:
> In message <u95uj8$1knsf$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 18 Jul 2023 21:55:21,
> Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes
> []
>> It might suit NY to install the Linux OS to Dual-Boot with his Win7
>> (as I do) so he can acclimatize to the Linux OS without loosing his
>> Win7 just yet!
>
> Losing. (Loosing is what you do when you set the dogs on me for
> correcting you.)

Don't you just hate it when the incorrect word that you use is a word
itself?? ;-P
--
Daniel

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 21:55:21 +1000
Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> Johnny wrote on 18/7/23 12:15 am:
> > On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:17:28 +0100
> > "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Ok, I know I should upgrade my Win 7 PC to Win 10. That would be a
> >> lot of effort, reinstalling and reconfiguring things *when* (not
> >> *if*) the upgrade process gets it wrong. Let's get that discussion
> >> out of the way first!
> >>
> >> I've just noticed that the bottom of maximised windows (Firefox, MS
> >> Office apps, Windows Explorer etc) have started being hidden behind
> >> the taskbar (which is at the bottom, with auto-hide turned off).
> >> This never used to happen. I'm not aware of anything I've changed.
> >>
> >> Just to reiterate: the taskbar is on top; a lot of the articles
> >> I've seen about this symptom have the app on top of the taskbar.
> >>
> >> It's a nuisance if I hover over a web link in Firefox because the
> >> URL that pops up at the bottom is off the screen, and the tab
> >> names in an Excel spreadsheet are similarly off-screen.
> >>
> >> I've tried right-clicking on the taskbar, changing its position
> >> from "bottom" to "top" and back again, which some people suggested
> >> might fix it. Not for me.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions?
> >
> > I suggest MX Linux. I moved to Linux when Windows 8 came out and
> > have never regretted it. It's as close to Windows 7 as you will
> > get.
> >
> > Move the panel to the bottom and you will be comfortable. That can
> > be done using the MX Tweak tool found in the menu.
> >
> > XFCE is the best.
> >
> > https://mxlinux.org/
> >
> It might suit NY to install the Linux OS to Dual-Boot with his Win7
> (as I do) so he can acclimatize to the Linux OS without loosing his
> Win7 just yet!

I did that until I found out how much easier it was to just use Linux
Mint. No trouble with updates taking so long, or being nagged about
them. You can install them or not, and it doesn't take long to do it.

When I started using Linux, I had to learn to use the terminal. It's
no longer necessary.

With MX Linux or Linux Mint, you just install it and start using it.

Plus you no longer have Microsoft looking over your shoulder, and
watching everything you do. It's now you own computer and operating
system.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 22:02:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <l9labilmb6haffi6oom0fnb0fr5u0b49ln@4ax.com> at Mon, 17 Jul
>2023 09:54:06, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> writes
>>On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 09:58:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 7/17/2023 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>[]
>>>> As for moving to W10 - noting you've posted here and only here,
>>>>there are plenty of us who have no intention of doing so, in some
>>>>cases ever, in other cases on current hardware. (Your concerns about
>>>>the - for normal users - unstoppable "up"grade process causing
>>>>problems are _probably_ mitigating somewhat - I think 10 is
>>>>approaching where XP and 7 were/are, i. e. only bugfixes, but I still
>>>>wouldn't change a W7 machine to W10.)
>>>
>>>There were weird behaviors with the Task Bar like that, on WinXP.
>>>
>>>As for the longevity of Windows 7, two browser suppliers claim their
>>>products no longer will be produced for Windows 7. Whether this is a
>
>Updated (-:
>
>>>switch to Vulkan or something else used for leverage, I don't know.
>>>W7 and W81 were removed, in the same announcement.
>>>
>>>If you can function without browsers, then, great.
>
>Well, I'm mostly using Chrome, which I think we were told some time ago
>was no longer supported in 7. Quick look: it says
>
>To get future Google Chrome updates, you'll need Windows 10 or later.
>This computer is using Windows 7. Learn more
>Version 109.0.5414.120 (Official Build) (32-bit)
>
>. (Doesn't give a date, but I think I've seen that text for some time.)
>>>
>>>They will continue to evolve web standards,
>>>for the express purpose of breaking your existing browser.
>
>I really resent that. It's like developing a new type of petrol
>(gasoline), or road surface, that old^Wexisting cars can't use. Of
>course, they'll avoid any legal attempts to stop them by ...
>
>>>There are lots of web sites that do "browser sniffing" for
>>>the express purpose of not serving old browsers. The plugin
>>>is presumably provided "by the usual big company".
>
>... invoking the great god Security. Which I think is almost entirely a
>red herring.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>Why is the text running unrestricted to the right in the above posts?
>>I thought it was because the poster didn't have word wrap set
>>properly, but J. P. Gilliver should know how to do that as much as he
>>posts and his post runs over too.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>
>I (my name's John, by the way) have my outgoing text set to wrap at IIRR
>72 (80 for signatures); I also have my newsreader set to autowrap
>incoming text. Despite that, some posts still require horizontal
>scrolling (sometimes including my own text after it's been out and back
>in). I did try to understand it - IIRR it involves "hard and soft
>returns" - but gave up. (I tend to ignore some posters.)

Hi John. As you can see, everything in this post is visible without
scrolling right. 99% of the posts that I view are ok but the one I
replied to was a mess. Had to scroll about 3 page right to read all of
your reply. Not a normal occurrence for your posts so that's why I
asked.

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

On 18/07/2023 17:36, Johnny wrote:
>
>>> I suggest MX Linux. I moved to Linux when Windows 8 came out and
>>> have never regretted it.

You are a genius who now spends all available time on a Windows Newsgroups.

> I did that until I found out how much easier it was to just use Linux
> Mint.

Another sign that you are a highly talented person who spends time
helping windows users.

>
> When I started using Linux,

you started spending time on Windows newsgroups.

>
> With MX Linux or Linux Mint, you just install it and start using it.
wonderful. what do you use it for?

>
> Plus you no longer have Microsoft looking over your shoulder, and
> watching everything you do.

That's very useful for Windows users to know. We can now get on with
linux stuff.

>

Johnny wrote on 19/7/23 2:36 am:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 21:55:21 +1000
> Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

<Snip>

>> It might suit NY to install the Linux OS to Dual-Boot with his Win7
>> (as I do) so he can acclimatize to the Linux OS without loosing his
>> Win7 just yet!
>
> I did that until I found out how much easier it was to just use Linux
> Mint. No trouble with updates taking so long, or being nagged about
> them. You can install them or not, and it doesn't take long to do it.
>
> When I started using Linux, I had to learn to use the terminal. It's
> no longer necessary.
>
> With MX Linux or Linux Mint, you just install it and start using it.
>
> Plus you no longer have Microsoft looking over your shoulder, and
> watching everything you do. It's now you own computer and operating
> system.
>
Back in about 2009, when I brought this second hand Laptop which had
Win7 WOW64 installed on the HD, I divided the Hard Drive so I could
install MandrakeLinux Ver 10.1 (about a month before Mandrake closed
shop) on the HD as well.

I've since installed MandraviaLinux, and three versions of MageiaLinux
as well.

MageiaLinux is my main OS. I usually just boot up Win7 WOW64 to update
the Anti-Virus each Wednesday .... you know, just in case I stuff my
Linux and have to switch to Win7 to keep things going. ;-P
--
Daniel