I've been bust with work details so haven't had time to run Steam and
play any games I've purchased over the years. The other day I started
Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will no
longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which Steam
apparently uses.

The thing is, all my games currently work on Steam even after Chrome has
has already stopped updating Chrome. In fact, I can play the games now
if in offline mode so why shouldn't it still work past EOY? This seems
to suggest that the existing games one has such still work and only
their online web sites may present problems.

Can anyone provide more details of what's going on here. If true, this
seems wrong. It's like Sony or Microsoft cutting off game play on games
consumers had purchased on their consoles when they came out with a new
console.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish wrote:

> I've been bust with work details so haven't had time to run Steam and
> play any games I've purchased over the years. The other day I started
> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will no
> longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which Steam
> apparently uses.
>
> The thing is, all my games currently work on Steam even after Chrome has
> has already stopped updating Chrome. In fact, I can play the games now
> if in offline mode so why shouldn't it still work past EOY? This seems
> to suggest that the existing games one has such still work and only
> their online web sites may present problems.
>
> Can anyone provide more details of what's going on here. If true, this
> seems wrong. It's like Sony or Microsoft cutting off game play on games
> consumers had purchased on their consoles when they came out with a new
> console.

The short version is, it's one less OS they want to worry about supporting.
Today happens to be the 14th anniversary of 7's RTM, and that is pretty old
in computing. The games might still work, but Steam itself will refuse to
run. (Personally, I'm still salty about Steam's end of support for MacOS
10.6...)

--
Watching government regulators trying to keep up with the world
is my favorite sport.

Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 11:20 AM:
> Sailfish wrote:
>
>> I've been bust with work details so haven't had time to run Steam and
>> play any games I've purchased over the years. The other day I started
>> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will no
>> longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which Steam
>> apparently uses.
>>
>> The thing is, all my games currently work on Steam even after Chrome has
>> has already stopped updating Chrome. In fact, I can play the games now
>> if in offline mode so why shouldn't it still work past EOY? This seems
>> to suggest that the existing games one has such still work and only
>> their online web sites may present problems.
>>
>> Can anyone provide more details of what's going on here. If true, this
>> seems wrong. It's like Sony or Microsoft cutting off game play on games
>> consumers had purchased on their consoles when they came out with a new
>> console.
>
> The short version is, it's one less OS they want to worry about supporting.
> Today happens to be the 14th anniversary of 7's RTM, and that is pretty old
> in computing. The games might still work, but Steam itself will refuse to
> run. (Personally, I'm still salty about Steam's end of support for MacOS
> 10.6...)
>
Thanks, if the games I purchased still worked in offline mode after EOY
I wouldn't be upset since I only play in Campaign mode rather than online.

Did your games still work in Campaign mode after Steam ended support for
(MacOS 10.6...)?

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@nixcapsunforgettable.com> wrote:
....
> Thanks, if the games I purchased still worked in offline mode after EOY
> I wouldn't be upset since I only play in Campaign mode rather than online.

> Did your games still work in Campaign mode after Steam ended support for
> (MacOS 10.6...)?

Take your computer offline from the Internet and see if those games still work. That should give you an idea.
--
"[The Lord, the everlasting God,] gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak." --Isaiah 40:29. Lots of humans outside after a BUSY very warmy outty worky Fri. 1883 ep. #6 was a meh.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Sailfish wrote:

> Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 11:20 AM:
>> Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>> I've been bust with work details so haven't had time to run Steam and
>>> play any games I've purchased over the years. The other day I started
>>> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will
>>> no longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which
>>> Steam apparently uses.
>>>
>>> The thing is, all my games currently work on Steam even after Chrome
>>> has has already stopped updating Chrome. In fact, I can play the games
>>> now if in offline mode so why shouldn't it still work past EOY? This
>>> seems to suggest that the existing games one has such still work and
>>> only their online web sites may present problems.
>>>
>>> Can anyone provide more details of what's going on here. If true, this
>>> seems wrong. It's like Sony or Microsoft cutting off game play on
>>> games consumers had purchased on their consoles when they came out
>>> with a new console.
>>
>> The short version is, it's one less OS they want to worry about
>> supporting. Today happens to be the 14th anniversary of 7's RTM, and
>> that is pretty old in computing. The games might still work, but Steam
>> itself will refuse to run. (Personally, I'm still salty about Steam's
>> end of support for MacOS 10.6...)
>>
> Thanks, if the games I purchased still worked in offline mode after EOY
> I wouldn't be upset since I only play in Campaign mode rather than
> online.
>
> Did your games still work in Campaign mode after Steam ended support for
> (MacOS 10.6...)?

It's been a very long time since I gave it any thought, and since I no
longer have Steam on 10.6 I couldn't really say. I wasn't able to launch the
games through the Steam interface and I didn't really think about launching
them outside of Steam, so [shrug].

I do know that *most* of my games work under Windows without even installing
Steam, if I copied them off another install to a computer without Steam
installed, but YMMV. (Working: Baldur's Gate and related games, other old
games not originally released for Steam. Not working: I don't remember
because I have Steam installed here, but as Ant said, try offline mode.)

--
- We must embrace our failures and learn from them.
- That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
- How's the learning coming along?

Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 7:08 PM:
> Sailfish wrote:
>
>> Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 11:20 AM:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been bust with work details so haven't had time to run Steam and
>>>> play any games I've purchased over the years. The other day I started
>>>> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will
>>>> no longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which
>>>> Steam apparently uses.
>>>>
>>>> The thing is, all my games currently work on Steam even after Chrome
>>>> has has already stopped updating Chrome. In fact, I can play the games
>>>> now if in offline mode so why shouldn't it still work past EOY? This
>>>> seems to suggest that the existing games one has such still work and
>>>> only their online web sites may present problems.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone provide more details of what's going on here. If true, this
>>>> seems wrong. It's like Sony or Microsoft cutting off game play on
>>>> games consumers had purchased on their consoles when they came out
>>>> with a new console.
>>> The short version is, it's one less OS they want to worry about
>>> supporting. Today happens to be the 14th anniversary of 7's RTM, and
>>> that is pretty old in computing. The games might still work, but Steam
>>> itself will refuse to run. (Personally, I'm still salty about Steam's
>>> end of support for MacOS 10.6...)
>>>
>> Thanks, if the games I purchased still worked in offline mode after EOY
>> I wouldn't be upset since I only play in Campaign mode rather than
>> online.
>>
>> Did your games still work in Campaign mode after Steam ended support for
>> (MacOS 10.6...)?
>
> It's been a very long time since I gave it any thought, and since I no
> longer have Steam on 10.6 I couldn't really say. I wasn't able to launch the
> games through the Steam interface and I didn't really think about launching
> them outside of Steam, so [shrug].
>
> I do know that *most* of my games work under Windows without even installing
> Steam, if I copied them off another install to a computer without Steam
> installed, but YMMV. (Working: Baldur's Gate and related games, other old
> games not originally released for Steam. Not working: I don't remember
> because I have Steam installed here, but as Ant said, try offline mode.)
>
Auric, Ant, yes, the ones I have installed still work in offline mode so
that's reassuring but I've got at least 40 games that are uninstalled
but sill on Steam's server so as not to lard up my machine with
installing them until I decide to play them again. So if Steam relies on
Chrome for their web interface and they desupport Win7 at EOY then
their's the real possibility that I won't be able to log into Steam to
download them when I want to play them in the future. Additionally, even
for the ones I current have installed, Steam still updates them
periodically (as an example, Steam just redownloaded and reinstalled
Halo - The Master Chief Collection when I started the game recently) so
there's still the possibility that they've included a deactivate time
bomb in new download updates.

Ugh! Well, I'll just have to mess with my rig and attempt to install a
dual boot copy of my Win7 system and then upgrade it to Win10. Normally,
this would be a breeze but my existing Win7 is split between two
volumes, the Win7 OS files on my low storage / fast access SSD and all
my installed programs (including Steam programs) on my high storage /
lower speed hard drive. I'll need to spend time to see if I can place
the Win7 OS files and the installed programs+data files together on one
drive (having two partitions) and hope I can get it to work and upgrade
that to Win10 just so I can have it for Steam and gaming.

Kind of a real mess fraught with lost time and nervous juxtaposing.

le sigh

Thanks

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

> The other day I started
> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will no
> longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which Steam
> apparently uses.

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A

I don't use any of the features in Steam that require using a web
browser. Other than checking if there is a newer version of a game, and
perhaps checking licenses, I don't online stuff with Steam. No scoring
recording, cloud saves, achievement tracking, socially-needy crap, and
friend messaging (I have no friends in games -- I go solo). I don't
play community games (multi-player), or online/cloud games.

As I recall, you can run Steam in offline mode. I think you got a nag
about going online after a while.

https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-use-steam-offline-mode/

I haven't run Steam for a long time (many months), so I don't know if
I'll see a popup warning about using a pre-Win10 operating system, plus
I'm on Windows 10. Wonder when Steam will drop Windows 10 support which
dies in October 2025. The 22H2 build that I'm on now is supposedly that
last build for Windows 10.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro

Since Steam is tying their support to the Chrome web browser, they could
end support for Win10 before its support ends just because, gee, Google
made yet another change to its proprietary code components.

Sailfish wrote:

> Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 7:08 PM:
>> Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>> Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 11:20 AM:
>>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been bust with work details so haven't had time to run Steam
>>>>> and play any games I've purchased over the years. The other day I
>>>>> started Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY
>>>>> they will no longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome
>>>>> desupport which Steam apparently uses.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing is, all my games currently work on Steam even after Chrome
>>>>> has has already stopped updating Chrome. In fact, I can play the
>>>>> games now if in offline mode so why shouldn't it still work past
>>>>> EOY? This seems to suggest that the existing games one has such
>>>>> still work and only their online web sites may present problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone provide more details of what's going on here. If true,
>>>>> this seems wrong. It's like Sony or Microsoft cutting off game play
>>>>> on games consumers had purchased on their consoles when they came
>>>>> out with a new console.
>>>> The short version is, it's one less OS they want to worry about
>>>> supporting. Today happens to be the 14th anniversary of 7's RTM, and
>>>> that is pretty old in computing. The games might still work, but
>>>> Steam itself will refuse to run. (Personally, I'm still salty about
>>>> Steam's end of support for MacOS 10.6...)
>>>>
>>> Thanks, if the games I purchased still worked in offline mode after
>>> EOY I wouldn't be upset since I only play in Campaign mode rather than
>>> online.
>>>
>>> Did your games still work in Campaign mode after Steam ended support
>>> for (MacOS 10.6...)?
>>
>> It's been a very long time since I gave it any thought, and since I no
>> longer have Steam on 10.6 I couldn't really say. I wasn't able to
>> launch the games through the Steam interface and I didn't really think
>> about launching them outside of Steam, so [shrug].
>>
>> I do know that *most* of my games work under Windows without even
>> installing Steam, if I copied them off another install to a computer
>> without Steam installed, but YMMV. (Working: Baldur's Gate and related
>> games, other old games not originally released for Steam. Not working:
>> I don't remember because I have Steam installed here, but as Ant said,
>> try offline mode.)
>>
> Auric, Ant, yes, the ones I have installed still work in offline mode so
> that's reassuring but I've got at least 40 games that are uninstalled
> but sill on Steam's server so as not to lard up my machine with
> installing them until I decide to play them again. So if Steam relies on
> Chrome for their web interface and they desupport Win7 at EOY then
> their's the real possibility that I won't be able to log into Steam to
> download them when I want to play them in the future. Additionally, even
> for the ones I current have installed, Steam still updates them
> periodically (as an example, Steam just redownloaded and reinstalled
> Halo - The Master Chief Collection when I started the game recently) so
> there's still the possibility that they've included a deactivate time
> bomb in new download updates.
>
> Ugh! Well, I'll just have to mess with my rig and attempt to install a
> dual boot copy of my Win7 system and then upgrade it to Win10. Normally,
> this would be a breeze but my existing Win7 is split between two
> volumes, the Win7 OS files on my low storage / fast access SSD and all
> my installed programs (including Steam programs) on my high storage /
> lower speed hard drive. I'll need to spend time to see if I can place
> the Win7 OS files and the installed programs+data files together on one
> drive (having two partitions) and hope I can get it to work and upgrade
> that to Win10 just so I can have it for Steam and gaming.
>
> Kind of a real mess fraught with lost time and nervous juxtaposing.
>
> le sigh
>
> Thanks

Buy an external USB3 hard drive. (Not USB2; way too slow.) Make sure it's
*big* -- as big as you can afford, but certainly big enough for your entire
Steam library. Set up a new Steam library folder on it. Install *all* of
your games there that you don't have installed elsewhere.

--
Jesus - Now Peanut Free!

VanguardLH graced us with on 7/23/2023 11:52 PM:
> Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> The other day I started
>> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will no
>> longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which Steam
>> apparently uses.
>
> https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A
>
> I don't use any of the features in Steam that require using a web
> browser. Other than checking if there is a newer version of a game, and
> perhaps checking licenses, I don't online stuff with Steam. No scoring
> recording, cloud saves, achievement tracking, socially-needy crap, and
> friend messaging (I have no friends in games -- I go solo). I don't
> play community games (multi-player), or online/cloud games.
>
> As I recall, you can run Steam in offline mode. I think you got a nag
> about going online after a while.
>
> https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-use-steam-offline-mode/
>
> I haven't run Steam for a long time (many months), so I don't know if
> I'll see a popup warning about using a pre-Win10 operating system, plus
> I'm on Windows 10. Wonder when Steam will drop Windows 10 support which
> dies in October 2025. The 22H2 build that I'm on now is supposedly that
> last build for Windows 10.
>
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro
>
> Since Steam is tying their support to the Chrome web browser, they could
> end support for Win10 before its support ends just because, gee, Google
> made yet another change to its proprietary code components.

Yes, offline mode works, for now, but there's still the chance they may
have time-bombed them. I do have a few USB3 4-5TB drives I could use to
download them but before I go that route, I'm going to try mirroring my
existing Win7Pro to another hard drive and set up a dual boot option.
Then, I'll upgrade the mirror'd Win7Pro to W10, just in case the offline
method stops working.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 01:52:45 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> The other day I started
>> Steam and noticed a prominent banner warning that come EOY they will no
>> longer support Win7 and blame it on Google Chrome desupport which Steam
>> apparently uses.
>
> https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A
>
> I don't use any of the features in Steam that require using a web
> browser. Other than checking if there is a newer version of a game, and
> perhaps checking licenses, I don't online stuff with Steam. No scoring
> recording, cloud saves, achievement tracking, socially-needy crap, and
> friend messaging (I have no friends in games -- I go solo). I don't
> play community games (multi-player), or online/cloud games.
>
> As I recall, you can run Steam in offline mode. I think you got a nag
> about going online after a while.
>
> https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-use-steam-offline-mode/
>
> I haven't run Steam for a long time (many months), so I don't know if
> I'll see a popup warning about using a pre-Win10 operating system, plus
> I'm on Windows 10. Wonder when Steam will drop Windows 10 support which
> dies in October 2025. The 22H2 build that I'm on now is supposedly that
> last build for Windows 10.
>
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro
>
> Since Steam is tying their support to the Chrome web browser, they could
> end support for Win10 before its support ends just because, gee, Google
> made yet another change to its proprietary code components.

How can we download and install free games from Steam store without needing
the Steam application?

Sailfish graced us with on 7/23/2023 1:01 AM:
> Auric__ graced us with on 7/22/2023 7:08 PM:

> Auric, Ant, yes, the ones I have installed still work in offline mode so
> that's reassuring but I've got at least 40 games that are uninstalled
> but sill on Steam's server so as not to lard up my machine with
> installing them until I decide to play them again. So if Steam relies on
> Chrome for their web interface and they desupport Win7 at EOY then
> their's the real possibility that I won't be able to log into Steam to
> download them when I want to play them in the future. Additionally, even
> for the ones I current have installed, Steam still updates them
> periodically (as an example, Steam just redownloaded and reinstalled
> Halo - The Master Chief Collection when I started the game recently) so
> there's still the possibility that they've included a deactivate time
> bomb in new download updates.
>
> Ugh! Well, I'll just have to mess with my rig and attempt to install a
> dual boot copy of my Win7 system and then upgrade it to Win10. Normally,
> this would be a breeze but my existing Win7 is split between two
> volumes, the Win7 OS files on my low storage / fast access SSD and all
> my installed programs (including Steam programs) on my high storage /
> lower speed hard drive. I'll need to spend time to see if I can place
> the Win7 OS files and the installed programs+data files together on one
> drive (having two partitions) and hope I can get it to work and upgrade
> that to Win10 just so I can have it for Steam and gaming.
>
> Kind of a real mess fraught with lost time and nervous juxtaposing.
>
tl;dr
Some nervousness and re-reading tech sources several times but, in the
end, it worked and was simpler than I'd expected.

I will post how I did it in a separate post once I write it all down for
anyone who might be interested.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

> Some nervousness and re-reading tech sources several times but, in the
> end, it worked and was simpler than I'd expected.
>
> I will post how I did it in a separate post once I write it all down for
> anyone who might be interested.

I'm on Windows 10, but still interested how to get past their de-support
since Windows 10 support expires in 2 years, and maybe Steam will be
dumping support for Windows 10, too.

VanguardLH wrote:

> Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> Some nervousness and re-reading tech sources several times but, in the
>> end, it worked and was simpler than I'd expected.
>>
>> I will post how I did it in a separate post once I write it all down for
>> anyone who might be interested.
>
> I'm on Windows 10, but still interested how to get past their de-support
> since Windows 10 support expires in 2 years, and maybe Steam will be
> dumping support for Windows 10, too.

Not immediately, but yes, they will eventually drop 10. Probably a year or
two after official support ends. Hopefully something better than 11 comes
along before then.

--
Bear with me. Certainty is not at hand.

VanguardLH graced us with on 7/25/2023 11:12 PM:
> Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> Some nervousness and re-reading tech sources several times but, in the
>> end, it worked and was simpler than I'd expected.
>>
>> I will post how I did it in a separate post once I write it all down for
>> anyone who might be interested.
>
> I'm on Windows 10, but still interested how to get past their de-support
> since Windows 10 support expires in 2 years, and maybe Steam will be
> dumping support for Windows 10, too.

Will your current system pass the Firmware compatibility requirements of
Win 11, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11#Firmware_compatibility

If so, the dual option may be possible.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On 7/26/23 03:04, Auric__ wrote:

[snip]

> Not immediately, but yes, they will eventually drop 10. Probably a year or
> two after official support ends. Hopefully something better than 11 comes
> along before then.

Considering what's happening with Windows, I expect another version. As
to "better", that's different.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Of course, we cannot guarantee our Bibles against normal wear or
abuse." [Oxford University Press]

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

> Auric__ wrote:
>
>> Not immediately, but yes, they will eventually drop 10. Probably a
>> year or two after official support ends. Hopefully something better
>> than 11 comes along before then.
>
> Considering what's happening with Windows, I expect another version.
> As to "better", that's different.

As to acceptanced (accepted or panned) of NT-based versions of Windows,
the following patterned occurred:

Windows XP: accepted
Windows Vista: panned
Windows 7: accepted
Windows 8: panned
Windows 10: accepted
Windows 11: panned

Windows 3.1, 4, and 2000 were omitted because they were primarily
oriented to workstations in a domain environment on corporate networks.

According to the pattern above, best to wait for Windows 12.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-11-home-and-pro

Microsoft doesn't specify when is end of support for Windows 11 in that
article. Windows 10 support dies in 2025. For Windows 10:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro

That shows a 10-year lifecycle for Windows 10. Used to be 6 years, but
"Windows as a service" has extended the support lifecycle. If 10 years
is what Microsoft now goes with for lifecycle, Windows 11 support dies
in 2031. So, we have up to another 8 years left on Windows 11 before
Windows 12 show up. Yet there are articles predicting Windows 12 will
show up in March 2024.

https://arogyabharti2021.in/windows-12-release-date-features/

I have deliberately disabled Intel's PTT (Platform Trust Technology)
firmware code in my BIOS which emulates the hardware TPM chip. The
result is Windows Update never bothers to offer me an "upgrade" to
Windows 11. If I wanted to move to Windows 12 (which won't be for a 2
to 3 years after its release), I'd have to reenable the Intel PTT code
in my BIOS that emulates the TPM chip, as TPM is a requirement for
Windows 12. I do NOT have Secure Boot enabled in BIOS, and don't want
it, but Windows 12 may demand it. The "multiple home screens" options
sounds like how Android phones used to have a home screen, and secondary
screens, but now all of the multiple screens are home screens.

Microsoft keeps taking away. Users complain. Microsoft puts back some
of what it took away. The Taskbar is slated to return in Windows 12,
but probably the "new" taskbar will be different than the old taskbar in
Windows 10. Microsoft tried to push their CorePC to modularize the OS.
Core OS faded, but is coming back as CorePC, and perhaps in Windows 12.

https://root-nation.com/en/articles-en/windows-en/en-corepc-microsoft/

Too early to tell if Windows 12 will be a panned or accepted version of
Windows. The users will decide, so status won't be known until about a
couple years after release.

"Auric__" <not.my.real@email.address> on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 08:04:45
-0000 (UTC) typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>
>> I'm on Windows 10, but still interested how to get past their de-support
>> since Windows 10 support expires in 2 years, and maybe Steam will be
>> dumping support for Windows 10, too.
>
>Not immediately, but yes, they will eventually drop 10. Probably a year or
>two after official support ends. Hopefully something better than 11 comes
>along before then.

Past performance is no indicator of future performance.

But that is the way to bet.

(IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
the "customer" might desire.)
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

pyotr filipivich wrote:

> "Auric__" <not.my.real@email.address> on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 08:04:45
> -0000 (UTC) typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>>
>>> I'm on Windows 10, but still interested how to get past their de-support
>>> since Windows 10 support expires in 2 years, and maybe Steam will be
>>> dumping support for Windows 10, too.
>>
>>Not immediately, but yes, they will eventually drop 10. Probably a year or
>>two after official support ends. Hopefully something better than 11 comes
>>along before then.
>
> Past performance is no indicator of future performance.
>
> But that is the way to bet.
>
> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
> the "customer" might desire.)

Indeed. 10 may very well be the last version I use.

--
Since when do you have an elf?

In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
[]
>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>> the "customer" might desire.)
>
>Indeed. 10 may very well be the last version I use.
>
I've heard that said since at least '98, and said it myself for at least
98SE, XP, and now 7.

Thinking back, I can't now _really_ remember what - from the actual user
point of view - made me eventually change. Looking forward, the only
thing I can think of is hardware wearout, combined with the inability to
find old-compatible replacement - but I'm sure I've thought and said
that before.

The only other thing is web site "development" that means they won't
work with older browsers, and newer browsers won't work with older OSs.
It's not reached that stage for 7-32 yet, but presumably will.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
> 26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
> []
>>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>>> the "customer" might desire.)
>>
>>Indeed. 10 may very well be the last version I use.
>
> I've heard that said since at least '98, and said it myself for at least
> 98SE, XP, and now 7.

I've never said it before now. It was always just "I'm not using this new
version, I'll wait for the next version." I skipped Vista and 8, I would
have skipped XP but got hardware that didn't support 2000, etc.

> Thinking back, I can't now _really_ remember what - from the actual user
> point of view - made me eventually change. Looking forward, the only
> thing I can think of is hardware wearout, combined with the inability to
> find old-compatible replacement - but I'm sure I've thought and said
> that before.

I switched from XP to 7 to avoid 8 (because reasons). I switched to 10 when
7 support ended, not because I needed to but because my nephew talked me
into it (and now I have a machine that lacks 7 drivers).

Personally, I could switch to Linux without issue, I'm just more comfortable
on Windows -- and since I mostly write Windows programs, it makes sense to
do it on actual Windows rather than Wine. (Yes, emulation, but still.)

> The only other thing is web site "development" that means they won't
> work with older browsers, and newer browsers won't work with older OSs.
> It's not reached that stage for 7-32 yet, but presumably will.

I wish Opera still updated their old Presto engine. I much prefered it over
pretty much anything else.

--
What our audience is thinking:
...I wonder if that's all true?

J. P. Gilliver graced us with on 7/26/2023 1:29 PM:
> In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
> 26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
> []
>>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>>> the "customer" might desire.)
>>
>> Indeed. 10 may very well be the last version I use.
>>
> I've heard that said since at least '98, and said it myself for at least
> 98SE, XP, and now 7.
>
> Thinking back, I can't now _really_ remember what - from the actual user
> point of view - made me eventually change. Looking forward, the only
> thing I can think of is hardware wearout, combined with the inability to
> find old-compatible replacement - but I'm sure I've thought and said
> that before.
>
> The only other thing is web site "development" that means they won't
> work with older browsers, and newer browsers won't work with older OSs.
> It's not reached that stage for 7-32 yet, but presumably will.

While still testing, performing a Win7 dual boot by cloning my existing
Win7 OS to another installed hardrive and then upgrading the cloned Win7
to Win10 looks pretty good so far. The nice thing about it is that I
didn't have to reinstall all my existing programs AND even the
registered ones I've tested like Office 2016 still wok fine on either
system.

I was putting this off but, as you said, once Google desupported Win7,
all the other browsers, and programs that depend on it (such as Steam)
forced to hasten the dual boot option.

Still, I detest Win10 for a variety of reasons that have been listed on
these forums by myself and many others, so I will stay with Win7 as my
GoTo OS as long as I can hold out.

There won't be a Win11 dual boot option for my rig since it doesn't
support TPM but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 21:29:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
>26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
>[]
>>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>>> the "customer" might desire.)
>>
>>Indeed.

There's a lot of truth in that, but I don't completely agree.
Microsoft *does* do a lot of research on what customers want and
like.

>>10 may very well be the last version I use.
>>
>I've heard that said since at least '98,

Me too, It's a very common statement, but it rarely turns out to be
true for anyone.

> and said it myself for at least
>98SE, XP, and now 7.

But I've never said it. I always try to use the latest version, for
two reasons (I've probably said this here before):

1. I know that it won't be too long before I'll need or desire a new
piece of hardware or software that won't run on the older version.

2. If I eventually upgrade to a newer version, but skip a version of
two. the changes from what I'm used to are likely to be significantly
bigger and take longer to learn and adapt to.

So I'm running Windows 11, and with a couple of third-party
interface-improving utilities (mostly Start11 and WinAeroTweaker), I'm
happy with it. If you have to use a new version out of the box, some
versions (going from 7 to 8, for example) can be very difficult to
adapt to.

>Thinking back, I can't now _really_ remember what - from the actual user
>point of view - made me eventually change. Looking forward, the only
>thing I can think of is hardware wearout, combined with the inability to
>find old-compatible replacement

Yes, a major factor for most people.

>- but I'm sure I've thought and said
>that before.
>
>The only other thing is web site "development" that means they won't
>work with older browsers, and newer browsers won't work with older OSs.
>It's not reached that stage for 7-32 yet, but presumably will.

It always does. It's like "do I need a backup?" It's a question of
when, not whether.

In message <b475cil7qf7nrlf4udsu3mpmq9r9tfv4v7@4ax.com> at Thu, 27 Jul
2023 09:49:55, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> writes
>On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 21:29:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
>>26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
>>[]
>>>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>>>> the "customer" might desire.)
>>>
>>>Indeed.
>
>There's a lot of truth in that, but I don't completely agree.
>Microsoft *does* do a lot of research on what customers want and
>like.
>
And then totally ignore it! (Sorry, couldn't resist. They do _sometimes_
pay attention - but implement what we want in a way that's very
convoluted.)
>
>>>10 may very well be the last version I use.
>>>
>>I've heard that said since at least '98,
>
>Me too, It's a very common statement, but it rarely turns out to be
>true for anyone.
>
>
>> and said it myself for at least
>>98SE, XP, and now 7.
>
>But I've never said it. I always try to use the latest version, for
>two reasons (I've probably said this here before):
>
>1. I know that it won't be too long before I'll need or desire a new
>piece of hardware or software that won't run on the older version.

I can't imagine _desiring_ any hardware I haven't got. I may _need_, if
something fails. And as for software, I don't think I've even wanted -
let alone needed - anything I don't already have, for some years.
>
>2. If I eventually upgrade to a newer version, but skip a version of
>two. the changes from what I'm used to are likely to be significantly
>bigger and take longer to learn and adapt to.

It pays to remain _aware_ of the later versions. Whether you allocate a
significant amount of time to this, or just accept you'll have a big
lump of effort if/when you change, is a matter for personal choice ...
>
>So I'm running Windows 11, and with a couple of third-party
>interface-improving utilities (mostly Start11 and WinAeroTweaker), I'm

.... especially if you can find some UI tweakers that get you back to (or
close to) where you were.

>happy with it. If you have to use a new version out of the box, some
>versions (going from 7 to 8, for example) can be very difficult to
>adapt to.
>
8 was (initially) horrible. Probably fine for new users; most existing
users stayed with their XP at that point, with a few staying at 7. If MS
(it's a monopoly in all but name) bring out a version that's
sufficiently bad, they _have_ to fix it.
>
>
>>Thinking back, I can't now _really_ remember what - from the actual user
>>point of view - made me eventually change. Looking forward, the only
>>thing I can think of is hardware wearout, combined with the inability to
>>find old-compatible replacement
>
>
>Yes, a major factor for most people.

Well, for unusual reasons, I had to get a computer earlier this year. I
didn't have a _great_ deal of trouble finding a 7-32 machine (and I'm
still actually enjoying using it: it's responsive, and better in some
respects than my previous 7-32 machine).
>
>>- but I'm sure I've thought and said
>>that before.
>>
>>The only other thing is web site "development" that means they won't
>>work with older browsers, and newer browsers won't work with older OSs.
>>It's not reached that stage for 7-32 yet, but presumably will.
>
>
>It always does. It's like "do I need a backup?" It's a question of
>when, not whether.

We don't have to _like_ it, though. (Do you change your car every 3
years or less, too? [That's a viable approach, just not the one I
follow.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We're not poor, we just don't have any money.
- Brenda Blethyn's mother quoted in RT 2021/8/28-9/3

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 21:29:03 +0100
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
>26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
>[]
>>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>>> the "customer" might desire.)
>>
>>Indeed. 10 may very well be the last version I use.
>>
>I've heard that said since at least '98, and said it myself for at least
>98SE, XP, and now 7.
>
>Thinking back, I can't now _really_ remember what - from the actual user
>point of view - made me eventually change. Looking forward, the only
>thing I can think of is hardware wearout, combined with the inability to
>find old-compatible replacement - but I'm sure I've thought and said
>that before.

For me, the issue was the software I needed to use for class was
64 bit, and XP was the 32 bit version. Fastest way to upgrade was new
box.
Then the XP box croaked, and I didn't have the time to fix it.

"Somewhere" I have a Win 95 box.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> on Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:36:24 +0100
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>In message <b475cil7qf7nrlf4udsu3mpmq9r9tfv4v7@4ax.com> at Thu, 27 Jul
>2023 09:49:55, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> writes
>>On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 21:29:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <XnsB04D83919A24Dauricauricauricauric@135.181.20.170> at Wed,
>>>26 Jul 2023 19:55:38, Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> writes
>>>[]
>>>>> (IOW: MicroSoft is only concerned with their bottom line, and not what
>>>>> the "customer" might desire.)
>>>>Indeed.
>>There's a lot of truth in that, but I don't completely agree.
>>Microsoft *does* do a lot of research on what customers want and
>>like.
>>
>And then totally ignore it! (Sorry, couldn't resist. They do _sometimes_
>pay attention - but implement what we want in a way that's very
>convoluted.)

I really don't care what is going on "under the hood" - it is the
user interface where things get "buggy". Especially when one has
"muscle memory" of how to do things, and "suddenly" it doesn't work
any more.
The analogy I use it that my new car has a console mounted shift
lever, whereas my old one had the shift lever on the column. So for
the first couple months, I would arrive some where, throw the car into
Park, and my windshield wipers would come on.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)