Somewhat rattled by the recent continuous updating scare, I thought it
might be wise for future-proofing purposes to upgrade my two
near-identical* builds of W7 to W10 or W11, and keep images of the
results, and then probably re-image back to W7 - the latter part is as
yet undecided but likely, because it's such a frustrating grind to
regain control of the PC after a major Windows upgrade, as modern
versions reduce the Administrator account to approximately the status of
entry level support, and breaking out of the jail is a tedious PITA of
an obstacle course.

* Near identical, rather than identical, because one is Ultimate, and
the other is Home Premium downgraded by a convoluted process from the
Ultimate build.

Astonishing to note that, despite claims of increased security with
every new version of Windows, in Win10 Everyone *STILL* has RO access to
the parent Users folder - I always delete this and Users and replace
them by giving Authenticated Users RO access in their place and copying
the settings down the heirarchy ...
Administrators Full
System Full
Authenticated Users RO
.... then reverting the actual genuine %USERNAME% folders to give
Administrators, %USERNAME%, and SYSTEM all Full access.
When compared to a near professional GUI like that of W2k, everything
about the childish W10 GUI is bad enough, but the worst thing by far is
the sheer useless bloat, which slows my best PC to a treacle like crawl
and fills up Explorer windows with a bewildering array of crap that I'll
never use and cannot easily remove, and reduces finding what I do
actually want to a continuous needle in haystack problem ...

Background processes running:

Trimmed down XP: 26
Trimmed down W7: 39 (inc 6 NVidia services for the Gfx card)
As installed W10: 133 (inc 5 MS Edge processes when Edge isn't open, and
after disabling 18 services before even counting, making 151 in total!)

How can W10 possibly justify taking nearly 6 times more processes than
XP and 4 times W7 just to do nothing but display a goddamned basic
desktop? I haven't yet searched on the web for doing anything more than
working through the Apps & Features list removing everything I can, but
if anyone here happens to know if there there is any way, MS approved or
not, of uninstalling the following bloatware, I'd be grateful to know:
App installer
Camera
Cortana
Edge
Get Help (possibly)
HEIF Image Extensions (probably)
Maps
Microsoft Edge
Microsoft Edge Update
Microsoft Edge WebView2 Runtime
Microsoft Photos
Microsoft Store
Microsoft Update Health Tools (possibly)
Paint 3D
People
Phone Link (probably)
Start
Voice Recorder
Weather (possibly)
Webp Image Extenstions (probably)
Windows PC Health Check (possibly)
Xbox Game Bar

Likewise about hiding the crap in Explorer ...

Desktop
Libraries
Personal Folders
3D Objects
Documents
Downloads
Music
Pictures
Videos

.... and whether it is possible to move network links from My Computer to
Network, where they really belong?

And I've barely even begun to think about enabling the TPM to support
Win11. I've read online that one has to reinstall the entire OS. Is
this really true, or could I just enable the TPM and then upgrade Win10,
because remaking my entire build is an absolute no-no, Win11 can go hang
if that is really what is required.

Rrrrr!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <u9judm$b000$1@dont-email.me>
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Somewhat rattled by the recent continuous updating scare, I thought it
> might be wise for future-proofing purposes to upgrade my two
> near-identical* builds of W7 to W10 or W11, and keep images of the
> results, and then probably re-image back to W7 - the latter part is as
> yet undecided but likely, because it's such a frustrating grind to
> regain control of the PC after a major Windows upgrade, as modern
> versions reduce the Administrator account to approximately the status of
> entry level support, and breaking out of the jail is a tedious PITA of
> an obstacle course.
>
> * Near identical, rather than identical, because one is Ultimate, and
> the other is Home Premium downgraded by a convoluted process from the
> Ultimate build.
>
> Astonishing to note that, despite claims of increased security with
> every new version of Windows, in Win10 Everyone *STILL* has RO access to
> the parent Users folder - I always delete this and Users and replace
> them by giving Authenticated Users RO access in their place and copying
> the settings down the heirarchy ...
> Administrators Full
> System Full
> Authenticated Users RO
> ... then reverting the actual genuine %USERNAME% folders to give
> Administrators, %USERNAME%, and SYSTEM all Full access.
>
> When compared to a near professional GUI like that of W2k, everything
> about the childish W10 GUI is bad enough, but the worst thing by far is
> the sheer useless bloat, which slows my best PC to a treacle like crawl
> and fills up Explorer windows with a bewildering array of crap that I'll
> never use and cannot easily remove, and reduces finding what I do
> actually want to a continuous needle in haystack problem ...
>
> Background processes running:
>
> Trimmed down XP: 26
> Trimmed down W7: 39 (inc 6 NVidia services for the Gfx card)
> As installed W10: 133 (inc 5 MS Edge processes when Edge isn't open, and
> after disabling 18 services before even counting, making 151 in total!)
>
> How can W10 possibly justify taking nearly 6 times more processes than
> XP and 4 times W7 just to do nothing but display a goddamned basic
> desktop? I haven't yet searched on the web for doing anything more than
> working through the Apps & Features list removing everything I can, but
> if anyone here happens to know if there there is any way, MS approved or
> not, of uninstalling the following bloatware, I'd be grateful to know:
> App installer
> Camera
> Cortana
> Edge
> Get Help (possibly)
> HEIF Image Extensions (probably)
> Maps
> Microsoft Edge
> Microsoft Edge Update
> Microsoft Edge WebView2 Runtime
> Microsoft Photos
> Microsoft Store
> Microsoft Update Health Tools (possibly)
> Paint 3D
> People
> Phone Link (probably)
> Start
> Voice Recorder
> Weather (possibly)
> Webp Image Extenstions (probably)
> Windows PC Health Check (possibly)
> Xbox Game Bar
>
> Likewise about hiding the crap in Explorer ...
>
> Desktop
> Libraries
> Personal Folders
> 3D Objects
> Documents
> Downloads
> Music
> Pictures
> Videos
>
> ... and whether it is possible to move network links from My Computer to
> Network, where they really belong?
>
> And I've barely even begun to think about enabling the TPM to support
> Win11. I've read online that one has to reinstall the entire OS. Is
> this really true, or could I just enable the TPM and then upgrade Win10,
> because remaking my entire build is an absolute no-no, Win11 can go hang
> if that is really what is required.
>
> Rrrrr!
>
> --
>
> Fake news kills!
>
> I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
> www.macfh.co.uk

Good Lawd! This is another reason I still use XP. The few sites
which won't let me in with XP ain't worth the problems inherent in
any of MS's newer crap.

On 23/07/2023 20:18, Java Jive wrote:
>
> Astonishing to note that, despite claims of increased security with
> every new version of Windows, in Win10 Everyone *STILL* has RO access to
> the parent Users folder  -  I always delete this and Users and replace
> them by giving Authenticated Users RO access in their place and copying
> the settings down the heirarchy ...
>     Administrators       Full
>     System               Full
>     Authenticated Users  RO
> .... then reverting the actual genuine %USERNAME% folders to give
> Administrators, %USERNAME%, and SYSTEM all Full access.

I can confirm that this is doable with Win11, but you'd be best advised
to remove beforehand the circular links in each user profile, including
the Default profile, ...
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Application Data
.... each of which points back up to ...
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local
.... causing an endless loop. This was the case in W7 as well, and
possibly Vista. Duh! Who's idiotic idea was that???!!! And why hasn't
it been fixed by now!

There's another such circular loop ...
C:\ProgramData\Application Data
.... which points back up to ...
C:\ProgramData
.... so, while you're about it, remove that one as well.

You'll have to run Explorer as an Administrator and take ownership of
each link file in order to be able to delete it.

> When compared to a near professional GUI like that of W2k, everything
> about the childish W10 GUI is bad enough ...

And worse even than I feared. Quite apart from the awful crippling of
the Start Menu, about 15 or more years ago I put up the following page
on my site concerning Windows' broken colour programming which has
plagued every version of Windows that I've tested since around W95 ...

www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html

.... and it's still broken in Win11, note the areas of unreadable text:

www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/Win11.jpg

The problem with this is that it makes it very difficult to have a
colour scheme based around light text on a dark background - which
many like myself find easier on the eyes - because critical
information cannot be read due to the programming errors described on my
web page.

> ... but the worst thing by far is
> the sheer useless bloat, which slows my best PC to a treacle like crawl
> and fills up Explorer windows with a bewildering array of crap that I'll
> never use and cannot easily remove, and reduces finding what I do
> actually want to a continuous needle in haystack problem ...
>
> Background processes running:
>
> Trimmed down XP:   26
> Trimmed down W7:   39 (inc 6 NVidia services for the Gfx card)
> As installed W10: 133 (inc 5 MS Edge processes when Edge isn't open, and
> after disabling 18 services before even counting, making 151 in total!)

I've now got it down to about 100-110, still 4x XP and 3x W7. No wonder
my poor PC struggles to run it, whereas it runs W7 fine.

> How can W10 possibly justify taking nearly 6 times more processes than
> XP and 4 times W7 just to do nothing but display a goddamned basic
> desktop?  I haven't yet searched on the web for doing anything more than
> working through the Apps & Features list removing everything I can, but
> if anyone here happens to know if there there is any way, MS approved or
> not, of uninstalling the following bloatware, I'd be grateful to know:
>     App installer
>     Camera
>     Cortana
>     Edge
>     Get Help (possibly)
>     HEIF Image Extensions (probably)
>     Maps
>     Microsoft Edge
>     Microsoft Edge Update
>     Microsoft Edge WebView2 Runtime
>     Microsoft Photos
>     Microsoft Store
>     Microsoft Update Health Tools (possibly)
>     Paint 3D
>     People
>     Phone Link (probably)
>     Start
>     Voice Recorder
>     Weather (possibly)
>     Webp Image Extenstions (probably)
>     Windows PC Health Check (possibly)
>     Xbox Game Bar

Quite a lot of the above can be uninstalled in Powershell run as an
Administrator with the following style of command line ...
Get-AppxPackage -allusers "*search string*" | Remove-AppxPackage
.... for example ...
Get-AppxPackage -allusers "*camera*" | Remove-AppxPackage
.... however, sadly, not all of them would go, Edge being the most
notable one that I couldn't uninstall.

> Likewise about hiding the crap in Explorer ...
>
>     Desktop
>     Libraries
>     Personal Folders
>         3D Objects
>         Documents
>         Downloads
>         Music
>         Pictures
>         Videos

This turned out to be surprisingly easy as long as you don't mind doing
it for all users. Close all Explorer windows. Run Regedit as an
Administrator, and navigate to ...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MyComputer\NameSpace

.... take ownership of it with full control, and rename it to something
like 'NamespaceNot'. Relaunch Explorer, and all the special folder crap
is now gone. If that is too much of a sacrifice and you want to keep
some of it, rename individual GUID subkeys instead, but you might have
some trouble finding out which are the ones you want to keep and which
you are happy to lose.

> .... and whether it is possible to move network links from My Computer
> to Network, where they really belong?

Yes! Under the above key, there will be a GUID key whose default
descriptive value is 'nethood delegate folder', for me the GUID is ...
{b155bdf8-02f0-451e-9a26-ae317cfd7779}
Move it and its parent 'DelegateFolders' key to ...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\NetworkNeighborhood

.... and delete it from the My Computer branch. However, when I tried
doing this by exporting it, editing the file, and re-importing it, there
was a message that the settings had been read into the Registry
successfully, but they hadn't. I had to create the new branch by hand.

> And I've barely even begun to think about enabling the TPM to support
> Win11.  I've read online that one has to reinstall the entire OS.  Is
> this really true, or could I just enable the TPM and then upgrade Win10,
> because remaking my entire build is an absolute no-no, Win11 can go hang
> if that is really what is required.

Stet.

> Rrrrr!

Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back to W7
soon, as W11 seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an
important program for me. It keeps demanding an installation *.msi for
it, whereas under W7 it 'just works'.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
> Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back to W7
> soon, as
.... W10 ...
> seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an
> important program for me.  It keeps demanding an installation *.msi for
> it, whereas under W7 it 'just works'.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 7/29/2023 4:47 PM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>> Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back to W7
>> soon, as
> ... W10 ...
>> seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an important
>> program for me.  It keeps demanding an installation *.msi for it,
>> whereas under W7 it 'just works'.

I am running PSP 9 under windows 10 and the install package does have an
..msi in it. Works fine for me.

On 7/30/2023 11:36 AM, sticks wrote:
> On 7/29/2023 4:47 PM, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>> Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back to W7 soon, as
>> ... W10 ...
>>> seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an important program for me.  It keeps demanding an installation *.msi for it, whereas under W7 it 'just works'.
>
> I am running PSP 9 under windows 10 and the install package does have an .msi in it.  Works fine for me.
>

This is what I've got in my archive.

Name: PSP9EN01__PaintShop_Pro_901.iso
Size: 197,703,680 bytes (188 MiB)
SHA256: 5A403BD000BAD32017624CD2BEAAA0EE6B533AB49E61F438F0256C3CCF758258

During extraction, a couple of the files seem damaged. setup.exe Setup.ini
The setup.exe may be missing a CD sector, the Setup.ini is zero-sized (another missing 2048byte sector).

PSP9EN01__PaintShop_Pro_901.iso
PSP9\Paint Shop Pro 9\

Directory: D:\Paint Shop Pro 9

Mode LastWriteTime Length Name
---- ------------- ------ ----
-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 4632 0x0409.ini
-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 122542580 Data1.cab <=== meat
-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 1708856 instmsia.exe
-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 1822520 instmsiw.exe
-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 2120312 Jasc Paint Shop Pro 9.msi <=== meat

-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 223232 setup.exe 225,280 bytes true size
-a---- 9/24/2004 4:57 PM 0 Setup.ini 1,221 bytes true size

Checking the two meat files, an unpacker says the
unpacking operation was fine, implying the MSI would
work from the context menu in File Explorer.

The original file name would have been PSP9EN01.iso .

Nothing in my Sent folder, so I don't know what fishing
expedition that came from :-) Looking at that, looks
like the time I went fishing and pulled in an old boot.

Paul

On 30/07/2023 16:36, sticks wrote:
> On 7/29/2023 4:47 PM, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>> Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back to W7
>>> soon, as
>> ... W10 ...

Senior moment there, for which apologies to anyone who didn't work it
out for themselves: in my second post above containing my list of fixes,
*ALL* the references to W11 should have been to W10. I haven't tried to
install W11 yet, and probably won't bother given how my best PC is
struggling to run even W10.

>>> seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an important
>>> program for me.  It keeps demanding an installation *.msi for it,
>>> whereas under W7 it 'just works'.
>
> I am running PSP 9 under windows 10 and the install package does have an
> ..msi in it.  Works fine for me.

I'm running, or trying to run, PSP8. However, the real point is that it
was already installed and running under W7 before the latter was
upgraded to W10, so logically W10 shouldn't now be trying unnecessarily
to install it all over again. A further illogicality is that my
installation file for it is an exe, not an msi, so it's not clear why it
should be asking for an *.msi, and yet a further illogicality is that
W10's behaviour varies according to whether I click it in the Start Menu
or double-click the actual program exe. In the former case, it
obviously cannot find the non-existent msi so aborts, and the program
doesn't run. In the latter case W10 still tries to reinstall the
program anyway, but after that fails it still runs the program perfectly
satisfactorily anyway, thus proving what an absurd and unnecessary
charade and farce the whole reinstallation effort was anyway!

Fed up with wasting so much time, going back to W7 now.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 7/30/2023 1:17 PM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 16:36, sticks wrote:
>> On 7/29/2023 4:47 PM, Java Jive wrote:
>>> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>>> Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back to W7 soon, as
>>> ... W10 ...
>
> Senior moment there, for which apologies to anyone who didn't work it out for themselves: in my second post above containing my list of fixes, *ALL* the references to W11 should have been to W10.  I haven't tried to install W11 yet, and probably won't bother given how my best PC is struggling to run even W10.
>
>>>> seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an important program for me.  It keeps demanding an installation *.msi for it, whereas under W7 it 'just works'.
>>
>> I am running PSP 9 under windows 10 and the install package does have an ..msi in it.  Works fine for me.
>
> I'm running, or trying to run, PSP8.  However, the real point is that it was already installed and running under W7 before the latter was upgraded to W10, so logically W10 shouldn't now be trying unnecessarily to install it all over again.  A further illogicality is that my installation file for it is an exe, not an msi, so it's not clear why it should be asking for an *.msi, and yet a further illogicality is that W10's behaviour varies according to whether I click it in the Start Menu or double-click the actual program exe.  In the former case, it obviously cannot find the non-existent msi so aborts, and the program doesn't run.  In the latter case W10 still tries to reinstall the program anyway, but after that fails it still runs the program perfectly satisfactorily anyway, thus proving what an absurd and unnecessary charade and farce the whole reinstallation effort was anyway!
>
> Fed up with wasting so much time, going back to W7 now.
>

It's possible the migration of Program Files, relies
on the integrity of the MSI cache. Maybe it does not
cache EXE files.

You can open an EXE file with 7ZIP and look inside for
component parts.

When you install progname.msi it is cached as 12345.msi
in the MSI cache. The filename is anonymized, to prevent
name collisions in the cache. Usually the filename component
is five alphanumeric characters.

Later, during an upgrade from W7 to W10, the migration
logic may say "to reinstall PSP8, we need 12345.msi".
If it did not get cached for some reason, then the migration
may not be possible. If you unpacked the EXE file, you would
have a copy of progname.msi , but then the missing bit of info
is how to rename it to 12345.msi .

I've been caught before, in Programs and Features, when trying
to reinstall some commercial crap, the MSI was unpacked on D:
in one of those numbered-folder tricks, and there's no cache of
the MSI. And then the stinking installer makes references to D: .
Which isn't going to work, if D: or the contents of D: happen
to be gone. Generally, if crap is installed somewhere on C: , there
are better odds it will be there next week.

Paul

On 30 Jul 2023, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

> On 7/29/2023 4:47 PM, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>> Despite the notable successes above, I think I will revert back
>>> to W7 soon, as
>> ... W10 ...
>>> seems to have broken PaintShopPro somehow, and that is an
>>> important program for me.  It keeps demanding an installation
>>> *.msi for it, whereas under W7 it 'just works'.
>
> I am running PSP 9 under windows 10 and the install package does
> have an .msi in it. Works fine for me.

I'm running Paint Shop Pro 9.01 in both Windows 10 and 11, and it works
OK. I seem to recall someone reporting that the Print Layout feature
doesn't work properly, but I haven't tried it out to see for myself.

I did have some trouble installing it from the CD, but I can't remember
exactly what the issue was. I seem to recall that a stub that's in the
root directory, one that the CDs autorun kicks off, wouldn't go,
perhaps because it's a 16-bit program. But when I drilled down to the
MSI that was in a subdirectory, that worked.

Continuing this thread in case anyone else wants to break out of the
Microsoft jail, and I needed to do my second W7 PC anyway ...

First, here is a list of a few things I've found that Microsoft have
broken annoyingly between W7 & W10:
Obviously enough, the Start Menu;
Ribbons waste screen space;
<Alt-E,I> keystrokes to invert selection in Explorer;
When Command prompt run as Administrator:
Cannot drag and drop directory or file to paste its path.
Opens in %WinDir%\System32 regardless of shortcut settings.
Hidden devices in Device Manager are difficult to distinguish from
other devices, making it hard to distinguish between devices that are
currently connected from those that are not.

On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>
> On 23/07/2023 20:18, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Astonishing to note that, despite claims of increased security with
>> every new version of Windows, in Win10 Everyone *STILL* has RO access
>> to the parent Users folder  -  I always delete this and Users and
>> replace them by giving Authenticated Users RO access in their place
>> and copying the settings down the heirarchy ...
>>      Administrators       Full
>>      System               Full
>>      Authenticated Users  RO
>> .... then reverting the actual genuine %USERNAME% folders to give
>> Administrators, %USERNAME%, and SYSTEM all Full access.
>
> I can confirm that this is doable with Win11, but you'd be best advised
> to remove beforehand the circular links in each user profile, including
> the Default profile, ...
>     C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Application Data
> .... each of which points back up to ...
>     C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local
> .... causing an endless loop.  This was the case in W7 as well, and
> possibly Vista.  Duh!  Who's idiotic idea was that???!!!  And why hasn't
> it been fixed by now!
>
> There's another such circular loop ...
>     C:\ProgramData\Application Data
> .... which points back up to ...
>     C:\ProgramData
> .... so, while you're about it, remove that one as well.
>
> You'll have to run Explorer as an Administrator and take ownership of
> each link file in order to be able to delete it.

I can also confirm that the following that were doable in W7 also are
doable in W10 from a Command prompt run as an Administrator - note
that each command will take an appreciable time, particularly the last
two, and you are advised very strongly to back up the system drive using
an imaging program before beginning:

1) Find all the junctions on the system drive, to check for
circularities like those given above (note that a double redirect >> is
required rather than a single one >, because it's a for loop, and that
that the 2>&1 captures error messages in their proper sequence):

for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %A in (`DIR /AL /S /B "C:\"`) do @for /f
"usebackq tokens=1-3*" %B in (`DIR /AHS "%A*" 2^>^&1 ^| FIND
"<JUNCTION>" `) do @echo %~dpA%E >> %TEMP%\Junctions.log 2>&1

2) Give Administrators ownership to every file on the system drive;
naturally there will be some failures to take ownership of files such as
hiberfile.sys and Windows Defender files, which can be ignored, the find
clause suppresses the myriad blank lines and "SUCCESS:" messages that
TakeOwn spews out:

takeown /A /R /D Y /SKIPSL /F C:\ | find "INFO:" > %TEMP%\TakeOwn.log 2>&1

3) Give Administrators Full Control permission to every file on the
system drive, leaving other permissions intact; as above, not every file
will be captured, but those that aren't can be ignored:

icacls C:\* /T /C /L /Q /grant Administrators:F > %TEMP%\Icacls.log 2>&1

>> When compared to a near professional GUI like that of W2k, everything
>> about the childish W10 GUI is bad enough ...
>
> And worse even than I feared.  Quite apart from the awful crippling of
> the Start Menu, about 15 or more years ago I put up the following page
> on my site concerning Windows' broken colour programming which has
> plagued every version of Windows that I've tested since around W95 ...
>
>     www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
>
> .... and it's still broken in Win11, note the areas of unreadable text:
>
>     www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/Win11.jpg
>
> The problem with this is that it makes it very difficult to have a
> colour scheme based around light text on a dark background  -  which
> many like myself find easier on the eyes  -  because critical
> information cannot be read due to the programming errors described on my
> web page.

I've now established that it's possible to get part way there -
specifically, in Settings, Personalisation, Colours, you can have ...
Windows mode = Dark
App mode = Light
.... but NOT ...
App mode = Dark
.... because, as posted previously, that ends up with some combinations
of colours of text and backgrounds that are too similar to be able to read.

>> ... but the worst thing by far is the sheer useless bloat, which slows
>> my best PC to a treacle like crawl and fills up Explorer windows with
>> a bewildering array of crap that I'll never use and cannot easily
>> remove, and reduces finding what I do actually want to a continuous
>> needle in haystack problem ...
>>
>> Background processes running:
>>
>> Trimmed down XP:   26
>> Trimmed down W7:   39 (inc 6 NVidia services for the Gfx card)
>> As installed W10: 133 (inc 5 MS Edge processes when Edge isn't open,
>> and after disabling 18 services before even counting, making 151 in
>> total!)
>
> I've now got it down to about 100-110, still 4x XP and 3x W7.  No wonder
> my poor PC struggles to run it, whereas it runs W7 fine.
>
>> How can W10 possibly justify taking nearly 6 times more processes than
>> XP and 4 times W7 just to do nothing but display a goddamned basic
>> desktop?  I haven't yet searched on the web for doing anything more
>> than working through the Apps & Features list removing everything I
>> can, but if anyone here happens to know if there there is any way, MS
>> approved or not, of uninstalling the following bloatware, I'd be
>> grateful to know:
>>      App installer
>>      Camera
>>      Cortana
>>      Edge
>>      Get Help (possibly)
>>      HEIF Image Extensions (probably)
>>      Maps
>>      Microsoft Edge
>>      Microsoft Edge Update
>>      Microsoft Edge WebView2 Runtime
>>      Microsoft Photos
>>      Microsoft Store
>>      Microsoft Update Health Tools (possibly)
>>      Paint 3D
>>      People
>>      Phone Link (probably)
>>      Start
>>      Voice Recorder
>>      Weather (possibly)
>>      Webp Image Extenstions (probably)
>>      Windows PC Health Check (possibly)
>>      Xbox Game Bar
>
> Quite a lot of the above can be uninstalled in Powershell run as an
> Administrator with the following style of command line ...
>     Get-AppxPackage -allusers "*search string*" | Remove-AppxPackage
> .... for example ...
>     Get-AppxPackage -allusers "*camera*" | Remove-AppxPackage
> .... however, sadly, not all of them would go, Edge being the most
> notable one that I couldn't uninstall.

Alledgedly Edge can be uninstalled as described here ...

https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/how-to-uninstall-microsoft-edge/

.... but this didn't work for me either.

>> Likewise about hiding the crap in Explorer ...
>>
>>      Desktop
>>      Libraries
>>      Personal Folders
>>          3D Objects
>>          Documents
>>          Downloads
>>          Music
>>          Pictures
>>          Videos
>
> This turned out to be surprisingly easy as long as you don't mind doing
> it for all users.  Close all Explorer windows.  Run Regedit as an
> Administrator, and navigate to ...
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MyComputer\NameSpace
>
> .... take ownership of it with full control, and rename it to something
> like 'NamespaceNot'.  Relaunch Explorer, and all the special folder crap
> is now gone.  If that is too much of a sacrifice and you want to keep
> some of it, rename individual GUID subkeys instead, but you might have
> some trouble finding out which are the ones you want to keep and which
> you are happy to lose.
>
>> .... and whether it is possible to move network links from My Computer
>> to Network, where they really belong?
>
> Yes!  Under the above key, there will be a GUID key whose default
> descriptive value is 'nethood delegate folder', for me the GUID is ...
>     {b155bdf8-02f0-451e-9a26-ae317cfd7779}
> Move it and its parent 'DelegateFolders' key to ...
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\NetworkNeighborhood
>
> .... and delete it from the My Computer branch.  However, when I tried
> doing this by exporting it, editing the file, and re-importing it, there
> was a message that the settings had been read into the Registry
> successfully, but they hadn't.  I had to create the new branch by hand.

In message <uaqoe7$2rtju$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
[]
>>     www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
[]
When I view that page (using 7_last_Chrome), it is mostly white text on
dark blue - easy to read. But: what I see is obviously longer than the
window I'm viewing it in - but I _don't_ get a scrollbar. Down, Up, Page
Down, Page Up, and space all still work, but no scrollbar means I don't
know how much of the page I'm seeing, nor where I am in it.

I've noticed this on several webpages recently. Is it caused by a
script? (If so why do it, assuming no scrollbar was the _intention_
rather than a side-effect?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm too lazy to have a bigger ego. - James May, RT 2016/1/23-29

On 07/08/2023 16:33, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
> In message <uaqoe7$2rtju$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17,
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
> []
>>>       www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
> []
> When I view that page (using 7_last_Chrome), it is mostly white text on
> dark blue - easy to read. But: what I see is obviously longer than the
> window I'm viewing it in - but I _don't_ get a scrollbar. Down, Up, Page
> Down, Page Up, and space all still work, but no scrollbar means I don't
> know how much of the page I'm seeing, nor where I am in it.
>
> I've noticed this on several webpages recently. Is it caused by a
> script? (If so why do it, assuming no scrollbar was the _intention_
> rather than a side-effect?)

No, there is a general site script that runs on most of my pages, which
is mostly anti-piracy and lightly cosmetic in nature, but AFAIAA it
can't be why you get the problems that you do with that or any of my
pages. However, an easy way to check would be to use NoScript or
YesScript to disable my scripting to see if it would make any difference
to what you see, but on that page I doubt very much that it will.

Certainly I have no intention of disabling scrollbars, or anything like
that, and most if not all of my webpages have been checked against
web-standards, including that one ...

https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.macfh.co.uk%2FTest%2FColourSchemesBugs.html

.... so if a browser fails to display them properly, then it's the
browser's fault.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In message <btlsce4U7Q0kFwqB@255soft.uk>, J. P. Gilliver
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes
>In message <uaqoe7$2rtju$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17,
>Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>[]
>>>     www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
>[]
>When I view that page (using 7_last_Chrome), it is mostly white text on
>dark blue - easy to read. But: what I see is obviously longer than the
>window I'm viewing it in - but I _don't_ get a scrollbar. Down, Up,
>Page Down, Page Up, and space all still work, but no scrollbar means I
>don't know how much of the page I'm seeing, nor where I am in it.
>
>I've noticed this on several webpages recently. Is it caused by a
>script? (If so why do it, assuming no scrollbar was the _intention_
>rather than a side-effect?)

Also using Chrome, but on 32-bit Windows 10, I correctly get the
vertical scrollbar on that page. Chrome version number is 115.0.5790.111
(Official Build).
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

In message <J$esHwB2YS0kFwoA@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023
18:13:26, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> writes
>In message <btlsce4U7Q0kFwqB@255soft.uk>, J. P. Gilliver
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes
>>In message <uaqoe7$2rtju$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17,
>>Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>>[]
>>>>     www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
>>[]
[]
>Also using Chrome, but on 32-bit Windows 10, I correctly get the
>vertical scrollbar on that page. Chrome version number is
>115.0.5790.111 (Official Build).

Here 7-32, and it's "Version 109.0.5414.120 (Official Build) (32-bit)"
(last for 7 I think). I don't have noscript or yesscript, but will try
it if I do get one of them (if I remember!).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Find out what works. Then do it. That's my system. I'm always surprised it
isn't more popular. - Scott Adams, 2015

On 07/08/2023 17:44, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/08/2023 16:33, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>
>> In message <uaqoe7$2rtju$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17,
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>> []
>>>>       www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
>> []
>> When I view that page (using 7_last_Chrome), it is mostly white text
>> on dark blue - easy to read. But: what I see is obviously longer than
>> the window I'm viewing it in - but I _don't_ get a scrollbar. Down,
>> Up, Page Down, Page Up, and space all still work, but no scrollbar
>> means I don't know how much of the page I'm seeing, nor where I am in it.
>>
>> I've noticed this on several webpages recently. Is it caused by a
>> script? (If so why do it, assuming no scrollbar was the _intention_
>> rather than a side-effect?)
>
> No, there is a general site script that runs on most of my pages, which
> is mostly anti-piracy and lightly cosmetic in nature

.... and is described here ...
https://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/ProgScriptWeb/General.html

> but AFAIAA it
> can't be why you get the problems that you do with that or any of my
> pages.  However, an easy way to check would be to use NoScript or
> YesScript to disable my scripting to see if it would make any difference
> to what you see, but on that page I doubt very much that it will.
>
> Certainly I have no intention of disabling scrollbars, or anything like
> that, and most if not all of my webpages have been checked against
> web-standards, including that one ...
>
> https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.macfh.co.uk%2FTest%2FColourSchemesBugs.html
>
> .... so if a browser fails to display them properly, then it's the
> browser's fault.
>

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 07.08.23 17:33, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <uaqoe7$2rtju$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17,
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
> []
>>> www.macfh.co.uk/Test/ColourSchemesBugs.html
> []
> When I view that page (using 7_last_Chrome), it is mostly white text on
> dark blue - easy to read. But: what I see is obviously longer than the
> window I'm viewing it in - but I _don't_ get a scrollbar. Down, Up, Page
> Down, Page Up, and space all still work, but no scrollbar means I don't
> know how much of the page I'm seeing, nor where I am in it.
>
> I've noticed this on several webpages recently. Is it caused by a
> script? (If so why do it, assuming no scrollbar was the _intention_
> rather than a side-effect?)
>
Hmmmm.
Link works fine under XP PRO........

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

>Continuing this thread in case anyone else wants to break out of the
>Microsoft jail, and I needed to do my second W7 PC anyway ...
>
>First, here is a list of a few things I've found that Microsoft have
>broken annoyingly between W7 & W10:
> Obviously enough, the Start Menu;
> Ribbons waste screen space;
> <Alt-E,I> keystrokes to invert selection in Explorer;

> When Command prompt run as Administrator:
> Cannot drag and drop directory or file to paste its path.
> Opens in %WinDir%\System32 regardless of shortcut settings.

I've never wanted to drag and drop a file or directory into a Command Prompt
window, but I accomplish the same thing in different ways.

I navigate to a directory with Windows Explorer, then I copy the path from there
and paste that into the Command Prompt window.

Otherwise, I use Windows Explorer to bring a directory into view, then I right
click and open a new administrative command prompt from there.

> Hidden devices in Device Manager are difficult to distinguish from
>other devices, making it hard to distinguish between devices that are
>currently connected from those that are not.

In message <hob3dih5u5eonqr5fcff2fkhmm0353su8s@4ax.com> at Mon, 7 Aug
2023 22:09:10, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
>On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
[]
>>First, here is a list of a few things I've found that Microsoft have
>>broken annoyingly between W7 & W10:
[]
>> Cannot drag and drop directory or file to paste its path.
[]
>I've never wanted to drag and drop a file or directory into a Command Prompt
>window, but I accomplish the same thing in different ways.
>
>I navigate to a directory with Windows Explorer, then I copy the path
>from there
>and paste that into the Command Prompt window.

Yes, but if you want to specify the full name - path plus filename - you
have to do two pastes, unless you have done your second option below.
>
>Otherwise, I use Windows Explorer to bring a directory into view, then I right
>click and open a new administrative command prompt from there.
[]
If you have "Everything", the file finder, open - which I tend to all
the time anyway - that has a "copy full path" (i. e. path plus filename)
in its context menu, and I use that a lot.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in
silencing the one than the one - if he had the power - would be justified in
silencing mankind. -John Stuart Mill, philosopher and economist (1806-1873)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:37:51 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <hob3dih5u5eonqr5fcff2fkhmm0353su8s@4ax.com> at Mon, 7 Aug
>2023 22:09:10, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
>>On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:35:17 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>[]
>>>First, here is a list of a few things I've found that Microsoft have
>>>broken annoyingly between W7 & W10:
>[]
>>> Cannot drag and drop directory or file to paste its path.
>[]
>>I've never wanted to drag and drop a file or directory into a Command Prompt
>>window, but I accomplish the same thing in different ways.
>>
>>I navigate to a directory with Windows Explorer, then I copy the path
>>from there
>>and paste that into the Command Prompt window.
>
>Yes, but if you want to specify the full name - path plus filename - you
>have to do two pastes, unless you have done your second option below.

Agreed, it's not perfect, but rather than do two pastes I type a letter, or a
few letters, of the filename and then use tab to complete it for me.

>>Otherwise, I use Windows Explorer to bring a directory into view, then I right
>>click and open a new administrative command prompt from there.
>[]
>If you have "Everything", the file finder, open - which I tend to all
>the time anyway - that has a "copy full path" (i. e. path plus filename)
>in its context menu, and I use that a lot.

On mine, it's called "Copy full name to clipboard". I've never used that option.

In message <fgi5di9cj3tv092mthmufbii6p0undbdfp@4ax.com> at Tue, 8 Aug
2023 18:09:52, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
>On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:37:51 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <hob3dih5u5eonqr5fcff2fkhmm0353su8s@4ax.com> at Mon, 7 Aug
>>2023 22:09:10, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
[]
>>>I navigate to a directory with Windows Explorer, then I copy the path
>>>from there
>>>and paste that into the Command Prompt window.
>>
>>Yes, but if you want to specify the full name - path plus filename - you
>>have to do two pastes, unless you have done your second option below.
>
>Agreed, it's not perfect, but rather than do two pastes I type a letter, or a
>few letters, of the filename and then use tab to complete it for me.

Well I never, I never knew about that! Though I think it only works for
the directory you're in.
>
>>>Otherwise, I use Windows Explorer to bring a directory into view,
>>>then I right
>>>click and open a new administrative command prompt from there.
>>[]
>>If you have "Everything", the file finder, open - which I tend to all
>>the time anyway - that has a "copy full path" (i. e. path plus filename)
>>in its context menu, and I use that a lot.
>
>On mine, it's called "Copy full name to clipboard". I've never used
>that option.
>
Yes, it's that on mine (other than being mostly in silly Title Case).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Fortunately radio is a forgiving medium. It hides a multitude of chins ...
Vanessa feltz, RT 2014-3/28-4/4

See below for a possibly important update on what can or can not be done
to jailbreak out of Win10 ...

On 07/08/2023 13:35, Java Jive wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 23/07/2023 20:18, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> Astonishing to note that, despite claims of increased security with
>>> every new version of Windows, in Win10 Everyone *STILL* has RO access
>>> to the parent Users folder  -  I always delete this and Users and
>>> replace them by giving Authenticated Users RO access in their place
>>> and copying the settings down the heirarchy ...
>>>      Administrators       Full
>>>      System               Full
>>>      Authenticated Users  RO
>>> .... then reverting the actual genuine %USERNAME% folders to give
>>> Administrators, %USERNAME%, and SYSTEM all Full access.
>>
>> I can confirm that this is doable with Win11, but you'd be best
>> advised to remove beforehand the circular links in each user profile,
>> including the Default profile, ...
>>      C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Application Data
>> .... each of which points back up to ...
>>      C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local
>> .... causing an endless loop.  This was the case in W7 as well, and
>> possibly Vista.  Duh!  Who's idiotic idea was that???!!!  And why
>> hasn't it been fixed by now!
>>
>> There's another such circular loop ...
>>      C:\ProgramData\Application Data
>> .... which points back up to ...
>>      C:\ProgramData
>> .... so, while you're about it, remove that one as well.
>>
>> You'll have to run Explorer as an Administrator and take ownership of
>> each link file in order to be able to delete it.
>
> I can also confirm that the following that were doable in W7 also are
> doable in W10 from a Command prompt run as an Administrator  -  note
> that each command will take an appreciable time, particularly the last
> two, and you are advised very strongly to back up the system drive using
> an imaging program before beginning:
>
> 1)    Find all the junctions on the system drive, to check for
> circularities like those given above (note that a double redirect >> is
> required rather than a single one >, because it's a for loop, and that
> that the 2>&1 captures error messages in their proper sequence):
>
> for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %A in (`DIR /AL /S /B "C:\"`) do @for /f
> "usebackq tokens=1-3*" %B in (`DIR /AHS "%A*" 2^>^&1 ^| FIND
> "<JUNCTION>" `) do @echo %~dpA%E >> %TEMP%\Junctions.log 2>&1
>
> 2)    Give Administrators ownership to every file on the system drive;
> naturally there will be some failures to take ownership of files such as
> hiberfile.sys and Windows Defender files, which can be ignored, the find
> clause suppresses the myriad blank lines and "SUCCESS:" messages that
> TakeOwn spews out:
>
> takeown /A /R /D Y /SKIPSL /F C:\ | find "INFO:" > %TEMP%\TakeOwn.log 2>&1

IMPORTANT! See below ...

> 3)    Give Administrators Full Control permission to every file on the
> system drive, leaving other permissions intact; as above, not every file
> will be captured, but those that aren't can be ignored:
>
> icacls C:\* /T /C /L /Q /grant Administrators:F > %TEMP%\Icacls.log 2>&1

IMPORTANT! This last step might NOT work on Windows 10 Home, whereas it
worked for me on Windows 10 Pro. Symptom is that after a reboot the
login screen appears, you log in, but the desktop never appears. There
is a mouse pointer on a black screen, but nothing else. <Ctrl-Alt-Del>
brings up that menu, but choosing Task Manager creates a 'busy' mouse
pointer for a second or two, but nothing further happens.

By binary chopping first the root directory then the Windows directory,
I've isolated the problem directory or file to ...
%WinDir%\Registration
.... or an item within it.

I discovered this because I returned to my principle PC to take it to
the same stage as I had taken PC #2 as described in the post to which
this is a reply. To avoid confusion in what follows I had better
explain that upthread in the discussion thus far ...

PC #1 is a Dell Inspiron 15RSE 7520
PC #2 is a Dell Precision M6300, of which I have 3, it's P1 below.

.... whereas now I am introducing the other two Precision M6300s because
I have some further news. Some of you may remember that in another
thread ...

Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop
drives?

.... I described that one of these 3 Dell Precision M6300 laptops was
running treacle-slooooow, and the thread title came about because I
suspected that this was because the HD was failing, but this turned out
NOT to be the case:

PC Time to: GRUB/OS Load Win Logon
P1 8GB @ 2.8GHz - Dual-boot Ubuntu 18 & W7: 0:12 0:24 later
P2 4GB @ 2.6GHz - Dual-boot Ubuntu 18 & XP: 0:31-1:00+ 0:19+ later
P3 4GB @ 2.2GHz - XP: 0:08 0:06 later

It happened that the video card in P1 failed a couple of days ago, so I
cannibalised successfully the one from P3 to repair it - I'm using the
result to post this - and while I was about it I investigated further
the slow P2, and its non-working fan. It turned out that the fan had
been disconnected deliberately, and when I reconnected it I found out
why, it made a deeply unpleasant whine. I replaced it with a spare that
is a little quieter, though still too noisy, and the PC is now
performing normally again.

Accordingly, I put back the Window 10 Pro image that came on it, with a
view to bringing it up to date, and found that, if it ever had been, it
was no longer authenticated. I have been able to retrieve from the
build the Product Key used originally to install it, but it isn't
accepted as authentication.

The trouble is, I can't be sure of its original authentication status.
It wasn't immediately obvious from the various settings menus, etc, that
it wasn't authenticated, and I only obtained a suggestion of the truth
when the last major update wouldn't install and I checked in the Event
Viewer to try to find out why, and saw failed attempts to authenticate
reported there.

Of these three PCs ...

The first came with W7 build which, AFAICR, wasn't authenticated, which
is almost certainly why I didn't keep an image of it; I wasn't upset by
this because all along my plan was simply to transfer to it an
authenticated W7 image off a PC that had died, which it's been running
happily and authenticated ever since.

The second and third came with Windows 10 images, one definitely wasn't
authenticated, but I had thought that the other was. I wasn't inclined
to return the one that wasn't authenticated because anyway I was
planning to put a pre-existing XP build on it to drive an old 32-bit
scanner, and it had an XP product key label - this is the only scanner
I have from which you can remove the lid completely to scan large
documents piecemeal, vital for my recent family history work. However,
I am somewhat annoyed to find that apparently the other laptop was never
properly authenticated either, and of course it's now much too late to
have any come back against the seller, and the situation has been
complicated further in that I've moved the best screens onto the best
two PCs, so some hardware has been exchanged between them.

Searching online reveals various unrealistically cheap sources of
Product Keys for Win10 which were probably the source of these
unauthenticated builds. Feedback at the sources suggests that sometimes
one has to be given a second or third key before one is found that
works, so I suppose what is happening is that the dealers have reverse
engineered the authentication process and created a 'keyspace' of
possible keys, some of which have been already sold and used legally and
thus fail when an attempt is made to authenticate using them a second
time.

Perhaps we should welcome the fact that Microsoft don't seem as anally
retentive about this as they used to be in XP days, don't plaster the
user experience with authentication nagging, and don't appear to be
pursuing these questionable dealers through the courts - you can even
find them in Amazon. Further, some of the keys do appear to be
authenticating. Perhaps if MS' current lackadaisical approach reaches
its logical conclusion, we can all return to the days of Windows 2000
when the product key was simply stuck on the CD package and only ever
used to install the product, without all this scurrilous phoning home
malarkey ... Well, I can dream, I guess!

On 12/08/2023 15:17, Java Jive wrote:
>
> See below for a possibly important update on what can or can not be done
> to jailbreak out of Win10 ...

And another ...

> On 07/08/2023 13:35, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> On 29/07/2023 18:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/07/2023 20:18, Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Astonishing to note that, despite claims of increased security with
>>>> every new version of Windows, in Win10 Everyone *STILL* has RO
>>>> access to the parent Users folder  -  I always delete this and Users
>>>> and replace them by giving Authenticated Users RO access in their
>>>> place and copying the settings down the heirarchy ...
>>>>      Administrators       Full
>>>>      System               Full
>>>>      Authenticated Users  RO
>>>> .... then reverting the actual genuine %USERNAME% folders to give
>>>> Administrators, %USERNAME%, and SYSTEM all Full access.
>>>
>>> I can confirm that this is doable with Win11,

Well, it's doable, but unfortunately it breaks the Search box in
Explorer, for some reason it locks and no longer can you type in it.
I'm baffles as to why this should happen, but finally after a long
investigation I have nailed the above as being responsible for it. It's
not the changed permissions on C:\Users that is the problem, but
replicating them further down the hierarchy. So for now I've replaced
Everyone and Users with Authenticated Users having the same RO
permissions on C:\Users and C:\Users\Default, and replicated the latter
down the hierarchy, and left it at that. At least the insecure Everyone
was able to be removed.

A strange anomaly is that under Windows 10 Home, but not under Windows
10 Professional, a C:\Users\DefaultAppPool subdirectory was created.

To revert to Windows Search, one could argue that it has been broken to
the point of near uselessness for a long time already, at least since
W7, possibly Vista, though I've never used that.

Windows 10 upgraded from Windows 7, so same programs as previous build,
initially filled about 45GB of my 64GB system drive, but after a few
upgrades it's now about 55GB. If I allow Windows Search Indexing to
run, it fills up the remaining 9GB in no time at all with its indexing
database, so, as in all previous versions of Windows, it's now been
disabled. After all, there is a perfectly good index already, it's
called a filesystem.

The difference in performance of various implementations of Windows
Search was brought sharply into focus to me recently!

I was doing a bit of housekeeping on my servers, because I'd noticed
that I had various versions of Rufus downloaded in various
subdirectories of my Install folder, presumably wherever had seemed most
appropriate to my mood at the time I saved each version. So I set a
search going on that folder and its subdirectories. I discovered that
by a freak chance of Linux linking, a circular link had been created:
within some backed up Linux data there was a link that when the data was
originally in situ from where the back up was made, pointed correctly,
but now in the backed up version happened to point to a location back up
the folder hierarchy happening to have the same name. However, I didn't
know this yet when I started searching ...

Well over an hour later, Win10 with indexing enabled on a Dell Inspiron
4-core i5 running at 2.5GHz with 8GB RAM, had found only 2 of the 10 or
so files that I knew were there.

So next I set the same search going with indexing disabled from Win7
running on a Dell Precision 2-core Duo running at 2.8GHz with 8GB RAM,
and it found all of them, 11 as it turned out, in just under 1 minute 40
seconds.

So finally I set the same search going with indexing disabled in WinXP
on a Dell Precision 2-core Duo running at 2.6GHz with 4GB RAM, and it
found all of them in under 7 seconds. Further, within a reasonable time
it went on to find the same files circularly-linked, revealing a problem
I hadn't known about previously.

So there you have it: XP 7 seconds, Win10 still not finished after an
hour. My constant complaint these days is: "Just *WHO* programs this
shit?!"

>>> but you'd be best
>>> advised to remove beforehand the circular links in each user profile,
>>> including the Default profile, ...
>>>      C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Application Data
>>> .... each of which points back up to ...
>>>      C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local
>>> .... causing an endless loop.  This was the case in W7 as well, and
>>> possibly Vista.  Duh!  Who's idiotic idea was that???!!!  And why
>>> hasn't it been fixed by now!
>>>
>>> There's another such circular loop ...
>>>      C:\ProgramData\Application Data
>>> .... which points back up to ...
>>>      C:\ProgramData
>>> .... so, while you're about it, remove that one as well.
>>>
>>> You'll have to run Explorer as an Administrator and take ownership of
>>> each link file in order to be able to delete it.
>>
>> I can also confirm that the following that were doable in W7 also are
>> doable in W10 from a Command prompt run as an Administrator  -  note
>> that each command will take an appreciable time, particularly the last
>> two, and you are advised very strongly to back up the system drive
>> using an imaging program before beginning:
>>
>> 1)    Find all the junctions on the system drive, to check for
>> circularities like those given above (note that a double redirect >>
>> is required rather than a single one >, because it's a for loop, and
>> that that the 2>&1 captures error messages in their proper sequence):
>>
>> for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %A in (`DIR /AL /S /B "C:\"`) do @for /f
>> "usebackq tokens=1-3*" %B in (`DIR /AHS "%A*" 2^>^&1 ^| FIND
>> "<JUNCTION>" `) do @echo %~dpA%E >> %TEMP%\Junctions.log 2>&1
>>
>> 2)    Give Administrators ownership to every file on the system drive;
>> naturally there will be some failures to take ownership of files such
>> as hiberfile.sys and Windows Defender files, which can be ignored, the
>> find clause suppresses the myriad blank lines and "SUCCESS:" messages
>> that TakeOwn spews out:
>>
>> takeown /A /R /D Y /SKIPSL /F C:\ | find "INFO:" > %TEMP%\TakeOwn.log
>> 2>&1
>
> IMPORTANT!  See below ...
>
>> 3)    Give Administrators Full Control permission to every file on the
>> system drive, leaving other permissions intact; as above, not every
>> file will be captured, but those that aren't can be ignored:
>>
>> icacls C:\* /T /C /L /Q /grant Administrators:F > %TEMP%\Icacls.log 2>&1
>
> IMPORTANT!  This last step might NOT work on Windows 10 Home, whereas it
> worked for me on Windows 10 Pro.  Symptom is that after a reboot the
> login screen appears, you log in, but the desktop never appears.  There
> is a mouse pointer on a black screen, but nothing else. <Ctrl-Alt-Del>
> brings up that menu, but choosing Task Manager creates a 'busy' mouse
> pointer for a second or two, but nothing further happens.
>
> By binary chopping first the root directory then the Windows directory,
> I've isolated the problem directory or file to ...
>     %WinDir%\Registration
> .... or an item within it.

Actually it may be the CRMLog sub-directory, even though it's entirely
empty. I got round this as follows:

Save permissions on problem folder, note that it is specified as itself
in the command line:
icacls C:\Windows\Registration /T /C /L /Q /save "D:\Temp\WRPrms.txt"

As before:
icacls C:\* /T /C /L /Q /grant Administrators:F > D:\Temp\Icacls.log 2>&1

Restore permissions on problem folder, note that its parent directory is
specified in the command line:
icacls C:\Windows /restore "D:\Temp\WRPrms.txt"

With each new version of Windows it gets harder and harder to retain
absolute control over your own PC.

> PC                                 Time to:  GRUB/OS Load  Win Logon
> P1 8GB @ 2.8GHz - Dual-boot Ubuntu 18 & W7:  0:12          0:24 later
> P2 4GB @ 2.6GHz - Dual-boot Ubuntu 18 & XP:  0:31-1:00+    0:19+ later
> P3 4GB @ 2.2GHz - XP:                        0:08          0:06 later
>
> It happened that the video card in P1 failed a couple of days ago, so I
> cannibalised successfully the one from P3 to repair it  -  I'm using the
> result to post this  -  and while I was about it I investigated further
> the slow P2, and its non-working fan.  It turned out that the fan had
> been disconnected deliberately, and when I reconnected it I found out
> why, it made a deeply unpleasant whine.  I replaced it with a spare that
> is a little quieter, though still too noisy, and the PC is now
> performing normally again.
>
> Accordingly, I put back the Window 10 Pro image that came on it, with a
> view to bringing it up to date, and found that, if it ever had been, it
> was no longer authenticated.  I have been able to retrieve from the
> build the Product Key used originally to install it, but it isn't
> accepted as authentication.
>
> The trouble is, I can't be sure of its original authentication status.