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computers / alt.os.linux.mint / Ubuntu is fighting back!!

SubjectAuthor
* Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jack
+- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
+- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jörg Lorenz
`* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 +* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jonathan N. Little
 |`* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 | `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!azigni
 |  `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |   +* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Henry Crun
 |   |+* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Big Al
 |   ||+- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Dan Purgert
 |   ||`* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Henry Crun
 |   || `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!David W. Hodgins
 |   ||  `- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Bud Frede
 |   |`* systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!David W. Hodgins
 |   | +* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
 |   | |+- Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |   | |`* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!David W. Hodgins
 |   | | +* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
 |   | | |+* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Henry Crun
 |   | | ||`- Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
 |   | | |`- Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Nux Vomica
 |   | | +* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Richard Kettlewell
 |   | | |`- Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Nux Vomica
 |   | | `* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Nux Vomica
 |   | |  `* Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!David W. Hodgins
 |   | |   `- Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Nux Vomica
 |   | `- Re: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Nux Vomica
 |   `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!azigni
 |    `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |     `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |      +* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Nic
 |      |`- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |      `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jonathan N. Little
 |       `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |        +- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jonathan N. Little
 |        +* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!azigni
 |        |`- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Big Al
 |        `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Henry Crun
 |         `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 |          `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Henry Crun
 |           +* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jonathan N. Little
 |           |`* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Paul
 |           | `- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jonathan N. Little
 |           `- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector
 `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Goetz Schultz
  +* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Fox McCloud45
  |+* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
  ||+* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Fox McCloud45
  |||`* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
  ||| `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Fox McCloud45
  |||  `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Goetz Schultz
  |||   `* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Mike Easter
  |||    `- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Goetz Schultz
  ||`- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!mechanic
  |`* Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Jonathan N. Little
  | `- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!Fox McCloud45
  `- Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!bad sector

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Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<ubo62f$3fe1j$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: inva...@invalid.net (Jack)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 17:00:00 +0100
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 by: Jack - Fri, 18 Aug 2023 16:00 UTC

Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
According to this blog:

<https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-experience>

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<kk9l2sFrrmnU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Mike Easter - Fri, 18 Aug 2023 16:37 UTC

Jack wrote:
> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
> According to this blog:
>
> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-experience>
>
That article greatly resembles the efforts of many open source inclined
administrations.

I think it is MUCH smarter to use a popular well-supported distro, which
includes Ub, instead of trying to *create* one's own distro such as
LiMux in Munich and so forth right up to the most recent Indian Defence
Ministry and their Maya distro.

So, I have no problem whatsoever w/ choosing a 'standard' linux to be
used 'universally' throughout the sphere in question.

I doubt they will have any problem; LTS Ubuntu XFCE.

It isn't my chosen everyday driver; but it will work just fine.

--
Mike Easter

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<ubplrs$97vj$1@solani.org>

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From: hugyb...@gmx.ch (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 08:01:31 +0200
Organization: Camembert Normand au Lait Cru
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 06:01 UTC

Am 18.08.23 um 18:00 schrieb Jack:
> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
> According to this blog:
>
> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-experience>

What is your real problem? Certainly not that Ubuntu around Shuttleworth
is promoting its own OS on their own website for younger users?

--
Alea iacta est

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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From: forge...@invalid.gov (bad sector)
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: bad sector - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 10:53 UTC

On 8/18/23 12:00, Jack wrote:
> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
> According to this blog:
>
> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-experience>

I'm no fan of 'buntus, I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me away
from using links for homes, but the bottom line is this: would I rather
see microcancer rule the planet?

--
"A man's got to know his limitations". Clint Eastwood

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<uda033$2h6sk$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lws4...@gmail.com (Jonathan N. Little)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 09:50:26 -0400
Organization: LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
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 by: Jonathan N. Little - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 13:50 UTC

bad sector wrote:
> I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me away from using links for homes

What do you mean by this? I don't use Studio, but have systems where
different user homes '/home/<whatever>' mount to different partitions
and physical drives with no issue. Fairly standard stuff. Don't use
symbolic links for whole profiles, but do use them within user homes for
special directories such as 'Documents' that is a symbolic link to nfs
mounted share '/mnt/remote_nfs_share' so different users have access to
a common set of files with no issues. You have a right to not like
Ubuntu. That is the right of any Linux user. I want Canonical to kill
snaps. With respect to 'using links for homes', I do not know what would
be the 'Ubuntu' specific issue...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<udacda$2j4aq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ng.expir...@goetz.co.uk (Goetz Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 18:20:46 +0100
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 by: Goetz Schultz - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:20 UTC

On 06/09/2023 11:53, bad sector wrote:
> On 8/18/23 12:00, Jack wrote:
>> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
>> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
>> According to this blog:
>>
>> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-experience>
>
>
> I'm no fan of 'buntus, I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me away
> from using links for homes, but the bottom line is this: would I rather
> see microcancer rule the planet?
>
>

Neither am I - yet let people start with Ubuntu. They will soon move off
and up with Fedora or PcBSD. I certainly had a "Ubuntu Phase" and am now
miles away. Ohm no soft microbes in this house since 2009 (except from
forced on work laptops).

--

Cheers,
G.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
---------------------------->8------------------------------
/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
X against HTML e-mail
/ \
---------------------------->8------------------------------

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Fox McCloud45 - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:25 UTC

Le Wed, 6 Sep 2023 18:20:46 +0100, Goetz Schultz a écrit :

> On 06/09/2023 11:53, bad sector wrote:
>> On 8/18/23 12:00, Jack wrote:
>>> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
>>> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
>>> According to this blog:
>>>
>>> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-
experience>
>>
>>
>> I'm no fan of 'buntus, I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me away
>> from using links for homes, but the bottom line is this: would I rather
>> see microcancer rule the planet?
>>
>>
>>
> Neither am I - yet let people start with Ubuntu. They will soon move off
> and up with Fedora or PcBSD. I certainly had a "Ubuntu Phase" and am now
> miles away. Ohm no soft microbes in this house since 2009 (except from
> forced on work laptops).

Maybe I'm insane or something but I recently went from Arch Linux back to
Ubuntu Unity after using Arch for six years on my desktop. I wanted to try
Manjaro Unity but it's broken right now.

Switching from a tightly-controlled Arch Linux installation to a "bloated"
Ubuntu Unity one feels weird but for some reason I don't dislike it. I may
really be losing sanity.

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Mike Easter - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:40 UTC

Fox McCloud45 wrote:
> Switching from a tightly-controlled Arch Linux installation to a "bloated"
> Ubuntu Unity one feels weird but for some reason I don't dislike it. I may
> really be losing sanity.

That's an example of a DE 'winning you over'.

As far as I know, Ub is the 'best' way to use Unity, just like LM or
LMDE are the best ways to use Cinnamon DE, as those dev/s are the most
'committed' to that DE.

I will say that there are some other nice Cinnamons too :-) Not so many
Unity/s.

--
Mike Easter

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Fox McCloud45 - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:48 UTC

Le Wed, 6 Sep 2023 10:40:24 -0700, Mike Easter a écrit :

> Fox McCloud45 wrote:
>> Switching from a tightly-controlled Arch Linux installation to a
>> "bloated"
>> Ubuntu Unity one feels weird but for some reason I don't dislike it. I
>> may really be losing sanity.
>
> That's an example of a DE 'winning you over'.
>
> As far as I know, Ub is the 'best' way to use Unity, just like LM or
> LMDE are the best ways to use Cinnamon DE, as those dev/s are the most
> 'committed' to that DE.

I suppose that's it. I think I got an overdose of "minimalistic design"
after eight years of Windows 10 and seven years of LXDE/IceWM.

Windows Aero was always pleasing to the eye in my opinion. Unity was just
too slow when I tried using it back then (and it crashed my non-free
NVIDIA driver too! Damn NVIDIA...).

> I will say that there are some other nice Cinnamons too :-) Not so many
> Unity/s.

I've seen nice Cinnamon screenshots here and there but I don't know if
they can accomplish a complete skeuomorphic "3D" interface. My guess is
that it can probably do at least as much as Unity, if not better...

I guess I'll take a closer look.

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Mike Easter - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:51 UTC

Fox McCloud45 wrote:
> I've seen nice Cinnamon screenshots here and there but I don't know if
> they can accomplish a complete skeuomorphic "3D" interface. My guess is
> that it can probably do at least as much as Unity, if not better...
>
> I guess I'll take a closer look.

Oh; I wasn't trying to recommend Cinn over Unity.

Unity is Unity. Cinn is Cinn. Like a lot of other things. If you like
Unity best so far, I don't know which way I would point you different :-)

--
Mike Easter

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Fox McCloud45 - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:54 UTC

Le Wed, 6 Sep 2023 10:51:16 -0700, Mike Easter a écrit :

> Fox McCloud45 wrote:
>> I've seen nice Cinnamon screenshots here and there but I don't know if
>> they can accomplish a complete skeuomorphic "3D" interface. My guess is
>> that it can probably do at least as much as Unity, if not better...
>>
>> I guess I'll take a closer look.
>
> Oh; I wasn't trying to recommend Cinn over Unity.
>
> Unity is Unity. Cinn is Cinn. Like a lot of other things. If you like
> Unity best so far, I don't know which way I would point you different
> :-)

Sure, it's just that I was taking a look at some Cinnamon screenshots as
well while writing the reply.

However, I must say I quite like the "top bar menu" à la macOS.

Speaking of macOS, I also took a look at helloSystem which is a FreeBSD-
based OS that stems from users disliking modern Apple but it cannot be
dual-booted without wiping a full disk sadly.

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<udaett$2jded$2@dont-email.me>

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From: ng.expir...@goetz.co.uk (Goetz Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 19:03:44 +0100
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 by: Goetz Schultz - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 18:03 UTC

On 06/09/2023 18:54, Fox McCloud45 wrote:
> Le Wed, 6 Sep 2023 10:51:16 -0700, Mike Easter a écrit :
>
>> Fox McCloud45 wrote:
>>> I've seen nice Cinnamon screenshots here and there but I don't know if
>>> they can accomplish a complete skeuomorphic "3D" interface. My guess is
>>> that it can probably do at least as much as Unity, if not better...
>>>
>>> I guess I'll take a closer look.
>>
>> Oh; I wasn't trying to recommend Cinn over Unity.
>>
>> Unity is Unity. Cinn is Cinn. Like a lot of other things. If you like
>> Unity best so far, I don't know which way I would point you different
>> :-)
>
> Sure, it's just that I was taking a look at some Cinnamon screenshots as
> well while writing the reply.
>
> However, I must say I quite like the "top bar menu" à la macOS.
>
> Speaking of macOS, I also took a look at helloSystem which is a FreeBSD-
> based OS that stems from users disliking modern Apple but it cannot be
> dual-booted without wiping a full disk sadly.

Thanks for the Link. I love FreeBSD and work currently with a Fedora
Mate Spin, that has been honed into an OSX alike look and feel. Once my
Apple Airbook is gone far beyond support, I shall try it.
Unfortunately there are some showstoppers along the way - things I NEED
to have (Signal App being one). So far I am optimistic.

--

Cheers,
G.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
---------------------------->8------------------------------
/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
X against HTML e-mail
/ \
---------------------------->8------------------------------

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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 by: Mike Easter - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 19:13 UTC

Goetz Schultz wrote:
> Once my Apple Airbook is gone far beyond support, I shall try it.

There are rumors that Apple is going to try to release a more economical
'Macbook-ish' model next year to try to compete w/ Chromebook price vs
performance.

Of course, what Apple considers 'more economical' might not be very :-)

--
Mike Easter

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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X-Dan: Yes Dan this is a Winbox
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 by: Jonathan N. Little - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 21:50 UTC

Fox McCloud45 wrote:
> Le Wed, 6 Sep 2023 18:20:46 +0100, Goetz Schultz a écrit :
>
>> On 06/09/2023 11:53, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 8/18/23 12:00, Jack wrote:
>>>> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
>>>> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
>>>> According to this blog:
>>>>
>>>> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-
> experience>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm no fan of 'buntus, I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me away
>>> from using links for homes, but the bottom line is this: would I rather
>>> see microcancer rule the planet?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Neither am I - yet let people start with Ubuntu. They will soon move off
>> and up with Fedora or PcBSD. I certainly had a "Ubuntu Phase" and am now
>> miles away. Ohm no soft microbes in this house since 2009 (except from
>> forced on work laptops).
>
> Maybe I'm insane or something but I recently went from Arch Linux back to
> Ubuntu Unity after using Arch for six years on my desktop. I wanted to try
> Manjaro Unity but it's broken right now.
>
> Switching from a tightly-controlled Arch Linux installation to a "bloated"
> Ubuntu Unity one feels weird but for some reason I don't dislike it. I may
> really be losing sanity.
>

I am using the standard Ubuntu GNOME on 22.04 and 23.04. It's gotten a
bit better with 23.04, but I really miss Unity. I found it really
efficient workflow for multitasking, especially on small screens of
laptops. I always liked where it was going and was disappointed when
they dropped it. (Want them to really fix and expand lens). Now that
they gave that kid break and add Ubuntu back in as an official flavor
maybe it will become what its should have...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Fox McCloud45 - Wed, 6 Sep 2023 22:18 UTC

Le Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:50:41 -0400, Jonathan N. Little a écrit :

> Fox McCloud45 wrote:
>>
>> Maybe I'm insane or something but I recently went from Arch Linux back
>> to Ubuntu Unity after using Arch for six years on my desktop. I wanted
>> to try Manjaro Unity but it's broken right now.
>>
>> Switching from a tightly-controlled Arch Linux installation to a
>> "bloated"
>> Ubuntu Unity one feels weird but for some reason I don't dislike it. I
>> may really be losing sanity.
>>
>>
> I am using the standard Ubuntu GNOME on 22.04 and 23.04. It's gotten a
> bit better with 23.04, but I really miss Unity. I found it really
> efficient workflow for multitasking, especially on small screens of
> laptops. I always liked where it was going and was disappointed when
> they dropped it. (Want them to really fix and expand lens). Now that
> they gave that kid break and add Ubuntu back in as an official flavor
> maybe it will become what its should have...

I believe they dropped Unity because GNOME as a whole was progressing very
well and Unity essentially slowed down developments on Ubuntu.

As far as I know, people who didn't like Unity back when it was introduced
switched to MATE. But when Unity was discontinued there was no true
replacement; I believe Canonical modified GNOME Shell to have a similar
appearance to Unity but that's it.

The last standard Ubuntu I installed was 16.04 I believe. I used Xubuntu
18.04 in professionnal environments later on but otherwise sticked to
Debian then Arch Linux until now. I always liked Unity's look but I didn't
like that it slowed down my system. Modern Unity seems better in that
regard but it still uses Compiz so I'm not sure.

Folks behind Unity are apparently developing an improved version named
UnityX that is supposedly the exact same but without Compiz and other
GNOME dependencies. I didn't test it yet but I'd like to make sure it
truly retains the same look, but it hasn't seen a commit in six months. I
hope the project isn't dead yet: <https://unityd.org/>

Needless to say, I use the Ambience theme:
<https://files.catbox.moe/atyh1q.png>

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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 by: bad sector - Thu, 7 Sep 2023 00:04 UTC

On 9/6/23 09:50, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>> I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me away from using links for homes
>
> What do you mean by this? I don't use Studio, but have systems where
> different user homes '/home/<whatever>' mount to different partitions
> and physical drives with no issue. Fairly standard stuff. Don't use
> symbolic links for whole profiles, but do use them within user homes for
> special directories such as 'Documents' that is a symbolic link to nfs
> mounted share '/mnt/remote_nfs_share' so different users have access to
> a common set of files with no issues. You have a right to not like
> Ubuntu. That is the right of any Linux user. I want Canonical to kill
> snaps. With respect to 'using links for homes', I do not know what would
> be the 'Ubuntu' specific issue...
>

They have this SNAP system, can't think of the exact application or
problem but I got into a bind with it because it would not allow links
in home (I'm not booted into U-Studio right now).

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 by: bad sector - Thu, 7 Sep 2023 00:04 UTC

On 9/6/23 13:20, Goetz Schultz wrote:
> On 06/09/2023 11:53, bad sector wrote:
>> On 8/18/23 12:00, Jack wrote:
>>> Ubuntu has started indoctrinating people to use Ubuntu every where and
>>> for every tasks. They have started with kindergarten children!!
>>> According to this blog:
>>>
>>> <https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-education-a-k-12-it-directors-experience>
>>
>> I'm no fan of 'buntus, I puke when Ubuntu-Studio tries to force me
>> away from using links for homes, but the bottom line is this: would I
>> rather see microcancer rule the planet?
>
> Neither am I - yet let people start with Ubuntu. They will soon move off
> and up with Fedora or PcBSD. I certainly had a "Ubuntu Phase" and am now
> miles away. Ohm no soft microbes in this house since 2009 (except from
> forced on work laptops).

I try to avoid generalizing on account of there being a million
different user types. I tried it because I will try anything that helps
me do music, but I have a 91 year old aunt who has a hard enough time
with IT as it is so her son at IBM set her up with a bullet and crash
proof Ubuntu that she had no problems with ..last I heard. I set up my
father in law with a Suse 5.x and automatic regeneration from a dd image
every week. It worked like a charm for 6 years with ZERO maintenance!
THEN, once while I was away he called a local IT guru for some web forum
issue and that guy told him that whoever had done his Linux shit was an
idiot who didn't know what he was doing and erased it all, replacing
with windows. After that the old fart didn't have the nerve to call me
back again, which was OK with me :-)))

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 by: Goetz Schultz - Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:10 UTC

On 06/09/2023 20:13, Mike Easter wrote:
> Goetz Schultz wrote:
>> Once my Apple Airbook is gone far beyond support, I shall try it.
>
> There are rumors that Apple is going to try to release a more economical
> 'Macbook-ish' model next year to try to compete w/ Chromebook price vs
> performance.
>
> Of course, what Apple considers 'more economical' might not be very :-)
>

Well, let see what the rumors are able to manifest. Interesting - yes.
Keen on owning - not so sure.

--

Cheers,
G.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
---------------------------->8------------------------------
/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
X against HTML e-mail
/ \
---------------------------->8------------------------------

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 by: mechanic - Thu, 7 Sep 2023 10:19 UTC

On Wed, 6 Sep 2023 10:40:24 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Fox McCloud45 wrote:
>> Switching from a tightly-controlled Arch Linux installation to a
>> "bloated" Ubuntu Unity one feels weird but for some reason I
>> don't dislike it. I may really be losing sanity.
>
> That's an example of a DE 'winning you over'.
>
> As far as I know, Ub is the 'best' way to use Unity, just like LM
> or LMDE are the best ways to use Cinnamon DE, as those dev/s are
> the most 'committed' to that DE.
>
> I will say that there are some other nice Cinnamons too :-) Not
> so many Unity/s.

One big advantage is that the 'modern rewrite' of Unity actually
works with HiDPI displays, even on the text screens on login. Most
Linux distros are pritty hopeless faced with a high defn screen,
often citing a lack of funds/expert developers to cope with this
hardware.

Of course MSFT Windows copes fine too, but they have the resources.

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 by: azigni - Fri, 8 Sep 2023 04:54 UTC

On 9/6/23 18:04, bad sector wrote:
> They have this SNAP system, ...snipped
>
>
You do not have use Ubuntu any flavor with Snap or Flatpaks. This is
Linux after all. Google removing snap packages from Ubuntu, it is pretty
simple.

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Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: bad sector - Fri, 8 Sep 2023 11:15 UTC

On 9/8/23 00:54, azigni wrote:
> On 9/6/23 18:04, bad sector wrote:
>> They have this SNAP system, ...snipped
>>
> You do not have use Ubuntu any flavor with Snap or Flatpaks. This is
> Linux after all. Google removing snap packages from Ubuntu, it is pretty
> simple.

I think it was a mozilla package that went snap by default, true there
WAS an alternative way and I tried it once, but I don't have time to
muck around with workarounds so the bundled default software manager has
to do it my way by default or optionally. Finally the problem isn't snap
per-se. I have no axes to grind about flatpacks (well, maybe a tomahawk
or two) but the charateristic that it sabotages home links is a deal
braker. It's not a federal case, I still use the U-Studio but its a
black mark until fixed.

--
Fridays are Tumbleweed days: openSUSE Tumbleweed, DM=sddm, GPT,
Kernel=6.4.12-1-default on x86_64,DE=KDE,ST=x11,grub2,BIOS-boot
https://imgur.com/mWjMS5W.png https://imgur.com/RsbswMP.png

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<km0hp9Foth9U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: mik...@rechtman.com (Henry Crun)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:18:49 +0300
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 by: Henry Crun - Fri, 8 Sep 2023 12:18 UTC

On 08/09/2023 14:15, bad sector wrote:
> On 9/8/23 00:54, azigni wrote:
>> On 9/6/23 18:04, bad sector wrote:
>>> They have this SNAP system, ...snipped
>>>
>> You do not have use Ubuntu any flavor with Snap or Flatpaks. This is Linux after all. Google removing snap packages
>> from Ubuntu, it is pretty simple.
>
> I think it was a mozilla package that went snap by default, true there WAS an alternative way and I tried it once, but I
> don't have time to muck around with workarounds so the bundled default software manager has to do it my way by default
> or optionally. Finally the problem isn't snap per-se. I have no axes to grind about flatpacks (well, maybe a tomahawk or
> two) but the charateristic that it sabotages home links is a deal braker. It's not a federal case, I still use the
> U-Studio but its a black mark until fixed.
>
>

I am gradually moving laptop...netbook...eventully desktop from Ub. to MX.
Very smooth learning curve, some advantages, some disadvantages.
On Ubuntu I have been running for about year with no snap or flatpak. If only I could avoid the horror that is systemd.
We are supposed to have choice, but to choose 'no systemd' immediately implies 'not Ubuntu'
Pity 'bout that.

--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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From: Bea...@invalid.com (Big Al)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Big Al - Fri, 8 Sep 2023 13:46 UTC

On 9/8/23 08:18, this is what Henry Crun wrote:
> On 08/09/2023 14:15, bad sector wrote:
>> On 9/8/23 00:54, azigni wrote:
>>> On 9/6/23 18:04, bad sector wrote:
>>>> They have this SNAP system, ...snipped
>>>>
>>> You do not have use Ubuntu any flavor with Snap or Flatpaks. This is Linux after all. Google removing snap packages
>>> from Ubuntu, it is pretty simple.
>>
>> I think it was a mozilla package that went snap by default, true there WAS an alternative way and I tried it once, but
>> I don't have time to muck around with workarounds so the bundled default software manager has to do it my way by
>> default or optionally. Finally the problem isn't snap per-se. I have no axes to grind about flatpacks (well, maybe a
>> tomahawk or two) but the charateristic that it sabotages home links is a deal braker. It's not a federal case, I still
>> use the U-Studio but its a black mark until fixed.
>>
>>
>
> I am gradually moving laptop...netbook...eventully desktop from Ub. to MX.
> Very smooth learning curve, some advantages, some disadvantages.
> On Ubuntu I have been running for about  year with no snap or flatpak. If only I could avoid the horror that is systemd.
> We are supposed to have choice, but to choose 'no systemd' immediately implies 'not Ubuntu'
> Pity 'bout that.
>
Can you explain the issue with systemd? I think Linux Mint uses it and I haven't seen any apparent issues.
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

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From: dan...@djph.net (Dan Purgert)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: Dan Purgert - Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:17 UTC

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.]
On 2023-09-08, Big Al wrote:
> On 9/8/23 08:18, this is what Henry Crun wrote:
>>
>> I am gradually moving laptop...netbook...eventully desktop from Ub.
>> to MX. Very smooth learning curve, some advantages, some
>> disadvantages. On Ubuntu I have been running for about  year with no
>> snap or flatpak. If only I could avoid the horror that is systemd. We
>> are supposed to have choice, but to choose 'no systemd' immediately
>> implies 'not Ubuntu' Pity 'bout that.
>>
> Can you explain the issue with systemd? I think Linux Mint uses it
> and I haven't seen any apparent issues.

It's one of those things that, if it's all you've used will probably not
be all that easy to grasp (for example, my take with Pulse Audio was
similar).

Personally, I'm not much a fan of their binary logging, or how it can
get in the way of applications like screen or tmux (or even nohup). The
general pervasiveness and expansion of "systemd-anotherthingd" doesn't
really instill confidence either.

It's either going to turn out to be one of those things that in 10 years
we'll collectively "forget" was a problem, either because there's a
schism in the general Linux community that's too great to bridge; or
because something soured distro decision makers against it enough that
they've moved on.

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!

<op.2ayk5dmqa3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net>

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From: dwhodg...@nomail.afraid.org (David W. Hodgins)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux
Subject: systemd discussion again (was Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:25 UTC

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 08:18:49 -0400, Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> wrote:
> I am gradually moving laptop...netbook...eventully desktop from Ub. to MX.
> Very smooth learning curve, some advantages, some disadvantages.
> On Ubuntu I have been running for about year with no snap or flatpak. If only I could avoid the horror that is systemd.
> We are supposed to have choice, but to choose 'no systemd' immediately implies 'not Ubuntu'
> Pity 'bout that.

When Mageia first implemented systemd, I was not in favour of it at first, but
decided to give it a fair chance and dig into it. After skimming through a lot
of documentation and experimenting with it, I changed my mind.

As leader of the qa team for Mageia linux, I had a lot more exposure than most
people to the problems with initd, where a change in one package would stop
other packages from starting and in many cases stop the system from getting
to a state where anyone could log in, except in run level 1. Most of those
mistakes were never seen by anyone other then the members of the qa team
and the packagers fixing the problems.

Similar mistakes in a package running under systemd are much less likely to
stop the system getting to a point where login is possible, and even in those
cases, they are much easier to fix.

There are things I don't like about systemd, such as the defaults for the max
size of the journal, but they are minor things that are easy to fix once you
understand how things work.

It's much more consistent in how things work. Instead of every package having
it's own custom start up script that can do things in a wide variety of ways,
each package has rules that systemd uses in a consistent way.

Like any init system, it has a learning curve in order to set things up properly
both for the packagers, and for the admin of the systems using it. It does much
more than just replace initd, and does so in consistent logical ways.

The learning curve in order to set things up properly both for the packagers, and
for the admin of the systems using it is steep, but so was the learning curve for
initd when I first started using it and debugging packages that use it.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

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