The list apparently.

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition Deluxe
Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge
Nanotale - Typing Chronicles
Guild of Ascension
Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion
Galaxy of Pen and Paper
House of 1000 Doors: Family Secrets

I can't say anything really grabs me and even the big hitter of Oblivion
feels a bit cheap. Oh and I've already got it and although I did put a
lot of hours into it I think much of that was because of the novelty.

The two parts I didn't like were the main story line of go to tower,
defeat bad thing, go to next tower and do the same thing. The second
thing, when I realised that many of the locations had no story to
explore but were instead go in fight some creatures and grab the loot.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>The two parts I didn't like were the main story line of go to tower,
>defeat bad thing, go to next tower and do the same thing. The second
>thing, when I realised that many of the locations had no story to
>explore but were instead go in fight some creatures and grab the loot.

That exactly explains the first Elder Scrolls game which is still the
only one I played.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>The list apparently.
>
> The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition Deluxe
> Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
> Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge
> Nanotale - Typing Chronicles
> Guild of Ascension
> Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion
> Galaxy of Pen and Paper
> House of 1000 Doors: Family Secrets
>
>I can't say anything really grabs me and even the big hitter of Oblivion
>feels a bit cheap. Oh and I've already got it and although I did put a
>lot of hours into it I think much of that was because of the novelty.

Yeah, a cheap month for Amazon. Bezos must be saving up for a new
yacht for his yacht for his yacht.

But, yeah, Oblivion? That's a cheap offer; it's not even Skyrim.
Bethesda gives that away every few months, and that was still too much
for Amazon? Tsk-tsk.

The others are filler of varying quality. "Monkey Island 2" is a fine
game - if dated - but it's been a freebie so often I can't imagine
many people don't have it already. I rather enjoyed the "Sword of Pen
and Paper" series (even if they were ports of rather shallow mobile
titles) but even so, I'm not sure I needed the sci-fi spin-off. And
the rest scream mobile-port or Indie game and generally don't look
like anything that would hold my attention for very long.

With Amazon constantly raising their price for Prime, you'd think
they'd offer more for what they charge. But mega-yachts don't come
cheap, I guess...

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>The list apparently.
>
> The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition Deluxe
> Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
> Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge
> Nanotale - Typing Chronicles
> Guild of Ascension
> Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion
> Galaxy of Pen and Paper
> House of 1000 Doors: Family Secrets
>
>I can't say anything really grabs me and even the big hitter of Oblivion
>feels a bit cheap. Oh and I've already got it and although I did put a
>lot of hours into it I think much of that was because of the novelty.
>
>The two parts I didn't like were the main story line of go to tower,
>defeat bad thing, go to next tower and do the same thing. The second
>thing, when I realised that many of the locations had no story to
>explore but were instead go in fight some creatures and grab the loot.

*--

Plants versus Zombies is one of the few games that kept me up late at
night playing. I didn't know there was an expansion.

Thanks,

-pw

On 3/31/2022 8:17 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>
>> The list apparently.
>>
>> The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition Deluxe
>> Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
>> Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge
>> Nanotale - Typing Chronicles
>> Guild of Ascension
>> Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion
>> Galaxy of Pen and Paper
>> House of 1000 Doors: Family Secrets
>>
>> I can't say anything really grabs me and even the big hitter of Oblivion
>> feels a bit cheap. Oh and I've already got it and although I did put a
>> lot of hours into it I think much of that was because of the novelty.
>
> Yeah, a cheap month for Amazon. Bezos must be saving up for a new
> yacht for his yacht for his yacht.
>
> But, yeah, Oblivion? That's a cheap offer; it's not even Skyrim.
> Bethesda gives that away every few months, and that was still too much
> for Amazon? Tsk-tsk.
>
> The others are filler of varying quality. "Monkey Island 2" is a fine
> game - if dated - but it's been a freebie so often I can't imagine
> many people don't have it already. I rather enjoyed the "Sword of Pen
> and Paper" series (even if they were ports of rather shallow mobile
> titles) but even so, I'm not sure I needed the sci-fi spin-off. And
> the rest scream mobile-port or Indie game and generally don't look
> like anything that would hold my attention for very long.
>
> With Amazon constantly raising their price for Prime, you'd think
> they'd offer more for what they charge. But mega-yachts don't come
> cheap, I guess...
>
Mega-yachts are passe. The NEW mega-billion shiney sparkly thing to
impress others with now is your own space agency.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

ess...
>>
>Mega-yachts are passe. The NEW mega-billion shiney sparkly thing to
>impress others with now is your own space agency.

*--

I received my Starlink kit about two plus months ago. I can't fully
use it (just did a quick test in the middle of winter). I have been
waiting for a wall mount and ethernet adapter since then.

At least they debited my account so far for not being able to use it.

-pw

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 12:08:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 3/31/2022 8:17 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> The list apparently.
>>>
>>> The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition Deluxe
>>> Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
>>> Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge
>>> Nanotale - Typing Chronicles
>>> Guild of Ascension
>>> Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion
>>> Galaxy of Pen and Paper
>>> House of 1000 Doors: Family Secrets

>> With Amazon constantly raising their price for Prime, you'd think
>> they'd offer more for what they charge. But mega-yachts don't come
>> cheap, I guess...

>Mega-yachts are passe. The NEW mega-billion shiney sparkly thing to
>impress others with now is your own space agency.

Coming soon: space yachts?

Just so long as it looks like a penis, I suppose.

On 3/31/2022 8:15 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 12:08:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/31/2022 8:17 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The list apparently.
>>>>
>>>> The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition Deluxe
>>>> Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
>>>> Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge
>>>> Nanotale - Typing Chronicles
>>>> Guild of Ascension
>>>> Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion
>>>> Galaxy of Pen and Paper
>>>> House of 1000 Doors: Family Secrets
>
>
>>> With Amazon constantly raising their price for Prime, you'd think
>>> they'd offer more for what they charge. But mega-yachts don't come
>>> cheap, I guess...
>
>> Mega-yachts are passe. The NEW mega-billion shiney sparkly thing to
>> impress others with now is your own space agency.
>
> Coming soon: space yachts?
>
> Just so long as it looks like a penis, I suppose.
>
It also helps if the penis shaped thing can get up. :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Am 31.03.22 um 17:17 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> The others are filler of varying quality. "Monkey Island 2" is a fine
> game - if dated - but it's been a freebie so often I can't imagine
> many people don't have it already.
I have the old version, but not the new one, never came around to claim
the remake or buy it although it is better than MI1.

On 31/03/2022 13:54, Mike S. wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>
>> The two parts I didn't like were the main story line of go to tower,
>> defeat bad thing, go to next tower and do the same thing. The second
>> thing, when I realised that many of the locations had no story to
>> explore but were instead go in fight some creatures and grab the loot.
>
> That exactly explains the first Elder Scrolls game which is still the
> only one I played.

Not played that one but Skyrim I found good as they seemed to spend more
time actually putting interesting things in the game rather than filler.
I do like the idea that you can just wander off in any direction you
like and find something to explore.

On 4/1/2022 1:12 AM, JAB wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 13:54, Mike S. wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> The two parts I didn't like were the main story line of go to tower,
>>> defeat bad thing, go to next tower and do the same thing. The second
>>> thing, when I realised that many of the locations had no story to
>>> explore but were instead go in fight some creatures and grab the loot.
>>
>> That exactly explains the first Elder Scrolls game which is still the
>> only one I played.
>
> Not played that one but Skyrim I found good as they seemed to spend more
> time actually putting interesting things in the game rather than filler.
> I do like the idea that you can just wander off in any direction you
> like and find something to explore.

That's pretty much true of III and IV as well. I believe the standard
advice on playing an Elder Scrolls game is to ignore the main story and
just wander around. ;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 08:25:36 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 4/1/2022 1:12 AM, JAB wrote:
>> On 31/03/2022 13:54, Mike S. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0100, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>>>> The two parts I didn't like were the main story line of go to tower,
>>>> defeat bad thing, go to next tower and do the same thing. The second
>>>> thing, when I realised that many of the locations had no story to
>>>> explore but were instead go in fight some creatures and grab the loot.

>>> That exactly explains the first Elder Scrolls game which is still the
>>> only one I played.

>> Not played that one but Skyrim I found good as they seemed to spend more
>> time actually putting interesting things in the game rather than filler.
>> I do like the idea that you can just wander off in any direction you
>> like and find something to explore.

>That's pretty much true of III and IV as well. I believe the standard
>advice on playing an Elder Scrolls game is to ignore the main story and
>just wander around. ;)

Bethesda's games were never strong on character or story. They were
all about creating an expansive world and delighting the character
with the joy of discovery: what will I see if I cross over that hill
or delve into that cave? I love the games for this, but I'm a fan of a
nice long ramble across the countryside (and Usenet, natch ;-).

While the locations you'd discover tended not to have much connection
to the overall plot or any extended quests associated with them, to
say they were devoid of story is, I think, disingenuous. Most were
self-contained vignettes that told a tiny tale using nothing more than
environmental storytelling that divulged their secrets with a little
bit of imagination. A skeleton and a sword half-buried beneath a
rockpile; a corpse with a ring of fireball surrounded by burn marks on
the nearby terrain, a treasure chest half-buried in a beach with
shovels and dead pirates all around.

In tabletop roleplaying, there's also a similar division between types
of players: the ones who are largely interested in the quest and have
little patience for unnecessary diversions, and those who are
defiantly opposed to what they see as 'rail-roading' by the DM and
prefer to wander the world and take what comes (neither group, of
course, is monolithic and even an individual player's preference can
vary greatly depending on mood). I myself like both types (although I
trend more towards the latter).

The Elder Scrolls series of video-games definitely cater towards the
'wander about' crowd more, though. It's not a game so much as solving
some existential threat to the universe as it is about finding your
characters place in that world. It may not be to everyone's taste -
and technological limitations, especially of the older gamers, make
its attempts at such expansivity almost laughable - but neither should
they be disregared as shallow games. They're just aiming at different
types of players.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:35:47 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>In tabletop roleplaying, there's also a similar division between types
>of players: the ones who are largely interested in the quest and have
>little patience for unnecessary diversions, and those who are
>defiantly opposed to what they see as 'rail-roading' by the DM and
>prefer to wander the world and take what comes (neither group, of
>course, is monolithic and even an individual player's preference can
>vary greatly depending on mood). I myself like both types (although I
>trend more towards the latter).

I think I sit in the middle of these two extremes. A story focused RPG
is going to make me feel like a marionette on strings, with the game
designer (or the game's storyteller) being the puppeteer. I should be
doing my own thing, not what the game designer wants me to do.

But on the other end, you have something like Arena or Daggerfall
which is just too open ended, too procedurally generated, too generic,
too cookie-cutter. At least Arena felt that way!

For me, something in the middle is best. Maybe something like the
early Fallouts or Baldur's Gate.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 09:00:46 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:35:47 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>In tabletop roleplaying, there's also a similar division between types
>>of players: the ones who are largely interested in the quest and have
>>little patience for unnecessary diversions, and those who are
>>defiantly opposed to what they see as 'rail-roading' by the DM and
>>prefer to wander the world and take what comes (neither group, of
>>course, is monolithic and even an individual player's preference can
>>vary greatly depending on mood). I myself like both types (although I
>>trend more towards the latter).
>
>I think I sit in the middle of these two extremes. A story focused RPG
>is going to make me feel like a marionette on strings, with the game
>designer (or the game's storyteller) being the puppeteer. I should be
>doing my own thing, not what the game designer wants me to do.

>But on the other end, you have something like Arena or Daggerfall
>which is just too open ended, too procedurally generated, too generic,
>too cookie-cutter. At least Arena felt that way!

>For me, something in the middle is best. Maybe something like the
>early Fallouts or Baldur's Gate.

I think most people fall in-between. The ideal is a strong story-based
game which cleverly hides the fact that you are being funneled down a
particular path, presenting the illusion that every choice you make is
your own while subtly guiding you exactly in the direction you're
supposed to go. Valve is (or was) seen to be an expert at this, thanks
in a large part to their heavily iterative development method; even
though their games are little more than corridor shooters, you rarely
mind - or even notice - how closely you are railroaded.

I think one of the problems is that we too often expect games to
provide dozens - if not hundreds of hours of playtime - and somehow
feel ripped off if there's less. Developers often provide this by
creating immense worlds and letting people wander hither and thon at
whatever speed they want, but this comes at a cost to proper pacing,
which is an undervalued part of game development. I mentioned
something similar in this month's "What Have You Been Playing" thread
about how - as much as I adore traipsing the wilds of "The Witcher 3"
- it gets to a point where there's just too much game and I feel that
some careful pruning may have made for a better game. But I'll also be
the first to admit that finding that balance - deciding where and what
to prune, and how much freedom to allow the player - is possibly the
most difficult part of game development.

And not to harp too much on it, but that's still one of the greatest
strengths of a tabletop game; unlike the pre-programmed quests and
worlds of our digital entertainments, a good game-master can modify
the game on-the-fly to better suit the needs and wants of his group. I
yearn for - and dread - the day when computers can do the same; the
former because we'll then have achieved gaming perfection (or as close
as), and dread because that'll probably spell the end of tabletop
gaming as a hobby. ;-)

So my description of the types of games/gamers wasn't so much to let
people pigeon-hole themselves as attitudes to watch out for. Different
games are trying to achieve different things - not always with success
- and it helps to understand those goals when playing the games. If
you go into "Fallout" expecting something like "Baldurs Gate", of
course you'll be disappointed (and vice versa, obviously). But if you
figure out what the developers were trying to achieve and play along
with it, you'll probably have more fun.

As for me, I'll probably just bitch about how nothing ever is as good
as those old DOS CRPGs, just to be contrary. ;-)

On 03/04/2022 02:38, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 09:00:46 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:35:47 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
>> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In tabletop roleplaying, there's also a similar division between types
>>> of players: the ones who are largely interested in the quest and have
>>> little patience for unnecessary diversions, and those who are
>>> defiantly opposed to what they see as 'rail-roading' by the DM and
>>> prefer to wander the world and take what comes (neither group, of
>>> course, is monolithic and even an individual player's preference can
>>> vary greatly depending on mood). I myself like both types (although I
>>> trend more towards the latter).
>>
>> I think I sit in the middle of these two extremes. A story focused RPG
>> is going to make me feel like a marionette on strings, with the game
>> designer (or the game's storyteller) being the puppeteer. I should be
>> doing my own thing, not what the game designer wants me to do.
>
>> But on the other end, you have something like Arena or Daggerfall
>> which is just too open ended, too procedurally generated, too generic,
>> too cookie-cutter. At least Arena felt that way!
>
>> For me, something in the middle is best. Maybe something like the
>> early Fallouts or Baldur's Gate.
>
> I think most people fall in-between. The ideal is a strong story-based
> game which cleverly hides the fact that you are being funneled down a
> particular path, presenting the illusion that every choice you make is
> your own while subtly guiding you exactly in the direction you're
> supposed to go. Valve is (or was) seen to be an expert at this, thanks
> in a large part to their heavily iterative development method; even
> though their games are little more than corridor shooters, you rarely
> mind - or even notice - how closely you are railroaded.
>
> I think one of the problems is that we too often expect games to
> provide dozens - if not hundreds of hours of playtime - and somehow
> feel ripped off if there's less. Developers often provide this by
> creating immense worlds and letting people wander hither and thon at
> whatever speed they want, but this comes at a cost to proper pacing,
> which is an undervalued part of game development. I mentioned
> something similar in this month's "What Have You Been Playing" thread
> about how - as much as I adore traipsing the wilds of "The Witcher 3"
> - it gets to a point where there's just too much game and I feel that
> some careful pruning may have made for a better game. But I'll also be
> the first to admit that finding that balance - deciding where and what
> to prune, and how much freedom to allow the player - is possibly the
> most difficult part of game development.
>
> And not to harp too much on it, but that's still one of the greatest
> strengths of a tabletop game; unlike the pre-programmed quests and
> worlds of our digital entertainments, a good game-master can modify
> the game on-the-fly to better suit the needs and wants of his group. I
> yearn for - and dread - the day when computers can do the same; the
> former because we'll then have achieved gaming perfection (or as close
> as), and dread because that'll probably spell the end of tabletop
> gaming as a hobby. ;-)
>
> So my description of the types of games/gamers wasn't so much to let
> people pigeon-hole themselves as attitudes to watch out for. Different
> games are trying to achieve different things - not always with success
> - and it helps to understand those goals when playing the games. If
> you go into "Fallout" expecting something like "Baldurs Gate", of
> course you'll be disappointed (and vice versa, obviously). But if you
> figure out what the developers were trying to achieve and play along
> with it, you'll probably have more fun.
>
> As for me, I'll probably just bitch about how nothing ever is as good
> as those old DOS CRPGs, just to be contrary. ;-)
>

What I want out of a CRPG is somewhat different to what I want out of a
TT RPG. I think a lot of that is I understand the limitations of both so
I want what they can do best. For CRPG's I really liked FO:3/NV and
Skyrim for the large worlds where you can just set out and do your own
thing while pretty much ignoring the main story arc. TT RPG's just
aren't that good at that as even if you have a GM that's good at
on-the-fly improvisation of a story there's a limit to what they can do
if you go complete against the flow of it. I can't remember who said it
but is was very much along the lines of the art of a good GM is
immersing the players in a world where the feel they can do anything
while at the same time railroading them to keep them on track.

For me the real strength of TT RPG's is roleplaying how your character
would react (not what the story demands) and co-operative story telling.
CRPG's just aren't very good at that as the designer is basically trying
to second guess how a player will react and anything outside of that,
well bad luck that's not an option. To put it simply player agency is
fairly limited.

Just my thoughts.