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computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

SubjectAuthor
* move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid W. Hodgins
|+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid W. Hodgins
|| `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKdruck
||  +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||  |+- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKdruck
||  | `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||  |  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKdruck
||  |   `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||  +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKJohn-Paul Stewart
||  |`- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||  `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKBob Latham
|+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKTheo
||`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|| +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
|| |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|| | `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRichard Kettlewell
|| +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|| +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKJohn-Paul Stewart
|| `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid W. Hodgins
||  `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.302
| `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|   `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|    +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|    `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKJan Panteltje
|     +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|     |+- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     | `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|     |  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     |   +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|     |   |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     |   | `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|     |   |  +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKJan Panteltje
|     |   |  |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|     |   |  | `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|     |   |  |  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     |   |  |   `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|     |   |  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     |   |   +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|     |   |   |`- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|     |   |   `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRobert Riches
|     |   `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|     `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|      +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKJan Panteltje
|      `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|       +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|       +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|       `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|        +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|        |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|        | `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|        |  +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|        |  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|        |   +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|        |   |+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
|        |   ||`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|        |   || `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
|        |   ||  `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|        |   |+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|        |   ||`- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
|        |   |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|        |   | +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|        |   | |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|        |   | | `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|        |   | |  +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|        |   | |  `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
|        |   | `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
|        |   `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKTauno Voipio
|        `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKJan Panteltje
|         `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
|          `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDennis Lee Bieber
|           `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK23k.304
+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRobert Heller
|+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRobert Heller
|||+* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKComputer Nerd Kev
||||`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid W. Hodgins
|||| `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||||  `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKComputer Nerd Kev
||||   +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKCarlos E.R.
||||   |`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid W. Hodgins
||||   | `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||||   `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||||    `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRich
||||     `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRobert Heller
||||      `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||||       `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKRobert Heller
||||        `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||||         `* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDave
||||          +* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
||||          |`- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||||          +- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDennis Lee Bieber
||||          `- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
|||+- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKAhem A Rivet's Shot
|||`- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKThe Natural Philosopher
||`- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid W. Hodgins
|`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKPancho
+- Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKDavid Taylor
`* Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISKmm0fmf

Pages:123456789
Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

<uahnda$14b9e$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 03:22:33 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 02:22 UTC

On 03/08/2023 20:50, Rich wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/08/2023 10:43, Pancho wrote:
>>> OK, I remember looking at this back in December and coming to the
>>> conclusion it was hopeless. Micro SD cards (probably) don't do
>>> active wear levelling + I wasn't clear what IO actually killed them.
>>> I seem to remember, someone suggesting it was the EXT4 journal file
>>> that was the problem rather than logs.
>>
>> That is a slightly terrifying thought...does anyone have any more
>> information?
>> Mm. It would seem that while journalling multiplies the number of
>> writes, it wont impact what amounts to a read-only or 'write very
>> rarely' filesystem.
>
> The problem with the ext4 journal and a SD card /without wear leveling/
> is the journal is in a fixed location on the disk, so any write
> anywhere that is journaled also becomes a write onto the journal area
> of the disk. So the flash cells underlying the area of the journal see
> far more writes than the rest of the cells, and wear out sooner.
>
Mmm. But that goes for directory entries which get time stamped, as well
I think any card with NO wear levelling - that is no mapping from
logical to physical sectors - is not going to work as a card at all,
because the OS will be dealing in much smaller sectors than the SD card,
and the card has to erase large blocks.

So there must be some processor shit going on to map logical to physical
blocks and it is then no cost saving to have shit software.
Unfortunately that means you need to have somewhere to store that
mapping, and THAT area will get a lot of writes. Dunno how they manage that.

I suspect the cheaper chips have substandard NVRAM

> Now, *with wear leveling* those journal writes that are logically to
> the same blocks on the disk get spread all over the flash cells via the
> wear leveling controller, mitigating the issue of a lot of writes
> happening to the same blocks on the disk. The write amplification
> issue is still present in any case.
>
> But agreed, as you've reduced the number of writes to a bare minimum,
> you likely won't need to worry about whether your sd card has, or does
> not have, a wear leveling controller. Few to zero writes means little
> to no wear.

Yes. When I thought about what was happening in the application, the
user makes occasional config changes, but apart from that, nothing needs
to change. If it goes wrong, unless it's me, logs are pointless. And I
am keeping RAM logs, which are worth it for live debugging.

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 03:29:31 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 02:29 UTC

On 03/08/2023 21:20, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2023 14:57:22 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> That is a slightly terrifying thought...does anyone have any more
>> information?
>> Mm. It would seem that while journalling multiplies the number of
>> writes, it wont impact what amounts to a read-only or 'write very
>> rarely' filesystem.
>> Phew.
>> Obviously of you are wring huge amounts of data over and over again you
>> would probably attach an SSD via USB anyway..
>
> I'm using 11 GB of a 32 GB sd card using ext4 on an rpi 4b. A little
> slow to boot
> but otherwise performance pretty good. It's running kde plasma, with no
> workarounds
> to avoid extra writes, just disabling things I don't like in plasma like
> desktop
> effects and most background services.
>
> # free -m
>                total        used        free      shared  buff/cache
> available
> Mem:            3831        1289        1141          49
> 1400        2305
> Swap:           6696           0        6696
>
> It's currently running konversation and guvcview for a camera, but I've
> used
> firefox on it too. Firefox is slow, but not unusable.
>
> I use it mainly for konversation so I can do things on my main desktop
> system
> while discussing things in irc.
>
> I have some spare sd cards just in case and keep regular backups on my main
> system. I've been running it with the same sd card since Feb. 2021.
>
> The sd cards are in packages labeled Lexar high-performance 633x
> microSDHC UHS-I.
>
> I have no idea if that does wear leveling.
>
> The rpi 4b has much better performance than I expected given that it's
> using
> an sd card. I was going to try xfce4 with it, but after seeing it's
> performance
> decided to try kde plasma.
>
> Using something like f2fs would probably be better, but ext4 is working
> fine for
> me. Knock on wood. :-)
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins

I dunno how fast an SSD with a USB interface would be compared with a
SATA, but if I was using a pi for user level stuff, I'd want some kind
of SSD in there with the SD card only there to boot the thing.

My impressions is that a Pi is about as fast as a 486 used to be. or
maybe a bit more. Many people say the latest Pi is pentium 4 level or
thereabouts.

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 03:38:17 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 02:38 UTC

On 03/08/2023 23:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 23:28:06 +0100
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@Proton.Me> wrote:
>
>> I guessed that the worry was that the journal was a smallish single
>> file, used as a circular buffer (maybe 128MB). So, without wear
>> levelling, the same few blocks would be getting hit all the time.
>
> Remember write amplification - flash storage uses very large blocks
> 1MB or more so small writes involve copying most of a block, writing a new
> one with the changes and queing the old one to be wiped.
>
Indeed.

Oddly enough my SSD drives seem to be lasting better than the spinning
rust they replaced. The wear levelling in THOSE really works.
So my tentative feeling at this point in time is that while /boot might
be on the SD card, if I were to use a pi for serious R/W everything else
would be an SSD mounted somehow at boot. I believe with later PIs you
can boot the whole thing from USB/SSD or rust.

For me that leads to a sort of tentative conclusions - if I want a busy
server, or user desktop, I'd pick a late model Pi and USB boot it. If I
want an embedded device, I'd pick an SD card and tune the OS not to use
it, if possible.

And for serious storage, the later OS supports SATA hats...

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
References: <ua3ijl$2m0am$1@dont-email.me> <op.18uwwysca3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net> <sLKcnQERn8HAiVr5nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@earthlink.com> <ua7v3m$386mt$2@dont-email.me> <vaycnS3WH8ImQ1T5nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <uae1bt$5slp$1@dont-email.me> <uafida$2100$1@solani.org>
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 by: 23k.304 - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 05:08 UTC

On 8/3/23 2:44 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Wed, 2 Aug 2023 17:47:56 +0100) it happened The Natural
> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uae1bt$5slp$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>>
>>
>>>   ANYway, /var/log CAN be moved to a RAMdisk if you want.
>>>   Not 100% sure WHY you'd want to, but it CAN. If a few
>>>   very early logs get 'lost' as you re-direct /var/log
>>>   then that MIGHT not be all so important. If you want
>>>   it all on RAMdisk then you don't CARE if it all
>>>   vanishes on reboot. I very rarely look in /var/log
>>>   anyhow so ....
>>
>> As I said, whoever you are, the less writing to an SD drive there is,
>> the less chance there is of file system corruption when the power goes out.
>
> To avoid restarts on power failure use a UPS (I do) or just a simple battery circuit
> was it not called 'battery hat' or something? with the Pi.

I remember the "battery hat" - still sold :

https://www.waveshare.com/li-ion-battery-hat.htm

But MOST Pi's, because of the high power consumption,
still run off the mains - so a UPS is probably the
simplest option. The "battery hat" however might
serve to deal with very short interruptions.

However I don't think the most stress to SD cards
is on boot - but during regular USE ... the usual
data churning and loading system apps from the
card. If "ping" is used, well, where does it COME
from on a PI ? The SD card. Each application has
to be examined to see what routines are used and
put them into a RAMdisk or whatever. Remember,
even reading an SD card involves re-writing the
thing, that's how the tech works.

>> Its simply a natural habit to ensure than whatever an embedded system
>> does is the minimum necessary to get the job done with the maximum
>> reliability.
>>
>> The SD card looks like it might be the weakest link. So I am trying to
>> reduce stress on it.
>
> For many things Pi is too much power, much can be done with a simple PIC 18F14K22
> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/index.html
> take scope_pic or freq_pic from that site.
> *IF* you like to code in asm :-)
> Only milli-amps curent consumption
> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
>
> So much bloat these days just to say 'hello world'
> I designed a ram disk for the Z80, wrote a CP/M clone too
> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html

Hey, I *remember* those days ! Bill Gates kinda rose
to fame because there used to be contests over how to
write basic functions in the very least number of
bytes/cycles. Consider how TINY his BASIC was at the
start, yet could DO so much. These days - ten or more
times the pork for barely more function and if it
doesn't have a giant slick GUI nobody wants to use it.

Yea, Bill became a total asshole, but at the beginning ...

I've always liked micro-controllers. Very little RAM/ROM
or even speed. The goal is to use every trick to squeeze
as much function from every single byte as possible. That
is an entirely different philosophy from what we commonly
see today.

Used to do ASM on micro-controllers, but over the past
decade the better 'C' compilers are actually smarter,
can do the same in even fewer bytes/cycles than most
human-writ code. Not by a HUGE margin, but, on tiny
devices, maybe enough.

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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 by: 23k.304 - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 05:39 UTC

On 8/3/23 5:08 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/08/2023 07:44, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 2 Aug 2023 17:47:56 +0100) it happened The Natural
>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uae1bt$5slp$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>     ANYway, /var/log CAN be moved to a RAMdisk if you want.
>>>>     Not 100% sure WHY you'd want to, but it CAN. If a few
>>>>     very early logs get 'lost' as you re-direct /var/log
>>>>     then that MIGHT not be all so important. If you want
>>>>     it all on RAMdisk then you don't CARE if it all
>>>>     vanishes on reboot. I very rarely look in /var/log
>>>>     anyhow so ....
>>>
>>> As I said, whoever you are, the less writing to an SD drive there is,
>>> the less chance there is of file system corruption when the power
>>> goes out.
>>
>> To avoid restarts on power failure use a UPS (I do) or just a simple
>> battery circuit
>> was it not called 'battery hat' or something? with the Pi.
>>
>>
> Restarts are not a problem really. the whole central heating system dies
> when the power goes out anyway.
>
> If I wanted to run through that I'd UPS the whole damned thing.
>
>>
>>> Its simply a natural habit to ensure than whatever an embedded system
>>> does is the minimum necessary to get the job done with the maximum
>>> reliability.
>>>
>>> The SD card looks like it might be the weakest link. So I am trying to
>>> reduce stress on it.
>>
>> So much bloat these days just to say 'hello world'
>
> no argument there. Was there even at the time of MSDOS. I once traced
> through the code that ran when you hit a key on the keyboard. Thousands
> of instructions
>
>> I designed a ram disk for the Z80, wrote a CP/M clone too
>>   https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html
>>
>>
> Neat stuff

Yep, and FAMILIAR too. This was the kind of stuff
"developers" had to deal with back in the day, right
down to making the hardware. No "standard drivers"
or off-the-shelf plug-in cards back then worth shit.
If it was worth doing you had to do it ALL yourself
from the crappy chips on up.

Such INTERESTING days ! :-)

I'd say maybe 1830-1900 were equally interesting for
the old MECHANICAL developers. Ah to be on Edison's
team (even though he was an asshole) !!! :-)

Some new "interesting days", or "day", may be yet to
come - but it's in "AI" development. After that
there's nothing left (for humans). It'll be
robotopia, or the "Savage Reservation" ....

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

<uai3sm$38qn$1@solani.org>

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From: ali...@comet.invalid (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2023 05:55:33 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 05:55 UTC

On a sunny day (Fri, 4 Aug 2023 01:08:14 -0400) it happened "23k.304"
<23k304@bfxw9.net> wrote in <x4mcnaG1KMJQGlH5nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@earthlink.com>:

>On 8/3/23 2:44 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 2 Aug 2023 17:47:56 +0100) it happened The Natural
>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uae1bt$5slp$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>   ANYway, /var/log CAN be moved to a RAMdisk if you want.
>>>>   Not 100% sure WHY you'd want to, but it CAN. If a few
>>>>   very early logs get 'lost' as you re-direct /var/log
>>>>   then that MIGHT not be all so important. If you want
>>>>   it all on RAMdisk then you don't CARE if it all
>>>>   vanishes on reboot. I very rarely look in /var/log
>>>>   anyhow so ....
>>>
>>> As I said, whoever you are, the less writing to an SD drive there is,
>>> the less chance there is of file system corruption when the power goes out.
>>
>> To avoid restarts on power failure use a UPS (I do) or just a simple battery circuit
>> was it not called 'battery hat' or something? with the Pi.
>
>
> I remember the "battery hat" - still sold :
>
> https://www.waveshare.com/li-ion-battery-hat.htm
>
> But MOST Pi's, because of the high power consumption,
> still run off the mains - so a UPS is probably the
> simplest option. The "battery hat" however might
> serve to deal with very short interruptions.
>
> However I don't think the most stress to SD cards
> is on boot - but during regular USE ... the usual
> data churning and loading system apps from the
> card. If "ping" is used, well, where does it COME
> from on a PI ? The SD card. Each application has
> to be examined to see what routines are used and
> put them into a RAMdisk or whatever. Remember,
> even reading an SD card involves re-writing the
> thing, that's how the tech works.

I dunno..
I have an old Pi uname -a says Feb 2013.. so >10 years, on 24/7,
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/xgpspc/index.html
I use it to monitor things like air traffic, shipping traffic,
weather data like air pressure, temperature etc, runs as server.
It ran on some old sdcard then when I moved house some years ago
I replaced that sdcard wih a Samsung one, think reason was I messed up something.
It does log weather all the time..
An other Pi as client logs everything else.
Some screenshots:
panteltje.nl/pub/xgpspc_functie_H.gif
panteltje.nl/pub/boats_and_planes.gif
panteltje.nl/pub/xgpspc_5_planes.gif

But never a problem with the old card and the Samsung SD cards.
This I write on a Pi4 8 GB with the Usenet news reader I wrote that I ported to it:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
32 GB Samsung SDcard..
There is several GB data - Usenet posts - from the last 20 years or so and updated every time I go online and post or read here.
firefox or chromium browser used every day,
I do have a Toshiba 4 TB harddisk connected but most writing from firefox and downloads I do go to the SDcard,
then are backed up to that Toshiba.

raspberrypi: ~ # df
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 30446232 23535028 5566020 81% /
....
....
/dev/mmcblk0p1 258095 50411 207685 20% /boot
tmpfs 808848 20 808828 1% /run/user/1000
/dev/sdb2 3844510712 2411345180 1237804868 67% /mnt/sda2
raspberrypi: ~ # uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 5.15.32-v7l+ #1538 SMP Thu Mar 31 19:39:41 BST 2022 armv7l GNU/Linux

>
>>> Its simply a natural habit to ensure than whatever an embedded system
>>> does is the minimum necessary to get the job done with the maximum
>>> reliability.
>>>
>>> The SD card looks like it might be the weakest link. So I am trying to
>>> reduce stress on it.

Well we will see....

It makes sense to backup your data on a regular basis and make a copy of the card every month? year?
Card hardware failures are rare, I suspect more failures are with the filesystem.
I have a 20 year? old 16 GB Duracell USB stick with Reiserfs that seems to always work, used every day.
Some ext4 I have had serious problems with.. Becoming unreadable.

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: dwhodg...@nomail.afraid.org (David W. Hodgins)
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Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 03:15 UTC

On Thu, 03 Aug 2023 22:29:31 -0400, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I dunno how fast an SSD with a USB interface would be compared with a
> SATA, but if I was using a pi for user level stuff, I'd want some kind
> of SSD in there with the SD card only there to boot the thing.

sd cards are a lot cheaper. :-)

> My impressions is that a Pi is about as fast as a 486 used to be. or
> maybe a bit more. Many people say the latest Pi is pentium 4 level or
> thereabouts.

This is an rpi 4b, which is a quad core (1 thread per core) and 4GB ram.

lscpu shows 108.0 BogoMIPS, while my desktop system with an AMD FX(tm)-4170
Quad-Core Processor from 2012 shows 8428.66 BoboMIPS.
Despite the low number of BogoMIPS, I'm still impressed by it overall.

It's fine for running the few applications I use it for.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 05:51 UTC

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 03:38:17 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> For me that leads to a sort of tentative conclusions - if I want a busy
> server, or user desktop, I'd pick a late model Pi and USB boot it. If I
> want an embedded device, I'd pick an SD card and tune the OS not to use
> it, if possible.

That seems right to me too.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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 by: 23k.304 - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 06:03 UTC

On 8/3/23 5:08 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/08/2023 07:44, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 2 Aug 2023 17:47:56 +0100) it happened The Natural
>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uae1bt$5slp$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>     ANYway, /var/log CAN be moved to a RAMdisk if you want.
>>>>     Not 100% sure WHY you'd want to, but it CAN. If a few
>>>>     very early logs get 'lost' as you re-direct /var/log
>>>>     then that MIGHT not be all so important. If you want
>>>>     it all on RAMdisk then you don't CARE if it all
>>>>     vanishes on reboot. I very rarely look in /var/log
>>>>     anyhow so ....
>>>
>>> As I said, whoever you are, the less writing to an SD drive there is,
>>> the less chance there is of file system corruption when the power
>>> goes out.
>>
>> To avoid restarts on power failure use a UPS (I do) or just a simple
>> battery circuit
>> was it not called 'battery hat' or something? with the Pi.
>>
>>
> Restarts are not a problem really. the whole central heating system dies
> when the power goes out anyway.
>
> If I wanted to run through that I'd UPS the whole damned thing.
>
>>
>>> Its simply a natural habit to ensure than whatever an embedded system
>>> does is the minimum necessary to get the job done with the maximum
>>> reliability.
>>>
>>> The SD card looks like it might be the weakest link. So I am trying to
>>> reduce stress on it.
>>
>> So much bloat these days just to say 'hello world'
>
> no argument there. Was there even at the time of MSDOS. I once traced
> through the code that ran when you hit a key on the keyboard. Thousands
> of instructions

Heh, heh ... ALWAYS a lot more complicated than it SEEMS :-)

On the old IBM-PCs there were a bunch, a whole bunch, of
BIOS routines. These were pretty well optimized code
due to size limits of the time. Using ASM you could
exploit them nicely - get KB input, do X-Y output to
the monitor, like all the stuff you'd need for a
smart WYSIWYG text editor, all from these built-in
routines.

Still have the old IBM Technical Reference Manual.
All that stuff was meticulously documented.

>> I designed a ram disk for the Z80, wrote a CP/M clone too
>>   https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html
>>
>>
> Neat stuff
>
>

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 09:51:48 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 08:51 UTC

On 04/08/2023 06:08, 23k.304 wrote:
> On 8/3/23 2:44 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 2 Aug 2023 17:47:56 +0100) it happened The Natural
>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uae1bt$5slp$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>     ANYway, /var/log CAN be moved to a RAMdisk if you want.
>>>>     Not 100% sure WHY you'd want to, but it CAN. If a few
>>>>     very early logs get 'lost' as you re-direct /var/log
>>>>     then that MIGHT not be all so important. If you want
>>>>     it all on RAMdisk then you don't CARE if it all
>>>>     vanishes on reboot. I very rarely look in /var/log
>>>>     anyhow so ....
>>>
>>> As I said, whoever you are, the less writing to an SD drive there is,
>>> the less chance there is of file system corruption when the power
>>> goes out.
>>
>> To avoid restarts on power failure use a UPS (I do) or just a simple
>> battery circuit
>> was it not called 'battery hat' or something? with the Pi.
>
>
>   I remember the "battery hat" - still sold :
>
>   https://www.waveshare.com/li-ion-battery-hat.htm
>
>   But MOST Pi's, because of the high power consumption,
>   still run off the mains - so a UPS is probably the
>   simplest option. The "battery hat" however might
>   serve to deal with very short interruptions.
>
>   However I don't think the most stress to SD cards
>   is on boot - but during regular USE ... the usual
>   data churning and loading system apps from the
>   card. If "ping" is used, well, where does it COME
>   from on a PI ? The SD card. Each application has
>   to be examined to see what routines are used and
>   put them into a RAMdisk or whatever. Remember,
>   even reading an SD card involves re-writing the
>   thing, that's how the tech works.
>
>
I am not sure it actually does. If you turn off 'last read' with 'noatime'
Which you surely would if you cared enough

>   Used to do ASM on micro-controllers, but over the past
>   decade the better 'C' compilers are actually smarter,
>   can do the same in even fewer bytes/cycles than most
>   human-writ code. Not by a HUGE margin, but, on tiny
>   devices, maybe enough.

Oh yes. The days of trying to write C that didn't turn into bloat on an
8 bit 6809...are long gone

I occasionally looked at .a files on *86, and they wrote better
assembler than I could.

So much so that I gave up looking.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 09:57:30 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 08:57 UTC

On 04/08/2023 04:15, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2023 22:29:31 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> I dunno how fast an SSD with a USB interface would be compared with a
>> SATA, but if I was using a pi for user level stuff, I'd want some kind
>> of SSD in there with the SD card only there to boot the thing.
>
> sd cards are a lot cheaper. :-)

But like a bicycle compared to a Ferrari, they are a lot slower, too
SSD simply flies.

>
>> My impressions is that a Pi is about as fast as a 486 used to be. or
>> maybe a bit more. Many people say the latest Pi is pentium 4 level or
>> thereabouts.
>
> This is an rpi 4b, which is a quad core (1 thread per core) and 4GB ram.
>
> lscpu shows 108.0 BogoMIPS, while my desktop system with an AMD FX(tm)-4170
> Quad-Core Processor from 2012 shows 8428.66 BoboMIPS.
> Despite the low number of BogoMIPS, I'm still impressed by it overall.
>
> It's fine for running the few applications I use it for.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins

Pi Zero W: BogoMIPS: 697.95
My desktop - refurbed HP: BogoMIPS: 5399.81

But it makes no sense - my old server which is nowher as fast show s
more bogomips

--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 08:58 UTC

On 04/08/2023 07:03, 23k.304 wrote:
> Still have the old IBM Technical Reference Manual.
>   All that stuff was meticulously documented.

I gave that away sometime in the late 80s.

--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

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Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 09:06 UTC

On 04/08/2023 09:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I am not sure it actually does. If you turn off 'last read' with 'noatime'
> Which you surely would if you cared enough

My Pi Zero W came with 'noatime' configured

root@heating-controller:~# more /etc/fstab
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-01 /boot vfat defaults 0 2
PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-02 / ext4 defaults,noatime 0 1
# a swapfile is not a swap partition, no line here
# use dphys-swapfile swap[on|off] for that
tmpfs /var/www/data/volatile tmpfs
nodev,nosuid,noexec,nodiratime,size=1M 0 0
tmpfs /var/ramlog tmpfs nodev,nosuid,noexec,nodiratime,size=25M 0 0

It seems Raspios has pretty decent defaults.

This is good because I will be reading files a * lot*. Probably 16 a second

PS I also managed to find out from the net how to set the PI Zeros USB
port to look like an ethernet adapter and service DHCP requests, so it
can be a web sever to a PC just by plugging it into the PC's USB port.
Great for setting up the wifi!
If anyone else wants to know, ask.
--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: ali...@comet.invalid (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 10:26 UTC

On a sunny day (Fri, 4 Aug 2023 09:57:30 +0100) it happened The Natural
Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uaiehq$170d6$6@dont-email.me>:

>On 04/08/2023 04:15, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Aug 2023 22:29:31 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> I dunno how fast an SSD with a USB interface would be compared with a
>>> SATA, but if I was using a pi for user level stuff, I'd want some kind
>>> of SSD in there with the SD card only there to boot the thing.
>>
>> sd cards are a lot cheaper. :-)
>
>But like a bicycle compared to a Ferrari, they are a lot slower, too
>SSD simply flies.
>
>>
>>> My impressions is that a Pi is about as fast as a 486 used to be. or
>>> maybe a bit more. Many people say the latest Pi is pentium 4 level or
>>> thereabouts.
>>
>> This is an rpi 4b, which is a quad core (1 thread per core) and 4GB ram.
>>
>> lscpu shows 108.0 BogoMIPS, while my desktop system with an AMD FX(tm)-4170
>> Quad-Core Processor from 2012 shows 8428.66 BoboMIPS.
>> Despite the low number of BogoMIPS, I'm still impressed by it overall.
>>
>> It's fine for running the few applications I use it for.
>>
>> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>
>Pi Zero W: BogoMIPS: 697.95
>My desktop - refurbed HP: BogoMIPS: 5399.81
>
>But it makes no sense - my old server which is nowher as fast show s
>more bogomips

My Pi4 8GB I am posting this from says:
raspberrypi: ~ # while [ 1 ] ; do cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep BogoMIPS ; sleep 1 ; done
BogoMIPS : 216.00
BogoMIPS : 324.00
BogoMIPS : 324.00
BogoMIPS : 324.00
BogoMIPS : 324.00
BogoMIPS : 144.00
BogoMIPS : 144.00
BogoMIPS : 144.00
BogoMIPS : 144.00
BogoMIPS : 180.00
BogoMIPS : 180.00
BogoMIPS : 180.00
BogoMIPS : 180.00
BogoMIPS : 198.00

raspberrypi: ~ # lscpu
Architecture: armv7l
Byte Order: Little Endian
CPU(s): 4
On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3
Thread(s) per core: 1
Core(s) per socket: 4
Socket(s): 1
Vendor ID: ARM
Model: 3
Model name: Cortex-A72
Stepping: r0p3
CPU max MHz: 1800.0000
CPU min MHz: 600.0000
BogoMIPS: 126.00

??
And my core i5 laptop says:
4788.51
runs an old Slackware version

So much for BogoMIPS
:-)

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 10:41 UTC

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 03:38:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Oddly enough my SSD drives seem to be lasting better than the spinning
> rust they replaced. The wear levelling in THOSE really works.
> So my tentative feeling at this point in time is that while /boot might
> be on the SD card, if I were to use a pi for serious R/W everything else
> would be an SSD mounted somehow at boot. I believe with later PIs you
> can boot the whole thing from USB/SSD or rust.
>
IIRC it used to be well known that SD cards (class 10 cards?) that were
sold for use in video cameras etc. had:
(a) large storage blocks and
(b) no wear levelling

In consequence these cards are not generally useful for use as computer
filing systems, being designed to hold large (MB to GB) data files that
would only be written to sequentially and would usually not be edited in
situ, just deleted in order to make room for recording another video. In
consequence only file level operations (record a video, copy or delete a
complete file) worked at an acceptable speed.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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 by: Chris Elvidge - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 10:43 UTC

On 04/08/2023 11:26, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 4 Aug 2023 09:57:30 +0100) it happened The Natural
> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uaiehq$170d6$6@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 04/08/2023 04:15, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Aug 2023 22:29:31 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> I dunno how fast an SSD with a USB interface would be compared with a
>>>> SATA, but if I was using a pi for user level stuff, I'd want some kind
>>>> of SSD in there with the SD card only there to boot the thing.
>>>
>>> sd cards are a lot cheaper. :-)
>>
>> But like a bicycle compared to a Ferrari, they are a lot slower, too
>> SSD simply flies.
>>
>>>
>>>> My impressions is that a Pi is about as fast as a 486 used to be. or
>>>> maybe a bit more. Many people say the latest Pi is pentium 4 level or
>>>> thereabouts.
>>>
>>> This is an rpi 4b, which is a quad core (1 thread per core) and 4GB ram.
>>>
>>> lscpu shows 108.0 BogoMIPS, while my desktop system with an AMD FX(tm)-4170
>>> Quad-Core Processor from 2012 shows 8428.66 BoboMIPS.
>>> Despite the low number of BogoMIPS, I'm still impressed by it overall.
>>>
>>> It's fine for running the few applications I use it for.
>>>
>>> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>>
>> Pi Zero W: BogoMIPS: 697.95
>> My desktop - refurbed HP: BogoMIPS: 5399.81
>>
>> But it makes no sense - my old server which is nowher as fast show s
>> more bogomips
>
> My Pi4 8GB I am posting this from says:
> raspberrypi: ~ # while [ 1 ] ; do cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep BogoMIPS ; sleep 1 ; done
> BogoMIPS : 216.00
> BogoMIPS : 324.00
> BogoMIPS : 324.00
> BogoMIPS : 324.00
> BogoMIPS : 324.00
> BogoMIPS : 144.00
> BogoMIPS : 144.00
> BogoMIPS : 144.00
> BogoMIPS : 144.00
> BogoMIPS : 180.00
> BogoMIPS : 180.00
> BogoMIPS : 180.00
> BogoMIPS : 180.00
> BogoMIPS : 198.00
>
> raspberrypi: ~ # lscpu
> Architecture: armv7l
> Byte Order: Little Endian
> CPU(s): 4
> On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3
> Thread(s) per core: 1
> Core(s) per socket: 4
> Socket(s): 1
> Vendor ID: ARM
> Model: 3
> Model name: Cortex-A72
> Stepping: r0p3
> CPU max MHz: 1800.0000
> CPU min MHz: 600.0000
> BogoMIPS: 126.00
>
>
> ??
> And my core i5 laptop says:
> 4788.51
> runs an old Slackware version
>
> So much for BogoMIPS
> :-)
>

Slackware used to do BogoMIPS at startup (perhaps still does) but then
went on to say measuring BogoMIPS was a waste of time.

--

Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT SELL LAND IN FLORIDA

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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From: chr...@mshome.net (Chris Elvidge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
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 by: Chris Elvidge - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 10:54 UTC

On 04/08/2023 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/08/2023 23:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 23:28:06 +0100
>> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@Proton.Me> wrote:
>>
>>> I guessed that the worry was that the journal was a smallish single
>>> file, used as a circular buffer (maybe 128MB). So, without wear
>>> levelling, the same few blocks would be getting hit all the time.
>>
>> Remember write amplification - flash storage uses very large blocks
>> 1MB or more so small writes involve copying most of a block, writing a
>> new
>> one with the changes and queing the old one to be wiped.
>>
> Indeed.
>
> Oddly enough my SSD drives seem to be lasting better than the spinning
> rust they replaced. The wear levelling in THOSE really works.
> So my tentative feeling at this point in time is that while /boot might
> be on the SD card, if I were to use a pi for serious R/W everything else
> would be an SSD mounted somehow at boot.

That's what I do

My cmdline.txt:

console=tty1 root=PARTUUID=72020302-c396-2148-9d13-caf4f68cd18c
rootfstype=ext4 fsck.repair=yes rootwait quiet splash
plymouth.ignore-serial-consoles net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=0
usbhid.mousepoll=0 dwc_otg.lpm_enable=0

The PARTUUID is that of half a 120Gb SSD (/dev/sda2). /boot is on a
250Mb SD card.

It was (seemed) easier than trying to get USB boot to work (RPi3B).

> I believe with later PIs you
> can boot the whole thing from USB/SSD or rust.

> For me that leads to a sort of tentative conclusions - if I want a busy
> server, or user desktop, I'd pick a late model Pi and USB boot it. If I
> want an embedded device, I'd pick an SD card and tune the OS not to use
> it, if possible.
>
> And for serious storage, the later OS supports SATA hats...
>
>
>
>

--

Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT SELL LAND IN FLORIDA

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 15:05 UTC

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 09:51:48 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> I am not sure it actually does. If you turn off 'last read' with 'noatime'
> Which you surely would if you cared enough

Oh that brings back a memory from a long time back. On a visit to
Altos I saw a machine that one of the engineers there was playing with - it
was a XENIX machine with four eight inch floppy drives as storage - the
labels stuck over the drives read (/ /usr /etc and /tmp) - He'd had to turn
of atime because it was wearing out the tracks holding the inodes.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 18:07 UTC

On Fri, 04 Aug 2023 06:26:42 -0400, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> So much for BogoMIPS

Agreed. BogoMIPS is useless for showing the cpu speed. It's much faster than
I expected, which allowed me to use it for much more than simple testing of
aarch64 installs, which is all I bought it for.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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 by: David W. Hodgins - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 18:37 UTC

On Fri, 04 Aug 2023 04:57:30 -0400, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> But like a bicycle compared to a Ferrari, they are a lot slower, too
> SSD simply flies.

Agreed. I use multiple ssd drives on my main system. The difference in speed
between a spinning rust drive and an ssd drive is well worth it. As I do
a lot of installs and other testing on that system, the speed is worth it.

I have as my main drive an OCZ-AGILITY4 240GB SSD drive that I've been using
since 2011.

I back it up regularly as I've been expecting it to fail anytime for years. :-)
smartctl shows ...
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0000 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 1
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0000 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 89199
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0000 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 489
232 Lifetime_Writes 0x0000 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 93035004612

The Reallocated_Sector_Ct has been at 1 since shortly after I started using it.
The spinning rust drive it replaced only lasted about 5 years.

For the rpi 4b, I'd be looking at an external enclosure connected via usb, so
it wouldn't see the speed of a sata or pcie ssd, but would be a lot faster
than the sd card, but for what I use it for, not worth the price.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 00:17 UTC

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 04:15, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>> lscpu shows 108.0 BogoMIPS, while my desktop system with an AMD FX(tm)-4170
>> Quad-Core Processor from 2012 shows 8428.66 BoboMIPS.
>> Despite the low number of BogoMIPS, I'm still impressed by it overall.
>>
>> It's fine for running the few applications I use it for.
>
> Pi Zero W: BogoMIPS: 697.95
> My desktop - refurbed HP: BogoMIPS: 5399.81
>
> But it makes no sense - my old server which is nowher as fast show s
> more bogomips

BogoMIPS on ARM is known to show incorrect results. The CPU tricks
the routine that Linux uses to calculate it, so at least it's
meaningless compared to the number given on architectures like x86,
or actual Million Instructions Per Second. Somehow the Linux
developers haven't been able to fix this.

"In 2012, ARM contributed a new udelay implementation allowing the
system timer built into many ARMv7 CPUs to be used instead of a
busy-wait loop. This implementation was released in Version 3.6 of
the Linux kernel. Timer-based delays are more robust on systems that
use frequency scaling to dynamically adjust the processor's speed at
runtime, as loops_per_jiffies values may not necessarily scale
linearly. Also, since the timer frequency is known in advance, no
calibration is needed at boot time.

One side effect of this change is that the BogoMIPS value will reflect
the timer frequency, not the CPU's core frequency. Typically the
timer frequency is much lower than the processor's maximum frequency,
and some users may be surprised to see an unusually low BogoMIPS value
when comparing against systems that use traditional busy-wait loops."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BogoMips

The core frequency on different models isn't directly correlated to
the CPU's clock frequency on ARM (it gets multiplied), so it's pretty
much meaningless.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 00:27 UTC

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> My impressions is that a Pi is about as fast as a 486 used to be.

Perhaps it might seem as fast as a 486 running Linux from the mid
90s would be. In practice even the Pi Zero should be able to emulate
that 486 and run the same software at a usable speed. Linux and all
the software bolted onto it has been getting ever slower over the
years, but it can seem much faster on the Pi Zero when running more
minimal distros than RPi OS (OpenWrt, Tiny Core).

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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 by: 23k.304 - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 04:20 UTC

On 8/4/23 4:58 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 07:03, 23k.304 wrote:
>> Still have the old IBM Technical Reference Manual.
>>    All that stuff was meticulously documented.
>
> I gave that away sometime in the late 80s.

I consider it to be a "valuable artifact" :-)

At minimum, it showed how serious and deep they'd
go with the early PCs. That's when programming was
still painfully "real". Mostly you could not buy
what you needed - so you had to make it yourself.

And I *did* find many uses for that info.

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

<uakvca$1lq8q$7@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=6766&group=comp.sys.raspberry-pi#6766

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 08:56:58 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 07:56 UTC

On 04/08/2023 11:54, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/08/2023 23:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 23:28:06 +0100
>>> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@Proton.Me> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guessed that the worry was that the journal was a smallish single
>>>> file, used as a circular buffer (maybe 128MB). So, without wear
>>>> levelling, the same few blocks would be getting hit all the time.
>>>
>>>     Remember write amplification - flash storage uses very large blocks
>>> 1MB or more so small writes involve copying most of a block, writing
>>> a new
>>> one with the changes and queing the old one to be wiped.
>>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> Oddly enough my SSD drives seem to be lasting better than the spinning
>> rust they replaced. The wear levelling in THOSE really works.
>> So my tentative feeling at this point in time is that while /boot
>> might be on the SD card, if I were to use a pi for serious R/W
>> everything else would be an SSD mounted somehow at boot.
>
> That's what I do
>
> My cmdline.txt:
>
> console=tty1 root=PARTUUID=72020302-c396-2148-9d13-caf4f68cd18c
> rootfstype=ext4 fsck.repair=yes rootwait quiet splash
> plymouth.ignore-serial-consoles net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=0
> usbhid.mousepoll=0 dwc_otg.lpm_enable=0
>
> The PARTUUID is that of half a 120Gb SSD (/dev/sda2). /boot is on a
> 250Mb SD card.
>
That seems a logical best solution for an early Pi. The later ones will
do USB boot, I think.

(where on earth did you get a 250MB SD card: I cant find anything much
less than gigabytes these days)

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK

<uakvl4$1lq8q$8@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: move /var/log to a RAMDISK
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:01:40 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 08:01 UTC

On 05/08/2023 05:20, 23k.304 wrote:
> On 8/4/23 4:58 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 04/08/2023 07:03, 23k.304 wrote:
>>> Still have the old IBM Technical Reference Manual.
>>>    All that stuff was meticulously documented.
>>
>> I gave that away sometime in the late 80s.
>
>   I consider it to be a "valuable artifact" :-)
>
>   At minimum, it showed how serious and deep they'd
>   go with the early PCs. That's when programming was
>   still painfully "real". Mostly you could not buy
>   what you needed - so you had to make it yourself.
>
>   And I *did* find many uses for that info.
Oh, so did I. I was assembly programming 8086s then - writing BIOS
extensions or complete BIOSES for them,

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUVZbBBHrI4

Or interfacing with special hardware people had built that needed
drivers written.
But that line of business dried up, so I ended up doing yet another
career shift into running IT businesses.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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