I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?

(Also posted in Win 10 forum)

On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>
> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
use NirSoft MultiMonitor in a batch and power monitors off
<https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/multi_monitor_tool.html>

Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of
> bed to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?

I presume you set it to sleep in Windows? If so, Windows will stop
the video signal to the monitor, not power it off. And if you've
set your monitor to auto-source-select, then it will wake up every
now and then to probe if there's a signal on any of the inputs.

-p

On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>
> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>

Does the backup software have a GUI ?
Maybe if a GUI opens on the screen, that
will wake DWM.

If I leave the machine running in S0/S1,
then the screen generally stays black in S1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACPI

S0 The computer is running and the CPU executes instructions.
S1 (I call this Standby, and that makes the monitor screen black.
The machine still seems to be perfectly capable of background tasks.)
S2 (Doesn't really exist. More likely to be a C state, like C6 or C12.
There are a number of states that cannot be enumerated.)

S3 Suspend to RAM otherwise known as Sleep.
S4 Hibernation.
S5 Soft off. +5V still running. Front power button works.

Paul

On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>
> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)

I suppose you want it to stay off.

Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To no form of religion is woman indebted for one impulse of freedom..."
[Susan B. Anthony]

Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> wrote:

>Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of
> > bed to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>
>I presume you set it to sleep in Windows? If so, Windows will stop
>the video signal to the monitor, not power it off. And if you've
>set your monitor to auto-source-select, then it will wake up every
>now and then to probe if there's a signal on any of the inputs.
>
>-p

Thanks, but I'm unclear about the terms 'sleep' and 'off'. As you see I
currently believe Win 10 should be turning my display 'off' (black
screen) if I don't use the keyboard or mouse for 10 minutes. Is that
what you are calling 'sleep'?

I cannot see any option either in Win 10 Settings or my Dell's menus
called 'auto-source-select'. Its input is set to 'mDP'.

Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:

>On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>
>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>use NirSoft MultiMonitor in a batch and power monitors off
><https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/multi_monitor_tool.html>

Thanks. I'll follow up on that if it becomes clear that Win 10 isn't
doing what I thought it says on the tin.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>
>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>

Thanks.

>Does the backup software have a GUI ?
Yes. It's called SecondCopy and runs at scheduled times. Actually in the
many years I've used it I don't think I've been in front of the PC's
black screen when a scheduled backup starts. I'll have to test that.

>Maybe if a GUI opens on the screen, that
>will wake DWM.
>
>If I leave the machine running in S0/S1,
>then the screen generally stays black in S1.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACPI
>
> S0 The computer is running and the CPU executes instructions.
> S1 (I call this Standby, and that makes the monitor screen black.
> The machine still seems to be perfectly capable of background tasks.)
> S2 (Doesn't really exist. More likely to be a C state, like C6 or C12.
> There are a number of states that cannot be enumerated.)
>
> S3 Suspend to RAM otherwise known as Sleep.
> S4 Hibernation.
> S5 Soft off. +5V still running. Front power button works.

Most of the article is over my head.Is ACPI it a separate app and
overrides Win10 settings?

>
> Paul

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

>On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>
>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>
>I suppose you want it to stay off.
>
>Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
>the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.

I was wondering how long before someone asked that!

It occurred to me soon after posting that I should have mentioned why I
am not using that most obvious approach. (Which I assume DOES keep the
monitor black until I start again in the morning. So far no evidence to
the contrary. Even though I know it doesn't cut off all mains power;
just 75W down t 5W I think.)

This was going to be another imminent post here and in the Win 10 forum.
I may still do the latter.

But, briefly: if I switch the Dell off (push button bottom right
corner), when I switch back on the next morning my screen layout is
screwed up. All my carefully organised windows (folders and apps) are
resized smaller vertically. Looks like a factor of 0.63. Have yet to
fathom it, but must be some kind of aspect ratio issue. The Dell is 1920
x 1200 an AR of 1.6, and that's what it's set to (as recommended). So
typically a 5-15 windows need individually fixing - PITA.

It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.

Tonight I'm going to use the TOM setting: towel over monitor ;-)

On 23/01/2023 20:45, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of
>>> bed to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>
>> I presume you set it to sleep in Windows? If so, Windows will stop
>> the video signal to the monitor, not power it off. And if you've
>> set your monitor to auto-source-select, then it will wake up every
>> now and then to probe if there's a signal on any of the inputs.
>>
>> -p
>
> Thanks, but I'm unclear about the terms 'sleep' and 'off'. As you see I
> currently believe Win 10 should be turning my display 'off' (black
> screen) if I don't use the keyboard or mouse for 10 minutes. Is that
> what you are calling 'sleep'?

Monitors have the ability to go into very low power consumption mode
after the video signal is removed. It is not off, but then even the
"off" button of a monitor probably won't turn the mains power off
completely: normally it turns off the backlight and the display
circuitry but leaves the PSU consuming a nominal amount of power so the
display will wake up again as soon as a video signal is reapplied.

My PC and monitor are on an energy-monitoring mains socket and the
combined power consumption when both are asleep is about 2.5 W. That
reminds me: I'll see how much less power is used when the monitor is
unplugged from the mains. If it wasn't a difficult job to reach the
mains lead round the back of the monitor, or the mains plug in the
socket-extender on the floor, I'd unplug the monitor from the mains at
night. The PC needs to remain powered-on (although is sleep mode)
because it takes about 15 minutes from cold start until all the
background processes (Skype, Dropbox) have restarted and the PC responds
at normal speed rather than taking a minute or so to start Firefox etc.

On 23/01/2023 21:20, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
> In your case, if the monitor has its own power button the you can turn
> it off using that and you won't have to come here and ask such questions.

It is unlikely that the power switch on a modern monitor will turn it
off (in the sense of no power consumed at all). Instead it will probably
put the monitor into power-saving sleep mode in the same way that
no-signal will do after a timeout.

Tomorrow I'll measure the power consumption of my monitor in no-signal
mode and again in turn-off-at-the-power-button mode. I bet they'll be
the same.

On 1/23/2023 4:22 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>
>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>
>> I suppose you want it to stay off.
>>
>> Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
>> the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.
>
> I was wondering how long before someone asked that!
>
> It occurred to me soon after posting that I should have mentioned why I
> am not using that most obvious approach. (Which I assume DOES keep the
> monitor black until I start again in the morning. So far no evidence to
> the contrary. Even though I know it doesn't cut off all mains power;
> just 75W down t 5W I think.)
>
> This was going to be another imminent post here and in the Win 10 forum.
> I may still do the latter.
>
> But, briefly: if I switch the Dell off (push button bottom right
> corner), when I switch back on the next morning my screen layout is
> screwed up. All my carefully organised windows (folders and apps) are
> resized smaller vertically. Looks like a factor of 0.63. Have yet to
> fathom it, but must be some kind of aspect ratio issue. The Dell is 1920
> x 1200 an AR of 1.6, and that's what it's set to (as recommended). So
> typically a 5-15 windows need individually fixing - PITA.
>
> It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
> Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.
>
> Tonight I'm going to use the TOM setting: towel over monitor ;-)
>

You can overheat a monitor, if you throw a towel over the vents.

*******

The eventvwr procedure here may work.

https://www.ghacks.net/2013/12/31/find-pc-wakes-stop/

"While still on the command line, type eventvwr.msc to launch the Windows Event Viewer.

Select Windows Logs > System from the menu in the sidebar.
Once the log is displayed, select Filter Current Log from the Actions menu.
A new window opens up that you use to customize what is displayed in the selected event log.

Locate Event sources there and select Power-Troubleshooter
from the context menu.

The list is sorted alphabetically, and you should not have any issues
finding the filter item in the menu.

All entries are listed by level, date and time, and Event ID.

Open the entries closed in date and time to the waking of the PC and
check for the Wake Source listing there. It may reveal what woke the computer.
"

While the example shows "Wake Source: Unknown", for a
scheduled tasks wake event, some more detail should be
there than for that example.

Paul

On 23/01/2023 21:22, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>
>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>
>> I suppose you want it to stay off.
>>
>> Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
>> the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.
>
> I was wondering how long before someone asked that!
>
> It occurred to me soon after posting that I should have mentioned why I
> am not using that most obvious approach. (Which I assume DOES keep the
> monitor black until I start again in the morning. So far no evidence to
> the contrary. Even though I know it doesn't cut off all mains power;
> just 75W down t 5W I think.)
>
> This was going to be another imminent post here and in the Win 10 forum.
> I may still do the latter.
>
> But, briefly: if I switch the Dell off (push button bottom right
> corner), when I switch back on the next morning my screen layout is
> screwed up. All my carefully organised windows (folders and apps) are
> resized smaller vertically. Looks like a factor of 0.63. Have yet to
> fathom it, but must be some kind of aspect ratio issue. The Dell is 1920
> x 1200 an AR of 1.6, and that's what it's set to (as recommended). So
> typically a 5-15 windows need individually fixing - PITA.
>
> It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
> Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.

You could always turn off the monitor at the mains, and leave the PC in
sleep mode. Like you, I rarely shutdown my PC because it takes about 15
minutes after switching back on before it responds as normal: booting to
the point where the desktop is displayed takes just under 10 minutes,
and then there's another 5 mins for background apps like Skype and
Dropbox to start fully, and until then any manually-started app (email
program, Firefox, etc) takes ages and ages to start. So normally I put
it into sleep mode at night (system state saved to memory; for some
reason my PC doesn't offer hibernate which saves the state to disk).
That reduces the PC-and-monitor combined figure from about 100 W down to
about 2.5 W. Every kWhr saved is money saved, at current electricity prices.

> Tonight I'm going to use the TOM setting: towel over monitor ;-)

Never underestimate low-tech solutions like that ;-) Been there done that.

On 1/23/2023 3:54 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>
>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>> Does the backup software have a GUI ?
> Yes. It's called SecondCopy and runs at scheduled times. Actually in the
> many years I've used it I don't think I've been in front of the PC's
> black screen when a scheduled backup starts. I'll have to test that.
>
>> Maybe if a GUI opens on the screen, that
>> will wake DWM.
>>
>> If I leave the machine running in S0/S1,
>> then the screen generally stays black in S1.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACPI
>>
>> S0 The computer is running and the CPU executes instructions.
>> S1 (I call this Standby, and that makes the monitor screen black.
>> The machine still seems to be perfectly capable of background tasks.)
>> S2 (Doesn't really exist. More likely to be a C state, like C6 or C12.
>> There are a number of states that cannot be enumerated.)
>>
>> S3 Suspend to RAM otherwise known as Sleep.
>> S4 Hibernation.
>> S5 Soft off. +5V still running. Front power button works.
>
> Most of the article is over my head.Is ACPI it a separate app and
> overrides Win10 settings?

The machine has power management. This is intended to save power
as a function of need.

The original version of power management was APM. The BIOS will
have some APM settings (these would allow an older OS to run).
An example of how crude APM was, is "it is now safe to turn
off this PC" message. The machine could not even do a soft-off
on its own.

ACPI on the other hand, supports sleep and hibernate and soft-off.
The machine has procedures to recover from these states, and move
to the fully-running state.

Paul

On 1/23/2023 3:47 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>
>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>> use NirSoft MultiMonitor in a batch and power monitors off
>> <https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/multi_monitor_tool.html>
>
> Thanks. I'll follow up on that if it becomes clear that Win 10 isn't
> doing what I thought it says on the tin.

I use the NirSoft approach in my unattended overnight batch to shut of
the monitors (one Dell and one AOC) at an appropriate time when the
batch is well under way. I use their power switches to turn on in the AM
with no effect on the desktop layout.

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 23/01/2023 21:20, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>> In your case, if the monitor has its own power button the you can turn
>> it off using that and you won't have to come here and ask such questions.
>
>It is unlikely that the power switch on a modern monitor will turn it
>off (in the sense of no power consumed at all). Instead it will probably
>put the monitor into power-saving sleep mode in the same way that
>no-signal will do after a timeout.
>
>Tomorrow I'll measure the power consumption of my monitor in no-signal
>mode and again in turn-off-at-the-power-button mode. I bet they'll be
>the same.

NY:
The Dell's 'off' consumption is stated as 0.5W in the user guide.

I need to fix the layout problem, presumably a Win 10 AR issue, before
I can resume use of the Dell U2415's Off button. Worse, the monitor has
now developed a worse problem.
https://www.dell.com/community/Monitors/DDM-how-to-stop-layout-interference/td-p/6178980/page/3

Copied here for convenience:
--------------------
A serious problem has arisen during the course of trying to resolve the
issue with DDM that I've also posted about this morning.

When I switch off the monitor, wait a while, and switch back on again I
get the familiar message in the middle of an otherwise bal ck screen
showing that mDP is the input option. But when that disappears -
NOTHING. That's consistent every time and whatever option I choose in
the OSD for DP 1.2.

I have to pull and replace the monitor plug to get access again to my
Win10 PC so would urgently appreciate help please.

P.S. I have uninstalled DDM, if that's relevant.
--------------------

'Good Guy':
I didn't/don't see a post from you in the thread. I covered the point
you raise in my reply to Mark, time stamped 23/1/23 21:22.

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 23/01/2023 21:22, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>>
>>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>>
>>> I suppose you want it to stay off.
>>>
>>> Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
>>> the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.
>>
>> I was wondering how long before someone asked that!
>>
>> It occurred to me soon after posting that I should have mentioned why I
>> am not using that most obvious approach. (Which I assume DOES keep the
>> monitor black until I start again in the morning. So far no evidence to
>> the contrary. Even though I know it doesn't cut off all mains power;
>> just 75W down t 5W I think.)
>>
>> This was going to be another imminent post here and in the Win 10 forum.
>> I may still do the latter.
>>
>> But, briefly: if I switch the Dell off (push button bottom right
>> corner), when I switch back on the next morning my screen layout is
>> screwed up. All my carefully organised windows (folders and apps) are
>> resized smaller vertically. Looks like a factor of 0.63. Have yet to
>> fathom it, but must be some kind of aspect ratio issue. The Dell is 1920
>> x 1200 an AR of 1.6, and that's what it's set to (as recommended). So
>> typically a 5-15 windows need individually fixing - PITA.
>>
>> It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
>> Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.
>
>You could always turn off the monitor at the mains, and leave the PC in
>sleep mode.

Yes, I was considering that. Because of the difficulty of pulling its
plug I might have gone as far a cutting the cable and added an inline
on/off switch. However, things got worse, as described in my other reply
to you. Making that simple approach impractical for now.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 1/23/2023 4:22 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>>
>>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>>
>>> I suppose you want it to stay off.
>>>
>>> Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
>>> the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.
>>
>> I was wondering how long before someone asked that!
>>
>> It occurred to me soon after posting that I should have mentioned why I
>> am not using that most obvious approach. (Which I assume DOES keep the
>> monitor black until I start again in the morning. So far no evidence to
>> the contrary. Even though I know it doesn't cut off all mains power;
>> just 75W down t 5W I think.)
>>
>> This was going to be another imminent post here and in the Win 10 forum.
>> I may still do the latter.
>>
>> But, briefly: if I switch the Dell off (push button bottom right
>> corner), when I switch back on the next morning my screen layout is
>> screwed up. All my carefully organised windows (folders and apps) are
>> resized smaller vertically. Looks like a factor of 0.63. Have yet to
>> fathom it, but must be some kind of aspect ratio issue. The Dell is 1920
>> x 1200 an AR of 1.6, and that's what it's set to (as recommended). So
>> typically a 5-15 windows need individually fixing - PITA.
>>
>> It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
>> Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.
>>
>> Tonight I'm going to use the TOM setting: towel over monitor ;-)
>>
>
>You can overheat a monitor, if you throw a towel over the vents.
>
>*******
>
>The eventvwr procedure here may work.
>
>https://www.ghacks.net/2013/12/31/find-pc-wakes-stop/
>
> "While still on the command line, type eventvwr.msc to launch the Windows Event Viewer.
>
> Select Windows Logs > System from the menu in the sidebar.
> Once the log is displayed, select Filter Current Log from the Actions menu.
> A new window opens up that you use to customize what is displayed in the selected event log.
>
> Locate Event sources there and select Power-Troubleshooter
> from the context menu.
>
> The list is sorted alphabetically, and you should not have any issues
> finding the filter item in the menu.
>
> All entries are listed by level, date and time, and Event ID.
>
> Open the entries closed in date and time to the waking of the PC and
> check for the Wake Source listing there. It may reveal what woke the computer.
> "
>
>While the example shows "Wake Source: Unknown", for a
>scheduled tasks wake event, some more detail should be
>there than for that example.
>
> Paul

Got zero 'wakes' from that. I'll run it again after the next overnight
run.

Last wake
C:\WINDOWS\system32>powercfg lastwake
Wake History Count - 0

Filtered: Log: Power-Iroubleshooter. Number of events: 0

I was pointed to this in the Win 10 forum
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/63136-see-wake-source-windows-10-a.html

and tested all the options.

SUMMARY
Command, Devices (= lines) listed
wake_armed, 6
wake_from_any, 60
wake_from_S1_supported, 46
wake_from_S2_supported, 46
wake_from_S3_supported, 60

Initial thoughts/reactions/questions
------------------------------------
#1 The sheer numbers of 'things' listed as 'wake up' candidates amazes
me. And definitely confirms that the only way to ensure my monitor
doesn't come on overnight is to switch it off! Or a screen saver of a
very dark image?

#2 I have one mouse, one keyboard. Why so many 'hits'?

#3 I'd expect successive options to show lower numbers, corresponding to
sleep level. But S2 = S1 and S3 is significantly greater than both.

#4 More generally: don't know how to interpret or use the info. For
instance, can my Logitech webcam really switch on overnight, or cause my
monitor to do so?

#5 What are these 'HID-compliant vendor-defined device' entries?

#6 What are the entries like: 'Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset
Family PCI Root Port #17 - A167'

#7 Is it impossible for such potentially valuable tools to use more
meaningful names, understandable by most end-users, not just the
'techie' subset? For example I have a 10-USB-port power hub with a
name...

Terry
DETAILED RESULTS
----------------
C:\WINDOWS\system32>powercfg -devicequery wake_armed
HID-compliant mouse
HID Keyboard Device
HID-compliant mouse (001)
Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I219-V
HID-compliant mouse (003)
HID Keyboard Device (002)
(6 devices)

C:\WINDOWS\system32>powercfg -devicequery wake_from_any
HID-compliant mouse
Seagate Expansion Desk SCSI Disk Device
HID Keyboard Device
Generic USB Hub
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub
WD My Book 1140 USB Device
WD 10EAVS External USB Device
HID-compliant vendor-defined device
Standard NVM Express Controller
USB Input Device (001)
HID-compliant consumer control device
HID-compliant mouse (001)
USB Input Device (002)
USB Composite Device (001)
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub (001)
Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Root Port #17 - A167
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub (002)
USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)
Communications Port (COM1)
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (001)
USB Input Device (003)
USB Input Device (004)
HID-compliant system controller
USB Composite Device (002)
WD SES Device
HID-compliant consumer control device (001)
Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.0 (Microsoft)
Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I219-V
Generic USB Hub (001)
Generic USB Hub (002)
HID-compliant mouse (003)
USB Mass Storage Device (002)
Webcam C170
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (002)
USB Input Device (005)
HID-compliant device
Webcam C170 (001)
ASMedia USB3.1 eXtensible Host Controller
USB Mass Storage Device (004)
USB Composite Device (003)
High Definition Audio Controller
USB Attached SCSI (UAS) Mass Storage Device
HID-compliant consumer control device (002)
ASMedia USB Root Hub
NVMe Samsung SSD 950
Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #1
- A110
WD Elements 25A1 USB Device
Intel(R) Display Audio
AKG Perception 120 USB
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (003)
USB Input Device (006)
Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #9
- A118
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub (003)
USB Composite Device (004)
USB Mass Storage Device (006)
HID Keyboard Device (002)
Generic USB Hub (003)
Realtek High Definition Audio
HID-compliant system controller (001)
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (004)
(60 devices)

C:\WINDOWS\system32>

====================
SORTED ABOVE

AKG Perception 120 USB
ASMedia USB Root Hub
ASMedia USB3.1 eXtensible Host Controller
Communications Port (COM1)
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub (001)
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub (002)
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub (003)
Generic USB Hub
Generic USB Hub (001)
Generic USB Hub (002)
Generic USB Hub (003)
HID Keyboard Device
HID Keyboard Device (002)
HID-compliant consumer control device
HID-compliant consumer control device (001)
HID-compliant consumer control device (002)
HID-compliant device
HID-compliant mouse
HID-compliant mouse (001)
HID-compliant mouse (003)
HID-compliant system controller
HID-compliant system controller (001)
HID-compliant vendor-defined device
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (001)
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (002)
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (003)
HID-compliant vendor-defined device (004)
High Definition Audio Controller
Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Root Port #17 - A167
Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #1
- A110
Intel(R) 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #9
- A118
Intel(R) Display Audio
Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I219-V
Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.0 (Microsoft)
NVMe Samsung SSD 950
Realtek High Definition Audio
Seagate Expansion Desk SCSI Disk Device
Standard NVM Express Controller
USB Attached SCSI (UAS) Mass Storage Device
USB Composite Device (001)
USB Composite Device (002)
USB Composite Device (003)
USB Composite Device (004)
USB Input Device (001)
USB Input Device (002)
USB Input Device (003)
USB Input Device (004)
USB Input Device (005)
USB Input Device (006)
USB Mass Storage Device (002)
USB Mass Storage Device (004)
USB Mass Storage Device (006)
USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)
WD 10EAVS External USB Device
WD Elements 25A1 USB Device
WD My Book 1140 USB Device
WD SES Device
Webcam C170
Webcam C170 (001)
(60 devices)

On 2023-01-23 21:45, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of
>>> bed to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>
>> I presume you set it to sleep in Windows? If so, Windows will stop
>> the video signal to the monitor, not power it off. And if you've
>> set your monitor to auto-source-select, then it will wake up every
>> now and then to probe if there's a signal on any of the inputs.
>>
>> -p
>
> Thanks, but I'm unclear about the terms 'sleep' and 'off'. As you see I
> currently believe Win 10 should be turning my display 'off' (black
> screen) if I don't use the keyboard or mouse for 10 minutes. Is that
> what you are calling 'sleep'?

Turning the screen black is turning the screen black.
Off is off, no power.

Monitors use to have several intermediate levels, that unpower sections
of the circuitry. Unpowering the backlight is a big power saving, but
going back on does not happen instantly.

"sleep" will be one of those intermediate levels. Exact definition
depends on the exact monitor.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-01-23 21:54, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On 1/23/2023 9:13 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:

....

>> Maybe if a GUI opens on the screen, that
>> will wake DWM.
>>
>> If I leave the machine running in S0/S1,
>> then the screen generally stays black in S1.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACPI
>>
>> S0 The computer is running and the CPU executes instructions.
>> S1 (I call this Standby, and that makes the monitor screen black.
>> The machine still seems to be perfectly capable of background tasks.)
>> S2 (Doesn't really exist. More likely to be a C state, like C6 or C12.
>> There are a number of states that cannot be enumerated.)
>>
>> S3 Suspend to RAM otherwise known as Sleep.
>> S4 Hibernation.
>> S5 Soft off. +5V still running. Front power button works.
>
> Most of the article is over my head.Is ACPI it a separate app and
> overrides Win10 settings?
ACPI is a standard.

From the link:

«Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) is an open standard
that operating systems can use to discover and configure computer
hardware components, to perform power management (e.g. putting unused
hardware components to sleep), auto configuration (e.g. Plug and Play
and hot swapping), and status monitoring. First released in December
1996, ACPI aims to replace Advanced Power Management (APM), the
MultiProcessor Specification, and the Plug and Play BIOS (PnP)
Specification.[1]»

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-01-24 01:24, Paul wrote:
> On 1/23/2023 4:22 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:

....

>> It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
>> Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.
>>
>> Tonight I'm going to use the TOM setting: towel over monitor ;-)
>>
>
> You can overheat a monitor, if you throw a towel over the vents.

I killed a monitor doing something similar (it was unplugged).

I had spread a thin plastic sheet to protect the monitor from dust and
paint going on nearby. Later, accidentally someone got stuck with the
sheet and the monitor fell. Not to the floor, I reacted fast and put my
leg on its way, so it was only half a meter drop. But the power supply
died. An LG.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:54:24 +0000, Terry Pinnell
<me@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>On 23/01/2023 21:22, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/23/23 08:13, Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>>>> I have my Dell U2415 24" monitor set to sleep after 10 minutes of
>>>>> non-use, and that seems to work OK. However in the small hours I've
>>>>> noticed recently that the screen is on. I haven't so far got out of bed
>>>>> to investigate, but wonder if it's because I have various backups
>>>>> running overnight? If not, any other likely causes?
>>>>>
>>>>> (Also posted in Win 10 forum)
>>>>
>>>> I suppose you want it to stay off.
>>>>
>>>> Then you could turn it off physically (switch on the monitor, or switch
>>>> the power) rather than expecting the computer to do it.
>>>
>>> I was wondering how long before someone asked that!
>>>
>>> It occurred to me soon after posting that I should have mentioned why I
>>> am not using that most obvious approach. (Which I assume DOES keep the
>>> monitor black until I start again in the morning. So far no evidence to
>>> the contrary. Even though I know it doesn't cut off all mains power;
>>> just 75W down t 5W I think.)
>>>
>>> This was going to be another imminent post here and in the Win 10 forum.
>>> I may still do the latter.
>>>
>>> But, briefly: if I switch the Dell off (push button bottom right
>>> corner), when I switch back on the next morning my screen layout is
>>> screwed up. All my carefully organised windows (folders and apps) are
>>> resized smaller vertically. Looks like a factor of 0.63. Have yet to
>>> fathom it, but must be some kind of aspect ratio issue. The Dell is 1920
>>> x 1200 an AR of 1.6, and that's what it's set to (as recommended). So
>>> typically a 5-15 windows need individually fixing - PITA.
>>>
>>> It's taken me a while to conclude that it's not down to Dell's Window
>>> Manager. That's uninstalled but the start-up layout change persists.
>>
>>You could always turn off the monitor at the mains, and leave the PC in
>>sleep mode.
>
>Yes, I was considering that. Because of the difficulty of pulling its
>plug I might have gone as far a cutting the cable and added an inline
>on/off switch. However, things got worse, as described in my other reply
>to you. Making that simple approach impractical for now.

If it's impractical for now, you might not want to do it until
sometime in the future, but an alternative to cutting the cable and
adding an inline on/off switch is plugging it into a cheap surge
protector (really nothing more than a fancy extension cord) with a
switch. That would easily give you an inline switch.

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>>Yes, I was considering that. Because of the difficulty of pulling its
>>plug I might have gone as far a cutting the cable and added an inline
>>on/off switch. However, things got worse, as described in my other reply
>>to you. Making that simple approach impractical for now.
>
>
>If it's impractical for now, you might not want to do it until
>sometime in the future, but an alternative to cutting the cable and
>adding an inline on/off switch is plugging it into a cheap surge
>protector (really nothing more than a fancy extension cord) with a
>switch. That would easily give you an inline switch.

Thanks Ken, but if you could see how many plugs I have under and around
my desk... !

Terry Pinnell wrote:

> I'm unclear about the terms 'sleep' and 'off'.

windows (I'm looking at a win11 machine right now) talks about power
settings turning the screen "off", but it doesn't actually mean that, it
just means the computer sends the screen into a low power "sleep" mode,
the computer can wake the monitor back up ...

On 1/24/2023 9:45 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 23/01/2023 21:20, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>> In your case, if the monitor has its own power button the you can turn
>>> it off using that and you won't have to come here and ask such questions.
>>
>> It is unlikely that the power switch on a modern monitor will turn it
>> off (in the sense of no power consumed at all). Instead it will probably
>> put the monitor into power-saving sleep mode in the same way that
>> no-signal will do after a timeout.
>>
>> Tomorrow I'll measure the power consumption of my monitor in no-signal
>> mode and again in turn-off-at-the-power-button mode. I bet they'll be
>> the same.
>
> NY:
> The Dell's 'off' consumption is stated as 0.5W in the user guide.
>
> I need to fix the layout problem, presumably a Win 10 AR issue, before
> I can resume use of the Dell U2415's Off button. Worse, the monitor has
> now developed a worse problem.
> https://www.dell.com/community/Monitors/DDM-how-to-stop-layout-interference/td-p/6178980/page/3
>
> Copied here for convenience:
> --------------------
> A serious problem has arisen during the course of trying to resolve the
> issue with DDM that I've also posted about this morning.
>
> When I switch off the monitor, wait a while, and switch back on again I
> get the familiar message in the middle of an otherwise bal ck screen
> showing that mDP is the input option. But when that disappears -
> NOTHING. That's consistent every time and whatever option I choose in
> the OSD for DP 1.2.
>
> I have to pull and replace the monitor plug to get access again to my
> Win10 PC so would urgently appreciate help please.
>
> P.S. I have uninstalled DDM, if that's relevant.
> --------------------

What was relevant for me, on cold boots, was that the
DP would not light the monitor, maybe one in five times.
If, however, I switched the cable to HDMI, it lights
up every time. It's not a monitor problem, it's a
video card/video driver problem. It gives all the
appearance of the impedance detection subsystem being
a complete fail (since it sends the signal to the HDMI cable,
when no monitor is connected, and that should not happen).

Conclusion ? NVidia hates DP ? Dunno.

All I know is, I have a solution for my problem.
And that's to not rely on DP as a primary or only monitor hookup.

The two monitors here (one per computer), one on a 1050Ti,
the other on a GTX 1080, are running on HDMI.

An NVidia card, can look like this:

HDMI \___ Traditional dual head connectors
DVI /
DP \
DP \___ Fill faceplate with more of these, and on
DP / high end cards support 2x3 monitor matrix mode.
DP / That is two 1x3 rows of monitors.

The crossbar support "2 of 6", where the 2 can be a
very wide 1x3 slice read out from graphics memory and
spewed across the three monitors.

The video card can drive single monitors, independently.
Up to the dual head limit.

To surpass the dual head limit, the video card accepts
a set of identical monitors (each has same resolution)
and makes a "wide set" of monitors. The wide set of monitors
is driven by one head. I could for example, have one 1x3
matrix of monitors, all 1080 pixels high, plus a fourth
monitor sitting on the second head. The second monitor
can be placed on any side of the 1x3 matrix, using the
display control panel. This means the task bar could end
up on the fourth monitor, it could end up on the 1x3 monitors,
it could end up across *all* the monitors (if the fourth monitor
is on the same baseline in the display setup panel.

Paul